0:00 Hello and welcome to Beyond Monogamy. I'm Adam. And I'm Pris. And today we've got someone truly special joining us all the way from the uk. She's a writer, educator, and advocate for ethical non-monogamy, open relationships, and living life on your own terms. We're talking to the amazing Rosie K, the voice behind thiskindofgirl.co.uk, one of the UK's most honest and empowering lifestyle blogs. Rosie writes about everything from open love to sex, positivity, confidence and personal growth, all through the witty, smart, and very British lens. We adore. That's right. We've been following Rosie's work for a while now, and we love how she talks about non-monogamy, not as a trend, but as real human experiences.

0:47 Messy, beautiful, emotional, and freeing all at once. So grab your tea or your favorite toy, no judgment, because this is going to be a thoughtful, sexy, and inspiring conversation. That's right. So welcome to the show, Rosie. We appreciate you coming. Thank you very much for having me. Um, I didn't realize that my writing had such a British spin on it, but I suppose it does. It does. Well, you know, just a little, just a little bit, just a little bit. When we're when we're not over there, that's all we know, but you know, we, we, uh, we have been following you for some time. We love what you you know, what we've seen in, uh, all of the clips. We've read some of your blog. You're, I, we really are. Thank you, uh, kind of, kind of fanning out here 'cause it's, it's really cool that you were able to join us and technology has let this happen.

1:34 You didn't even have to fly over here. So we appreciate that. Now, you know, I, before we get started with all of this, I just, if we could get the cribs notes on, just how you came to be you know, non-monogamous and how you came to reach this point. Okay. So I've always believed I've always been a bisexual woman. Um, when, when I was a teenager I had gay friends, both male and female, and I, I felt very kind of comfortable within that kind of like, alternative space, if you like. Yeah. Um, and I kind of realized that I was bisexual.

2:15 Maybe I was like 16 or 17. And so it's something which has always been part of me. And then when I started to get into relationships when I was older, it was something which she was always, I didn't want to have to choose between a monogamous relationship with a man or getting to be with a woman. I didn't wanna cheat on a partner, but I didn't know how to kind of like express it. So it just kinda like sat with me. And then in my early twenties, I was in a relationship with a man and I said to him, look, I'm bisexual and. But I don't wanna cheat on you, but I don't know what I can do with this. Like, how, how can I be me? But also have you, um, he was older than me.

2:56 He was very, um, very much more sexually experienced than me. Uh, I just moved to London at the, at this time, so I was like, you know, in, in this big city. And he suggested, you know, having a threesome, going to a swingers club. It was something he'd done before and I kind of like that seemed to fit, but I. Although this did provide an answer, I was absolutely terrified. The thought of going to a swingers club. And I remember I sat there on the bed as so many of us have gone and went, I'm never go to a swinging club. I'd be far too jealous I could never see with another woman. Yeah. You know? But at the same time, I had this desire in me to explore with women, to to, to form my own kind, like explore my sexuality and, and see what that could be like for me.

3:42 So, although I would say I was 70% terrified, I was also the remaining percent was curious. So that's how I kind of like came to my ethical non monomy journey. Kind of like started, um. And it is just kinda like grown from there. And I've, since then I've had the pleasure of being in many, a different type of relationship. I have been in open relationships where it wasn't open for me, it was open for my partner and he was a bisexual guy, so he would go off and meet with couples and Gaia like guys and stuff. Yeah. And I gave my consent. I've been in relationships with women. I've been in subdominant relationships where I've been the dominant woman.

4:24 Yeah, it, I've been in polyamorous relationships just because I wanted to see what it was like. So I've had a little taste of all these types. You've had a relationship buffet. I like that. Yeah. I have, I have. Um, and it's been great and like I've also been a single woman in the lifestyle because again, that's a completely different experience to to, to being, you know, in a couple. So yeah, I feel very lucky about all these experiences I've had and. Mean, there's a lot of stigma attached to women who've had lots of relationships or lots of casual sex, but it's taught me so much. Yeah. Yeah. And really opened my eyes. Yeah, that's Bring it that's the fun part. That's the fun part. Right?

5:04 That's the fun part. We got into the lifestyle for the same kind of same reasons. I'm bisexual and so I was never, um, in my culture, Latinas we're not, my parents raised me. You don't date your same gender. Mm-hmm. And it's not something that, you know, it's very religious driven, old school mentality of thinking mentality. So I kept that in for many years. Got married to men. This is my third marriage. Um, and he, this one's gonna stick, this one's gonna stick, this one's gonna work. You know? And so yeah, the lifestyle was letting me expand that and actually embrace my bisexuality. And I think that's the one fun part that I love and that I can connect with you on that.

5:48 Like, that's exactly what's the fun part? We did poly, but we know we did poly for five years and that's kind of where we our thinking kind of changes. I am, uh, more poly oriented. I, I like the relationship aspect, the connection in, in that. Obviously I love every sexual aspect of it, but, uh, that's a given for me. Mm-hmm. But. I also really like the relationship portion of it. Mm-hmm. And that's where Pris really struggled was being able to kind of let go and say, okay, it's okay. Uh, yeah. That, that we do things separate from each other and that sort of thing. So, and, but she's come a long way as well.

