The Original Swingers: Sam L. Feldman on Hookups, Hiccups & Freedom

0:07 Alright y'all, before we dive in, a quick heads up. This show is raw, real, and definitely not rated pg. We're talking about adult themes, sexual content, and the kind of stuff you probably don't want blasting through your speakers at work or around your kits. So grab some headphones, pour your drink of choice and get comfy. Oh, and just so we're clear, we are not licensed therapists, counselors, or sex. Couches. Sex coaches. Sex coaches, not sex couches or just a couple of people sharing our lives, experiences and sexy adventures.

0:47 An ethical non-monogamy. So with that, pull up a chair and enjoy the show. And. Hello, and welcome to another episode of Beyond Monogamy. I'm Adam. And I'm Pris. And today we are hopping in the time machine and heading back to the original sexual revolution. Yep. Before lifestyle was a lifestyle before SDC, before three. Fun. Before anybody said ethical non-monogamy. That's right. Our guest. Sam l Feldman didn't just study it, he lived it. He's the author of Hookups, hiccups, and Happenstances, A Wild Ride through the sixties and seventies full of hookups that made headlines, hiccups, that taught lessons and happenstances that changed how people saw love.

1:30 And yes, if you're watching this on YouTube, that's his book sitting right there on our table. That's right. That's right. Sam's stories are raw, funny, and deeply human. Kind of like what happens when you first open your relationship and realize, oh, this isn't as simple as I thought it was. So get comfy. We're talking about what the early days of sexual liberation can teach us about swinging communication, jealousy, and connection today. So welcome, Sam. Yes. Welcome Sam. Thank you so much for. Thank you all. I've been looking forward to this. I'm thrilled to be here so. Let's let it happen. Yeah. You know, I, I, I will tell you, I am a, I used to describe myself as a history buff, and I did a lot of reading and, uh, you know, I, I didn't get to touch up so much on the sexual revolutions of the sixties and seventies, but my parents were of that era.

2:18 Yeah. Um, and so I'm, I was really curious and I've had your book for a while and I got to get through it, and it was a lot of. Fun, a really enjoyable book. Uh, now we're gonna dive right in in hookups, hiccups and happenstances. You talk about discovering freedom before it had a label. How did people find each other back then without apps, websites and swinger apps and swinger clubs? That's a damn good question. And you know, it was happenstance, I would say. Uh. A lot of it was happenstance. We, back in the sixties and seventies, of course, there was no such terminology as ethical non-monogamy.

3:00 So the closest to it would've been key clubs. Neighborhood key clubs. That was the beginning, I would say, of the sexual revolution as far as non-monogamy. So key clubs. And then outside of that as far as Butch and his experiences in, in the book. It was meetings. It was again, happenstances and being in the right place at the right time. Sometimes they weren't the happy, periods that you would hope they'd be. But there was no such thing as filling out an application or going online and talking about your kinks and trying to match up with somebody who had the same kinks.

3:42 I mean, it is unimaginable. I'm 86 years old and, uh, been married 62 years to the same wonderful woman. But to again, go out and say, what are your kinks? Let's hook up tonight and. That's it. Yeah. So inconceivable it happened very naturally back then as opposed to not very, yeah, it's very technical. It's very, um, there's a lot of rules. There's a lot of rules now, a lot of rules, a lot of labels, a lot of e every, everything's been well documented now. Yeah. Yep. A lot of reference. So you have to realize that this was, again, the beginning of the sexual revolution.

4:22 So. Women were able to have an abortion legally, right? They were able to purchase contraceptives. Uh, up until that time you had to be a couple, believe it or not, oh, to purchase contraceptives. So the law was passed where anyone could purchase contraceptives and then you had the pill. So women had the freedom now to be sexually active that they didn't have before without extremely dire consequences. Another part of that. In 1970, Reagan signed into law, no-fault divorce. And a lot of women were unable to get divorces, you know, their housewives.

5:03 They had no income. So if they were involved in a very bad, uh, marriage whatever it was, abuse, physical, mental, emotional, whatever. They couldn't get out of it 'cause they couldn't afford to, to hire a lawyer. So again, no fault divorce made it easy for them without having to prove adultery or again, you know, abuse, physical or mental abuse. So those freedoms gave women the opportunity to. Be human. Be human to have their human desires. That's right. And I want to tell you now, so if you look at my book, you read the first line of the book, it says, uh, these stories may never happen again.

