Jealousy, Labels & Latino Love: Psychologist Jaime Gama on Ethical Non-Monogamy, Swinging vs. Poly, & Building Community

0:05 Alright y'all, before we dive in, a quick heads up. This show is raw, real, and definitely not rated pg. We're talking about adult themes, sexual content, and the kind of stuff you probably don't want blasting through your speakers at work or around your kits. So grab some headphones, pour your drink of choice and get comfy. Oh, and just so we're clear, we are not licensed therapists, counselors, or sex. Couches. Sex coaches. Sex coaches, not sex couches or just a couple of people sharing our lives, experiences and sexy adventures.

0:45 An ethical non-monogamy. So with that, pull up a chair and enjoy the show. And. Hello and welcome to Beyond Monogamy. I'm Adam. And I'm Pris. And today we've got a guest who is making huge waves in the world of ethical relationships, both monogamous and non monogamous. That's right. We're sitting down with Jaime Gamma, a psychologist and Gestalt therapist, the creator of Gotitas De Polimar, and an author whose book Si te duele, ahi no es is helping people rethink how they approach love and connection. That's right. Jaime's work has been published. He's led workshops and webinars, and he's built an online community of over a million followers across Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube, making complex ideas about relationships, accessible, funny, and deeply practical.

1:40 We're excited to dive into everything from breaking down romantic myths, to handling jealousy to what it really takes to build relationships rooted in clarity, honesty, and compassion. Nice. So, Jaime Gama, please welcome to Beyond Monogamy. Thank for Hi. Thank you so much for having me. I'm very excited. Yeah. I love that shirt, by the way. That's a great shirt. I know. So where I literally, I had a, I had a friend who was wearing, and I was like, I'm gonna steal this shirt from you. It's so cute. It's a really, and he literally took the shirt off his back and gave it to me. He was like, you get so much here, it's yours. I was like, oh, I love you so much. I love that. So it, that was, it's a great story. And You have a friend who literally gave them the shirt Yeah.

2:21 Off your back. She did. Yeah, I did. That's incredible. Where are you at right now? Tell us where you're, I'm in Chicago. I'm staying at one of my partners, uh, condo with his husband. Okay. I'm here for, still like, been here for like a month. A little over a month. Yeah. I stay here for a few more weeks. Okay. So, yeah. I love that. All right. Nice. Um, if you wouldn't mind, if you could just kind of, uh, give us a little bit of your background, like, uh, as far as. Your journey into ethical non-monogamy? Yeah. Kind of when it started and how you ended up here. Well, that's, that's, yeah. Um, well, you know, I always, when I started my first romantic relationships around 18 I was very monogamous.

3:07 Like, sex has to be with somebody who you love and whatever. But as I grew, I would start having these spring crushes I call them. Oh. And at the time, anytime I felt something for someone, I immediately panicked and I was like, no, this is wrong. If you feel things for someone else, it means you don't love your partner and you're, that's wrong. You don't, you don't do that. Right. Um, I didn't notice this until way later, but I always had this, these moments of every year, like it's rank thing, I don't know. And I started to go like ex, like doing a lot of research in non monogamy for my for for my bachelor's of psychology. And, uh, eventually I started dating someone who, well, I tried, I tried open relationships a little bit, but I was not, I don't know.

3:53 And I met someone who said, I'm polyamorous. And like, I don't know what that is and I don't care. 'cause it sounds horrible and it's like a devil. So I'm not, I'm not doing that. And I said, if you wanna be with me, you would be monogamous. We might might open the relationship down the road a little bit, but that's all I can offer. And he was like, that's fine. I can totally you monogamous with you. I'm like, okay, let's do it. And we were monogamous for like a year and a half and then a year and a half into it, we started exploring like monogamish, like we would open it to, we put, we would have sex with people together, only together. Okay. It was great. We had a great time. It was, yeah. Beautiful how we grew together. And it took like six years, a little over six years until we met the first person who would get us into this whole mess and.

4:39 I was very much like, I okay if it was, I didn't know better. Like I judged myself. I was like, nobody can fall in love. If you fall in love. This is over. I told him, oh my goodness. The third guy, and of course who fell in love first, but I didn't know. I didn't know. So one day I wake up and I'm talking to my partner at the time, and he is like, you do know you're in love with him, right? I'm like, no, I'm not. I don't do that. And I was like, oh wait. I am in love with him. I don't know what to do with this. And at the time I was doing my master's, I started my master's in psychotherapy and I was like, any other project? So just talk about pull Marie, why not that smart?

5:20 And I started learning about that's, well, I needed it. And then, when I started looking into it, I joined this Facebook group in Spanish from Mexico, which I will never reveal that name of that group. Hopefully, maybe that's okay. And it's just I always, always want to, and I said, I'm feeling very jealous. I'm starting out. I don't know what, what to do. And I had this whole thread of people saying that I was, I don't know, they just, they a insult me. They said that I was being controlling and toxic and codependent. And I'm like, oh, I guess they're right because they know and I don't. Mm-hmm. Until eventually I got to the podcast multi, I dunno if you know them, they're incredible. Yes, they do. And they have a PAT community.

6:00 And I joined them and it was so compassionate and beautiful and wonderful and I was like, I'm not a monster. It's a time feelings. And I thought, I need this content in Spanish just for me, you know, like if I, if there's another me anywhere that needs this. So I started like sharing information on Instagram. Until the pandemic. Mm-hmm. And then my, my manager, my who's my partner at the time, he said, why don't you share what you think? And I was like, nobody cares what I think you wanna know about authors and people who have experienced things. He's like, give it a shot, and here we are. And there you are. Yeah. You hit a few nails on the head.

6:43 It's hard for when we're Latinos and it's not something that is very present within the Latino community or it's not spoken of. Right. But if you have a Sancho over San, that's just different. Right. Yeah. And, and you know, that's, that's something that we ran into a lot. We didn't when we opened up and we became poly. Yeah. I remember because we're from South Texas initially when we, when we became poly, and I remember being out there and being on the apps and having women tell me, I would rather you cheat. Then have it out in the open. Yeah. Wow. And I didn't hear that from one, but two, but it was about three or four different women that told me that.

7:28 Wow. And I thought, I am in the wrong town. Like this is not, you know, it's like my wife is saying it's okay and you guys are telling me I gotta hide it. I don't, that's not cool. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, oh, well that's crazy. That's playing with life right there because. A Latina, I'm gonna stab you if you cheat on me, but then I'll let you, I'll let you go have sex with whomever, but I wanna know who it's isn't that nice? Yeah. But you know, that's, that's really where we struggled was Yes, it was. We, we wanted to find others, a group. Yeah. You know, that, that we can really, you know, we can all kind of understand each other and, you know, several of us come from the same background, that sort of thing.

