Who Gets Left Out in the Swinger & ENM Lifestyle Community

0:07 All right, y'all. Before we dive in, a quick heads-up This show is raw, real, and definitely not rated PG. We're talking about adult themes, sexual content, and the kinda stuff you probably don't want blasting through your speakers at work or around your kids. So grab some headphones, pour your drink of choice, and get comfy. Oh, and just so we're clear, we are not licensed therapists, counselors, or sex couches. Sex coaches. Sex coaches. Not sex couches. We're just a couple of people sharing our lives, experiences, and sexy adventures in ethical non-monogamy. So with that, pull up a chair and enjoy the show.

0:50 Hello, and welcome to another episode of Beyond Monogamy. I'm Adam. And I'm Pris. And today we're talking about something that we've, we've talked about on the show before. Um, I will say this, we as a lifestyle podcaster, we really push the fact that we are an all-inclusive, uh, group. We try to be very all-inclusive. Uh, the community is all-inclusive if you can find it, but it's also not. It's also really kinda not. Uh, and a lot of times it can be like high school. Um, the lifestyle sells itself as this open, sex positive, and welcoming to everybody kind of community.

1:33 Mm-hmm. But if you walk into any lifestyle club- Mm-hmm on a Saturday night, you will see a pecking order. Yeah. Uh, and so t- that's what we're talking about today, and we're talking about who gets left out. Okay. And what we can do about it. All right. Yeah. Well. Yeah. That's a few people. So, so I, I wanna start this… I want you to channel Pris from five years ago, okay? Okay. Figure out your mindset. May- maybe when we first moved out here to where we're at now. Okay. Your mindset. Granted, we were poly at that time, but we were also still swinging. Mm-hmm. Uh, and you were… We were just discovering that you were perimenopausal, all that good stuff.

2:15 Already menopause. Already menopause. Yeah. Excuse me. So I want you to channel in that Priscilla right quick. Okay. And describe to me the ideal lifestyle couple to you. Um- Physically. Physically? Physically. Ooh. Mm-hmm. Yeah, we're not talking personality. I mean- From five years ago … for, okay, five years ago, that would've been a very fit young couple. A fit young couple? Yeah. Okay. Okay. Like, the guy would've been… Both of them would've been fit. Yeah. Now, are you just talking about in general, not for me, just in general? Like, what the ideal couple was then? Yeah. Like, well the- So- … ideal couple that you would be like, "Man, I, I, I wish we could," you know?

2:57 That, that sort of thing. Yeah. So it would be maybe not young, young, but our age, maybe a little younger, and fit. Yeah. Like, that was the thing. And as far as, like, looks, like they had to be, like, really attractive. Very attractive. Yeah. You know, just the, the extreme when you think about… When you think about, I think, the lifestyle, you always, for some reason, a pornographic vision of that, that sexy- Yeah person. Right. You know? The very suave man, the very fit, well-proportioned woman. That's what- I like to, to refer to that as the unattainable couple.

3:38 Yeah. The unattainable couple. I… So I don't anymore. Yeah. But yes, that was my thought back then. Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting. Yeah. You know, I can say- That even though I am one of those that I don't, I don't go for people by their looks, personality really makes more of a difference to me. Yes. There is that unattainable couple mentality in my head. You know, especially when we first entered in this community out here, and there were certain couples that we would look at just at a, a meet and greet or whatever and go, "They're hot." Yeah. Yeah. Like, we, we wouldn't even be able to talk to them. Yeah. And we had those conversations before.

4:18 We did. And then as time went on, we, we started meeting up with these people that we thought were hot, and we started realizing- … that they were not that hot. And, and, and- Our brains- What is hot? Yeah, what is hot? Our brains just thought they were unattainable. Yeah. Be- Because- Because of certain looks … because of certain looks, but because we didn't have any self-confidence- Right … at all. And then you meet these people, and all the ones that we met, it was like their personalities really made them less hot. Yes. You know? Made them less attractive. Yes. And then you realized what they were, but because they were physically attractive- Yeah they would be considered the, the top of the hierarchy.

5:06 Right. So to speak. Mm-hmm. They're the ones who everybody wants to invite to the party. Yeah. They're the ones who everybody hopes that they show up. But that's what we thought. Well, that's what it seemed like. That's what it seemed like. And that's, that's the thing is that's what a lot of newer people or people who really haven't dug into the community- Yeah and been involved in the community, a lot of people think like that. Yes. And so- Like, we have to invite them because they're hot, and they're probably gonna invite even hotter people, and we're gonna have more hotter people. We've actually heard people say that about certain house parties. It is nothing Like what you think No. So that was something, uh, you know, like you said, we did not have the confidence at that time as a couple to- Yeah … feel like, oh yeah, we should even be on their talking level.

5:56 But like I said, y- you realize really, really quick that this hierarchy that you form in your head really is a very closed-minded way of being, and many of us subscribe to it. Yeah. And we don't realize that that's, that's a form of being very closed-minded. Mm-hmm. Now- I think if you don't have any self-confidence in yourself, that's where, that's where your mind goes. Yeah, yeah. Um- And w- you know, because of that lack of, of, uh, open-mindedness, because of the lack of confidence in ourselves, we didn't really talk to a whole lot of people- No initially. We did not. And because of that, we felt left out quite a bit.

6:37 We did. We felt left out- Mm-hmm … at events. Mm-hmm. You know, there was always a couple people that would come up to us, but for the most part, people didn't… They would just kind of look at us and keep walking. Yeah. Um, and we felt like, "God, this, this is kind of cold," you know? Yeah. And it was really one of those things where, you know, you don't, you don't get invited to the house parties. Like, when are we gonna go to a house party? We don't know what that experience is like- Yeah … 'cause nobody invites us. Well, nobody invites us because we don't talk to anybody. So really, when we got immersed in the community is when we realized, oh… And, and- … and the true community, the true community that, that, that we experienced had nothing to do with your looks. No. It had nothing to do with your personality.

7:19 No. And it had everything to do with the fact that we had a, a podcast. I'm just kidding. No, but, but really, really, for real, for real, it, it… If you're really in the, the, the deepness of the community like we got into, and we got to meet everybody, and we got to talk to people, and we got to really, really experience our local community- People are really, really sweet. And they, and they- Mm-hmm … have brought us in. Mm-hmm. And they, they, there's a lot of people who have felt excluded who do their best to include everyone. Oh, so many. Yeah. There's so many. And we seem to gravitate toward people who are genuine.