5:44 And the last line says, don't let them take the joy out of sex. Then the book came out in 2003. That was before Trump was reelected when Trump got reelected. And they took over Congress, they took over the Senate and the White House, and it was, it's totally conservative. I, I don't have to tell you anything you don't know, but there's a conservative manifesto out there called Project 2025. Yeah. And Project 2025 wants to take women and put 'em back in the kitchen. Yeah, with an apron and kids all around their feet, they want to take away the, uh, the right and they've done that, the right to have illegal abortion. They want to take away the morning after pill.

6:25 You know, it's taking away those freedoms that women discovered back in the sixties and seventies. So you gotta be very careful. Project 2025. Also, there's something that you ought to be very concerned about because there's a provision in there that they want to ban pornography. They want to jail authors, producers like yourself who produce pornography in their definition of pornography and jail them. You people have to be concerned. You're not. If this ever passed, you're not gonna be able to have a program that's gonna talk about, um. Everything. Well, it's ev Yeah.

7:07 Everything I, I, I'm trying to, I'm trying to think of glory holes. You're not gonna be able to tell about Yeah. People's actively sucking the glory holes. Yeah. Yeah. Because they would throw you in jail for this. So it it is very, we can laugh now. Yeah. But if we don't stay on top of this and fight this it could happen. And again, women could lose their rights, so, oh, sounds, the sexual revolution was. Was, uh, an awakening and we don't want to go back to the dark ages. No. No we don't. And I am. Right there with you. I have daughters. I have lots of, female friends, and I am, 100% agreeing with you.

7:47 It's, it's, we don't want it to go backwards. It's too much fun. It's too much freedom, like, yeah. Yeah. And Pris is very empowered now. Yeah. She's, She's living her life. Yeah. Like I can be as free as I want and. Our daughters can be as free as they want. And that's exactly what, we, we thrive for. And you are, you are very right on all of that. So what, back then, what were the unwritten rules and how did folks handle things like jealousy and boundaries when no one was teaching it? Did y'all just naturally throw your men out? So there was, again, you have rules today. But back then, you know, with the hookup there was no dialogue as far as, well, let's look at the rule book or, check the boxes off.

8:33 So I can't answer that there was such a thing, but I can answer what in the book, Butch says, and Butch had his rules where, l the L word was never mentioned. You kept the L word off the table. If you wore your wedding ring. So you're gonna be honest with yourself and other people. No cheating? No, no. Everything was out in the open type of thing with everybody. Yeah. Okay. You know, there's a difference between physical love and emotional lover activity and so. The references in the book are going back to what physical they weren't emotional arrangements.

9:13 They were hookups and, and, um, you're just there in the moment. And so the, but if you, so the L word never came in. Like there was never any, any real kind of emotional commitment. It was literally just kind of just sex, hit it and quit it. Correct. However. The butch had his rules so that if the L word raised its head, it was gonna be like, let's talk about this, or let's not even talk about it. If it comes up again. Butch's rule was walk away. You have to walk away If the emotional starts to come in, the strictly sexual encounters, that's kind of like me.

9:56 Yeah, that is a lot. Like, that's very me right there. I, I'm all, I'm not emotional. I'm very. Technical, let's just do what we have to do. Yeah, yeah. You know, it's, it's very, um, very rigid, very, let's get down to brass tacks. Uh, there's, there's not a whole lot of emotion that passes through, and I'm the opposite. The L word can come up as much as it, as it needs to, but I, I'm gonna have my fun and I like to have the connection and I like to put in the time, you know, it just really, I, I want to say a lot more people are coming out and admitting that. They need more connection and less one night standish. I've seen that a lot lately now. Yeah. Now Sam, you call 'em hiccups, but they're basically the same mistakes people still make now overpromising under communicating, catching feelings, uh, or assuming everyone's on the same page.

