Predators in the Swinger Lifestyle: Red Flags Every Couple Must Know

0:07 All right, y'all. Before we dive in, a quick heads-up This show is raw, real, and definitely not rated PG. We're talking about adult themes, sexual content, and the kinda stuff you probably don't want blasting through your speakers at work or around your kids. So grab some headphones, pour your drink of choice, and get comfy. Oh, and just so we're clear, we are not licensed therapists, counselors, or sex couches. Sex coaches. Sex coaches. Not sex couches. We're just a couple of people sharing our lives, experiences, and sexy adventures in ethical non-monogamy.

0:47 So with that, pull up a chair and enjoy the show. Hello, and welcome to another episode of Beyond Monogamy. I'm Adam. And I'm Pris. And goodness gracious, is that the way that my arms look? I'm so white. You are very white. I gotta get some, I gotta get some light. You are very white. See, that's the problem with doing a video podcast as well as an audio podcast. Nobody knows what I look like in an audio podcast, but on a video podcast they can see my translucent arms. Isn't that something? Jesus. I, honestly- That's why I wear sweaters … I know. Look it. That's why I wear sweaters. Look at that. I'm… It's like, uh, Michael Jackson before and after. Wow. That's incredible. Anyways, uh- Wait. Am I on Michael Jackson? You're the pre, you're the pre. I'm the pre? Okay. And I'm the post. Thanks. Yeah.

1:28 Hey. Thanks for that. I had nothing else to compare it to. Anyways, uh, thank you guys for joining us for another episode. We're talking today about something that may be a little triggering for some people. It's a little bit of a serious conversation. Um- but it's something that we've been needing to talk about for a while because we've had a lot come up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This one- Uh, not with us personally, but we've seen it a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So today we're talking about predators. Yes. Sexual predators. And- Sexual predators? That's right. Sexual predators. What other kind of predators are there? Um, there's the nocturnal predators. They only come out at night and- Gotcha uh, normally eat small animals.

2:08 They're not normally humans. Okay. Um, yeah, the whole predator and prey thing. Sexual predators- Yeah … is what we're talking about today. Sexual predators in the lifestyle. And the only reason why we've really, really felt like we needed to talk about this is because we've ha- we have seen a lot of stuff come up lately. Yes. And it's- Yeah … one of those things where it's like, God, we really… I- it's, it's such a bummer to talk about. It is definitely one of the dark corners of the lifestyle. Mm-hmm. But it's also one of the things that people for some reason don't like to talk about out loud. And, um, you know, it's a conversation that's not normally had because it's not in the highlight reel. Yeah. It's not the fun stuff. It's not the party, party, party and we're on the, we're on a cruise and we're on this event and we're doing this.

2:51 No, no, no. This is… And it takes place, guys. And, and let's start off real quick by defining the predators in the lifestyle because you have… There's a difference, right? Between those awkward newbies and then someone showing you, like- their genuine predator patterns Well, so- Because it's like, because newbies can come off as predators only, only because they're new and they don't know how to interact yet. And, and so it looks kind of predatorial, but… Well, here, look, this, this should open things up for you- Okay a little bit. A predator is someone who repeatedly seeks out sexual or romantic contact by circumventing consent, uh, through pressure- Yeah … through deception, or targeting people less able to protect themselves, rather than through mutual informed agreement.

3:47 Now, a, there is a, a, a, a very big asterisk that should be parked on that. Uh, because when it comes to this community, the community distinction that usually matters is that everyone makes mistakes. Okay? Everyone makes mistakes or they misread a moment. It, it, it happens. I mean, I've done it. It's happened with us. We've both done it. I have done it. Um, the, but it's what makes a predator is the pattern. Yes. It's the fact that, "Oh, I just got called out- Yeah … and I realize this, but you know what?- Yes … I'ma keep on doing it- Yeah … because I don't give a fuck." I, I have, I have accidentally, and I'm gonna say accidentally, I've accidentally become the, uh, did that thing where I was like, "Oh, let- let's just go," without even- Yeah.

4:32 Yeah, yeah … like getting full… Nothing happened. Oh, we talked about it in a show. Yeah, we did a show. Yeah. Nothing happened. I'm just saying that that was a pattern. Like, that was something that could'a, that could've gone a totally different way. Now, I have been the person who has been Preyed upon? Preyed upon. Um By a sexual predator By a female and a male, like a couple. And it was, it, it's such a sad, um, it's such a sa- I, I'm, I'm fully aware, and it's such a sad situation because when it's your friend, they're your friends or people that you hang out with, and then something turns a corner, it's like, holy shit.

5:14 Now, we should really talk about, like, red flags. Like, how do you know one is a predator? Well, I got a list. Okay. I've put together, uh- Oh … uh, some notes here, and they're quite a bit. Okay. And we're gonna go down this list here. So the first, the first portion of it is consent violations. That's really, uh, one of the number one things is consent violations. Like you- Pushing past a no- Yeah, yeah … or a not yet. Yeah. Repeated asking, hoping to wear someone down. Yes. Uh, you personally have seen that, uh- Many times … have dealt with that towards yourself. Many times. Escalating touch or intensity without checking in. Mm-hmm. Using alcohol or environment to lower someone's guard rather than respecting stated limits.

6:00 Say that louder. And ignoring a partner's boundaries by going around them. Mm-hmm. Pressuring one half of a couple when the other has said no. Mm-hmm. Uh, so those are, those are all consent violations. And you know what's funny, is we've seen every single one of those. Like, stop real quick, people, and, and listen to everything he just said. I am sure you've either had that happen or you've done it and haven't been self-aware or haven't been called out. Well, see, and that's the thing. That, that does not make a sexual predator. A sexual predator knows what they're doing. True. And they're doing it. True. You know? Uh, a, a person who doesn't know any better is just a person that doesn't know any better, and a person who doesn't know any better is never gonna know until you call them out.

6:48 And honestly, even calling them out, they're gonna talk, they're gonna not express, like, they're not gonna understand, um, or they're not gonna take accountability. That's the sad part … most times That's the shitty part I mean, uh, that's what makes a sexual predator too- Yeah … is like- Yeah … you can call them out, they're not gonna take accountability, and they may continue doing the, the behavior. Yeah. That is a sexual predator. Yeah. Um, and unfortunately, it's not just in the lifestyle, it is in vanilla world. It's in everywhere. But we're talking about it right now because- Yeah. We've had it come- It doesn't get shut down as much in the lifestyle- It doesn't … because nobody wants to be the, uh, the asshole. Nobody wants to be the bitch. Nobody wants to be the one who stops a good time in the middle of a good time. Um, and I know that both of us have been in situations before where we wanted to say no, but we didn't because we didn't wanna stop the fun.

7:35 Yes. We didn't wanna screw things up. Yeah. Um- Yeah … and then also- And if you replay those situations it, it, you start realizing. It's like, "Oh- You start realizing … that's fucked up" … holy shit, that person totally isolated me. Yeah. You start looking at everything. And now I'm here. Yeah. Yeah, you start looking at everything. I'm, I'm, I'm… When I'm doing, if it's somebo- if it's me by myself, I'm very quick to like say no. Is, well, yeah. It's very hard When it's me and you Really? When someone is, has isolated you and I, it's very hard for me to say no because you may want to and I may not. Yes. And that person, that couple has isolated us. Yes, but- And you have gone along with it, and I have not … I have, but you know, if y- if you just speak up and say, "Yeah, I don't think so"- Yeah um, I always respect what you say- Yeah … and it's not gonna, you know, I, I go with what you're feeling because your intuition is genuinely good.