8:13 It's just easier to understand and get along. Mm-hmm. That's very true. Yeah. And so we looked for that. Uh, when we were poly, we looked for that kind of community and being so close to the border, we figured we could find and we didn't. We did not. We, we absolutely did not because it seemed like the pushback was, uh, you know, obviously our people are very rooted in. The religion in the Catholic religion most times. Yeah. And uh, that really just kind of, I think cheating is more acceptable. Yes. You can go to church and you can confess those sins and it's okay.

8:56 And do it again on Monday. That's right. They have a weekly so you can just renew your That's right. That's right. But you know, that, that was the, the pushback that we had almost found. And so when with your situation, I, I would assume you, you found the same kind of pushback. I did actually, my master's, uh, research or my, the point of my thesis was to find out what helped gay men who identified as polyamorous figure it out. And I thought it was, it would be like the cons, the constructing masculinity or finding out communication, but it turned out it was community. Finding community was the moment they actually were felt free and to explore.

9:37 And it was the same case for me. Okay. And in Mexico it was really hard for me to find a community or people who were open to exploring that were not in this, like better than, like holy than Dao I know how to do polyamory. Right. Which I always said is, it's, it's in my book, one of the things that I say is that I believe there's only one myth of love, which is thinking that there's one way to love for everybody. Mm-hmm. And all the other myths come from that. Mm-hmm. And what's funny is there's a lot of radical polyamorous or non-monogamous people who will go, no, monogamy is wrong because they'll tell you how to love, but you have to do poly this way, or you're wrong. And I like, it's the exact same thing. You're doing the exact same message. So I had to explore or find other communities.

10:18 In the end, I met who was one of my satellite partners at the time. I call him himself a partner. Uh, he's, we have different kink relationship, but it's, you know, that's, and. When I met him, he had his probably kill, I'm gonna say it's about 15 to 20 people. Oh, okay. And like of course they're all together. It's mostly like, you know, independent partner Oh, gotcha. Partners. Mm-hmm. But I was fascinated since Sunday family dinners, there were like 15, 20 people coming to dinner. Oh, wow. And we were all connected somehow. Beautiful. You know, we would find like, you are this person's partner's, partner, partner. And you'd be like, yeah. So we're like, like grand, grand meta marks.

10:59 Uh, and even like now here in Chicago, I still, I, I still have them. And to me it feels like a family. You know, I was never a family person. Right. And this feels like a nice family that is there for me. So finding a community of people I can talk with about these things and be like, well, have I seen meta more? And someone says, yeah. I'm like, you're my people. I feel so safe with you. I love that. Get me all ready. Yes, exactly. So you're, you're a therapist, right? Yeah. So from a a therapist perspective, how do you feel that people navigate the difference between fantasizing about non-monogamy and actually living it out?

11:40 Not well. No. Not well at all. No. The thing, and I blame the media, of course, I, uh, I don't blame the media, but a lot of people, what we see in me in media is that, uh, polyamory is a throuple like a triad. Correct? Yeah. And that is the most complicated configuration of polyamory. I always say people think it's like a monogamy plus one. When it's hand relationships to take care of it's not just three people, it's how each person relates to each other and how each person relates to the other two as a couple. So a lot of people come to me, they're not anthrop, and they, I don't know what's happening. I'm like, well, how's your relationship as a metamore? Two, your partners as a relationship.

12:21 Not as like to I don't know Rob and Bruno, but you have to connect with them when they are a couple. So that's one relationship you have to nurture. And then they have to do the same with you. And then what about your relationship with yourself? Yeah. You need that time too. Yeah. And then every, it's so much and people think it's, it's the first thing they try and it explodes. Like it's just, I'm not saying it doesn't work. People who understand what it is, I make it work. Yes. It's not monogamy plus one. Yeah. Uh, I get a lot of that. Okay. I get a lot of, uh, hierarchy. I have very particular opinions of hierarchy. My, my partner here in Chicago is married. Okay.

13:02 And of course there is a, uh, like a grand scheme of hierarchy that we cannot avoid. Sure. If there's legal things and couples privilege that we cannot avoid. 'cause it's not. Something we could change. Correct. That hierarchy is beyond the power, but in the, the hierarchy, in the relationship. That's what I have issues. Like if they were to decide my relationship with my partner without my consent or my saying anything, to me that's dehumanizing and objectifying. No, it is. I mean, people, yeah. Right. Yeah. And the thing is I tell people because they're like, well, yeah, but I'm protecting my relationship. They're like, how are you? And the thing is, you are creating a, a, a problem and you are setting the precedent that Yes, someone is more important than someone else.

13:48 Yeah. So you have evidence that yes, it could be you, someone could change like the relationship with you because they like someone else better. You're confirming that information. Yeah. And secondly, it's not gonna make you feel better. Yeah. Because you're thinking about, I feel like that's, that's what happened to us. Yeah. I was, I felt like I was a higher power. And I was a higher power over his girlfriends and I was a higher power. So I totally, I can relate to that and I would always ruin his relationship. I'd be like I should have the one for you. Oh yeah. No, and we, we talk about it openly, you know, I it now, but yeah, we've come to terms with what it was that's for sure. Something that can't be changed and Yeah. And my brain, I was just like, what? This one's mine.

14:29 He, I am exactly. I am above them, everybody. So, yeah, but I mean, I'm sure you get, it's, it's, and she's a work in progress, she's always, aren't we all, she's always learning more and more and, and she's, she's come a long wages since we've, uh, started the podcast, Hey, Polly person I haven't gotten in my brain that I understand how it works. And I, I love that we have lots of friends that are poly and it's so beautiful to see how that relationship really works for them. I just don't, my mental state isn't there, and I can be 100% honest that. That relationship wise, I cannot share. Um, I can share him friendship wise and I can share him sexually, but my relationship is just, I don't know.

15:15 I think I'm just so controlling in that, that I want him all the time, you know? And it is, I'm very, I'm a very controlling person, and so it's like, I just want him with me. That's true. It is true. Anyway. Okay. I don't, I don't, I don't consider myself poly No. You know, for, for all the things that I, I, I don't think I don't, it's not my identity. Okay. I feel more, more like, I'm non-monogamous. Okay, sure. It's like when you talk about people, like straight men who have sex with men, and it's like, they're not, their identity is not being gay. Like being gay is more than just touching someone else's genitals. Like it's the identity. It's a community, it's a, it's history. And yeah, perme polyamory is not an identity, but non monogamy is, I have partners who are polyamorous.