8:00 So when we see that genuine, the, when we start talking to people and in the community, and you find that, that group of genuine inclusivity, it is not always a very huge group. No. No. Like, there's a lot of people who only include certain people into their little clique. Yeah, and- And, and, uh, you know, I know people say, "Oh, there's not cliques in the lifestyle. There isn't cliques in lifestyle." There is. There's cliques in the lifestyle. There's cliques everywhere. Yeah. There's cliques when you w- at work, there are cliques. Doesn't matter what community. It doesn't matter what community it is. It's in every community. There are cliques. You didn't get invited to that one thing. You didn't go to this thing. I, there is.

8:40 It is what it is, right? But you can find these cliques that are so open to people who are genuine, and we've seen that. We've seen so many different style of people. Yeah. So many different… It's not even like, um, not so much the style, but the personalities. So many different personalities. Yeah, yeah. And- It really is a melting pot. It, it is. At least in our circle. Yeah. In our community, it is a melting pot. Mm-hmm. Now, I don't know what other communities are like out there. I'm sure if you go to a smaller town, like our previous community was very small. Mm-hmm. And it was very close-minded. And it, that's kind of weird to say when you're talking about a, a, a non-monogamous or s- Mm-hmm … or swinging community.

9:27 Mm-hmm. But there is a very clear hierarchy. So if you think back to high school, and high school had a hierarchy. And even any high school movie that you watch, there's a hierarchy. You've got the rich people, and the jocks, and the cheerleaders all on one area. And then you go down a level, and then there's this group of people. Mm-hmm. And then there's, before that, you know it, you're all the way down, right? And we all have this kind of thought process stuck in our head because we're fed that through movies and just society as a whole, just like anything else. And it's hard to break out of that. I remember telling you when we, when we started in the lifestyle, I felt like I was on the bottom tier of this popularity hotness scale.

10:11 Right. And I was not being looked at- Mm-hmm … by anybody. Mm. And, and it felt very high school. And, and so I've felt left out, I don't know how many times, and that's me. My wife would never let me be left out. No. But I have always felt left out because I'm with a beautiful woman, so where's all the attention gonna go to? You know what I mean? I'm not the, uh, the top-tier guy. As, it… That, that's the way it was in my head. Mm-hmm. And we had, I think we've done shows on that before. Mm. Has there ever been a time where you've felt left out in the community? Yes. Really? Yes. You'll see a lot of women groups in the community. Yeah. And I feel like that's where I feel left out.

10:51 But I also don't care. Yeah. I used to care. I used to be like, "Why didn't I get invited to that?" I… And it would hurt my feelings. Now I, I don't care. Like, it- That's a very freeing thing. Yeah. I, I don't care if you invite me to something. I don't care if… And it's not like, "You're a bitch. I don't care." I might have just slipped your mind. I'm, we're not… I think people now in the community understand we aren't hard partiers. We do not, we don't drink. We don't stay out very late. If we go to the club, you're, you're gonna catch us by 12:00 walking out. If we have friends there- Yeah … that have come from out of town, we'll stay a little bit later, but for the most part, we leave.

11:34 So I understand now, like, oh, you know, I'm not a very active person in, in, in the community, like, to be included in, like, bar hopping and stuff like that. Yeah. So when I don't get invited to those things or when the ladies are having, like, a certain, I don't know, tea party or whatever it is, right, and I don't get invited, I used to feel really left out. Yeah. But I don't anymore. Yeah. Um, I used to feel like that also when I was younger. Really? Yeah. Like, if I didn't get invited to a party, I mean, it was very rare. But when I didn't get in- … to a party, even, like, a relative's party- Yeah … I would feel like, "Oh, how rude." Really?

12:16 Like, why didn't you invite me? And then I got to a point in my life where I was like, I don't care. And now I'm in that point again where I'm like, okay, well, I'll throw my own party. I, I don't- Yeah need you to invite me to your party. Now, I understand when it's, um, an event and I don't go, but no, I don't, I don't feel bad anymore about not being invited, but not being included. Well, you know, I always said since we started this that if people don't wanna invite us to their table, that that's fine. It's okay. We're just gonna start our own table. Yeah. And we're gonna invite everybody to our table and, you know, and fuck those people. And I don't, yeah. I don't, I do think sometimes we're not invited for certain reasons, but majority of the invitations that we do not get is not because they don't like us.

13:02 It's because they know us, and they know we're not gonna drink. We're not gonna go out. Yeah, and that it's probably not our vibe. It's not our vibe. Yeah. And they understand that because they're actual friends that pay attention. Right. You know? Right. And just because they're friends and they don't invite us out does not mean they're not our friends. They just understand that we're not gonna stay out very late, and it's not our vibe. Yeah. Like you said, like, it's okay. Yeah. You know? That's true. And you're gonna find mean people. Yeah. You're gonna find mean people. Girl, women are petty. We're petty. We're very, very catty. We're, we're assholes. Like, we are bigger assholes on invites than, than men are Yeah, I don't, I, I don't really care if I don't get invited to stuff- Mm-hmm too often.

13:48 Mm-hmm. Every now and then I've sat back and gone, "Hey, what the hell? They didn't give us an invite." But then I, I also have sat back and gone, "Uh, would I have really gone?" Would you have gone? Yeah. No, probably not. We do that a lot. Yeah. You know, I, I have social anxiety, so sometimes the idea of just staying home. Like, I want to be invited, just don't expect me to come. Mm-hmm. You know? But, you know, there's, there's that pecking order, there's that hierarchy that we all kinda throw into our head. And, you know, I really feel like it's that thought process that there's a hierarchy in this that really prevents people from talking to other people, from even throwing themselves out there towards other people.

14:28 I mean, it's intimidating. I mean, I mean, it, it can be. It can be. It's a, it's a very intimidating scene if you are new. Say you walk into… Like, we started, right? You walk into a club on a Saturday. It is filled with people. Our club, Club Eden, is filled. It's always busy. There's always new people. But I've seen the new people come in, and I've seen them been invited to tables. I've seen them make the moves that needed to be made in order- Yeah … you have to, you cannot assume walking into a club that someone is gonna say, "Hi, are you new? Come this way." It's a rare, but it's also ve- I mean, like I said, it's very rare.