8:30 I think, I think I'm gonna say when it's something like that happens, I always go back to our very first beginning of lifestyle- Uh-huh … where you felt if we didn't partake, we lo- we missed opportunities. Oh yeah, because I hadn't had my experiences. And then you and I would kind… Yeah, you and I- Yeah … would kind of get into little riffs- We did, yeah … of little arguments about that. Early on. And so I think about that when I ha- and this is, things like that have not happened, like, we've not been isolated by a, a person or a couple in a while. It's been at least a year. Um, it's been less than a year. It actually happened this year. This year? Yeah. Really? Yeah, yeah, where we got isolated, and I was like, " Uh, uh, okay.

9:15 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'll talk, we'll talk about it anoth- yeah, yeah." Hmm. And so like things like that just don't, um… It's hard, right? Because like you said, one couple may want, one person may want, and the other person- Yeah may not. Right. Um, and you do, you do have to s- my own advice, you do have to speak up. Like… Well, I think that you finally realized that, uh, after your, your past couple of- Yeah … scenarios that have come up. Yeah. Um, what happens with you is in the moment usually you don't realize it, especially if it's somebody who's close to you- Yeah or their friend or whatever. Mm-hmm. Uh, you don't really realize- No … that that's what's happening- Mm-hmm … until afterwards.

9:57 Until afterwards. And you, and you personally, you think about it- Yeah … and you process it. And then you kind of put yourself in a, in, in a position where you're looking at it from a third party perspective- Yes and you're going, "That was not right." Yeah. And I have never seen you… When it happened to you, uh, I had never seen you You processed it for like four days It was- Four or five days … two, two days. 'Cause I, we, it came back- You got angrier and angrier- Yeah … every single time. Yeah. Like every day that passed- Yeah you got angrier. I get angry at myself, and I get angry at the person. Yeah. Because let me tell you what's always, guys, what's always, always, always involved in situations like this in the lifestyle, uh, that we have seen.

10:45 Alcohol. Alcohol. Number one. Because- I, we didn't even talk about that. I just know- Alcohol and you just know, it's alcohol. Alcohol is- Number, number one … guys, you, some people just don't know the intake, when to stop. They don't know their window. How to s- like- Yeah … and you think that it's okay to be belligerent and be like, "Oh," you know? You know, I unders- I understand it to an extent. Yeah. I get that we all need sometimes to lower our inhibitions- Yeah to feel comfortable in a setting where maybe you're not comfortable with your body, or maybe you don't have a whole lot of self-esteem, and normally if you were sober, you wouldn't even be there- Yeah … much less be talking to somebody else.

11:28 So you have to lower those inhibitions. I get it. Now, I have a weird real question, and I don't know when we're gonna throw this in here. Hmm. Predatorial things that people do, right? Mm-hmm. It's very noticed amongst men. For me, I can see a man being a predator a mile away. But How do you… W- when a woman is doing it, it's kinda hard because- … this is my thing. Like- Double standard … we go into a club, the woman is there looking around to see, like, ooh, which guy is going to fulfill my hot wife fantasy or, or who's gonna be able to do the slutty stuff with me. Mm-hmm. And we're looking, and we're trying to figure out which guy.

12:12 I mean, although we don't, like, always go up to the person, but we are being like It's a double standard, and here's the thing about it is, we expect as a whole, stereotypically, as a society, we expect men- Men to be the predatory person, the aggressor, the person who is too much. Yes. A- and, and that's why single guys in the lifestyle have such a bad reputation without actually having done anything to- Yeah … get that reputation. It's just something that we as a society, vanilla or lifestyle, automatically- Yes assume. Yeah. And then what's on the other side is people assume that women are safe.

12:55 And we are not. I've been violated by women. Yeah. Now, here's the thing about it is- Now, you… 'Cause see, but you- … I'm okay with it. You're okay with that. Yes. And see, this is where things get muddled- But- in the lifestyle. And this is, this is the problem that, that the lifestyle has that is a gray area. Because there are people like me who I'm good with it. Like, I am here for sexual experiences, and depending on the person, like, if they're gonna be grabbing at me and doing stuff without consent, if I'm into it, absolutely. Um, I'm, I'm down for it. And there are several people in the lifestyle that are like me, but there are several people in the lifestyle that are nothing like me. Yeah. They're like you.

13:36 Yeah. And it's like, motherfucker, don't even touch me without asking me first. Yeah. Don't even try and, a- and, and that's literally the way it should be. It's out of respect. Now, now- I know some of the women that have done that to you I do too Those… But they do it to everybody They do it to everybody. Now- Which is predatory … like, it's, I find that it's predatory, and no one says anything about it, because everyone likes it. That's- Or like, or the people that they like it, right? Like- Well, so the people that don't like it don't speak up. Yes. The people that like it, like myself, we're not gonna speak up. No. I'm good with it. No. But if it happens to you- Yeah … or if it happens to somebody in the lifestyle- Yeah … that doesn't like it- Yeah … and they don't speak up, and they don't call it out, then this person's gonna think it's okay, and they're gonna continue on.

14:23 Like, when I kiss a guy, I always ask him, "Hey, is it cool if I kiss you?" Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that's the way it should be. I have never, ever heard anyone ask you Um. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. You know, I sit here and I think about it, I- Now, I don't care- I don't think I've been asked … if you've already discussed it on your texting and whatever, because I have- Uh-huh … as well. Uh-huh. But still, I'm gonna ask them. Well, I always ask too, even if we've talked about it in- Yeah in, um, conversation. Yeah. But the women that kiss you don't ever ask. Hmm. They never ask. That's true. Yeah. And, you know, the one thing that's, that's thrown about a little bit but not as often, is that you can gain consent the first time- Yes … but that's not a blanket consent- It's not a blanket … most of the time.

15:08 Now, I have told people- " You've got a blanket consent" … with a blanket consent. You see me and you see me in the, in the club- Well, like our friends … or in the house, help yourself. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? Like- Like, we, but we're vocal about that. Yeah. But if we haven't told a person that- Yeah and they think that over and over again, I mean, that's a violation. And that's what people really bring up often is, "Well, it's, it wasn't a blanket consent. Like, I'm, I'm not feeling it today." Like, you should really ask every single time. Yeah. Uh, because you just don't know what the situation is on that day. You don't. You don't know… Yeah, you don't know what kind of mood. I mean, you could catch me on a mood where I'm like, " Watch yourself." Yeah. "Watch yourself." Yeah. Well, you know, I mean, you can, uh… But I, I think a lot of people don't really fuck with you unless they know you- Yeah … because you put off those 'don't fuck with me' vibes.