6:30 And, and she's always learning new. We're all learning new things really through our experiences. So it's a lot of fun. But this isn't about us. Stop talking about us. Stop it. Rosie, I, I, I'm gonna, I'm gonna just dive right in. Can you tell us about thiskindofgirl? Uh, what made you start writing so openly about non-monogamy and relationships? Yeah. Okay, so, first of all, the name, thiskindofgirl, it came about because I when we had COVID and it was the first like, wave of COVID and everything was locked down. My job at the time, my, my regular job, I worked in hospitality and we, you know, we couldn't work from home because everything was shut down, all the restaurants.

7:10 So I was at home and I was, doing the online dating and kind of like, because I was reason recently single at that, that point. And I was like, what am I gonna do? I'm gonna look online. And I remember talking to somebody and I was trying to describe the type of woman that I am, that I was bisexual, that I was a bit of a free spirit, not your average woman. And I said, I was that kind of girl. And that's kind of like stuck that, that phrase stuck in my mind. I dunno what happened to the conversation. Probably lost interest, but, you know, that stuck in my mind and. When I, I've been thinking about wanting to share my experience because I'd had all these experiences of, of being at the Swinger Clubs in London and it's very much a kind of like an international crowd.

7:56 'cause you get so many people there, tourists on holidays and couples and it's, you can be anyone you want to be, have sex with anyone you want to, you know, that's, for me, that's the beauty of, of such a big city. And I'd had all these experiences, I'd not been able to talk to any of my friends about it. And it was all like bubbling away inside me and I wanted an outlet for that. And also I thought back to when I first started in the lifestyle, I was in my early twenties, I was very young. There was no help online. These are days before influencers, before social media got message, there was a blog I found written from a US based couple who were probably in their fifties. You know, I couldn't relate to those people. I didn't understand the language, the terminology.

8:39 They didn't look like me. They didn't sound like me. And I thought, you know what? I have got such a story to tell, and I didn't want anybody else struggling like I did. And I thought there must be other young women out there who are curious about this. So I just, that's how it started. And I just sat at my kitchen table during COVID and I just started writing and I realized it felt so cathartic to get it out. And I was like, I loved it. I loved how handed I could be, and finally I could just share all these things that had happened. Yeah. And that, that's how it started. And it's just like slowly grown from there really.

9:19 Yeah. So COVID was the aha moment. Yeah. And, and it was for a lot, for a lot of people. Um, yeah, I think so. Yeah. Um, how has the UK community responded compared to what you see globally? To be honest the UK community have the UK community don't realize how lucky they are, I believe because we live on a tiny island and if you wanna drive somewhere, like maybe it's two or three hours is far for people here. And there are swinger clubs in most major towns. And there's a pretty, for me, there's a pretty, you know, major cities, you're gonna find a swing club, you're gonna find people. There's a lot going on, I believe, compared to other countries.

10:01 Um, you don't have to get on a plane and fly to a different state. Um, so I believe people have got it pretty good. And also I think because people. In the uk we have a luxury where we can be pretty much whoever we want to be. We don't have as many religious constraints as what other countries do, as other communities do. So I believe we're on a pretty juicy position. You know, we can go, we can be a 50-year-old man and go down the street in stockings and suspenders. I've seen this myself, you know, in London at two o'clock in the afternoon. And you can do that around soho and nobody cares. Yeah, nobody cares. You know, you may get a few looks, but essentially it offers you the, you know, the freedom you don't wanna get.

10:42 You may get politely reprimanded by a police officer, but essentially what I'm saying is you can be who you want to be. Yeah. And that is the beauty of, of I think living in the uk. But I think the sets of problems that people have if you like, or the obstacles are so different. Yeah. But I have been pretty, pretty well received, I would say, but also there's like quite a big sudden like, uh, emergence of polyamorous relationships in the media over here in TV shows, in newspapers, in magazines. People are suddenly realizing that there's a whole load of people out there who are potentially their next door neighbors who are into this, who are living alternatively.

11:26 So it's not as taboo as it used to be. Yeah. It's become mainstream, really. And I think definitely, I think the, uh, the pandemic lockdown had a lot to do with that. It seems like everybody was home, everybody was bored and they were searching for new things online and they started seeing things and went, oh, let's give this a shot. Yeah. I think a lot of the people that we talked to have. They started during the pandemic, or right after the pandemic. Yeah. Which is interesting. Now, you know what I love about this is that, you know, we've talked to a lot of people in our state, in, in our country but I have personally wondered about other countries and stereotypes, Rosie.

12:06 Mm-hmm. Let's talk stereotypes because mm-hmm. Uh, you know, we deal with them here. And I'm just curious, you know, you've written beautifully about the misconceptions around open relationships. Mm-hmm. What are the biggest myths you still hear all the time? That swinging is for middleclass couples in suburbia. That swinging is something you do when you are, you know, you've been married for 20, 30 years and you are bored of each other. Or swinging is something that, I don't know whether you have it in the States, but like, there's certain symbols people have like pamper grass outside the house or like upside down Pineapples in windows. Yeah. Or certain, certain, like gone garden ornaments or certain decorations or drives a certain type of car or, and people kind of associate it with like this, almost like cigar smoking 1980s medallion.