15:09 It's a very rare thing. Yeah. You have to make that move. If you see a couple and you're interested, just go up to them and talk. But if you're new, it's a hard thing to do. Yeah. It's very intimidating. Yeah, especially if you think that they're way too attractive. I've, I've heard people tell you, "Oh, well, you're out of my league." I didn't talk to you because y- yeah, you're just… I don't, I don't think you'd like me. And it's like, that's the most, in the lifestyle, that's ridiculous. It's, it, it, yeah, but it's also, it, it revolves around insecurities. Yes. Now, there are several different groups that I've realized are not on the norm included into usual settings. There's, the number one group that I, I feel like is, is really the most gate kept group in the lifestyle, that's gonna be single men.

15:58 Yes. Okay? Oftentimes, single men are not included in a lot of plans. Hell, there's some clubs out there that won't let single men in. Single men- And I don't understand that … I don't know. They have higher fees. Ugh. There's restricted nights, and then of course there's that whole creepy guy. Creepy. Yeah. Creepy guy vibe. Yeah. Yeah. It's just, and that's- It's a, it's a stereotype for most. Yes. For most. I, I've noticed that really a lot of the creepy guys that we've run into have been a mix of single guys and married guys. Mm-hmm. You know? I mean, it's just- Mm-hmm … I think we can just say they're just creepy people. I'm, there's, yeah. It's not even men are w- it's creepy people. I've had creepy women.

16:38 Totally. But I do feel like the single male gets shitted on more often than so. Yeah. Which is odd, because the lifestyle is a lot of things ethical non-monogamy, right? Yeah. It's a big umbrella. Yeah. Hot wife? They usually want a single guy Yeah. Yeah Like- So where are you gonna find that at, you know? Where are you gonna find that at? And it's a, it is hard. And I see the single guys that go into the clubs, and I'm like, "Guys, man, y'all…" Some of them are the creepy. The creepy guy? I mean, how many times have we said- Yeah … "Is this gonna be the White Claw guy again?" Yeah, the White Claw guy. If you haven't heard that episode, you need to listen to the White Claw guy episode.

17:21 Yeah. And it never fails now. We look at every single guy because they literally will stop and stare at us or stare at me like I'm like- Granted, her boobs are normally out … like literally out, and those are quite attractive to the eyes. But there are ways to look without being creepy. Mm-hmm. Because trust me, I'm, I'm checking out every fine piece of the lady that walks by me- Yeah … but I'm not staring- Right … and just looking at their chest or just looking at their ass. But it's not only, it's not only the single guys because how many of those people were, like, with a couple and we're like, "Are they single?" Oh, yeah. And then here comes the lady, and it's like, "No, they weren't." Yeah. It really isn't. But, yeah.

18:02 So that's what I'm saying. Yeah. It's single men are ostracized and excluded oftentimes. Hell, throwing house parties, how many times- Mm-hmm … do they go, "Okay, let's go down the list. We'll invite all these couples, and do we wanna invite single guys? Nah, we're not gonna invite single guys for this one." No. Or, "Yeah, we'll invite one or two." And you know, I think that… I think when people do that and don't invite them, like, to the house parties and everything, I think it's a male ego thing. You think so? I do. Mm. I think, "Oh, there's too many, too many men, and they're just gonna, like-" I'm gonna have to, you know, whose dick is bigger. Really? I really feel like that's what it is. But, I mean, that's me hating on men. In the entire 15 years we've been in the lifestyle, I have never once felt like, "Man, I, I bet that guy's dick is gonna be bigger than mine." Yeah.

18:47 Like, that thought has never crossed my mind. Good. Well, you have a big dick, so. What a trip. Well, I didn't think I was well-equipped. Yeah. It was… It took me a while to realize that I, I am, but- Yeah … yeah, for the longest time, I'd, I, I just assumed I was smaller than everybody else. Yeah. And when I went to the club, there were guys that, uh, we would go to, like, I remember we went to a hotel takeover, and there was this old dude across the pool from us, and he just disrobed- Oh like he was fresh out the vagina, and, and he was packing. Yeah. Dude was packing. And I looked at him and I said, "Well, I'm not taking off my clothes." I mean, we all feel- Yeah … you know.

19:28 Yeah. But, yeah. But, you know, I mean, that, and that kinda leads me into my next group, uh, that I feel are often ostracized and left out. We're talking about age and bodies here, guys, because honestly, we've seen 'em. We've seen 'em at the club. There, there are some elderly folks who have made it out- Mm-hmm … to the club. Mm-hmm. And I mean that, and I mean that with all respect. Mm-hmm. I'm talking walking with a walker or a cane. Yeah. Uh, I, I'm talking, like, older and- Our grand- like, they could be our grandparents. Yeah. And you know what? Fuck yeah. Awesome for you guys. Mm-hmm. But… A- and you know, that's, I think that's a beautiful thing. I think that's great.

20:08 Yeah. I think that y- that you can e- get these experiences at no matter what age. But I also sit back and go, "They're not, they're probably not gonna be included in a whole lotta stuff." Oh, for sure. You know what I mean? If they w- if they already, if they, if they are new to the lifestyle or haven't been involved in a lot of the community- Yeah … they are not gonna… Yeah, and probably incredible people to hang out with. But, you know, because of the age difference- Mm-hmm … chances are people would, would be like, "Yeah, no, no, let's not invite the old people." We've… Exactly. You know what I mean? Yes. Yes. Uh, I can already hear that one. I mean, I'm 48. I'm, I'm hitting the 50s almost, and I don't feel old.

20:51 I don't know what that, like, even what that is. Like, I don't feel incapable of, you know, I can still be bent like Gumby. We're good. Ev- every- Yeah, you're posable. Yeah. And so that, um- It, it is something that crosses my mind, like at what point do you, do you stop? You know, we've al- Do you keep going? Yeah, we've always talked about that. Because are you gonna be… Yeah, are you going to be that older couple that is walking with a cane and shouldn't be in there? And, you know, and, and who makes those fucking rules, man? Who makes the rules? That's exactly it. Who makes those rules and says, "You know what? Yeah, no, sorry." I think you make them yourself. Yeah. We all internalize this- Yeah … and go, yeah, no. Well, just because they're not for you doesn't mean that they should be, that they shouldn't- Mm-hmm … be included.