16:00 Like I know, okay, this what I was talking about. Like, he's poly. That's, that's who he is. Mm-hmm. It's part of how he connects with people. It's very easy for him to do this. For me to require a little more work. I am, I'm okay with it. I can do it. I enjoy it. Once I get it, I don't identify with it necessarily. Yeah. So I get, I get that part. Yeah. Now I find, I find that interesting. Hi man. I, I have a quick question with that, and I don't know how quick it is actually. But we've had this discussion because she's always said when it came to dating, you know, she's not a poly person, et cetera, et cetera, but we have a girlfriend that we date. It's romantic. Get that. So what we, but who we, but what we realized was, yeah.

16:40 Oh, hang on a second there, honey. What we realized was, was that it was labels. Okay. Yeah. Uh, and so that's where we started, talking about how, okay. We don't need labels. We are non-monogamous and that is what it is. And we don't, and we don't have to call it anything else. I mean, I can write it down in my journal however I need to. Yeah. But, but you know, I mean, realistically it, what it comes down to is, is some people really embrace the labels and some people really push it away. Yeah. Now, as far as, as not only from somebody who's living the life, but also from a therapist standpoint, how do you feel about labels in this?

17:27 I love labels. Yeah. I love blah blah labels. I'm very artistic. If I could label the world, I would, it just being like being clear is so happy. But I think the issue is I love it. How we, we, we confuse molds with labels all the time. Sure. And that's a big issue. Okay. Uh, I, I was dating some, my, my manager actually today, uh, who was a part of the time when I started dating, I said, I would like to be your boyfriend. He said, I don't like boyfriend, like the word boy. I don't like that word. And I said, okay I don't know what to do now. Um, and I said, well, what, what? Like, what do you offer? Like, what are you comfortable with? And he said, well, I wanna share my life with you. I want to like, you know, have sex with you, but I also wanna be friends and I wanna be like, love you and prepare my family.

18:11 And I'm like that's a boyfriend to me, but it's okay if you don't want that label. But I need a label. I need to know what to call you and what to call me and what to call us. Yes. And at the time he's vegan, so he had made me a vegan hamburger. Okay. And my other partner said it was, it was a fake burger. So, uh, he spelled it wrong. It was like a bad hamburger or not bad. It was like a, like a er. It was really good. So I said, what if you are my amor geso, which is like a burger in Spanish. And he is like, yeah, we can Betos. Let's do that. So we were not boyfriends. We were Borgs. Am Boto. Yes. Of course I said, however, like to the outside world, we will probably say boyfriends.

18:54 'cause it's like, it saves us a lot of work. Explain it mostly. Yeah. But here's the thing. Boyfriend can be a, a mold in that if there is a preset list of characteristics for a boyfriend, and I have to make sure my relationship fits that and cut parts of that relationship and our identity to fit that. That's a mold. A label is like a buffet. You get to a buffet, you see the shrimp and you're like, oh, well this is shrimp. And you have like to, you label what's in it. Like there's garlic and there's lime and whatever. If they change the dish and they bring out chicken and you are stubborn, and you're like, no, no, no, no. This says shrimp.

19:35 You take a mold of shrimp and you cut shrimp and it's not gonna work. You take the label and you rewrite it. So labels help us understand what we're doing and what we want and what we're looking for. We have to understand that we write the labels and we can rewrite the labels. If we find a mold that was preset, that might not be great for some people. For some things are, for example, you're saying, I'm a therapist. That's a label that helps, you know what I do in general, right? Mm-hmm. If it's like, oh, but you are a, it's a terrible sample, because I don't, I can't think of a mold for that, but you know, you get the point, even, even in gender, like you're saying you're a woman as a label, you have to look this way.

20:16 Mm-hmm. Right. Right. As a as a, as a, as a label. It's a mold. Yes. As a label. You can make it whatever you want. Yeah. Poly hammer is the same. I am. I don't feel Polly. It doesn't fit me. It's like a sweater. It feels like it's too big. And that's what I say. I'm like, I, I know. I, I'm the one who eventually called her a girlfriend, but I was like, it's, we're not Polly though. We're, we're just not a throuple. This is just a, she's just who she is and what we do, and then it is what it is. But yeah, I like the little labels. It's helpful. Sometimes you can come with a new label for yourself. I just, I, I, I adapt with whatever she says. There you go. He's just happy. We talk about it and I'm like, okay, whatever you want, honey. That's, at this point, everything you're saying is like, Adam, you're gonna think that the person, I just like that you guys like this episode.

20:59 I'm gonna agree with everything you're saying to convince him. So, but it's not true. It's on the book. It's all written. I've said this before. How do you, um, how do you help couples who feel guilty for wanting novelty or kink outside their partnership? It's very sweet. Yeah. It's heartbreaking. Yeah. I had to go through that at some point, and one of the things that I found was my sex drive has always been lower than my partners. Mm-hmm. And I've also felt guilty that I can give them what they need. Mm-hmm. And I feel guilty that I'm jealous that they wanna do with someone else. So it's like, I'm guilty anyway. Yeah. Yeah. So a big part of it is understanding one, rejection is healthy, rejection is good.

21:44 And rejecting something off you doesn't mean I'm rejecting you. I was talking to one of my partners about this the other day because he was, I don't know, he asked, but what if we're at, at the beach with your other partner? Mm-hmm. And you say, and I tell you I wanna do this with you. And you say, Hmm, I don't wanna do it right now. Or I don't, I don't want, I, I don't want to do, to do this with you. And then you go with your partner and you do that with him. Why would you do that? Yeah, like I have the worst answer. You're not gonna like this answer, but the answer is because I wanted to do it with him and not with you. And that doesn't mean you are less or I don't love you. It my love for you doesn't depend on me choosing you a hundred percent of the time.

22:25 And hearing that is awful. And it's, it's, it's shocking. It is. I mean, I guess it's the way it's put. And as adults, I guess you can, so like what we, he and I do is we do that where we're like, okay, I'm gonna tell you something that's gonna be really uncomfortable. And it's always for me, 'cause I get uncomfortable about everything, but I want him to tell me everything. And so, yeah. I totally get it. No, I, I don't, I think I would be so crushed. Like, well, and, but the thing is the more you build on this, uh, yeah. And it shouldn't hurt. Like my whole thing. My whole thing is if it hurts, that's not it. Growth. Oh, I like that. Never happens through pain. It does not.

23:06 Growth creates trauma. Uh, I'm sorry. Pain creates trauma. Pain creates suffering. Pain creates bad experiences. Growth happens being uncomfortable in discomfort, in novelty. If I know that I'm doing something new and I'm uncomfortable, there's a chance I might like it, might dislike it, um, I might just get used to it and feel comfortable. And it can push more if it's hurting. It's like in sex. If you're doing something in sex and it hurts, you don't go do it harder, so it stops hurting. You don't do that. You need to stop, leave it up, change persistent positions. Accept you don't want that thing to go in there and it's, it should move on. Yeah. In this case, it's the same.