13:00 But, but they do. And I've heard people say, oh, that's something those types of people do, you know, like wife swapping keys in bowls. Yeah. Leisure suit, Larry kind of Yeah. Scuzzy you know. Yeah. Yeah. And, and uh, that, that's what people kind of associate with the word swinger. And it's hard for people to kinda like, understand that you can be a swinger, but you can also be a, mid twenties single professional who enjoys going to clubs, who enjoys meeting people. But it's also, you know, dating ethically, non-monogamous and, and doing all the things you don't have to fit into that mold. Yeah. So that's. I would say that is the main kind of like stereotype that it's for older, disgruntled, dissatisfied, middle class, well wealthy as well as well.

13:44 And, and also I, I don't know whether you guys have touched on this, but like people associate it with old white people. Yes. It's been, it's been de it's been mentioned before. Yeah. And, and, and it is, and that's usually what where we actually found ourselves is when we were first starting, it was a lot of older, rich, white people. Um, and now the culture has definitely changed from then to now. It has. And we've, we've even done episodes on, on how expensive the lifestyle can be. Oh yeah. And you know, you really have to ask yourself. If it's a, you know, obviously you don't need money to enjoy non-monogamy and you don't need money to enjoy swinging, but it helps.

14:28 It does. Yes. Yeah. I guess now talking about that, do you think the culture and the media that, that they've shaped the narrative around polyamory and swinging because of all of this? Like, you know, how we always stereotype it. Do you think like social media has helped that? Um, I think it's helping change views. I think now because with the rise of the influencer although I, I don't view my, I don't class myself as an influencer. I probably am, but I never set out to be. But there's certainly, you're totally an influencer. There are polyamory influencers and, and different couples and people who I've met and met who have gone on, you know, with within the lifestyle.

15:10 I'm like, oh yeah, you do that. So they're kind of like changing the narrative and showing people that it's younger people, it's people with kids, it's people who have, regular kind of nine to five jobs who also do this. They're very happily married. And I think it's kind of like it narrative is changing, especially with shows. There's been a show on channel four, open House, great sex experiment, which I have my own views on. But again, a lot of people from who, who were part of that were kind of 40 and under, which is still class as young in, in lifestyle. But I think, you know, views are changing. Just slowly. Yeah, for sure. It's coming.

15:50 It's coming. It's happening. Yeah, it's coming. Have you noticed differences between how men and women are judged for non-monogamy? Absolutely. But also I think these days. Men don't, you don't hear it as much anymore. Like, the single go get a women, like how I have been the single sexually liberated go getting woman who is say, you know, she will do whatever she wants to do on her terms with whoever she wants to do it with. And I haven't faced as much negativity for that as maybe I would've done 10 years ago or 15 years ago. Maybe that's also because I remove myself from an environment where I would face negativity.

16:33 Mm. If you surround yourself with people who are gonna cheer you on in an environment which cheers you on, then you're probably not gonna get it. But yeah, you know, there is al you know, people are always gonna be negative about how single men and single women enjoy the lifestyle, not involved. One thing I see time and time again is single guys are, I think, unfairly stigmatized when they wanna enjoy the lifestyle or, you know, go to a swingers club and they get labeled straight away. Or maybe they're going on a date with somebody and they share that they've been to a swingers club. They're immediately tarnished with this brush of, of being this like, disgusting sex obsessed, yeah.

17:15 And, and that, that's not fair. So I think both sexes do experience it, but I think there's not as much. Well, I hope there's not as much negativity directed at, at, at single women anymore. Yeah. I think, I mean, yeah, we have a lot of single women friends and they, I think they're more lusted after than anything else. They think they're more lusted after. Yeah. And it's, we try to keep. We, whenever we go out with them, we try to keep them safe and whatever, but it is, it is a stigma sometimes I think, for both. Both. Especially the men, the single men. Yeah. They do get pointed out sometimes. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. It's just that little world. It is unfortunate. It is unfortunate.

17:56 Now, you talk a lot about self-awareness and emotional honesty in your blog. What's, mm-hmm. The biggest lesson that you've learned about yourself through this lifestyle? I think it was having the ability or the capacity to give my consent without needing to be actively involved. This was huge for me because up until, and this wasn't that long ago, it was only a few years ago, up until that point, I'd always been in relationships where we would go to a swingers club together. We'd meet a a, a woman together, we'd meet a guy together, everything was done within the same room, and I was absolutely fine with that. I would do whatever with who, you know, and I was very open-minded, whatever scenario.

18:38 But then when my partner at the time turned around to me and said, look, yes, we're swingers. Yes, you are my dominant, but I also want to be in an open relationship where I go and meet with gay couples and other couples. And I knew there wasn't a part, there wasn't a role for me in that, you know. It was really hard, and I had to, I was absolutely terrified. I felt like I'd gone back 10 years, you know, back to where I was, and I was, again, that woman sat on the bed going, I don't know if I can allow this to happen. I dunno if I can give my co I don't know if this is right. You know? And I had to, I was shit scared, you know?