21:35 You know what I mean? And I think that that's really our own downfall, and we're projecting our own insecurities on other people. For sure. You know, which just sucks. And so, you know, older folks can tend to feel excluded in a lot of things. Mm-hmm. I know that there are groups specifically for the lifestyle, for 50 and over. Mm-hmm. And for 60 and over. And I think that's cool that you have your own groups, but you shouldn't have to. You should be able to be included. You should be able to be included- Right? … in every group. And I'm sure if you feel invisible, you know, just, just tap them with your cane. That's right. And say, "Hey, look here, Sunny Jim. I'm still here, and I fuck." That's right. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, man.

22:16 You can be mad as hell, and you're not gonna take it anymore. And I dig it, because you know what? I'm gonna be there one of these days. Mm-hmm. I'm getting old. I mean, I look old. I, I look old. I'm just not… I'm 44. You look older. I look older. Yeah. Not old. My, my, my face and my balls look distinguished. But I do, I do feel like I have experienced some ageism at, at, at… Not ageism, but ageism when it comes to this lifestyle at sometimes. Because you have the gray hair and you look older. Because I look older. Mm-hmm. You know, you've always looked younger. And, and I mean, you don't even… You stopped dyeing your hair, and you still look younger. And it's like, well… And we've been around people- And felt parental.

23:02 For sure. We, and I, I don't know what to tell you, man. Like, the last thing I wanna do before I tap that ass is feel like I have to lecture you about your grades. You know what I mean? I am not trying to do that. No. Like, don't make me feel like a parent. No. You have to be adult. Yes. You have to be responsible. Yes. And the moment that you- I mean, I feel, I've, I've felt parental with older people, so. Yeah. Like- It really doesn't matter what your age is on that- Yeah it's how you act. Yeah. And that goes back to what you were saying. You, you've never really felt old. What is feeling old? Yeah. You know? It's, it's, and old is a state of mind. I believe it is. Hell yeah, man. Mm-hmm. So, you know, don't stop living for tomorrow.

23:44 No. Right? Yeah. All right, real quick, hold up your hand for a second. Why? What are we doing? We're doing the SwingTap plug. This is the wedding ring on my hand. And this is the bracelet on my wrist, which I haven't taken off since we've gotten it. Yeah, you really should- … 'cause you gotta clean yourself. Yeah. But before we even get into the wearables, SwingTap is actually a whole platform. You sign up, one-time fee, no subscription, and you build yourself a lifestyle profile. Photos, preferences, all of it. And once it's built, you get your own custom link and a QR code. So instead of trying to remember your SDC username or spelling out your kick across a loud bar- You just share the link or flash the code, and then it's done And that is where the wearable comes in.

24:29 Because instead of even pulling out your phone, you can just show them the QR code once they tap your little wearable thing here. Yeah, I mean, it really is that simple. You just tap. You tap the rings, the bracelets. They even do NFC cards. Oh, that's right. It's really cool. Yeah. Someone taps their phone to mine, my whole profile pops up. Mine just looks like a wedding ring from across the room, so nobody's the wiser until you want them to be. Same with my bracelet. It's genuinely the smoothest setup we've found for events, meetups, the boat, wherever. Build your profile once, then just tap wherever you go. That's right. Go check out the platform and the wearables, swingtap.fun. Links in the show notes. Use our link swingtap.fun/share/beyomono.

25:14 It supports the show too. Tap in, literally. All right, back to the episode. Now, I feel another group that always gets or maybe is misunderstood, bigger bodies. Man, let me tell you something. There are- I have felt that one- The lifestyle- … my whole life … yeah, the lifestyle has every shape. You're tall, you're short, you're, you know, slim, you're not, you're athletic, you're not. Every single body type is in the lifestyle. Yeah, that's true. Every kind. That's true. The bigger bodies do get excluded. Or I think they don't get excluded, I think it is, uh, the person- Well, so yeah … that excludes themselves.

25:58 You know, and I can absolutely speak to this because let me tell you something, I'm a bigger body, and I have been for a very long time. Now- I mean, I am, too. I'm not a- Um … I'm not a thick- Yeah, but you're frigging smoking, dude I'm not a thin, I'm not a thin, fit body. This is true. This is true. Like, I am thick. And, and, and we're gonna come back to that. Because, but, because there's a difference. There is a difference between a bigger body man and a bigger body woman. Mm. But I have always felt this disregard in the lifestyle because I was rather large. Now, I was a big guy when we started in the lifestyle.

26:40 Mm-hmm. And I got bigger over the years. And then a few years back, I got on a healthy kick and I lost 100 pounds, and I started working out, right? Yeah. And that was about the time that we started back in the life- like, in this community. Yeah. And we started meeting people. And I feel like, I feel like people started seeing me after I started working out. Yes. People started noticing me after I started- Well, because you were more out … slimming down. I started coming out with this confidence. Yeah. You know? And because of that, I came out with a little bit more confidence of, "Hey, you don't wanna talk to me? Well, fuck you, keep on walking." Right. And so that took away some of the, I don't know, the awkwardness.

27:21 And I realized, hey, you know, being healthy and, and, and working out and that whole thing, it gets you attention. Yeah. And then- I was wa- And then- And then … I got let go- … from my job and I stayed home for an entire year. Yeah. And in that year, I worked very hard on this show, I worked very hard on content. Yeah. And I did not leave the house. No. I hardly ever- And you found those hundred pounds again. I hardly ever left the stretchy pants. Yeah. Always wore the stretchy pants. Yeah. You know? And I gained weight. Now, I did not gain the full hundred, thank you very much, asshole. But I did gain some weight. I have gotten to be a chubby panda.

28:02 Thank you very much. Bailey, you're so happy. Oh, thank you so much. I'm so glad that I have a nar- another therapy appointment next week. We will revisit that. Um, but I mean, I've gained weight and Uh, all right, yeah, okay. We're talking about me right now. Okay. Thank you. Sorry. Go ahead. This guy is husky now, right? So I have, I have seen- This is a plus-size dude … I have seen myself balloon up from- Uh-huh … 230 to, I think I'm at 270 right now. Mm-hmm. Which is a lot, and it's very disappointing. And of course, you, uh, you gain weight and you start feeling less sexy. You start feeling less con- and then those insecurities start coming back.