15:56 I mean, and I feel like everyone should have those vibes. Hmm. Ladies. Possibly. You should have those vibes. I mean, it is a protection. It is a protection. It is. It's a good, it… Yeah. Um. So very quickly, yesterday we had somebody. Yeah. So we were- Yeah … at the club yesterday, and there was this single guy. Now, mind you, we sat in our little booth. This man was in front of us in one of those tables. Yeah, a table in front of, uh, our couch area. I sat down, and he was literally staring at me. Nonstop, and he, that's because his back was towards us, so it wasn't like he was- And he would turn. Yeah, he would turn full body and just stand there and stare at her, and then he'd turn back around, and then he'd turn back. And to, I'm not a jealous person- No … and I'm not bothered by things.

16:40 I get it. But even that creeped me out. Yeah. I was like, "This dude is too much." And you were like, "Is he single?" And I was like, "I don't know, but do you see him staring?" He's like, "Yeah, he's been staring." Now, he walked in with a box of White Claws, and that was the kind of the ongoing joke, was that single guy walking in. I'm talking a big ass box of White Claws. Yeah. He had them open. He was drinking, and it was very obvious to me that he was trying to bait a woman into sleeping with him. Yeah. And that's what I got from it. Oh, for sure. Now, there- He went up to- We've seen single guys in the club- Oh, so many … and they've handled themselves respectfully- Yes and everything. But this guy, there was something about him- Yeah … that was just wrong. Now, let me tell you guys, this is why I love the Club Eden that we go to.

17:20 Yeah. Like, let me explain this to you. This guy is there. He's going up to each group, right? He talked to this one couple. I guess they weren't interested. He talked to another couple And he's drunk. He walked in drunk He's, he's drunk Talked to another couple, went to the, the host people to, to introduce him to other people, went, talked to them. I knew he was gonna make his way to us. I knew he was And even through all of that, he kept staring at you still. Yeah We, we were at a, a very tight area in our couch, so it was me and you, and there was another couple that was next to us. Yeah There wasn't really room for anybody else. No Uh, but in the middle of our conversation, as we're talking- He comes and introduces himself … he comes and introduces himself And then- And so we, a- and so we shook hands- Yeah we said hello, uh, did that whole thing, and then he eventually walked away.

18:11 Yeah Uh, and that was like, okay. I mean, it was, it, it was kind of a weird situation We were not inclusive. I was not inclusive. And that's rare. That's rare because we are very inclusive, but- Yes … the thing about it is, is if you're drunk and you're making this woman feel uncomfortable and creepy before you've even introduced yourself- My, my little- the inclusivity bug is gone. Yeah. It's so gone It's going away. And so that's essentially what happened. He came, he interrupted our conversation, which, which in and of itself I could tell annoyed you. Uh, but then he introduced himself. And of course, his words were slurring and he- Yeah … he said hello and he kinda stood there, could not read the room. And that's one of my big things is- Could not … in this lifestyle, you have to read the room. Yes Uh, could not read the room.

18:52 It was obvious that it was an awkward situation. Nobody could really hear what he was saying. So eventually he took the hint and he walked away. Yeah Uh, we continued on throughout the night having conversation. It was a great time, and then randomly, I didn't even see him show up. All of a sudden he was just there. Oh, I, I was watching him the whole time. Yeah? All of a sudden he was just there. Yeah And he says, "Is it okay if I sit with you guys?" Now I am… We were talking about this last night. We were kinda laughing about this because my wife and I are so different. Um, she is, she is out to protect herself and she's out to protect- All women … other, other women.

19:33 All women You know? That, uh, her head is on a swivel. She's constantly very, very vigilant about where, you know, this, this kind of behavior is taking place. And especially because I know we have friends that are there that don't know how to say their no's yet, are very still weary about saying their no. So I specifically am like locked onto them. Yeah. And I'm like- Yeah, so- … are they good? So she's, she's already, like she's more cynical than I am. I am a nice guy. I feel horrible, you know? And so we were talking to the other couple about that last night. I was like, "You know, really, uh, those are the kind of… That, that's, that's how we are. That's the balance that we are." But because of that I always revert to her.

20:15 Yeah Um, and this guy showed up and out of nowhere interrupted our conversation and said, "Is it okay if I sit with you guys?" Now one, there was no room on the couch where we were sitting. But B- Uh, this, I, I wasn't gonna say anything because if it was up to me, I would've been like, "Well, let me stand up. Here, have a seat," you know, because that's just my nature. And I always revert to you, so that's exactly what I did. I looked right over at you. And, um, like the hero of the night that you are- … you sat there, you looked right at him, you made straight eye contact, and you didn't, you didn't say it with attitude. No. You didn't s- you didn't say it ugly.

20:57 You looked at him and you said, "No." " Thanks." " And, and you, and you didn't give off a smug smile or anything, but y- I, I thought you did. Yeah. You delivered it perfectly. Yeah. Um, he did not take the no very well because he made this face. I said, "No, thanks," and then I looked back at my friends 'cause I didn't care what he was doing. But you looked at him. I did. He looked, and he made this face like he was highly offended, and I was like, "Aw." You know? Like, I was thinking in my head- Yeah … "Aw, man, that's…" I mean, I get that feeling. I understand, although I've never put myself in that position. Yeah. I've never been told like that. I can only imagine. Uh, I can empathize I guess. No. Uh, but he left, you know?

21:39 Uh, and then shortly thereafter, I believe he was kicked out- Yeah … of the club. Was he not? Yeah. We went to the back. Yeah. When we came back, they had kicked him out. Yeah. So I don't know the whole story. I have to get with the other couple that was there 'cause we left, and I was like, "Aw, man." But I know there was like a- he was- There was a thing … standing outside, um, and the manager was watching him. So- Yeah … like I said, he was already drunk when he came in, and then he started- And they were very vigilant- … drinking … watching him. Oh, and that's why we love this club. That's why. Because the safety aspect of this club- Mm-hmm is fantastic. Mm-hmm. Your club is only as good as your staff. Yes. And Eden in San Antonio has an amazing staff- They do … that makes us all feel very safe- Yeah … and very comfortable.

22:25 And, um- And they're so vigilant. You can't go… Single g- men can't go to the back without a couple- Or another woman … a couple or another woman. Yeah, yeah. And, um, they are vigilant. Yeah, they let this guy in, and he was good for a while- Yeah … and then boom, it went south. Yeah. But you could tell he was predatorial. Yeah. I told Adam, I said, "Look, he's just like a predator. He looks like a freaking animal looking to see who can he, he can feed on," and be like… And he went up to everybody, and I was watching him like a freaking hawk. Yeah. Like, y'all were all having a conversation. I was like Yeah, no, I, uh, I'm oblivious- Yeah … to things. Uh- Now- … but I don't, I don't need to watch people have sex … now if that was a woman- Yeah … I probably would've been like, "Yeah, but you're getting about, you're about to get sober, home girl.

23:15 Like I'm about to give you some water and you- Yeah … are gonna drink it, and you are gonna sober up, and we are not playing. This is just your little safe spot." Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Like that's the thing. But- But you wouldn't have done that with a guy because- No … you- Oh, the way he came off was gross … he was looking to grope. Yeah. He was thinking he was gonna get lucky, and he was in the wrong place. And you know, it's like, God, you just wasted a Good amount of money … because they charge quite a bit for single men. For single. Yeah. Um, and so this guy came in already, uh, already drunk, paid this money, came in, looked around, creeped people out, eventually got kicked out. Like it wasn't even that long.