19:20 I was terrified again, and I felt like a fraud. I felt like, yeah, but you're Rosie kay. You teach me plus to do this, you should know. You should be better, you know? And I beat myself up about it for, you know, a week or so, and I, I struggled. And then I came to him and I said, look, I'm really, really frightened of what could happen because I'm scared of losing you. I'm scared of not being good enough for you, of you finding something. These are the people that I can't give you, but I love you and I love the fact that we have this bizarre at times relationship. 'cause he was also like 20 years older than me. So it was a lot going on there. Yeah. Uh, but I loved it 'cause it was so bizarre.

20:01 And I loved that he could be himself around me and he'd come to me and gone, look, I really wanna experience this. So I said, okay we don't know till we try. So he went off 'cause he was very bisexual. He went off to go and do his thing with his friends, et cetera. And for the first hour or so, I was absolutely terrified. I was like anxious. I was checking my phone. I couldn't relax. But then I kind of like got into it and I was like, okay. He'll come home to me. Oh well. And when he came through the door, he was so ecstatic. Because he'd gone and had this experience that was completely separate to me, which was indulgent.

20:42 And he'd come home and I was there to like, support him and, and listen to it. And it didn't actually affect us at all. It just made us even stronger. And yeah, it was brilliant. And I was like, oh my God, how is this possible? But it was brilliant. And also I realized that one of the main things, I'm gonna be very blunt, one of the main things that he got from that, which I obviously don't have, is a cock. Like, so I can't compete with that. That's a physical thing that he wants. It's a physical act that they're not my competition. Right. Right. Like that's separate to me. And even when he went to play with the couples, like the male female couples mm-hmm.

21:26 Like again, they've got their own thing going on. They're not in competition with me. I don't have to compete with them. Go and do your thing. And it was scary. But that was probably the biggest eyeopener for me because I've then gone on to teach other couples how to do it. Yeah. Like how, how you can, yeah. You know, how you can navigate that through that. Yeah. Through that. Like jel-, I mean, I call it jealousy, but it is just, it's maybe more than jealousy. It's more just uncomfortable feelings. Feelings. 'cause sometimes you, you have to just find, find a way to navigate it. Yeah. Uh, I love the fact that he was excited to come tell you about it.

22:07 That, that to me says that even though you weren't there. You were there. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like Yeah. Yeah. He was very excited to come share it with you. And, and those are experiences that we've talked about as well, where, you know, I I'm not bisexual, but me going off and, and doing my own thing and then coming back and being able to share it with her, you know, I'm not hiding it. I'm not going, well, I don't want to talk about it with you. Uh, she's my best friend, so obviously I, I would wanna share that with her. But also, also, like she said, um, like you said, you don't have, you don't have a cock. You can't really share that. Right. So the bisexuality for me, yeah. He doesn't have a vagina. He can't, and yeah.

22:47 It's like, go out and, and have that. Now I don't always share the same compassion as he does for me as I do, you know, like it's not always the same. Mm-hmm. Because I'm still trying to navigate through my mm-hmm. Insecurities and jealousy and stuff like that. Mm-hmm. But I do love that you you write about that and you help others express that and, you know, kind of find their way. Mm-hmm. Um. I did wanna ask you, what's your advice for someone who's just kind of starting to explore non-monogamy, who's feeling that nervousness and unsure feelings and that uncomfortable feelings, like what do you, what kind of advice could you give them? I think the first bit of advice or the first point of call is remember that firstly everybody who's you're meeting at a swing club, you'll meet us social, whatever.

23:34 They've all been there. We all know what it's like. We all are shitting ourselves inside at some point, you know? Right. We're all, we've all been absolutely terrified, but at the same time, deeply curious and, really excited to get started, but at the same time terrified. We all know what it's like and sometimes when you are honest with people and you, you know, you approach a couple and you say, look. I'm really excited to be here, but I'm absolutely terrified of this, this, whatever. I'm really frightened of what could happen. It just kinda like brings a groundedness to, to that interaction because they can relate to that. And you're saying, look, I'm actually quite vulnerable. I'm actually quite scared. This is what's going through my mind right now.

24:16 Have you been there too? And guarantee 100% of the time they have been there too. And it's relatable. So that, you know, opening up with that kind of conversation, but also understanding that, and I say this to women especially time and time again, although women are not your competition. Insecurity and doubt and worry and fear, it stems from you. Mm-hmm. Your insecurities are what feeds it. And when you realize that not just in ethical NoMy, but in life. Yes. Once you realize that other women are not your competition, you will have a much better life experience. Yes. Nevermind sexual experience and also with men as well. I think it's different for men because how we perceive a sexual encounters and encounters in swimming club is different, but especially with women, like stop viewing all these women as your competition or somebody who's gonna swoop in and take your man if you feel instantly less because another woman you believe is more just by her being there, the woman is not the problem.