28:44 So I get it. I'm a, like I said, I'm a bigger body. Have I felt excluded because of it? Abso-fucking-lutely. Yeah. Absolutely. Mm. Have I… But this is the thing about it, is those, I can tell you for sure, were my own insecurities. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 10 times out of 12, those were usually my own insecurities and nobody really gave a shit. Uh, but- I mean, I'm like that too. Like, I can always tell you, ooh, man, I just don't feel like I'm, I'm it right now. Yeah. I, I don't feel good. I- Yeah, and then you think that everybody's looking at you. Yes. It feels like everybody's looking- And judging and judging and, and thinking that you're gross. Mm-hmm. And nobody is. And nobody really is.

29:26 Like, I can tell you from a set of professional people watchers that we are, uh, it is never been the case that we've looked at somebody and gone, "Ugh- What are they doing? Oh my gosh, did you see that? No. Hell no. No. Uh, you know, I'm… We're those people that we're like, "Fuck yeah, dude. You rock that shit. That's confident right there." Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That's cool. Mm-hmm. Uh, being true to yourself, I think, is very, very cool, and that wasn't the way that we were raised, to celebrate being true to yourself. No. We were raised to, you know, be, be the, the cool person, be, be like them. Mm-hmm. And, and doesn't matter how you feel or you go with the crowds, you know.

30:07 Mm-hmm. Not in this community. This community, it is very cool for you to love who you wanna love, be who you wanna be, and look how you wanna look. Mm-hmm. And frankly, there is a spot for every single body. There is. Doesn't matter what. Now, now speaking on that, I don't wanna exclude those who have had their bodies done, because there are a lot of people out there who have had a lot of work done. I will tell you, I follow this one person who is, I think she's a porn star, and she's a big woman. Yeah. And that's exactly what she says. She, she has enough money to get her body done.

30:48 Like, don't get me wrong. There's so many drugs now that you can lose so much weight, get your body done. And she said that it, it is hard. It's hard to compete. So it is… This is not a competition. It really isn't a competition. You know, it's not a competition, but there are a lot, and I have to say there's probably a 50%, if not more, of the people that get their body done in the lifestyle than there is just regular bodies. Yeah, and, uh, there's a lot of different communities where, uh, and, and I've spoken to somebody specifically about this, that their community is primarily a lot of people who have had their bodies done. And so because of that, they felt they had to do the same. And I can only imagine that kind of pressure.

31:30 That's a tough kind of pressure. And that's really you as a woman putting that pressure on yourself. Yeah, yeah. Because nobody ca- Like, I do the same thing. I would love to, you know, have that mommy makeover and feel that confident, but I'm not doing it for competition. I'm not doing it because that person's body looks better than mine. I know I'm hot. Yeah. Yeah. You know, that- I know I'm, I'm, I- That's really gotta be tougher for women on that end- Yes … because- Like, you're gonna take me as I am or you don't have to. Like, I'm doing… Whatever I wanna do to myself is because I wanna do to myself. Yeah. It's nothing to do with I need to keep up with the Joneses.

32:10 Did you ever feel like that, though? Yes. Did you have- I did … that feeling like, "Man, I really need to, I need to step up my game"? Yes. Yeah. Ever. Yeah? Forever. It wasn't- That's gotta be a lot of pressure … until probably this, you know, a year maybe, maybe two years ago that I was like, I may not have that body, I may not be, you know, that picture perfect whatever people think that is. You know? Right. The fake boobs and the, you know, the fake ass and, and all that tucked in. And I thought, you know, well, I'm never gonna get looked at. It really is a confidence in yourself and, and I'm not an insecure person. Well, you know, what I found out is there's a, there's a big thing when it comes to perception.

32:55 Uh, the moment you change your perception, everything changes. Mm-hmm. And what I mean by that is I used to feel like, oh well, I can't, I can't get this person's attention because they, they're not interested in bigger, bigger people like myself. They want only fit bodies. Mm-hmm. And then I felt sour and excluded. Now I'm like, they only want fit people? Well, move along, homie, because you're not gonna get to experience this fun. You know what I mean? And that perception has made me go, okay, you know what? I, I don't really care. Mm-hmm. Like I'm, I'm… I, I don't like my body because of me. Exactly. I don't, like, have that feeling about- Mm-hmm myself because of others- Mm-hmm … and what they, what they perceive me as.

33:41 I, I, I don't really care about that. I care about how I feel and how I look- Yeah … for myself. Yeah. Like I- And I know a lot of people get their bodies done for that very reason, because of their own- Like, for me, it's gonna be for me. Yeah. I got my breasts lifted in 2013. Yeah, yeah. And I did that for me. I did not do that for anybody else. Do I want a mommy makeover? Of course I do, for me. Right. Not for anybody else's pleasure but myself. Yeah. So. Yeah. But I'm not, I'm not an insecure person. True. I'm not… I'm very confident. I love myself and I love my body, and what I wanna do to myself and my body is specifically for me.

34:22 Yeah. Nothing to do with a lifestyle. Yeah. A lot of women, though, do do it because I feel because of insecurity and- Insecurity in the lifestyle specifically Yeah. Yeah, and that's gotta be a tough- It's the keeping up with the Joneses. Yeah The keeping up with that, that picture perfect that you think in your pr- in your mind, so. Sure. Sure. Well, I mean, I think we all do it to an extent. Mm. But it, it is tough for those who have had their bodies done. I know a lot of ladies who are… They get their bodies done, and then they're insecure about their, their scars, you know? Mm-hmm. And it's like, "Hey, you know what?" Honestly, a lot of us, 90, 90% of us look at you for you and are not looking at your scars.

35:04 We're not looking at how your body looks. Maybe y- maybe you've got an apron belly or maybe, you know, you've got cellulite or whatever. Mm-hmm. We're, we're not picking you apart. Mm-mm. There's a lot of us that we're not, and there are more of us who are not judging you and not picking you apart like you are. Yes. And way less of the people thinking that you think are thinking that. Uh, so even though it may feel unnatural, you really have to kinda pull yourself out of that and go, "Okay, I'm gonna enjoy this for me." Yeah. You know? And enjoy it for yourself. Yes. Yeah. Now, uh, the next group that we're gonna talk about, you know, being excluded is, is kind of a heavy, guys.