23:47 You know, like if, if this is painful, you need to stop, pause, and then see what needs some lube. In this situation, for example, if I'm not ready to accept that my partner can choose to do something with someone else because they wanna do it with them and not with me. Mm-hmm. Maybe first I need to figure that out with my partner. Create a sense of security and safety that I don't need you to do everything with me to feel safe. And that's where couples get stuck a lot. 'cause they'll try to make the jump without knowing what makes them feel safe in the relationship. That makes sense. Yeah. That's where we went wrong.

24:28 Are you recording? You're recording? We all, yeah. Okay. Yeah, no, that, that makes, um, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, no, I mean, um, we, so you had mentioned to us kind of how you had gotten into it. It was very similar for us in that we were, um. We were in the lifestyle and somebody had actually told us it was this couple friend of ours, and they had said, well, we're polyamorous. And I said, well, what's that? Tell me, tell me everything I gotta know. Run, run away. That's, and so send yourself they gave me the, uh, the beautiful trailer of it, which is, oh, well, we get to date others.

25:10 Oof. Outside of the marriage. And that's the way it was explained. A pyramid scheme. A pyramid scheme. Thank you. That's just, that's fraud. And so that's kind of the way it was put to me. And I was like, oh, wow. Well, that sounds, that sounds interesting, mm-hmm. And, uh, you know, I've always been a very loving person. I love my friends, you know, um, before we even considered this sort of thing, I was like, you know, I love my friends. Like I have love for everybody. And I don't know, I just. Makes sense, you know, because this is the way I was when I was in high school. You know, this is like, that kind of thinking is something's wrong with me because I'm in a relationship and I'm looking at others and I'm lusting after others, you know?

25:54 And, and I felt horrible about it. Mm-hmm. But I didn't know that non-monogamy was what it was called, yeah. Um, and so this was expressed to me about polyamory. And, and so we had talked about it and I did my research for a good while as much as I could. And then I was like, you know what? Let's give it a shot. What the hell? And yeah. None of it went well. Oh, no, that's normal. But, but for obvious reasons. I mean, like, I, I don't, I don't ever equate it to be a failure because we learned. So much from it. Yes, we did grow from it. So that's the, we grew a lot from it. And, uh, you know, we're still growing every day even, a as it sits now because, uh, when we stopped being poly, we just settled on the lifestyle.

26:44 And then as the lifestyle went on, we were able to you know, get more and more comfortable with doing separate things and getting more comfortable with, you know, I have a friends with benefits that I see, or whatever, you know, and, and now we're here, you know, so every day is a kind of a growth period. Yeah. But you know, as, as I'm getting into that, we have teetered, tottered, the swinging polyamory line, and in our community we see that often. We're seeing it more now. Yeah. Yeah. Um, do you see swinging in polyamory as part of the same relational, uh, relational ethics conversation? Or do they kind of require the.

27:25 Different tools for consent and communication. Like, are they aligned? Are they relatively different? It feels like when you talk about autistic people and sters and polyamorous people and nom know, it's just like, there's no Venn diagram. It's just a big circle. Like people just label each other differently sometimes. I know that swinging started off being very sexist. Like it was very much like, I'm lending you my wife, so you can lend me yours. Right? Um, but it was that very beginning of the whole movement, right? Mm-hmm. From what I understand now, it's more, it's become more like a not as hierarchical notice as, uh, as gender focused. So, again, to me, that's the beauty of labels. If you wanna call it swingers and that works for you, go for it.

28:10 Mm-hmm. Right. If you wanna call it polyamorous and that works for you, let's do it. Just sit down and talk to the person in front of you and say, Hey. I think this is what I'm talking about. I have certain people come to me and be like I wanna open our relationship. I'm like, okay, I'm gonna ask you two to write down like separately what that means. I, one of them be like, well I wanna have a boyfriend. You was like, I wanna have hookups. I'm like, they're not the same thing. So you need to talk to each other. Uh, the thing about swinging from what, like, there's more of a community. Like there's no community for like open relationships per se. Mm-hmm. Right? So, and polyamory is a different community, right? So I think it's more about how to relate to each other.

28:52 Are you trying to make. A molecule to play board games. 'cause that's all polyamorous about. I just wanna find enough people to play board games every night. Or used just fingers because you wanna have a happy dog because you wanna do the same thing, but without clothes all the time. I mean, I think that's the other thing, not you just said that I think maybe polyamory to me is not, it's not central. Central. It's like, it's not sex centralized. I was just gonna ask you a question about that. Yeah, yeah. Like many swingers say that it, many swingers say that it's just sex. Like if there's no feelings, it's like, that's all. It's just, just, and that's the way, honestly.

29:33 Yeah, that's the way I think it's, it's swinging. Yeah. It's just sex. Like he's just gonna go have sex with somebody. It's like, like it's not gonna fall in love with them. And I feel like when it was Polly and we labeled it that, that, that's exactly what I thought. So, and I always thought there are two different things because. Paul isn't a lot of sex. Right? It's more, oh, it's a lot of talking about sex. Yes. I mean, it's a, it's a lot of talking Helo. Swingers. It's a lot of talking. If you have a bed, we're good. We're there. Well, I mean, again, it comes, it depends on, I was thinking about swingers. 'cause like I read and I've heard it's more like a community space now. And they actually they do get together. They do make friendships, they do make relationships. But yes, stringing is more sex focused.

30:13 Okay. Yeah. Polyamory does not require sex. And when I define polyamory, I'm always very careful saying like it's romantic. Like simultaneous romantic relationships where everybody involved is aware, but they don't need to have sex. There's ace people, right? Asexual people can enjoy polyamory. It's a great option for asexual people. A romantic people can also do that. So it's more how you wanna build a relationship. I like that. See, you should have given me his book before we started doing poll and I probably would've been like, oh no. Well, yeah, but you, it takes you while I was, I was messing up right there with you. The same experience at the time. I, I got chapter eight and I'm like, oh yeah, I know.

30:57 I feel you. Yeah. I found it on Audible, so I was excited. Yeah, yeah. Now you've written about autonomy and consent and relationships. Yes. How does that apply in sexual encounters with multiple people, like group play, threesomes, play parties, you know? Well, yes. Uh, to me, I'm a kinger. I'm happy to be a kinger. I'm not looking back. I'm autistic. I'm happy to be autistic. Like all these things to me are like just so great, except I'm in a community where we talk about everything and really has to be consensual. And that also means that I am not brave to my instincts and feelings.