25:15 You are the problem. Yes. And that Rosie i, I love you. I just wanna say that. I just wanna get that outta the way right now. I love you. That is very true, and it's something that a lot of women and I say women because, you know, I'm a woman, and so a lot of women, especially when we get to this age of hormonal change, right? I'm 47 and, and menopause has hit you. You, I feel like the insecurities when you're teenagers. Hit even more, like you kind of have this balance of back and forth and, you know, it doesn't, it doesn't help that at times the lifestyle feels like, like school, like high school, like adolescence all over again. Yes, yes. Absolutely. Um, I know when, when we first started, I had a hard time in high school.

25:58 Like, I, I wasn't great with the ladies, you know, and so I missed out on a lot of opportunities and there was a lot of things that I wanted to be able to enjoy that seemed like the stereotypical high school and, and early college adventure that I did not get to take part in. Uh, so when we started in the lifestyle, I had all sorts of insecurities because it was like, oh, well they just want her because she's a beautiful woman and I'm getting sidestepped and nobody's interested in me and what's wrong with me? And, you know, just all of these, uh, internal issues and insecurities that I had with myself from high school. And I remember discussing it with her and saying, you know, I just I don't like this feeling and I need to figure it out.

26:41 2025, for those who are avid listeners of our podcast, they realize that 2025 is the year of confident Adam. And so, as of January 1st, 2025, I said, I'm gonna be confident. I'm gonna walk in there and just shake things up a little bit. And I will say, you know, the whole fake it till you make it thing works because I faked it until I made it. And that doesn't apply to orgasms, by the way, but I faked it and I made it. And I feel confident now, and I don't feel like I'm stuck in that adolescence space. Yeah. Uh, you know, I just, I, I really enjoyed that and that kind of ties into where I'm going with this.

27:23 I know it was hard to see that there was a light at the end of the tunnel there, but. I told a beautiful story there. You did. I like your writing because it blends this education with a personal storytelling. I mean, even just talking to you now, you're a great storyteller. I love it. Thank you. Now, my question to you is, do you see yourself more as a writer, a teacher, or a guide or like all three, you know what I mean? Like do you I I, I know it's hard for us to say, well, this is how I view myself without coming off as you know, a. Elevated more than everybody else. None of us want to be like that.

28:03 But if you had to place something on yourself there, elevate yourself, girl. Elevate yourself. That's right. Uh, so a writer, teacher or guide, what I would say is that as this surprises many people, as somebody who is naturally an introverted person, I'm very happy in my writing space because I can shut myself away and I can do it. And I feel like I can just pour out my heart and soul as I do onto the pages. And it's authentic and it's me. But that's because I'm an introverted person and people don't always realize that because I'm also somebody who is a coach and a guide. And I'm, I've somebody once said to me, you are, you are kind of like a you are kind of a therapist, but you're more like a self-help kind of like cheering people on and getting 'em to see a diff like a self-improvement, which I, I, I kind of do as well because a lot of, well of.

28:54 What I teach people is, has come through my own mistakes and, and not wanting to live a certain way anymore. Yeah, I, I mean, I'm a mix of, of all three. I'm also people's confidant as well. You know, people, couples open up and they talk to me and, and single people, they talk to me about things that they've never shared because I offer a non-judgmental space because it's my job, you know, to listen. And yeah, I, I'm a mixture of all three. I love that. I love that. I love being all three, you know? Yeah. It's brilliant. I love that. I made my own, you know, my own job title. I created this, I, I, I love it.

29:35 And I'm so proud of that, it's brilliant. I love that. It's neat because you kind of created your own community, but you touched on, on something that I, I, I'd like to go back to, and in the fact that you're introverted. We talk to a lot of content creators and other I guess you could say coaches or counselors in this field, and a lot of people who are in the forefront and usually being seen by an audience, including us are introverted. I am majorly introverted at times, times I'm the best She's not. And, and that's where we balance. But I have said this over and over again and people seem to not believe it is that I am introverted. Um, and we kind of started a lot of this so that I could work on getting my way out of there and being able to socialize with people better.

30:24 But I've noticed that a lot of people that we talk to are introverted. Mm-hmm. Now with you being introverted and with you being the. The face of thiskindagirl. Mm-hmm. People are turning to you, I'm sure, en mass. How do you handle that? Like how, how do you deal with it being an introverted person? Going back to what you said about faking it till you make it. When I first started doing my finger club reviews and, traveling around the UK and, and going swing clubs and writing about them. That was a brand new thing for me. I was doing it as a single woman. I was rocking up to places, town, cities I've never been to before.

31:05 I was absolutely terrified. Wow. But I knew that it was my brand that was on show. It was somebody who was saying, she's so fucking good at the lifestyle. I'm gonna teach other people how to do this. So I had to fake it till I made it. I had to ooze confidence and charm and charisma, and b, talk to everybody and show everybody the same amount of respects and attention and be gracious and be professional. And it was fucking hard, you know? But I became so accustomed to it because that was my brand that was on show. And I learned that separate that when I was doing those things and when I'm coaching people, I'm a brand and I'm a product, and I'm not, I'm not the deep down real me.