23:55 Yeah. It was what? A couple hours maybe? Maybe less than that. Not even that. Hour and a half? Hour? Yeah, maybe. Yeah. Damn. You know, that's just one of many. You know, there, there was a… The, I think the, the real bummer is when we realized that we had been associating with predators. Ugh. Uh, you know, I, I, I personally, and this is the part where you and I would differ on this, I personally give everybody the benefit of the doubt. Right. But the moment that I find out that you are a sexual predator, or the moment that I find out that you have fucked up in such a way where it wasn't a one-time deal, this was, you've done this with other people, um, you're done.

24:41 Yeah. Now- I'm not that person to call them out in front of the whole community. Yeah. I know that we should be protecting our community, but at the same time, uh, I'm not frigging Batman. Uh, I'm not swinger Batman. Yeah. Uh, I… it's not up to me to bring people up to justice and that sort of thing, and frankly, I don't wanna use my platform- And, and- for something like that. Um- And I know that people say, like, "Just because it happened to you doesn't mean it's gonna happen to somebody else." I know for a fact certain predators have been predatorial to other people. That's true. But- You know, there was this couple that we used to be, uh, really good friends with, and, uh, they used to throw a lot of house parties. Yeah. And the, the guy of, the guy of the couple, you, you realized- You mentioned something, and I didn't realize it then … well, so yeah.

25:29 I mean, they, they threw parties, and it was, uh, exclusive-only parties, and they made it real clear to us. They were like, "Oh, yeah, we only invite people that we know we would wanna play with." And let me tell you that I saw, I didn't- I didn't think anything of that … I didn't think the red flags, especially when they said, when we first went to their party and they said… I was like, "Man, all these guys are, are kinda young." "That's how we like them." I was like, I didn't think anything. Yeah, and you know, it did not pop. No. Because we were friends. It did not pop. And we weren't having sex with them. No. So I was like, " Whatever." And we, we never, we never played with them. Yeah. Uh, but it, it did not- No … it just didn't ring true. Yeah. And it wasn't until afterwards that, you know, at some point, things started happening.

26:13 We saw behavior, and before anything came to us, like we found out that there was actual predatory behavior happening, uh, before we knew that- Yeah you called it. Yeah. You were like, "That dude's… He's, he's, he acts so predatory and-" The, the, the vibes he would give off to me would make me hide. Adam would be holding me on one end. He would come in and talk to me, and I would move around Adam to be on the other side It was, it would be very obvious It was- Very obvious like I did not want him to touch me.

26:54 I didn't, like… And he would, like, grab my leg, and I'd be like, "Yeah, no." Yeah, yeah. Um, but dude was a predator. Now wait, wait for this. His wife was just as much. And as we talked about it, we realized, holy shit, his wife was a big part of that predatory behavior A big part. Yeah, yeah. So before we found out anything that had happened, and apparently there's been a few things that have happened with them. Yeah. Before we found out about that, but towards the end of our friendship you could say, uh, you know, you were real uncomfortable and you were like, "Man, that, he's, he's just really ridiculously bad," and that sort of thing. But we didn't see anything with her. We didn't put it all together- Mm-mm … until we started hearing about that.

27:37 And then I started thinking, I was like, holy shit, she was predatory in, in finding women. In finding women. And he was predatory in finding his young people. Yeah. And they w- they were, you know, throwing parties in the lifestyle and inviting people over, and it was a thing. And it's like, wow, you know? I mean- You never know. Like, it's, yeah, we were around it and we didn't pick up. But, like, things like that are things that I've learned and, uh, they just stay in the file cabinet. They stay in the file cabinet. Yeah. And like- Oh, yeah, no. When we make a mistake, we don't make it more than once. No. And these sort of things, when you see a red flag and you didn't realize it and then you realize it afterwards, you don't ever let those things get past again.

28:21 Like, that's it. That's it. Uh, and we recognize that. Yeah. Now, it, it kind of, I don't know. One, it's disappointing to find out that you're… And this isn't the first time. No. Like, we've known other people- Mm-hmm … who have been predators and have hidden themselves in the lifestyle so that they can y- you know, they, they portray themselves as, as this, uh, you know, well-to-do couple in the lifestyle. Mm-hmm. And, you know, we look for newbies, and we're trying to make sure newbies have a good experience. I've heard that from some people. Oh my gosh. Because I know a lot of people that they're like, "Oh, well, we stay away from newbies because they don't seem to know boundaries," and this and that, blah, blah, blah.

29:05 I know a lot of people that are like, "No, we look for newbies- Yeah … because we wanna make sure they have a good experience." Yeah. And really, that's some bullshit. That's bullshit. That's some bullshit because we've seen them- Like, these specifically pe- these people specifically is… It was, we realize, was not for that. No, they latch on to these people. Yeah. And they basically use them as their, um, "That's our couple." Yeah. You know? "Those are our people." Mm-hmm. You know? And they may be able to, like, talk with other people, but those are their people. Or- Uh, that's predatory behavior, you know? And we've seen people… Also, we've seen couples attach themselves to someone who maybe has just broken up with their significant other.

29:48 Like, they're- Yeah … single now and they're like, "Ooh." Seen that a few times. Yeah. And it's like, damn, it's like flies on shit. She's a, she's a, she's a broken bird. Yeah. So let me go over here. Let me go over there. We'll, we'll swoop in and we'll be able to… Yeah. And sometimes, well, I'd say most times, the people that do that know what they're doing. Mm-hmm. They know very well what they're doing. Um- Because they can control. They're grooming. They're grooming that person to be what they want in the lifestyle. Yeah. Man, we've seen it to where they even get upset if that person is playing with somebody else. Like- Yeah, yeah … the stories that we- They take ownership they take ownership. Oh, dude. The stories that we have heard, you know? Yeah. Now, when you know someone's a predator and someone, say, in the group has brought it up and they have blasted this person, these people- Should these people be exploited?

30:40 Like, should it be thrown out there to the community? Should it? You know, honestly, we- I'm a very different… I have a very different thought than Adam … I f- I feel like we, uh, we govern ourselves individually. Yeah. And what happens with us may not happen with other people. Now- Or what happens with this couple may not happen with other people … what if you know it's happened with other people? I mean, I don't know. It's- That's my thing. Like- That's, it's, it's, um, I don't feel like we have a moral obligation to stand out there and be people's judge, jury, and executioner. And that's where I, I s- I find I say different. Like, I think that everybody should be, everyone should have their guard up and everyone should know these people, this person, whatever, watch out for them.

31:25 Like, they should be, they should have a little red flag on them because- But see, telling pe- so h- in my past- Yeah … um, I, and this is a little different, I understand, but any time I start a new job, when people come up to me and they make friends with me and then they start going, "Hey, you see those guys over there? You need to watch out for them." Yes. But that's different. Or, "You see that guy over here?" But that's different. You need… A- and every time somebody has done that to me, that's told me that that's the person with the problem, that's the person that we need to stay away from. And we've had that in the lifestyle early on where people told us- We have "You need to stay away from this person," or, "You need to stay away from that person." Mm-hmm. And- ' Cause we make our own judgments … and then, exactly, we make our own judgments.