31:37 So I can actually not eat the marshmallow. There's there, I don't know if you noticed, this is like a marshmallow test where they had children sit in a room with a marshmallow in front of them and they were like, if you can wait for an hour or something, uh, I'll give you two marshmallows, but you cannot eat that one. So it was tech like how like these children had this ability to postpone ratification and some of them will actually eat the marsh. Someone would wait for the al. So it's like you have to fight, be like against the, do I want the pleasure now or more pleasure later? So to me that's like the marshal test for non-monogamous people is yes, you have the person you wanna have sex with in front of you. And yes, there's an agreement with your partner, you know, would be iffy here, are you going to eat the marshmallow now or do you want two marshmallows later?

32:29 And of course the fear is, but this one's gonna go away. Yes, but. It's a marshmallow. You'll find another one. Let it go. Another all your life doesn't exist. Never. And consider and considering group play and stuff, one of the things that I've found is just it, I, I don't know, like sex is such a greatest topic and I can't talk about that a lot on Instagram 'cause I get, you know Yeah. Right. Algorithms and I can't, it's an open it can we, apparently you can. Yeah. You just talk about it here all you want. And one of the things that people say is like, what if my partner does something that I'm not comfortable? I'm like, that's great. That's, it's don't, it's a great time to explore and experiment and be like, Hey, the first time I did it, I, I told my partner, I don't want you to kiss anybody.

33:10 I can't stand it. Like you can have I can't stand it. Take a be dip inside you and put their fists in your ear, but don't kiss them. Yes. And the first time that he came over was like, well, I wanted to kiss him, but I didn't. To me it was one, I have evidence that you actually care about this disagreement and you want to meet it and you care about me too. When he said. But I really want to, I also had this experience of we are in a safe space for you to express your needs and to have a conversation about them. And then I was like, okay, that's nice. And then I said, okay I'm willing to experiment once and then we can check again another experience. Where is this, this is a great, like, safety building exercise.

33:51 And then he went over, he kissed someone and he came back to check how I felt. And I said, I've never felt this angry and jealous with you, ever. I need you to go do it again. It's amazing. I love it. This like, I, I don't even know how to explain how this energy has changed. I, yeah. I always said that like the butterflies in the stomach that uncomfortable feeling like, oh my god, I could really get upset about this. But I like it. It's a rollercoaster. Yeah, it is. So being on a rollercoaster is your brain. You're gonna die. Your brain's like, oh, I'm gonna attack. But in a safe space, you're gonna enjoy a rollercoaster.

34:33 If you're not safe, if you are falling off a car off a cliff, you would not enjoy that. And it's the exact same experience with the exact same chemical reactions, but in the rollercoaster, you know, you're safe. It is the same thing if I'm seeing my, my partner being someone else, but I feel safe, I feel important, I feel chosen. I feel like I have agency in the whole thing, and I can take care of myself. I can enjoy the moment and then say, you know what? This wasn't for me, but our connection is not broken. Yeah. It's hard for me, but yes, it's, it's, it's really it. It takes time. It takes time. Yeah. Yeah. Um. And Yeah, it's just, it's, it's, it's, yeah.

35:14 Trial lawyer, it's, I mean, I am getting a little better, so, oh, yeah. No, she's, she's come an amazingly long way. Like she's done great. Yeah. And Well, good for you. She's always said that I've been six steps ahead of her in all of this, you know, 'cause I've never really, I, I don't get jealous. You know, I've, I've never really thought, oh, oh, if somebody makes me laugh, forget it. Forget it. Yeah. No, but she's gotta stay away. But if she's jealous, and that gets me bad. 'cause I'm like, I want you, I feel like jealousy sometimes is very hot. It's like, oh yeah, you, you don't wanna lose me. Right. I'm always jealous about, I mean, obviously I don't want to lose you but my children. So it's like, I mean, I want you to enjoy. Yeah. I'm getting there. Happy I'm getting there, you know, at some point.

35:56 I love it. I love it. You know, being married is so fun. 'cause we have lots of labels too. Yes, of course. Labels are great, but, but my labels are very, they're, they're a lot of four letter words. Yes. Uh, let's see here. Which one? Let's do the, that one. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. You wanna go ahead? I do. Okay. Help. So do you think jealousy and arousal can actually exist side by side? Like being turned on by your partner's Pleasure, but also feeling threatened by it. So like, we just went over something like that. So, of course it's, it's, it's a, it's a really Christmas horror movie. It's, it's understanding that jealousy is a feeling like, like anger, like happiness, yeah.

36:38 Like sadness and all the all emotions have a function. The issues when we mislabel them and we say, no, they are toxic, they're mean, they're bad. And the only way we understand jealousy, it's like when people say, I'm not jealous. I always feel like they're saying, I don't feel what I'm supposed to feel when I'm jealous. There you go. Yeah. And it's more because I, I I, you have felt insecure at some point. You have felt afraid at some point, but I, there's feelings you've had, they just don't look like jealousy because you don't label them jealousy. Yeah. Jealousy is either fear, sadness, or anger behind an idea of this is not a safe space for me to communicate it, and it's a threat to my relationship.

37:26 That's jealousy. So basically what it's telling you is I need safety. But if I don't know how to express it, it's going to yell at me and be a problem. Yeah. Now arousal is energy, it's aggression it needs this, it's like attack movement. So anger and jealousy can be very close together, especially when there's no safe space for me to communicate. Mm. But if I do, then I connect with happiness, which has energy with affection, which is connection. And then instead of fear, security, I feel safe. I feel secure. And then this jealousy becomes this desire for the other person that is like, yes, I belong with that person.

38:08 Not to that person, with that person. And I'm enjoying this moment. I like that. That was well put. Hey, man, I could listen to you talk all day. Like, that was, that was really like, I was zoned out. I was like, wait, where are we now? That was really good. Yeah, that's, but, you know, getting into it, uh, we've been talking for a little bit now and, and I'm curious I have not heard you refer to the word compersion yet. I know that compersion I think it has its roots in, in. Polyamory, doesn't it? It does. It comes with polyamory and, and now we're, we're starting to see it more in the, uh, in the lifestyle as well. And I've heard it in different aspects.

38:51 What is compersion and you know, how, how, what kind of tools could you give to a, a client? I guess that, that goes from jealousy to compersion. Compersion is the rainbow. The more you chase it, the more it's gonna go farther from you. You're never gonna get it. You're never gonna catch it. Compersion people could think of, compersion is the opposite of jealousy. It is not. Compassion is the, when I enjoy seeing my partner, having a romantic moment with another partner, not sexual, romantic. Like when I see them sharing a, a loving moment of romance and I feel joy, that's compression.

39:35 First time I felt that I was, uh, with this first person we had and my partner at the time, I saw them. Like they were holding each other and they were looking at each other and there was so much love. They were so happy. And I was like, I love those two men, and they're so happy and they're making each other so happy. Yeah. And I felt this like energy in my body and like this warmth in my heart, and it was so great. And then at the same time I was like, but they're not unhappy with me. They're not looking at me. And that's the other thing, jealousy and compression can coexist. 'cause they're, they're more than, you can have more than one feeling look actually inside out. Um, I don't use that word a lot because people use that as, as a weapon.