10:44 Which of your hiccups from the book feel timeless? Like the kind of lessons every non-monogamous couple learns the hard way? Well, I wanna keep it, not in the realm of couples. Let's just talk about sexual activity between people and, and let me go back and set the stage a little bit too. I believe we were married probably about three years, and I, um, said to my wife one day, you know, hun, I'd like to do a threesome. What do you say about doing a threesome? And her response was not something I, I'm interested in. If you wanna do it, you do it it came maybe months later and subject came up again.

11:27 I brought it up, you know, what about a threesome? And her response was exactly the same. It's not something I want to do. If you wanna do it, do it. And so after the third time, then it was like, okay, I got the message. It's clear she's not interested, but I'm free to do it. I tell you, we've been married 62 years and, uh, people say. What's the secret? And she has kind of a stock answer and it is, pick your battles. Yes. And so, at an early age she picked her battle. I'm not saying I, I don't know how it would've turned out had she said No, no, no.

12:11 And what are you talking about? You're bad for do, no, that wasn't her answer. But I, if she had said no, and I stuck to that I'm not sure how, how it would've all ended. But, you know, here we are six, two years later and we've had a great marriage and, uh, that past that I got and her mentality of pick your battles, it, you know. It was just perfect. Yeah, yeah. I'll tell you what, if that was a battle that she chose not to fight, I'd love to see a battle that she chose to fight, because that must have been mega. Um, well, go ahead.

12:51 No, no, go ahead sir. Go ahead. Well, I was gonna say we had a, I believe, a strong bond, you know, very, a very, but on, on top of that. I will go back a few steps. She came from a very religious family. Uh, they taught Sunday school. They were in the choir. So she had that typical. Reaction that women of her age at that time were going through it was their grandmothers and their mothers saying, oh, sex, uh, we don't talk about sex, or, you know, that's to have babies. I mean, that's really the way it was for her mother and her grandmother, and, you know, the like. So when the sexual revolution hit and women had the freedom to, to go out and explore and not worry about the consequences of being pregnant and et cetera that, that set the stage, but going back to her upbringing, she was very vanilla.

13:46 Now, 62 years later, I might have had a little impact. Not a great deal, but a little impact there. You know, I feel like once we get past the age of like 40, 45, we're like, all right, we don't have any more fucks to give. So that's right. So we're living our lives. So time to just be unapologetic about it. It's um, yeah, I'll say that one of my favorite lines from the book. Is freedom without communication is just chaos. Wearing a smile. I, I want you to explain that, like what exactly this quote means to you. Well, a lot of the book was talking about communication. And if you read the first story, there was a dyer.

14:31 Consequence which was suicide. And that was because of that communication. There happened to be a physician involved. And the physician really was, uh, uh, the word escapes me that I want right now. But, uh, he threw people under the bus and again, that consequences and there was no communication or dialogue between the male and the female. So communication is very important. By the way, when I wrote the book, I noticed at the end of the first, uh, story that I said profits would be shared with the suicide hotline society. Yeah, I noticed that. And that was, that was great.

15:12 Yeah. Yeah, it was, that was the reason I started the book was for that story. And that story was one I thought could be a Netflix or an Amazon Prime hour, uh, story. And it had a it had a humor in it, but it had dire consequences and it had some lessons I thought people could learn. But then one story just sat by itself. It was like this tiny p on an irony board, and I said, well, let me beef it up. So I'll write five stories. And five went to 10 and 10 went to 12. And that at 12, I said, that's it. The 12 story was always gonna be the last story. So that was it.

15:52 But in the middle of the night, one night. I woke up and I said, oh my God, I have another story to tell in the morning. I said to my wife, Hey hun, I got another story. And she said, you can't. I said, what? She said, it's a 13 story. I said, yeah. She said, you can't, it's 12 or 14. You can't do 13. I, it's 13, but I, I went back, I went back and sandwich stood in between 10 and 11. And, uh, so 12 was, again, that was, or 13 was always gonna be that last story where Butch's wife discovers her own experiences. Okay. Wow. Well, you know, during that era flirting and sexual expression were acts of rebellion.

16:35 And I know I, from the reading that I've done that's always been the case. Swingers today. How can they bring back that same kind of playfulness instead of just getting stuck in like rules anxiety? We brought up rules earlier in the show, and I feel like a lot of us are just kind of stuck to a rule book. We get contacted all the time with people saying, I don't know how, how can we be swingers? Like how do we do this? And to me the answer's very simple. It's like you, you need to stop asking questions and just do, you know, like go out there and meet people. And, and so I, I have a bit of a fluidity to, to the way I like to do things. What's a good way to kind of bring that back, you think?