32:07 But what, What if it's actually you've, you've had several people s- tell you the same story What if it's several people have told you the same story? Well, normally- Where, where- … that person would be out of our sight, period, because once that happens, the community has talked. But what if, but what if they're not? What if they're still there? I don't know. That's a problem. Like- I don't know … like when is it… When, what do you say? You know, yeah, and if that person never, those people never take accountability or that person never takes accountability- Mm-hmm what then? What then? Yeah. You know? They pretend like it didn't happen. But like I said, the lifestyle's a great place for these kind of people to- Mm-hmm … to hide.

32:47 Mm-hmm. And not be noticed. Because it's something that can be noticed in the vanilla world pretty well. Uh, also it's expected in the vanilla world. I think now- Now, not, not as couples, I'm not talking about as couples, but as individuals- I think now … who are married a lot of times. I think now. Yeah. Now. Now it's… And now, now we can see it, but we didn't before. No, we didn't before, but- Like, I think it's known now to see the predators ahe- like, like- For us in, in the vanilla world, I'm talking about. Yeah, for us. Yeah. Uh, but what I'm saying is it's just as prevalent in the vanilla world, not as couples, because couples don't get predatory with other people unless they're in the lifestyle usually. Yeah. But individuals who maybe are married in monogamous relationships, uh, you know, who cheat- Mm-hmm get very predatory.

33:35 Mm-hmm. I've, I've been around a lot of guys. Oh, yeah. I used to work as a weld inspector. I- Yeah … I've been around a lot of guys, and going out after work and the bars and this and that, the predatory behavior, it exists. Oh, man, I've seen that with women. I've seen women- And see, I haven't- be very predatory to the person they're cheating with. Yeah? Oh, yeah. No shit. Yeah. I always wondered about that because I haven't been… I, I, I always had friends that were girls, but the way a girl acts with a guy and the way a girl acts with other girls are just different. Yeah, yeah. Women, excuse me. Yeah, yeah. Women. Keep saying girls. Women. Uh, but, uh, yeah, you know, that, that was always… I don't know, that was always my thing. Yeah. I mean- I, I always, like, Adam stifles me I do … but I would totally be like, "Mm, yeah, you need to stay away from that person, especially if they're drinking." Like, that's how, this is how they get.

34:29 And- But they may not get that way with everybody But what if you know they have? What if they've only done it with a couple of people, but everybody else they've been with- I think a couple is enough … it's never happened. Well, I, I agree, but I also don't agree. I, I think, I mean, if you know of a, somebody who acts like that and you know that it's happened to four people four different times- Yeah, that's a lot that's a lot. That's a lot. Should they be ostracized? Well, so I, I think, first off, how do you even announce it? How do you, how do you label it? Sure, if, if they're in the Facebook communities or if they're in larger communities- Yeah … with other people, yeah, they can be ousted outside of that particular community.

35:14 Yes. But they'll never be ousted outside of the lifestyle period because, what are this, th- this isn't The Scarlet Letter. Yeah. You know? You don't, you don't- Yeah … toss them with a certain color and put a patch on them. Like, that's not how this works. Yeah. So the fact is- So you kinda have no, you really have no- There is no way to- There's no way all you can do is protect your inner circle. Yeah. You can protect your people, which I understand, but also, those are your people. Those are your people. Would I go up to somebody who's brand new, maybe just walked into the club and, and was introduced to us? Would I go, "Hey, you see those people across the way over there that are dancing funny?" Yeah. " Yeah, th- stay away from them." Yeah. You know? I just, I just don't feel like I should be the person to say that. No, you're, you're, you're, you're right.

35:55 I mean, y- you may be right. And what can you do? I mean- I think we're both right … I don't even think there's a right or wrong. Yeah. Like, it's just, it's- It's, it's really difficult, yeah it's just a society and- It's a question of ethics. Um, it's like, are, i- are we gonna… It- And you just- … it's almost like one of those what would you do from 2020 scenarios. Yeah. And you just, yeah. It's like what would you do? You pretty, you pretty much have to educate yourself. Hold on, hold on. We need to tell you guys about 3Fun first. Oh, yeah. Okay, so 3Fun is the app. You guys know the app. And if you don't know, it's for couples and singles who wanna connect with like-minded people. And it actually works. Like, we're not just saying that. It's easy, it's low pressure, and it's way less awkward than trying to figure it out on your own.

36:38 Way less. We're gonna leave it at that. Yep. Download 3Fun. The link is in the show notes. Okay, where were we? Huh. Like, there's red flags. There's a lot of red flags. There's a lot of- Yeah … different personalities. There's different people in the lifestyle. And what I always tell people, and I, I think I make so many videos about this and I post it all the time, your partner, if you're going in as a couple, your partner, you and your partner have to have an understanding. You have to be able to h- assist each other and protect each other.

37:19 Like, I am super protective of Adam. Adam's very protective of me. Yeah. He knows I can hold my own and I will put a stop to whatever I feel uncomfortable with. To an extent. If I don't feel like it, he's there to back it up I look like a tough guy on the exterior. Yeah. Uh, and if I have to have that person come out, that's a past Adam that I haven't had to have come out. Yeah. But if I have to- Yeah … I can bring him out- Yeah … and I can take care of things if need be. Yeah. I would rather not. We're all adults here. Uh- He's the tough one. No, I'm not … but at the same time, uh, people who have met us, a lot of them will be afraid of me because of how I look, and really, they should be afraid of you- Yeah because of how you act.

38:04 So it's like you will, you will call it out. You'll call out the bad behavior. Um, you know, if you and I were on What Would You Do on 2020- Oh, man … and it was you separately and it was me separately, there would be a lot of, not necessarily sweeping under the rug. I would call things out that are blatant. Uh, but I, when I call things out, it's just slightly different- Yes … uh, than way, the way you call things out. Yeah. Um, you're a very in your face kind of person. Um, there was a time where, uh, there was a, you saw a guy that was basically sexually assaulting, uh, one of our friends on the dance floor. Oh my God. Um, and you walked up there and started dancing with her and went up to him and said- You … "If you touch her again"- I will fuck you up … yeah.

38:53 Now, I wouldn't have handled it that way. Like- Uh, I would have contacted the, uh, the manager, which I did while she did that, and it was taken care of. Mm-hmm. They got rid of the guy. Mm-hmm. He's banned. He's never allowed back in. Um, I think it was great you stood up and you did what you did, but you and I have very… We, we agree- Yes … to a point. We agree. Uh, you know, we do have to protect our community, and we do have to protect our people. Uh, but this is a very large community, and you don't know, um, you don't know everything all the time if it's- You don't not dealing with you directly. You don't. Yeah. You don't. And, and, and I don't say things until I see something.

39:36 So when I see something and I don't see anybody calling that person out, I'm gonna call him out. Yeah. I'm not embarrassed. I'm gonna call you out. You know? Yeah. I mean- I've, I think I've been silent enough in my life and have seen so much and have heard so many stories that I'm, I'm done being silent. Like, I'm done. Like, sorry if, if it ha- you know, if something happens the way you didn't want it to happen, but I, I am so okay with calling people out on- I mean, we do have- … on bad behavior … we have a moral obligation to protect the people in our community. Um- I think we have a moral obligation to protect not even in our community- People, period just period.