35:45 It's kind of a heavy… It's a, it's a, it's one that I know my wife is very, very opinionated about. We're talking about race. Now, I… W- and the reason why I bring this up is because, uh, you know, I am an avid tuner of SwingTok. Uh, we do a lot of content, and we put it on, uh, #SwingTok on TikTok, and that's where a lot of swinger content and material can be found is on, on SwingTok. Uh-huh. And, uh, so I, I peruse it to see, uh, what new content is out there, what kind of new podcasts are coming out. You know, I like to support the community as best as I can and get eyes on other things. Uh-huh. And, uh, some of the people that I follow are people of color.

36:28 They're Latinos. They're people from the Black community, Indian communities. Uh, you know, it, there's a lot of different communities- Mm-hmm … that I, that I follow that are taking off in the non-monogamous arenas. Okay. And when it came down to the non-monogamy, uh, w- you know, we're from South Texas originally, and our community was down there when we started out as swingers. Now, as swingers- It was very easy to find people to have sex with who were Hispanic, who were Latinos. Yes. Because that's… We're South Texas. Mm-hmm. It was around, right? But what I've realized is in listening to a lot of these other content creators is that a lot of people of color don't feel like they're included when they go to a club, per se, or they go to certain house parties, things like that.

37:27 A lot of parties tend to be more on the segregated end. And some clubs, like there's even, uh, some clubs in Houston where they're just very, very different vibes. More people of color towards one club and less toward the other club. You know, it- it- it's… And I believe there was one of the content creators that I was listening to, uh, they were Black, and they were talking about how, yeah, you know, we, we don't, we don't get included on… We know that if there's, if there's certain events or if there's certain house parties going on, we know we're not gonna be getting an invite. But then there's other people that you know that they're gonna be, uh, doing an event or something like that. We know we're, we're gonna be one of the first ones to get in.

38:09 Um, and it's, it's just, uh, what they were saying it's, it's a comfort, uh, with, with people that you know you can relate to, right? Yes. Yes. Now- But that's… And see that's the tricky part is because it's a form of exclusion, but it's also a form of self ex- exclusion. Exactly. You know, you're, you're kind of- I mean, we're- keeping to yourself instead of- It, and you know, some people- … you know, mixing along with everybody else … yeah, some people gravitate more to a different, to a certain race. I, I gra- I, if I see Latinos, I gravitate toward Latinos. Yeah. Now, I like all races. Right. But your gravitation for me, if I see a Latina girl, a Latina woman, I can at least speak Spanish.

38:55 If I can speak Spanish or… Like, that's just fun for me. Now- I do see in different communities, in Corpus, I mean, people, there is a lot of not inclusivity toward anybody who's not Latin in some of the groups that we were in. Yeah. They were specifically Latinos. Yeah. Um, the groups now are very inclusive. There's, there's a lot of different races. Yeah, they're very integrated. Now, whenever we, whenever we talk about our club and, you know, it's in… It's located in San Antonio and you would think, oh, there's lots of Mexicanos, whatever.

39:35 It's actually a mixing bag. It's a mixing bag, but in the beginning there was not. No? It was not a mixing bag. We would go in and we'd be like, "There are no Latinos here." Yeah. That's right. They started doing Latin nights, and now you see a majority of people coming out. But for the most part, it's in San Antonio, where there's a lot of Hispan- a lot of Mexicanos. Yeah. There's none. It's a very rare occasion when you find a l- a, a few of them in the club. Yeah. You know, I mean, that's, and that's the, that's the hard part about it. You know, it's really a part of it that we don't wanna discuss oftentimes is- Oh, yeah … because it's hard to t- to, to speak the truth on that, it, but it, it really isn't a, a, the mixed bag that it should be.

40:19 It is now. It's starting to get there. It's starting to get there. And it's slowly starting to get there, but it's, it's getting there, and people are like, "Hey, come on over here." Yes. "Let's, let's do this." You know? They're starting to realize that people are nicer, people are- Yes … are, this is an actual community. It doesn't have to be I have to stay over here with my, with my friends and not, not go out. Yeah. You can actually- It's a mix … uh, you can. Now- And you can mingle with all of 'em. Like, they're… It's so inclusive at our, in our area that it's, it's nice. It's, it's nice to see that grow. Yeah. It, and, and it takes a lot to get there 'cause not all communities are there. Exactly. Now, one thing that I wanted to bring up in, on this space too was, you know, when we were down in South Texas, we, we became poly.

41:02 Mm-hmm. And one of the, the problems that we ran across was that, you know, you wanted, you specifically, you wanted to date more Latinos. Yes. Uh, because that was your comfort. That was one of the things that, that, you know- I can relate … if I'm going to be romantically involved with somebody, it's, it's gotta be somebody that I can relate to- Yeah and have, you know, this comfort with. Understandably so. And we ran into a lot of… pushback and, and issues because the, at that time, this was 2015, 2016, there were not a lot of Latinos in the non-monogamous space. Mm. And a lot of it had to do with how deep-rooted our culture is in the r- in religion.

41:47 Yes. And a lot of times Catholicism, but other religions as well, you know, there's, uh- Yeah … the saints are present, you know? Yeah. The G- you're talking- Yes … God, you know, you're talking all of this stuff. And being non-monogamous and having multiple partners is something that people would say you're going to hell for. Mm-hmm. You know? And we ran into it so many times. Mm-hmm. Uh, we could not find very many people in our area who were Latinos and who could be involved with other people without having to keep it down on the low. Yeah. And I think that was one of the problems that we ran into oftentimes were when it came to, to being poly. There's, there's a, a throuple that I follow on, uh, TikTok by the name of Trio Diaries, and they are a throuple, and they're all Puerto Rican.