17:17 I don't think we can bring it back. There's, I, there's no way to bring it back. And, uh, people do have their hookups nowadays, and it unfortunately they become, uh, emotional then that's not what my about or the book is about, but I don't think there's a way to put the genie back in the bottle today. Likewise, I think it's cool that. There are, it's open, there's open expressions now about monogamy, non-monogamy. You can't watch tv. For a week, probably different programs without hearing about a swinger or a swingers club.

18:00 Yeah. Or about monogamy or non-monogamy. Yeah. So it's out there. And every study that I've seen in the last five years about sex, the, one of the top three topics is about non-monogamy. Now the new term is hot wifeing. That's become the new term. And of course, menage a tois is always a, you know, in the, in the top three. And, uh, I hope you read about the corkscrew and how Butch. Discover a new position called the Corkscrew. We did, yes.

18:41 Try it sometime. We're gonna pause real quick. Well, you need a third person. I know there's, there was a lot to learn from the book, I'll tell you that. Yeah. Uh, you know, I, I think it's really cool that. You know, you didn't just write about it, but you lived it. Mm-hmm. And, and I think that's, that says a lot because, uh, you know, in the world that we live in, there are a lot of people who want to talk about it, but never have really tried certain aspects of it. There was one person that we talked to that didn't even, even though they did what Swingers do, they said, well, I'm not a part of that. Community. Like, that's not my, that's not my thing. Like I just, I just do it occasionally.

19:23 I thought something was interesting though, Sam and I, I, I wanted to ask you about it because right now in, I guess the, the sexual phase that we're living in communication obviously is the number one thing that we always talk about. But the other thing is consent. Uh, consent is very, very big. We talk about it when we go to clubs, when we go to house parties, you know, this sort of thing. And there's been several times where consent has not been obtained and things have happened, as far as back then, I mean, o obviously with its fluidity and, you know, that that sort of thing, was consent even a thing? Uh, I mean, obviously you'd have to get a yes. I mean, but was it what it is today?

20:06 Butch's encounters were all natural. Yeah. And so there was a fluidity to going from first base to home plate. So consent was not on the table because it was just a natural a flow. If I were in my twenties, thirties, forties, fifties today, it'd scare the hell out of me yeah, to proceed with an sexual encounter. Like if I met somebody and I thought things were going well and there was some, uh, communication or some feelings of sexuality between us, I don't know how I would approach it today.

20:54 You know, I gotta stop and ask are we doing this? Is this okay with you? It's nerve wracking, Sam. It is nerve wracking. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it takes, I don't wanna say it takes the fun out of it, but you have to do that today without question. Yeah. Um, and again, going back then, you know, Butch had these encounters and, uh. Most of them, all of them practically were brought to him. I mean mm-hmm. The women came down to him. Yeah. Yeah. So. Again, so the consent part was, I guess I had to consent to what they wanted to do.

21:40 I mean, I, I, I like that you're seeing the, the way it, it's all changing now, so it's, it is very different and you are right. We can't go back. But We've grown up in, in, with our feet in both fires. Yeah, because we grew up in the, you know, Pris grew up in, in the late seventies, early eighties, and I grew up through the, throughout the eighties and of course. Consent was not as a big a deal in the eighties. Yeah. And even some of, some of the early nineties, it was, it was like, you know, we grew up watching these movies and it was like, you just go up to the girl and you kiss her and you, you know, you go, you swoon, you get her to swoon and then you take her to the bedroom. You know, like there's no questions asked.

22:21 And, and, and the idea was that women liked men who were take charge and you just go over there and you just. You just kiss her. Yeah. You know what I mean? Now it is not like that. No, it, I mean, I, I'm, I was raised very differently, that can't happen at all. No. Consent is very big. I mean, we're raising kids, you know, we are raising kids and we tell our boy, we have boys and I, and I always, and we have daughters also. But I always tell my boys it's like if de say, if they say no, it's no. And that's just the way it is like. There's, you can cry about it later. Yeah. But so the hard part was and going back to what you said Sam was you know, it's, it's nerve wracking. And so when we first started, uh, we've been together 15 years.