40:17 They'll say, oh, you know, you're not good at polyamorous. You don't feel compassion. Oh, you feel jealousy. No. You should feel compassion. No. Compression is something that you can feel but you don't need for polyamory. Like, as long as I feel at peace, like right now, I'm fine with my partners being with other partners. I don't like, it's fine. I like that they're happy. It makes me happy. They're happy. Do I feel compassion all the time? No, but I don't need it. Again, don't insert the tool is not the opposite of jealousy. And if you don't feel it, you're not that, that polyamorous person. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, I find that people really villainize jealousy. Yeah. Do you know jealousy is so bad, and if you feel jealousy, you're a horrible, horrible person and you can't be in this lifestyle, or you can't be in this Yeah.

40:59 This kind of way of life. When I tell somebody that I'm a jealous person, they're, they always give me, especially women, they gimme that look like, oh, just the way I am. Yeah. I'm just a, I am, I'm a jealous person. I've always been like that. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, we've, it didn't stop anything. You know, it's just, Here's the secret that I tell my clients. Whenever you wanna work through jealousy or with jealousy, substitute word jealousy with anger, fear, or sadness, magic, suddenly there's no stigma. Suddenly it's valid. Suddenly you can work with it because jealousy, the label is very ined with thin. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. That's for sure.

41:39 Love it. So are there, are there predictable dynamics? Like who takes the lead or who hangs back or who gets overwhelmed that you see across with your, your clients, like their stories? Does, like when we were Polly, I, I would actually dis disconnect myself and kind of stay back. I wouldn't like, engage. Yeah. And that, that was an issue for me because, you know, she would, she would kind of push me towards them and she would remove herself and it just got very awkward and uncomfortable. Yeah. Yeah. You know, so like, do you see that a lot? Yes. There's, there there's trends.

42:19 Yeah, There's things that I'm like, sometimes I'll see clients send me a little like blurb of they, what they wanna talk about. I will. So reading, I'm like, oh yeah, no, I know this story. I know where this is gonna go. You're fine. It's, it's, and it's not that everybody's the same, but we do follow patterns. Mm. One of the patterns is one of the partners is very excited about Dommy and the other one is very not excited about Dommy. Yeah. And the one's very excited is like, it's so easy. I'll do anything, whatever you want, but do it now. Mm. And the other one will be like, but I don't really wanna do it, but I'll do it for you. But I'll resent you the entire time. Yeah. And I'll put like a stop now, make it difficult and I'll do obstacles and then I'll make you feel guilty. But then I feel D make you feel guilty.

43:00 And the other one will feel guilty of being happy. So they'll try to force the other person to also be like, open. So you'll be like, I met someone. You don't have to meet someone too. Yeah. And they'd be like, I don't, I'm not interested. No, no, no. You have to meet too. Otherwise, I feel guilty. You just read my biography. That was our, that was our whole life right there. Yeah. It's like, I think you were sitting in our, our bedroom the entire time. Yeah, that's scenario A, there's like a whole alphabet of patterns. That was incredible. I was like, holy crap. Are we talking to a psychic over here? That was, that was amazing. That was good stuff. It's actually, I'm, I'm psychic. That's, I was like, wow, thats that profiling. He got me on that one.

43:43 Now I have an interesting question here for you. How, how do cultural pressures around performance in bed affect people entering in the lifestyle, especially men? Mm. I'll tell you how it affected me or how it affects me, because, um, I'm a Latino man. Yes, you are. And I feel like that married machismo, but no, it is, it's a, so again, I, I've always felt like my, my sex story is lower than my partners and I feel. I'm in disappointment, like, I'm not enough, I'm not good enough, and I have to get more sex. I wanna have one more sex. And because I can't do it, then I feel like, well, then they should be able to be with other people because clearly someone else. But that also reinforces the idea that, yes, I am a failure, and they may find someone who's not a failure and then be with them, which sucks.

44:32 And also that means that if my partner suggests they wanna meet someone else, the only possible reason is I am a failure. Mm. Right? Mm-hmm. So it's always gonna be, I'm gonna lose. This comes from the, that the only difference between friends and lovers sex when my relationship is based around the idea of sex. That's going to be the only pillar that matters. The only thing that's holding my relationship up and anything that touches it is it to be a big threat. So when people go from monogamy to non-monogamy, it's like, yes, but do you know what else makes your boyfriend your boyfriend, or your girlfriend? Or girlfriend? Because if it's the only thing, you gotta lose it. Culturally, of course, as men and Latino culture, at least we have to be the provider.

45:15 We have to be strong, we have to be lusty, we have to be horny all the time. We have to have like, be last a very long time and sometimes you don't want to. So like, since eight, I don't know. It's, it takes time. It takes a while. I had one of my partners, we, we have, we had a, um, a radar, which is a tool to book a monthly check-in. Many, many years ago, and he said, I need more sex with you. I said, yes, of course. No, totally. So at the time, we were having sex like once a week, more or less. And so the next month we had sex twice a week, and then the, the, the, the end of the month came and we're doing a chicken and he's like, so you agreed to this and it didn't happen?

45:59 What's wrong? I said, no, it didn't happen. We had sex twice a week. He said, that's nothing. I'm like, that's literally a hundred percent more than I was giving you. So what do you want? I said, well, I would like to do it every day. I was not gonna happen. Absolutely not gonna happen. But that also, I also realized that I am not used or I wasn't used or taught to talk about sex. So then I said, wait. What is sex to you? Because like penetration I cannot do every day. There's no way. Like it's just, no. Yeah. And having like rough sex, it's gonna be like an hour and a half every day. I wanna watch movies. I want to like lay down, play games at, I don't wanna just, yeah.

46:40 I wanna do other things. You wanna play board games? Yes, exactly. Play board games. I whole port, I'm doing it. I was like, well no, like oral or kissing or making out. I'm like, yes, do all that. The thing is that sometimes I feel like if I kiss you, you expect me to go further and I don't want to. And I was like, oh, we can talk about this. So I, these little moments, this few moments of this is what I want to give you and can give you. But again, rejection. I will reject you if you want more in that moment or we could talk about it. So learning to work with these cultural pressure also means I have learned to accept rejection from you and reject.

47:22 Wow. So that's the men aspect. Let's talk about the women. How do you help them, like, reclaim their sexual autonomy? And these, you know, without being guilty or feeling guilty or shame, is it, does it kind of work the same do you think? How cancel do you wanna get me? I'm not a woman. I can take, I can tell you my perspective from when I work with clients. Okay. Big disclaimer. I am not speaking not a woman for women. Yes. I'm speaking for, I'm not speaking for women, for all women, for any women. Just, just your, just your clients. Like how exactly I'm sharing from my experience with my clients mostly is being able to connect. With pleasure and agency.