40:17 Yeah. I agree. Yeah. I agree. Uh, but at the same time, and, and this is just a, a… I mean, your, your argument is way better than mine, 100%, because I am on your side. Uh, but you know me, apparently I like to argue with you a lot- Yes, you do … so you pointed out the other day. But that's okay. Uh, but even still- You like to be the opposite of me. I don't agree with that, but that's just me talking. Uh, but yeah, I, I do feel like we have a, um, a moral obligation to take care of your fellow person- Mm-hmm … your fellow human being. Uh, but also we dabble in a lifestyle where CNC is a thing You know what CNC is?

41:01 Mm-mm. Consent non-consent. Yeah. Oh, that's right. Consent non-consent. And we have a lot of friends who dabble in this- Mm-hmm … with their, with their others. Yeah. Um, and this, maybe there's an agreement, and that's why I don't pop over and jump into things if I don't know 100%, you know? A- agree. I mean, it, it could- Agree … be a situation. And, and, and when it's a situation, I mean, you can kinda tell. You can kinda tell. Yes. You're right, because there is an uncomfortable deer in the headlights look- Yes … that a person will have when they're getting sexually assaulted- Yes … and they feel like there's nothing that they can do about it. Yes. There's a specific look.

41:42 There's a look. And that's not a CNC look. No. Um, so yeah, I mean, you're, like I said, you're right. Yeah. I'm just pointing out that there are caveats to this. Yeah. Uh, because not everything in this arena, especially with the lifestyle, is that clear-cut and dry. Yeah. Um, and that's the scary part, guys. That's the scary part- Yeah … about the lifestyle. It is a scary- Mm-hmm portion of the lifestyle- Mm-hmm … that sexual assaults will happen- Yes … if you are not vigilant- Yeah … if you are not paying attention- Mm-hmm … to what's around you and what's happening. It can happen with strangers. Mm-hmm. It can happen with the people that you've known for months.

42:23 Yes. And it can happen with people that you've known for years. Yeah. Uh, it, it, you really don't know. But when it happens, it happens. Yeah. And you really have to sit back and go, "How am I gonna handle this- Mm-hmm … now? Am I gonna sweep it under the rug and pretend like it didn't happen in hopes it doesn't happen again? Am I gonna, am I gonna confront it and call it out and say, 'I really hope that this was a first and only time that this ever happens'"? Um, or are you just gonna say, "You know what? Fuck you. You shouldn't have done that. I'm out. Peace." Like, how are you gonna handle it? Yeah. And, uh, how, how would you, how would you handle it? Oh, I, I, I definitely learn from my experiences.

43:03 Yeah. I learn from all, every, all and every experience that I've had in my whole life, I learn, and to this day, I am still learning. One, I will always be loud. Yeah. I will always be loud. I will, I will always… If I feel uncomfortable with a situation, I know to say no. Absolutely. Like, I know how to say no. Yeah, yeah. I know to also be vigilant of my fellow women. Uh-huh. And if I see deer in headlights, I will always ask, "Are you good?" Right. "Are you okay?" Right. Um- I, I will, I'll call out. If something is happening to me, I'm gonna call it out And I love- And- I love you for that I- And I wish there were more like you- Yeah … in this lifestyle.

43:47 We have friends, uh, even in our club. That's one of the reasons why we like the club. Some of the people that show up there just as often as us are, are like you in that. Yes. They will call out bad behavior. They will call out bad behavior. They will very clearly tell people no. They will, they will stand up for the others around them. And, and, I mean, I understand if someone is, is, is drinking, and, you know, inhibitions are lower. I understand that. Mistakes happen. I will tell you, "Hey, you're acting a little erratic right now, and I am not enjoying this." Yeah. Like, I don't play with people who are too inebriated. And then the guy looks at you and goes, "Erratic? Yeah. Fucking A."

44:30 I do not… I don't- I knew I was, had erratic behavior. You want White Claw? Oh my God- Sorry … the White Claw guy is gonna- Sorry be in our thing 'cause I was like, I was like, "That's how you get them." Sorry, White Claw. That's how you get them. Sorry. That's how you get the girls with your White Claw. Um, no, I, I have no, I have no problem. Um, and I feel like I get more empowered- As time goes on … after every situation. Yeah, it's funny because, uh, I used to always talk about how when a woman who is in an abusive relationship separates from them and gets a divorce and finally realizes and empowers herself- Mm-hmm she empowers herself, and she almost goes over that mark- Yeah … to, you know, kind of overinflates- Yeah … that empowerment- Yes … to show off that- Yeah … " Hey, you don't fuck with me now."

45:19 Yes. " You have no hold over me." Yes. And I think it's kind of the similar situation for you. It is, yeah, yeah. Because every time there's a situation it's like, "You know what? You got away with that this time, motherfucker." You ain't getting it. "But nobody's gonna do it again." Yeah. Like, that's it. Pretty much. Yeah, no, that's- That's exactly what it is. It's a- I know my wife … I, um… And if I see those people around, I'm vigilant of who they're talking to. To see if they're taking advantage of them? Yes. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Uh, I, I think the one that blows my mind the most is the couple ownership, uh, couples taking ownership of newer couples. Yeah. And what's crazy about it is I f- I've seen it and not realized that that was happening.

46:04 Yeah. And I've been told stories- Yeah … from people who were popular couples in the lifestyle talking about when they got into the lifestyle, that couples came in and basically took ownership of them, and they did not know it. And let me tell you, oh my God, yes. Yeah. And the stories that fucking come out of these people's mouths. It's incredible. And it's, it's called grooming. It's grooming, people. These people are grooming you. Put a name on it. And what fucking just blows my mind is that you're saying this, and I know of the fucking group that's still going on and fucking grooming.

46:47 Yeah. And just grooming. Yeah. And grooming, and it's like, do you not, did you not hear what we told you? Do you not understand? Like- Yeah … I hope to God you're listening to this show. Yeah. It, it's- Like, I hope, like, I might even send it to them and be like- It's really bad … " You guys need to understand this right here." Yeah. You know, it's, it's… And that's the thing about it is it's not even, you can't sit back and go, "Well, it's, they don't realize that they're doing it." No, they, they know. Oh, they know. They know what they're doing. They know. Um- It's predatory … it, 'cause that's what predator, uh, predators. It's the predators. Uh, that's what predators do. Yeah. They, uh, that's exactly what they do.

47:27 They know what they're doing. They're doing it for a purpose. Uh, and like you said, yeah, uh, we did that a little bit when we first started as newbies because we didn't know any better. I was, uh, hungry for those experiences. Yeah, but we didn't, but we didn't- We didn't really prey on anybody, no I was like, "We didn't prey on anybody"- No … 'cause we didn't have fun when… We didn't even play with anybody We didn't really. Uh, but- You, and your situation was different, baby. You looked for people. Yeah. You didn't press. You weren't, you weren't love bombing. Motherfuckers were love bombing you. You did not love bomb them. That's true. You know what I mean? Like- Yeah. Yeah … it was a different situation. We were not preying.