31:48 I am what I've created. And I find it easy to kind of separate the two because the introvert Yes. Version of me. The real version is she's not everybody would be that interested in her. Like she ain't that, she ain't that exciting. Like she's exciting, but she also likes reading books about the paranormal and you know, I'm a cat mom. Yeah. Uh, you know, like it's not that exciting. Yeah. But the other version of me, you know, it is pretty bloody exciting. So that's how I kind of like, it's like almost like when I stepped into my shoes and I did my makeup in that way, I became coach Lindsay Kay. And I'm here and I was talking to you all and it's so lovely to meet you.

32:31 And I became so good at that and I realized that I could turn it off and turn it on when I was in this role. And that's how I kinda like manage it, if you like. Yeah. But yeah, it does get overwhelming. And, and one thing I, this sounds sad, sympathetic, but I'll share it anyway. Um. I remember I went up to, uh, I went up to Liverpool here in the uk and I was doing like reviews of, of a swinger club over different nights. Same club, but like different nights, different events. And so many people were interested, they wanted to talk to me and they wanted to hear my opinions. And I was like, had great nights talking to all these people, doing interviews, doing all this, you know, content and all these wonderful things. Came back to my hotel and just absolutely burst into tears because nobody at that time, I just felt like nobody was interested in me.

33:20 Oh. And I felt like such a pathetic mess. But I realized also the, almost the monster I'd created. And I realized at that point what it was like to be a brand and a personal brand. And I realized that maybe it's great, but it's not all it's cracked up to be. Because at that moment when I got back to the hotel and. I looked at my real life and I looked at like all the, the bullshit dating that was going on and all the breadcrumb stuff, and I was like yeah. It, it's not always a good, and, and I kind of like thought and I have that reality check. So I've always kept grounded, you know, and I've never allowed it to become, I've never bought into it.

34:03 Does that make sense? Yes. Oh, absolutely. Yes. Like, I've kind of like been Yeah. You know, being Rosie Kay is great and she's amazing and she's sexy and she's all these things, but she's not all of me. Yeah. She's a part of me. Yeah. Now, does, does she ever make appearances in your personal relationships still? She can do she can do, but my, to be honest, my own relationship that I have now is with a guy who is. Well, he's the more dominant partner, I would say. Okay. In, in that, in that role. So that's different again. But also, he's somebody who I see, he like, he is an equal to me.

34:48 And he like, so he d he does follow my advice, but also I listen to, this is major for me. I listen to him and follow his advice, which I haven't really done that much with men in the past. That's love baby. That, so that is a very different experience for me. So we're both equals and we've always viewed each other as equal contributors to this relationship, to this family thing we got going on. And it's so different, you know? And it's, yeah, I mean, she does make appearances, but also I think now. I am able to offer so much more insight about relationships and about this female self-improvement and not settling for less.

35:30 So we know when younger members of my family come to me and go, oh, you know, I've experienced this, or Friends have treated me like this, or I've been, all this bullshit that we go through as teenagers. I'm like, right, okay. This is what you need to do. Or this is why this doesn't work. So I am able to kind of like share that insight and, and that guidance with people that I, I wouldn't have been able to do before. But I do keep the worlds very separate. I love that. I love that. Now we're gonna start digging into some society shame and empowerment. So how do you see shame showing up in con in conversations around sexuality, especially for women? I, I think some, I think bisexual women and how we are viewed.

36:19 Is we bisexual women will always be viewed as hot property or it's cool to be bisexual or it's sexy to be bisexual. And I think very often, or should I say more often now, women are able to express their sexuality more without fear of shame so much. Mm-hmm. I think sometimes within certain circles you can't always share or you don't feel comfortable sharing, but I think there's not as much stigma attached to it. I mean, I, I dunno where, what it's like where you guys are based, but here we have female only parties, female only socials where women can simply get together who are all bisexual or, or, or gay. And, you know, have a good time or, or meet people who are like-minded.

37:01 So there's not as much as there probably used to be and there's certainly safe spaces for them. Yeah, you just gave me a brilliant idea. I love that. First of all, I'm gonna have to go visit you, so sorry, honey. Well, no, A trip like that is not gonna be a female only Oh, trip. I'll come too. You, you can, you can hang out. Amazing. Yeah. No. Um, bisexuality here's probably, It's, it's a hot commodity out here. It's a hot commodity. Bisexual women, especially single bisexual women Yeah. Are considered a commodity. Yeah. Uh, and we, we've done a whole show on it. And to date, it's one of our more popular shows, uh, about the quote unquote unicorn in the lifestyle.

37:43 Yeah. But what I find is talking to a, a lot of single women in the lifestyle is they don't care for that term, for one thing. Yeah. Uh, they don't care for the being put on a pedestal and feeling like they're a, a hot commodity. Uh, but also, where we're at in Texas, where we used to be at previously in South Texas. A lot of the lifestyle was very man led. Yes. Mm-hmm. In a very, almost a misogynistic kind of way. Mm-hmm. And these were a lot of newer people or people with toxic traits who didn't really do their research about the lifestyle. They just knew they wanted to have sex with other people.