48:03 You know, like women culturally are taught to not want sex. This is bloody and it's wrong. Or if they do want sex, they have to be very receptive. Like, what does the other person want? Or it's like, there's a lot of layers of guilt and prejudice that we have to go through in order to get to, you can enjoy your body and you can enjoy your life and you don't need to have sex. The same thing. We don't, you don't need to have sex with your partner to validate your relationship. Okay. It's okay, but now I have something to add to that. Do you have a lot of Latina clients? Yeah, I mostly see, uh, Latinos. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So we were raised, um, I am bisexual, but I didn't come out until I was much older.

48:46 Long story. But I, um, I was raised to be very submissive to my man. Mm-hmm. Now I am. I'm not, I mean, at home, like I always tell 'em in the bedroom, I'll be submissive to you however you want, but when we're outside of the bedroom, you know, hey, we're cleaning, we're doing all, you know what I mean? Like, we're not it's not him. Yeah. You know, but in bed it's all him. How do they, how do women, how do you help them like get past that? At least that, I mean, I know it's for men too, in, in the Latino culture, like when you're gay. No, but I understand. Okay. Like, how does No, I understand. How do you navigate that part? Like with your clients talking about sex?

49:26 Mm-hmm. I've found, I have found that issues with sex are very rarely about sex. Mm. It's more like what? It's like a symptom of the relationship. Because are you forcing it like what you're saying right now? Like, I'm, I'm submissive to you in the bedroom, but I am dominant to you outside. Okay. What is, what's this frontier? What's, what's happening? That's the context is not working. Yeah. And do you both enjoy this? And if you both enjoy it, go for it. Yeah. If you don't, how are we going to balance this? You know, like I, I have a very dominant personality in most of my life. And when I'm like in sexual context or kink context, I'm like, I don't wanna be a dom.

50:09 I just want someone to give me orders and tell me what to do and I'll be good. We hear that all the time. And it's hard. Yeah. But it's hard because I, I don't, it's a pattern that I have to fight against. Like, my immediate thing is like, I was talking to my, my, my, my Chicago, my partner Chicago with it, we're doing something and I'm like, no, no, I'll do it. And he's like, you said you want me to take care of you. I was like, how? Okay. It's the hardest thing I've ever done. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like, shut up, sit down and let someone else make your sandwich and cut it into little triangles. Mm-hmm. 'cause I want triangles in my sandwich. Like, oh, it's wonderful, but then like, how do I pay you back with my soul because you did something for me and I don't deserve it.

50:52 So there's like a lot of layers to that, I would say, concerning your question. Sex usually is a symptom of the relationship and the power exchange thing. It's definitely a cultural issue. Yeah. Right. And if he doesn't complain, I feel like it's all good. I complain all the time because he doesn't listen, he doesn't complain. Right. As she twists his arm. That's right. You can't see this, but I'm blinking in Morse code. Yes. Help me please. Now you've built your brand around mixing humor and deep wisdom. Uh, how, how important is humor when sex gets awkward?

51:35 It's, I hate it now. I trying, I just, I love it. Like, I think it's been hard for me because it's very vulnerable. Mm-hmm. Vulner, vulner, vulnerability and humor to me are very difficult to have coexist because I'm very, again, very artistic, very literal. So jokes can take a very dark turn for me. Yeah. But it's also important to make it light and realize that it's not the end of the world. So when you say, um, that I do my contact with humor, I love that because I have a lot of dad jokes that I think I don't only, I laugh at. Um, and I love that. And sometimes I'm like, I'm not kidding. It's just kinda so funny because I'm autistic. Like I'm just, yeah.

52:15 I say things like matter of factly because that's who I am. People're. Like, that's so funny. Like, okay. Yeah. But it is that, right? Like sometimes it's just, I wanna do this this way and it lightens the mood. It does. Like being able to say. I I'm just not gonna be inside you today 'cause it's not working. Yeah. Whatcha gonna do now? Whatcha gonna do now? Oh. I always make jokes during sex. You know, we, I find it, I mean, it's like, it's funny, you know, especially when like, the men don't work. Like when it's, they're just not getting it. You know? It's just not gonna work. And it's like, it's okay. Little dude can come out another time. You know? Like we can, it's fun because I don't want that guy.

52:56 It's, that could be reassuring. Yeah. Reassuring. Yeah. Want the men to feel Yeah. To feel bad. No, we, we're both very humorous. I do the high fives after. Everyone does a good job. She does. You know. Yeah. She brings everybody. See, I could, I should not have sex with you. No, dammit. Okay. There you go. No high fives no high. That's right. I'm gonna look to my partner next time. Just. You know, um, honestly, we, we had sex one time, very beginning, and it was very hard for me to orgasm and he made me orgasm and it was the best orgasm ever I can remember the day. And I was like, man, high five. 'cause that looks, I love that. Amazing.

53:36 Yeah, I love that. He was like, you high five me. I was like, well, it was good. I mean, how can I, how gonna tell you? I mean, I like the reassurance personally, so it works. Yeah, of course. Yeah. Otherwise, she's gotta fill out one of those little surveys and it's just a pain. Oh, I love that. Yeah. I, I would love that. A reviewing yelp. It's all digital now, so. Yeah. Now, what's the most surprising or out there sexual boundary you've seen a client or follower successfully negotiate? Oh I live in a different world. I, I was talking about this morning with one of my friends. I was talking about how, like, yeah, well if they're kinky, you're like, no, I'm not really kinky. You're, I'm into bondage and fisting and you know, water, sports, just regular stuff.

54:21 And I'm like, right. So when you say that, I'm like, okay, what's a, what's not their boundary? I don't even know. Like, it's just because again, to me, boundaries are all about what I, how I protect myself, right? Sure. Right. So it's, it's not how, how somebody else is going to act, but. I don't know. One of my favorites is I will not participate and I will just watch my fox. They love it and make me so happy and people freak out and like the third or the fourth or whoever will be like, doesn't he wanna join? I'm like, you have no idea. I am having a lot more fun than you two are. Yeah. I am winning here. Yes. I told our girlfriend, I was like, oh no, y'all, I can just sit here and have a bag of Doritos and drink my Dutch bros. I'm good.

55:04 It's great. I'm good. It's great. Great. Little, a little break every now and then. Yeah. Oh, I have one. Okay. I have one. And this is, this is personal experience. At the time I had a partner who we were op, we were close. He wanted to open the relationship and he said that he never used condoms with anybody ever. And he wanted me to know that before we opened the relationship. And I said, Ooh, I'm not comfortable with that. Let's talk about it. And he said, of course. There was very little like a yes no answer. And then he said, how about this? I will use condoms with you. And that broke my mind. So I'm like, that's not fair. I'm your boyfriend. Why do I get that?