48:09 We made accidents, but we didn't, we didn't prey. Yeah, no, that's true. Um- We're not… That's not in our nature. No. No, it really isn't. I don't think you'd ever let that happen. No. Um, I'm not, I'm not that kind of person, but I, I really am, I'm like you. You know, we've always kind of looked out for other human beings. Mm-hmm. Um- But I do get what you mean. You were preyed upon. Well, I mean, I had no experience. Yeah. I was new, and then when we entered the lifestyle, there were couples in our community that were, um- Oh they were, they had been in it, and they were, you know, floating around in it quite a bit. They preyed us- They did … to be with me.

48:50 Yeah. Yeah. That's exactly it. Like, that was a lot. Yeah. And, uh, even then- You know what? I completely forgot about that. Uh-huh. But even then, you were sexually… That was one of the first times you were sexually assaulted by somebody- Mm-hmm at a, a beach orgy. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, and that guy had no control over himself at all. Mm-mm. Like, he just could not… He, he felt like it was okay for him to touch and- Mm-hmm … and you know what? In that community- I didn't know my no. No, you didn't. I did not know my no, guys And we were, we were still very, very new. Mm-hmm. Although you did tell him no once because, uh, if you remember, we had that, that little SUV. Yeah. And so we, we kind of broke off from everybody, and we went into that SUV, and we started having sex in there.

49:35 And he was around. He was- And he was watching through the windows, and then he tried to climb in, and you pushed him off, and you were like, "No, this is just us." Yeah. And so he ended up walking away. And then later on, somebody else was involved, and we were all having a thing. Yeah. And then he thought it was okay for him- Yeah … to just penetrate you. Yeah, yeah. And- Yeah … you didn't have your no. I didn't have my no. And it happened. And I don't even know if anybody's told that guy no. He did that for several years. Yeah. And he developed a reputation in the community of breaking the, uh, the boundaries of people. Yeah. And nobody- Mm-hmm … I don't think anybody ever called him out. Mm-mm.

50:16 This is incredible. I didn't. Yeah. But if I were to see the motherfucker now… Yeah. You know what's funny is his ex- Mm-hmm who is still our friend- Yeah … she had told me that, uh, they as a couple were playing with this other couple that we knew. Mm-hmm. Um, and they were doing parallel play, right? Mm-hmm. Uh, and he did not use a condom with his, with his girlfriend. Oh, okay. With his girlfriend. Um, and of course the other couple, the, the husband and wife, they didn't use a condom. But the, their, her boundary- Uh-huh … our friend, her boundary is always condoms. We do not do unprotected. Uh-huh.

50:57 Um, so they swapped, and she said that she noticed that the guy that she… The, the husband, uh, that was having s- sex with her was attempting to take off the condom in the middle of sex, and she's very vocal. She has her no. And she stopped. She said, "Uh-uh, what do you think you're doing? You're not gonna do that." And she was like, "We're not doing this." She realized this was something the, the boys had discussed- … and said it was okay because he, this, the one that had sexually assaulted you, was condomless in the wife.

51:38 And the difference was, was that our friend was very upset, made a huge deal about it, was pissed off- Oh, I would … and even got pissed off at the wife because- She was in on it … she said, "I think she was in on it," because she seemed to have been enjoying it. No. And I-- blew my fucking mind. No. Mm-mm. And you know, you know that, that is illegal. Did you know that? Uh, there's a name for it, and I can't remember, but somebody that, that we follow, uh, has been doing some, uh, content on it, and she was talking about how, uh… I can't remember what it's called. But when you're having penetrative sex with somebody, and condoms are a must and the, the, that, that's the agreed-upon thing, and you find some way of taking off the condom so that you can have sex with them without, that is against the law.

52:35 Really? It is. It is. Now I have to look for it. I actually had sent it to you, uh, that, that content creator. Let me, let me put it up here. Let's see. Wow Yeah. Stealthing Stealthing Stealthing is what it's called. Yeah And that I, I c- I knew it started with an S. I couldn't- In many places, removing condom during prene- penetrive- Penetrative, yeah … penetrative sex without your partner's knowledge or consent often is called stealthing and can be illegal. Whether it's a crime depends on the laws where it happened, but these are generally two possibilities. Criminal law, someone states and countries… Oh, some states and countries have laws that specifically prohibit unconsent- non-consensual condom removal or prosecuted under sexual assault or related offenses.

53:24 It could also be a civil law. Even where it isn't a specific crime, the person who has, who was harmed by the person can sue for damages. Yeah. That's a thing. I mean, if you did that to someone- That's a fucking thing … it's, it's not okay, people. It is not okay. Consent, baby. My goodness. It's all about consent, and when you do things to break that consent, to break those boundaries, uh, without obtaining consent, yeah, that's probably illegal. So that's something that you gotta look out for. It can happen, guys, you know? You just never know. Um, and I'm not saying don't trust.

54:04 Yeah. I'm not saying go out there and don't make friends and, and- S- state … you know. S- exactly. State your boundaries. Yeah State your rules. Be vigilant. Be steadfast about that. If you're a single person, if you're a single woman, always go with somebody. Make friends. Know who you're talking to. Don't drink too much- Don't drink too much, yeah … if you're out. Don't drink too much. I understand everybody likes to have a good pastime. There's a, there's a, there's a point. If you need to be inebriated to be at an event, then you shouldn't be at the event. Yeah. Um- That's a good point … you know, you and your partner set your own words. You know, safe words.

54:44 Safe words One of y'all has to be sober, guys. You can't both be drunk. Like- Yeah … you know? And read the fucking room. Read the room. Like, if a woman- is saying, "No, not right now," or, you know, g- we do this thing where we're like, "You're funny," Yeah and push you away. That means no. Yeah. We just don't know how to say it yet. Yeah. It's, it's any kind of no, whether it's verbal or non-verbal- Yeah … um- Yeah … is a no. Is a no. If it's not enthusiastic consent, it's a no. There you go. Um, and I, I know that there's a lot of argument about what exactly is enthusiastic consent. Well, I mean, it, it doesn't mean that they have to be jumping up and down, "Yay, let's go." Mm-hmm.

55:29 No, it just means that they have to be into it. You can tell when somebody's saying yes and- Reciprocating the same energy … and, yeah. Yeah. They're, they're basically just not- Yeah … they're not there on the same level as you, but they're saying yes because they maybe feel like they're obligated to. That is not- Yeah … an enthusiastic consent. And, uh, frankly, why would you want it unless- And it's okay to say no. It's okay to say no in a ver- I have turned down many people in a very nice way. Yeah. That's true. She turns me down all the time. But it's nice. Yes. And I'm like, I stay married to her. Because I'm like, man, that's kind of my thing. Yeah. She's like, "I'm gonna go have sex with other people," and like, "I have sex with you." I'm like, " Okay." That's hot.

56:13 Ah. Take a video. Sorry, that took a turn. It did. Um, yeah, so like we said, stay vigilant. If you're new and you're coming in and you haven't, you haven't had these experiences, don't worry, you will. Ooh, I have another one. What? Talk about your experiences after your experiences with your partner. Oh, yeah. Because you may have seen something he did not see, or vice versa. Talk about your experiences. After you have an experience, step away for a second. Go and meet with each other. Talk about it, because things may have happened that you didn't like. Yeah. You know, like, I don't know, it's just, it's a good way for you to kind of, um, look at everything and- And call out your spouse if you see them, or your partners if you see them being predatory.