38:24 Mm-hmm. Yeah. And so that's, and I'm sure that exists everywhere. Yeah. But it was very prevalent where we were at. And so being able to be where we're at now Yeah. And seeing a lot of the women empowerment and see, and you know, my wife is a very big advocate for women empowerment and she tries to help other women find their voice and mm-hmm. And find their No. And be able to, to do all of that. But we forget that this is really geographical at times. Definitely. Yeah. So I, I find that so, interesting. I, I'm pretty sure that now that you've put this little nugget of information in her head, she's gonna be doing an all female social or so, that sort of thing.

39:13 It's, it should be interesting. I'll spend a lot of nights at home alone. Well, so I, I think they're popular in the uk also, again, going back to what I said, because you can be whoever you want to be. Here in the uk we don't have as much, the religious constraints. People aren't only religious over here. And so it's not, it's not as much as a, a taboo subject. So I think also PE women have that freedom, but also I think, and this is, this is interesting. I believe that. If you are in a relationship like, like I am now, in you relationship with a man, it's almost like bisexuality, female bisexuality isn't viewed as a threat. It's like almost like, oh, well she's bisexual.

39:54 Yes. She'd never leave me for a woman. Yes. Like if my partner wasn't Ollie was correct to be like, I would like, it doesn't take me much like it, it's rare for me to be in a long-term relationship with a man because I'm not a massive fan of men. And I do believe that for a lot of men out there, they like, oh, you know, she's just bisexual. It's just women having a bit of fun. Rosie, you're a UK version of me. I love it. I'm the same way. I, I, yeah. I'm ex exactly what you said. I've said it a thousand times. Have you times met women? I know, right? It's, um, well, there are some men who get who get insecure about it. My husband, they find that they're, yeah.

40:36 Uh, wives or, or spouses or partners. Or bisexual. Yeah. My first two, actually, my first two last relationships were very insecure about that. Yeah. Like, I could not even bring that up because it was like, yeah. Nope. And I celebrated. Yeah. You know, when, when I found out, you know, she came out to me when we first started dating. Mm-hmm. And I really said, you know, I would love for us to experience this not only for myself, obviously that was a good portion of it, but also so that she could experience and, and have her enjoyment. And then when we became poly, that was really where I told her, I, I was like, you know, you've never had a relationship with a woman. You should really be able to explore that. Yeah. You know? Yeah, for sure. And so it I think out here, you know, obviously there, there is a lot of, uh, stigma because of the religious aspect of it.

41:23 Here. In the States, and it seems to be pretty relevant. So there's a lot of judgment out here and a lot of people who live in fear Uh, of being openly themselves. Yeah. You know? Oh, for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, uh, with that being said, what can we all do as creators, as podcasters and community members? What can we do to make the conversation around sexuality and relationships more compassionate and inclusive? I think we can try and move away from. A lot of people talk to me about judgment and talk to me about shame and say, oh, well what will people think?

42:07 And well, what, you know, what will my family think? Or what will society think? Or what if people from my church find out, or, you know, what, ultimately you are the one who's leading your own life and you are in control of what happens on that journey. You are in control of, you know, who you meet. And the, you are the only one who is steering the ship, essentially. And I often find that people, that's like their biggest hangup for so many people is what will other people think of me? And it kind of pains me because for me, I've always been my, my, you know, my motto is, do what you want in life, not what's expected of you. And it's, that has been my motto for like forever and I've led my life that way.

42:50 And I just think that as content creators, we need to show people that we are doing that. And I, I, I believe that I do. And I think if we truly believe that we are the only ones who are in charge, if we want to go to an all woman social, we should fucking go to an all woman social. If we want to set up something, if we wanna try out having a relationship with a woman, why not? You know, go and do it. Because if you are in a place where your relationship is strong enough and you yourself are strong enough to see that bigger picture and go, you know what? I'm gonna do this for the greater good, uh, for the greater good, for the greater good. Like, I need this, babe. I need this. Go out and enjoy it because you only get one chance. And Moab like, like having different experiences with different types of people or even just going and talking to different types of people.

43:36 When you talk about inclusivity and things like that, I think one of the biggest eye openers I had was. I did a speed dating event where I was given a talk at a speed dating event and at the speed dating event, it was for ENM people, but there were like people there who were like wheelchair users and non-binary people, and people who you, who I myself would never talk to because they simply didn't fit in my social circle. But in that environment, I realized there were so many people out there who I could talk to who would broaden my perspectives. I learned so much about the world of less able bodied dating just from having those conversations or just by, you know, speaking to non-binary people and that, that the, the, the hurdles that they faced.

44:20 And I think, yeah, just, just does that make sense? Like just go, go and explore and, yeah. I love that. In other words, get out of your head. Get out of your head. Yeah. Get out of your head. Stop worrying about what the people think. Live life. You know what? If you wanna go along and chat away to people and learn more about their experiences. Why not? Why not? Absolutely. Yeah. I that's great. That's great. Now I, Rosie, I'm, uh, we're gonna have a little fun with this right here. As we're starting to come to a, a wrap, I want you to answer this with as little thinking as possible, because I, I know as, as writers, we tend to really dig into the back for, for a really good response.