55:46 And it's, it sucks in a way because it is a boundary and valid. Right. I'm like, you can have your sex life the way you wanna have it. Mm-hmm. And I, you are offering me an option. Yeah. Now the difference between that manipulation is not I was about to ask you. Yeah. So it depends on how you expect the other person to react or how, or what happens in negotiation. If I'm using this as a weapon to be like, wow, okay, well then, then you get the condom. How's that? Are you sure you wanna do this? And then that becomes a, a way to manipulate you. Yeah. But. I always come from an idea of compassion that we are all trying our best.

56:27 So I am not assuming that he's trying to manipulate me. That's his best choice. Now, what do I, that's then my s come in, am I okay with this? If not, then how am I gonna protect myself? What other thing can I ask him for? You know? And this is where creativity comes in. Mm-hmm. People think that boundaries stop the conversation and they're so scary. But when I know your boundaries and you know, mine, we can start exploring and playing and creating and finding other ways. Now, in the end, uh, we didn't open the relationship. We broke up, uh, for other reasons. So there's no end to that story. But I do wanna make a, a quick comment about this, uh, STIs. Yes, please. Because people say, what about STIs?

57:08 I'm like, a monogamy does not protect you from STIs. Mm-hmm. If you're a monogamous and you're listening. Please go get tested because a lot mono people have syphilis and other things that they don't know they have because they, you know, they have sex with condoms and then, no, not anymore because they love each other and then they break up and they repeat the process and they don't realize that they're having many unprotected sexual partners who don't test either. Yeah. Right. Um, I went to Berlin two years ago. Okay. And I went to a few places and I did things, and on the plane back, I was already planning on all the shots and pills and everything I have to take Yeah. All the tests I needed because I, for I for sure brought all the STIs in the world, invented new ones.

57:52 Like there's no one I came back, I got tested for everything. I had nothing. Nothing at all. And I was proposed. I was like, how's this happening? Information is very important. Mm-hmm. You know, like people who are in poly and in non monogamy, I'm gonna say everybody. Are more likely to be comfortable talking about testing, about, uh, status. About, uh, prevention, about, and people will call me, Hey, you know what? I just tested positive for this. Get a test. Yeah. Which is great. Yeah. They should, they should. I mean, yeah. And the two STIs that I've had wearing monogamy. So, uh, I mean, I'm just one person. Yeah. But I see this all the time. So if you're monogamous, get tested.

58:34 If you're a polyamorous or non-monogamous, also get tested and remember there's doxy pep, there's prep, there's pep, there's lots of things you can do to enjoy your sex life. Mm-hmm. Safely and restore, uh, wherever your risks. Yes, absolutely. Well put. Uh, well, we got one more and then, uh, yes. We're gonna go into our outro and then as soon as that's done, we're all done there, so, okay. Uh, we'll, we'll go from you want to, you wanna do this last one? You can do. No, you do. Okay. So. If you could design one universal workshop for both swingers and poly folks. Yes. What's the one? Sexual ethic you'd want them all to walk away with? Compassion. Compassion.

59:15 Compassion to me is, so I have a, my model of ethical relationships has four pillars. Agency, honesty, consent, and compassion. Compassion has three meanings. One is assuming good faith. Two is taking everybody's wellbeing into consideration when I make a choice. And three is assuming we're all doing the best we can with the tools we have available. This also means that understanding is not justifying and is not accepting. I can have compassion for you and be like, okay, you. I hate people playing with my nipples.

59:55 I have very nipples and I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. And I have a couple of friends I have sex with regularly. One of them always forgets and Oh, it's annoying. Have, yes, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm like, I know. Compassion is, I know. You forget because it's, it's, it's common. Like he, we get, we're in the moment. He just impulsively does it. I am not going to accept it. And that's like a minor thing. If it's, it's, if it's something more important, they can still say, you broke my consent. Oh, I had a, I had a friend sex with you before at one time he sends me a video of us and he's like, it was so hot today. And I'm like, you were recording us.

1:00:37 And he says, it was just, I just did it in the moment. And this just a little bit, you can, you can, you can see your face. And I said, whoa I'm not okay with this. I'm not okay with, please delete that. And he said, I'm sorry. I didn't think about it. And I'm like, that's I agree with, I understand and I assume good faith. I don't think you were trying to hurt me. I don't think you're evil. I think that's the best way for you to communicate it. And you didn't know how to say it differently. That's perfect. And I don't hate you and I won't have sex with you again. So I don't feel safe anymore. Mm-hmm. So understanding that you don't have to be a villain for me to walk away and take care of myself. I can still love you. I can still like you. I can. I think that's huge because sometimes we don't walk away because we don't wanna villainize the person.

1:01:23 Mm-hmm. Right. And when you say, I love you and I don't want this again, rejection. Right. I think it's very important. It is, right? It is, man. I love that. That's great. Right? Yeah. No, we're gonna have all your little posters all over the place. See you read that one. Kidding? That's right. Jaime. Thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you for having me. Thank you for sharing your insights on love and ethics and reimagining how we relate to each other. This is all really cool. For our listeners, if you want to connect with Jaime, you can find him at gotitasdepoliamor.com. Did I get that right?

1:02:03 Yes. And any social network. And now Instagram and Facebook are also translating my po my reels. So you can watch them in English and stuff. Yes, I actually saw that. So everybody, um, follow him on Instagram, YouTube, and TikTok. He's got awesome TikTok videos. If you're Latino, please that it's like the best information. I swear, that's cute. Um, you can find him all that. You can find all the information find it in our show notes. There you go. You'll find it in our show notes as well as our website. Remember, it's at www dot beyond monogamy.com. That's where you can find all of our past episodes, our blog, our merch, and all of our links in one place. You know, I spelled out the word dash.

1:02:44 You did. And you still, you still, uh, still just went past it, huh? You did. I'm sorry. Yeah, I see that you can also catch us every Thursday at 1:00 PM and 6:00 PM Central on full swap radio.com. And Jaime, it was such a joy to have you on with us. Yeah. Thank you for having me. Absolutely. Thank you very much. Whenever you have that book in English, it's for him. He, he won't, he can't do the Spanish one, so. Yeah. But I, I, you know, I, yeah, I, I am, uh, I am very interested. I, I, I had a ball talking to you. I really would, uh, love to talk to you again. Maybe we can get you on the show again in the future. Anytime. And with that, uh, we appreciate all of our listeners tuning in for another wonderful guest.

1:03:26 And with that, I will say keep listening and we will see you guys next week. Bye.