42:36 I followed them before. Yeah. Yeah. They're all Puerto Rican. Mm-hmm. And I find that so fascinating. Granted, it's now, I feel like, uh, non-monogamy has really taken an open space since the pandemic, and people are starting to normalize it a bit more. They're starting to talk about it more. Right. And it's starting to feel okay. People are getting their questions answered. Mm-hmm. So something like that It blows us away 'cause it's like, wow Latinos and- Latinos, all of them … in an open- Together … t- and it's, and you know, it's also culturally the machismo-ness. Uh-huh I feel like men don't like to share their women. I think that's in every culture.

43:17 I think it's, I, but I'm just saying like- Yeah … our culture. I know- Yeah … for sure that that's a thing. Like, that's a, men just do not wanna share their women. Yeah. And so to be poly and to be in that kind of thing is like, mm, yeah, no. I mean, I've seen Mexicanos in the swinger community where it's like, yeah, no, it, it, she can't be with any, any other men. Yeah. Like, it's only a woman. Right. And it's like, why? And we've talked to them, and it's like, "Oh, because that's just the way. I don't wanna see her with another man. I wanna see her with a…" Yeah, no. Yeah. I, she can share me, but I can't share her. I've seen that. It's like, mm. I've seen that a lot. And so, and, and that I feel is, is a big issue in, in that, in L- in the Latin community.

44:01 But we're starting to see it come out more. Oh. Which I think is great. For sure. I mean, one of the shows that we did was for a club that's in California- In California called Tentaciones. Mm. And it's a Latino-owned club. Yeah. And Latino and Lat- and it's Spanish themed, you know? And, and- Yes … that's cool, you know? So it's, it's, it's really awesome. There's throuples that I follow that are in Houston. They're, they're in the Black community. Mm-hmm. You know, they're- Mm-hmm … it, it, so it's, it's really starting to spread. The problem as it were, though, and I think that's the great end of it, but then when you're talking about race, you really have to ask yourself, is anybody experiencing fetishizing? You know, I've… I think so.

44:42 Yeah? I'm, I at least once a day- Yeah … get a message that's like, "You are such a hot Latina. Like, I would love to just, you know, spend some time with you." And it's like, why? Because Latina? Because you're gonna smell like tortillas? I guess so. I'm gonna bring them tamales. That'll be $20. That's right. Shit ain't free. I think it's fetishized. I've been told, we've been told that certain races are a fetish. I can see that, too. Like, I think ignorance plays a big part in that. Ignorance. So that's really, that's the tough part is talking, you know, what's the difference between fetishizing and having a preference?

45:26 Yeah. And, and I feel like you can have a preference, but that's not the only thing that you go after. You know what I mean? Like, you have a preference for Latinos. I have a preference. Yeah. But you don't only sleep with Latinos. No, no. If you were to be fetishizing, I believe that's where that's all you go for. Right. Like, I've had women tell me, "Oh, you're cute, but I only sleep with Black guys." Yes. Oh, okay. Like, I'm not offended by it. I'm like, cool. Yeah. That's, that's, uh, thanks for telling me ahead of time- Yeah, yeah so I don't have to work so hard. Yeah. Takes some of the pressure off, you know? Yeah. But I've, I've seen it before. Mm. And, uh- I've heard them tell you that … and that right there is straight up, that's a, uh, that's a fetishizing point of view.

46:08 Uh- Is it? People… It is. It is. Yeah? Yeah. It's not a preference? No, no, no. Because if it was a preference, me being cute- Oh, you said it was a preference with me … well, I would still have a chance I would still have a chance. Right, right. Yeah. Yeah. No, but, uh- Me being cute. Yeah … if that's, if that's, if that's all I've got going for me and, and, uh- Yeah … you know, I'm not a different shade, well, hey, forget it. You know what I mean? Yeah. Uh, so and I don't get offended by it. None of that stuff bothers me anymore, but it is definitely something that we have to look at, you know, that- Yes … I'm not saying what you're doing is wrong. I'm just, I'm just calling it out for what it is. It is what it is. And, uh, if that's how you, if that's how you swing, baby, then that's how you swing. I mean… Uh, but i- if, if it's a point of concern for you- Then it's something to look at internally and maybe go, "Maybe I should look at other experiences.

46:59 Maybe that cute guy." Why not? Why not? I mean, it's a, that's a fair qu- that's a fair assessment. And I'm just gonna throw this out here. I don't know, but, uh, not all stereotypes are true. I'm just saying. Yes. That is so true. Not all stereotypes are true. I'll give you- Nope, you don't have to … I'll give you an example. Yeah. I wear size 16 shoes, and they automatically think just because you have big feet that you got- Yeah … a big dick. It's not true. No. It's not true. No. Yeah, no. I don't have a big dick. I have an average dick, but I have large feet. Yeah. Yeah.

47:39 Big shoes. Big shoes to fill. Big shoes to fill. That's right. Yes. Yeah, so, you know, that's, that's, that's one of the things. I, I, I really think that if you can, if you can get past it, like if it's so- if it's really a point of concern for you and, and, and you feel like, maybe I, maybe I am excluding people- Mm-hmm because of this preference. Maybe I should explore other options and see what that's like. Hey, that's, that, that's pretty cool. Yeah. Not saying you have to, but I mean, that's, that's pretty cool- Yes … if it's a point of concern to you. Mm-hmm. Now, there is a community within our community that I have heard from, and I'm, I may even have somebody on the show at some point.

48:20 But I have heard from the, from people with disabilities and from people with chronic illnesses who have vocalized the difficulty of being in the community- While having whatever it is that they have. Okay. Like I, I know a guy who's very, very autistic in the community, and he's, he's high, he's highly functioning, but he's also very autistic, and it's… And he has stated to me very often, it's difficult. It's difficult because the way he is, you know, and, and he speaks very matter of fact and things like that. Mm-hmm. Just it- it's a turn-off to people sometimes, and they feel like, "Oh, well, he just has a bad personality." Well, no, actually he's, he's on the spectrum.

49:06 Yeah. And it's, and it's diagnosed, you know- Yeah … and that sort of thing. And, and not everybody can handle that. So automatically he feels left out of a lot of groups. I've been contacted by people who have been affected by certain disabilities. We've been at house parties where, you know, a guy with spina bifida walked in, you know? We've, we've seen people- Mm-hmm … who have been in our community who have had disabilities. Mm. And I can only imagine how they are left out quite a bit. Yeah. You know? Yes. Um, that's, I mean, that's terrible. Yeah. People with chronic illnesses, people who have, who are going through cancer and things like that, like, we actually know some people who are- We know a lot of people and, and in the community and still enjoying themselves.