57:01 Yes. I did with this one. Yes. You know, when that, when that's- And I have with him … and she has with me. Um, you know, don't be afraid to call out your spouse. Don't slut shame people- Don't slut shame … uh, who, who maybe have verbalized a no or verbalized that they felt violated. Don't slut shame. Uh- Man, I, you know, I wasn't slut shamed, but I was definitely called out like, "Oh, if you don't want me, oh, you must not be bisexual." Oh, yeah. Yeah. The fuck? I don't wanna fuck you 'cause you're drunk, and you're ugly. But I mean, that's- Yeah … that's a thing. Yeah. That happens quite a bit. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So I don't know. Okay, so you're looking for somebody, and you wanna find a good environment, right?

57:42 Because the lifestyle is not a bad place, guys. Like, it's super, super fun. Yeah. And it's safe. You have to be safe. It can only go so far. Right. Right? So, like, clubs, platforms- Platforms … platforms can only go so far, but they do a lot of, um, verification. What platforms do we have that, that we know do verification? Well, you know, it's funny that you ask that because I actually had a couple reach out to me on TikTok, uh- Mm-hmm … earlier this week. I was on TikTok Live. Uh-huh. And they had asked something similar. They were brand new to the lifestyle. Oh, yeah. And they said, you know, "I really… We, we want to know that we're talking to real people," and this and that, you know.

58:25 And I said, "Verification is everything." Yes. So if, say, you're on Facebook and you're in that community, or somebody reaches out to you on Facebook and says, "Hey, we'd love to meet you guys," and they wanna talk to you, they wanna message you, verification via FaceTime or something- Yeah that you can tell that they're real people- Yeah … and that you might, uh, meet each other at some point. But also, there's, uh, places like SDC. Uh, you know, you've heard us talk about SDC a lot. Um, they are amazing. We love them. We, uh, are, are big part of that space- Mm-hmm … because of the safety, because of the verification that they do. Mm-hmm. Uh, one of our favorite, uh, apps is, uh, 3Fun- Mm-hmm … that we utilize, uh, when we do utilize it because they have verification on there.

59:12 Uh-huh. Uh, I think they have… They, like you have to be in a picture with your thumb up a certain way. I don't know. Yeah. It's a thing. Yeah. Um, I remember being a part of, like- Certain Facebook groups and Kik chats and things like that- Yeah where you could, you could join for about a day or two. Mm-hmm. But if you hadn't submitted any kind of, uh, video verification- Mm-hmm … you were gone. Mm-hmm. Um, and I remember… You know what's funny is I remember being a part of those groups early on and going, "God, I don't wanna do that." Mm-hmm. I don't know why. Mm-hmm. It made me feel uncomfortable, and really, I should have felt really comfortable with that.

59:52 Yeah. Yeah. Because, uh, verification is really what, uh, makes y- it, it makes you- Mm-hmm … feel safer. Mm-hmm. You know? And that's what it's all about. That's why we like this club so much, is 'cause we feel so safe. Mm-hmm. Um, and so that's… Anything that you can go to that has any kind of verification whatsoever, I'd say do it. All right, well, that was a great conversation. Before we let you go, if this episode hit home for you, do us a favor, hit that like button, subscribe if you haven't already. You gotta subscribe. Yeah. I know you that you see our stuff. Just hit that, hit that subscribe button. Yeah. And share this particular episode or any of our episodes with somebody in your circle who you think needs to hear it.

1:00:33 And, uh, by the way, a quick review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or even our own website goes a long way in helping other people find the show. It really does. And speaking of finding us, if you love hanging out with us live, we stream every single Thursday, 2:00 PM and 7:00 PM Central over on Full Swap Radio. Check them out. That's right, fullswapradio.com. We like them. We're also live ourselves- Yes … live streaming every Thursday night at 7:00 PM Central Time. It's completely free, straight from our own website at beyond-monogamy.com. And now, this last week, apparently it was a little choppy, so I'm still working some bugs, but come in, interact with us, come hang out, because we always got a, a lot of fun things to say.

1:01:20 Yes. But if you miss it or you wanna go back and rewatch it, a full replay video whenever you want, that's a Patreon-only perk. Oh, yeah. The full live stream replay only lives there. So if you want it on demand, that's where to find it. Oh, and while you're on the website, don't forget that we've got everything Beyond Monogamy there, so if you love us, you'll love it. Every past episode, the blog, the merch, because this lady has been very creative- Oh my goodness and she's been making some awesome stuff. Right? Yeah. I have. Yeah. She's been making some incredible stuff, and I hear that there might be a little bit of a Beyond Monogamy hat company happening. I don't know.

1:02:00 I don't know. So keep your ear to the ground, 'cause you're gonna wanna follow that. So you make sure and check that out at beyond-monogamy.com And of course, our confessional, baby Oh, yeah, I love that thing Yeah, that's 100% anonymous, so if you've got something on your chest about the lifestyle, like I always do- Yeah about the- That's true … ethical non-monogamy life- Mm-hmm … kink, the show, whatever. Whatever. Go drop it there. Yeah. We might even read it on the air. Yeah, as long as you say it's okay. Yes. Consent only. That's right. Now let's talk plans, because we've got a big one coming up. Uh, I think you may have heard of it in, uh, if you stayed this long in past episodes. Crazy Casba's Crazy Winter Nights 2027. Say that five times fast. It's happening in February, and you can lock in your spot right now, 'cause we're gonna be out there doing live shows.

1:02:46 You can come and hang out with us. Mm-hmm. Go to crazycasba.com. That link is in the show notes. Use code beyomono, B-E-Y-O-M-O-N-O, at the checkout and you get a good discount on that. Yes. Mm-hmm. And don't, don't think I forgot, it's my boo bear's birthday- It's what? … next Saturday. It's what? So guys- What, what we're going to be having a dinner, but we're also gonna be at Club Eden, so if you do go or if you wanna just show up there, we will have a couple of couches just for us and our crew. Oh, man. So- And I'm pretty sure there's gonna be an orgy in the middle beds, because, uh- Of course. Our friends are coming that love to have orgies. Yeah. So, yes. And every time they come, we end up having- Yes … a big orgy in the back.

1:03:27 Yes, so. Where everybody can see, so I'm not saying go over there to see an orgy, because you go in with expectations you just never know. Yes. But I'm saying there's some good chances. Yeah. So… So if you're there or if you're in the area, go to Club Eden. Remember, you have to sign up on their, um, site. You get a little membership. Yeah. Take care of everything, upload your driver's license, all that good stuff. Um- It's a thing … but we will be celebrating his birthday next Saturday. Yeah, and so if you do show up there, please, if you see us, come say hello, because we will not recognize you as listeners. No. But you can recognize us, and we love to meet our listeners. Yeah. We really do. We do. It's one of our favorite things. Yeah. Uh, so yeah, if you see us, definitely say hello.

1:04:08 Uh, outside of that, we appreciate you guys always joining us for another week and another episode, and we will see you guys next week. Bye.