45:01 I want whatever's in the forefront. Okay. Okay. What is your favorite thing about being non-monogamous? Being bi. Like getting to just sex with women. Yeah. Yeah. That's actually my favorite part about being non-monogamous is the sex with women. So we have a lot in common. I love that. I think she was, I had it in my head. I was like, women. And really, I mean, we, we can all agree. I mean, the lifestyle is really women-centric. Yeah. If you take the women out of it. Yeah. There's really no fun. I mean, it depends on who you are, but I mean, a lot of it is women-centric. Yeah. And I think a lot of women need to realize if they haven't already, that they kind of rule the roost on this.

45:44 I've, I've tried telling women that, but, you know. Yeah. We haven't ruled the world yet. We're getting there though. We're gonna, yeah. Okay. Now, I don't know, I, I mean, this question may be easy, but one UK lifestyle misconception you'd love to clear up. That you can't just walk into any swingers club and just like pay a certain amount of money and that guarantees you. Sex. You can't just go and say, you know what? I've paid a hundred pounds, 150 pounds. Therefore that entitles me because this is something which I see time and time again, especially with single guys and sometimes with couples as well, I've paid hundred 50 pounds, why am I not getting anywhere that's globally?

46:27 Yeah. That is globally. So, yeah. But you know, yeah. Yeah. But I, I see that, you know, all, all like all the time and it seems to be whatever club as well, you know, whether it's a really exclusive members club or a, you know, more pay, casual pay on the door type thing. That mentality expectant mentality is Yeah. Is huge. Yeah. Especially with people who have money. Yeah. I mean, it's just, uh, I, I've known a lot of people who have really, really great vast amount of money and they, a lot of them have that mentality that they can just buy whatever they want. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And buy, buy whoever they want. And it's like, yeah. It don't work that way. You, yeah.

47:08 Now, if you had to describe thiskindagirl in three words, what would they be? Sexy. Oh, I don't know. I'm not sexy. That's, that's okay. You can take your time with this one. That's a good question. This is very much like when I say to people, you know, what do you write in your dating profile or what, you know, tell me what you like and they don't know. I think three words to describe me is probably excitable adult. Or like adult in nature. Yeah. And I dunno what's the word for kind of like, somebody wants subscribe, somebody wants to describe me as a shepherdess, like guiding my sheep, like shepherd of the lifestyle.

48:02 Very educational. Yeah, educational. Because I do see myself as that. Like, you're a guide but not motherly. There you go. You like, there you go. Yeah. So prob So maybe like, like shepherd us. That's not that. I would, I don't, I dunno. I don't know. Three words. Oh, it's very typical, isn't it? Um, RO Rosie, you're, you're a writer. I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna point that out. You're a writer. You, you gotta know these words. I know you have. I know, I know. I'm sorry. I'm just giving you a hard time. Describe you. Just meeting you. I would be confident. Sexy. And I know. Bold. I would say bold.

48:43 Bold and confidence. I know. They kind of go together. Yeah. Those no, bold is, I like bold. Right. If I had to come, I would use bold. Yeah. Knowledgeable. Yes. And experienced. There you go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. True. Yeah. True. Unapologetic is a good one. I apologetic. Unapologetic. Bold. I don't wanna say confrontational 'cause that's more of me on a personal level, but I'll fight for the underdog. I will fight for, the woman who's been wronged. I will fight for the people I feel are not passion. Yeah. Definitely. Passionate. Passionate. See, I love that. Wow. This is, this is so much better. Look at that. You and Pris actually have a lot in common. I know. That's why it was easy for me to come up with words. 'cause I'm like, I'm describing my wife over here.

49:25 Yeah. Uh, Rosie, this has been such a beautiful conversation. Thank you for joining us and bringing. A heart and honesty to the lifestyle. Like I love that. Absolutely. Now you can find Rosie's work and writing at thiskindagirl.co.uk and we'll have that in our show notes as well as anything else you can find. Yeah. Uh, all Rosie k this kind of girl will be in our show notes. You can find it there. Uh, seriously, go check it out. Her articles are raw, relatable, and full of that spark. That reminds us why we all do this. Yes, yes, yes. And if you love today's conversation, don't forget to check out all of our past episodes at beyond-monogamy.com.

50:06 You can also stream us every Thursday at 1:00 PM and 6:00 PM Central on full swap radio.com. Oh, man, that was smooth. We're on all the socials too. We're on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok X, formerly Twitter, Reddit, and YouTube. And we have our, discord community as well. So be sure and check that out. Yes, yes. So make sure you like, subscribe, and leave us a review. It helps these conversations keep growing and going. Yeah. Yeah. Rosie, thank you again for hanging out with us today and for reminding everyone that being this kind of girl means being bold, open, and unapologetically yourself. That is, thank you.

50:47 Incredible. Thank you. It's a reminder for all of us. And with that, thank you all for listening and we will see you guys next week. Bye.