49:53 I mean, I think- If you're going in for… If you're going in to play with somebody, I think those are things that you need to express to somebody if it's not a physical- Yeah … type of, of illness, you know? Yeah. Because I f- they need to know that. Yeah. Now, disabilities, it is. It's a, it's a whole different subject in itself. We do not have any dis- dis- you know, we don't have any disabilities, so to speak, on how difficult it is. No, I can't really speak to it. Very hard. Yeah, so we, we're just… We know these people, and we, we understand how hard it is because we've seen them.

50:34 They're our friends. We've seen them struggle. We've seen them been unable to join a group or even crack into one of those little cliques because they are not really accepted because people don't understand that. They think everybody in the, in the lifestyle is just what you would call normal. Yeah. But nobody's normal. Yeah. I mean, nobody is normal. Well, and you know what's… And, and I, and I hate to go back to this, but if you're disabled or if you have any of these things that are, are affecting you, you may be putting on some insecurities. Mm. You know, you may be projecting them out a little bit because I've actually met some really cool people in this lifestyle who are quite attractive and have very openly vocalized their want for, you know, connection with other people, and I've seen them go out with people who, with, with disabilities and, and with chronic illnesses and things like that.

51:33 Yeah. A- and like, I've seen it. I have seen it. They have sex and everything. Yeah. You know? So while it is a very, very real feeling, and it's completely valid, and I want you to know you are seen I also want you to know that you're, you're… You may be keeping yourself back from- Yes … experiences- I th- … because you're feeling that way. I think a lot of people do that. I think so. Yeah. I think so. And it's hard. It's human. It's human. It is human. But, uh- We're hard on ourselves. Yeah, it's true. It's true. I, I think when it comes to trying to fix this whole thing, there's some things that you can do.

52:14 For sure. The number one thing would be own something that you've been guilty of doing. Yes. Try and look in… at yourself and see yourself doing something, like if you're judging someone or if you're wanting to exclude someone, I want you to really sit with it. I want you to realize it and sit with it, and just own it and go, "Okay, why?" Women, women, stop being petty. Stop being petty. Stop being rude to each other. Women should be uplifting women. Yeah. Women should be caring for women. True. Just because you like something and maybe you've posted something and they didn't like it does not mean you should be mean to each other.

53:01 Agree to disagree. It is okay. I see so many women talking shit to each other. Yeah. Like, I straight out, I know who I don't like. Yeah. I don't talk shit about them. I just don't talk to them. Yeah. But I know who I don't like. But my gosh, if that person was going through something difficult and having some type of, of issue or something, I wouldn't be, you know, putting them down. It… That's what I see a lot of- Yeah … in the lifestyle. I see a lot of, of the pettiness and the bitchiness and the For things that are just not important. Yeah, totally.

53:41 Own it. Own it. Just be nice to each other. Like- Try your best … it's not… Yeah. I think another big, big issue is, and I wanna say clubs. Clubs, stop charging so freaking much for your single men. Or, or incorporate them somehow more. Incorporate them. You know? I know that some clubs do, like, a hot wife night, where they invite couples and single men, and it's cheaper on those nights. It's a bit easier to, for, for them to come out and enjoy. But I mean, there are a lot of couples- Mm-hmm … who partake in hot wives or enjoy a single guy, and if you have that price so high, yeah, I get it's gonna deter some of the single men coming in, but then it also deters some of the single men coming in.

54:30 It does. And let's be factual here. There, there's a call for them. There is. You know? You know, you can vet them. You can figure out a way to- You can vet them, and you train your staff … and you train your staff … properly. I will say the, our club is very good about including those single people. Oh, yeah. You know, they'll take them around or… You, every now and then you get a straggler, but the staff is really good about watching. Yeah, no. And- The, the staff really makes that entire place … it, it really- Which is why I say you gotta, you gotta train your staff … train your staff. If your staff is trained properly- Mm … that is a big part of it. Uh, now, when it comes to couples, what can couples do? Well, y- you know what? When you're at a place, you see someone standing alone, go say hi to them Go say hi Go say hi Even if you don't see them standing, if you just see somebody that you, that caught your attention in the bathroom, make conversation.

55:22 I will tell you, I've tried to make conver- me personally, I've tried to make conversations with some people- Yeah and you can see they're very standoffish. Yeah. And I'm like, "Okay, that's fine." But at least you- Move on … you, you attempted. Yes And they know that they have the ability to say hello if- Yeah … that comes up again. Yeah. Not everybody's really good at, at conversing. Yeah. Uh, but if you see someone who looks like they're nervous, if they look uncomfortable- Mm-hmm in a setting like that, if they look alone, it doesn't take much if you're more experienced just to go out there and say hello, introduce yourself- Mm-hmm … maybe give them a compliment on their shirt or something, and then say, you know what, you know, "Are you, are you busy? Do you wanna talk?" Or you can walk away or whatever.

56:04 But at least that. Make somebody feel seen, because the moment you feel not seen the entire night, boy, it really just hurts. It does. It hurts. Now, I wanna tell all my listeners out there, if you're listening, go to our website, go to that confessional, and let me know what your left out stories are. Anytime you felt left out, hit the anonymous confessional and let me know. We'd love to talk about it on the show. Now, if this episode got you thinking, head over to beyond-monogamy.com. That's where you'll find every episode, our blogs, our merch, that 100% anonymous confessional I just told you about, and where you can send us anything on the lifestyle, ethical non-monogamy, kink, or the show just period.

56:49 You can also catch us on Full Swap Radio every Thursday at 2:00 and 7:00 PM Central. And if you're in the Austin area- Mm-hmm … come see us November 15th at Forbidden Fruit for our Swinger 101 workshop. Yeah, that's gonna be a fun one. And we'll see you in Kansas City, Missouri for Krazy Winter Nights, February 19th through the 21st of 2027. Mm-hmm. That website is krazykasbh.com, and you can use our discount code. It's code BEYOMONO. That's B-E-Y-O-M-O-N-O, and it gets you a good little discount. Yeah. And with that, we thank you guys for joining us as always for another episode, and we will see you guys next week. Bye