23:04 We started in the lifestyle as swingers 14 years ago. And I remember thinking, how am I supposed to do this? Like, I have always thought that. You go up to the girl and you grab her and you kiss her, you know, and that sort of thing. And you gotta be like butch and just stand there. Yeah. All of a sudden people are lecturing me and saying, look, you gotta ask man. Like, you can't touch, you gotta ask. Yeah. Uh, and so then I had to figure out how to be able to ask for consent without I. Putting a stop to all the, the fun vibe. Yeah. And that alone is just exhausting. You were still, uh, you were still a gentleman. I mean, you didn't go up and grab him by the pussy, did you?

23:45 No. No. I can't say I've never done that. No. You were a gentleman. I was a gentleman. I was, I was very gentle. I was very gentle. Yeah. No, uh, you know, and so that's. That's always been my, my, uh, I guess my nerve wracking thing was because we didn't really technically grow up in that era. Uh, and you know, there's still some women out there in the lifestyle that I've come across that have been like, don't ask, just do it. Yeah. And I'm like, really? Are you sure? Are you baiting me? Because I don't know. No, no. Adam, if I hear, just do it, I'm not gonna ask her twice. Oh, man. He does. I do.

24:25 I, you know, I'm Sam, I, I've got such bad anxiety. I always feel like I'm gonna say the wrong thing or do the wrong thing. And so I'm like a woman will contact me now and she'll be like, Hey, um. I think you're attractive. Let's, we should get together. Let's, let's play. And I'm like, are you sure? Are you sure you want to do that? Like, have you have you actually like, looked at everything that I've said in this conversation? Like, are you sure you wanna do this? And then I forget that a lot of times some women just transactional, just like some men are transactional, they just, yeah. Jump in there and, and get it, get it going. I don't ask for permission.

25:05 You talk, you talk about anxiety and one of the, uh, I tried to have a lot of lessons in the book and one of them, and they're subtle. This is probably an example why I say there's subtle. There was an event where, uh, Butch was took his father to have some test medical tests in Boston. And so staying in a hotel and, um. There was a woman at a bar. Butch was at the bar after he had finished, uh, his, his dinner, and he could see her looking through the glass, looking over. So he buys her drink and then they start talking and then they go up to his room.

25:47 I would say Butch was probably about maybe 35 years old. And, uh, she was like 22 years old. Found out she was a, uh, telephone operator. Where do you see those today? Right. Said she was a part-time model and, uh, so things started to progress in the room to where they're go hitting the bed. They're both naked, hitting the bed and. Is not, it's not working, it just isn't working. And so Butch's favorite maneuver, probably what made him infamous to get referrals was he was good going down.

26:27 There you go. There's a lot of that still. So I have met plenty of butches so it's like, okay, let's do the never fail move. That's right. And, but, and. It ain't happening. So she got incensed, am I not good enough? Am I not pretty enough? And, and then he tried to explain, he's got his father in the hospital. He's, uh, got a client back home who he's working on a very big case for. So he had real stress. He had two or three things going on in his life that were really stressful.

27:08 Mm-hmm. And even in the heat of what? Normally it would've been a great time. It wasn't working. So, the message in the book is if a woman's reading the book and she ever encounters a guy who has a problem, don't think it's you, don't put it on yourself. Yeah. We actually show about that. Yeah. Not too long ago, because I had, I had a situation like that. You know, I, I am not because of my anxiety it, this is contradictory, but I have social anxiety. But I'm also an exhibitionist. And so we like to put on shows in front of other people. We'll go to the club and there's a row of beds in the, in the center mass there, and we just get it on in front of everybody.

27:50 But one day we got called over to, uh, one of the little cubbies there, there was a couple, a couple over there that they were having fun. They were, and they waved us over and I didn't really know them very well. Pris had known them a little bit and she was like, Hey, come on. Let's go. Let's have fun. Okay, cool. Why not? I'm already, we were just playing, so I'm, I'm good to go. I think I can just naturally slip into this other one. Um. It did not happen that way. And so once I started getting into it with this other woman, something happened and it just did not work. And so, you know, I, I worked as hard as I could to, you know, I gave myself three tries.

28:32 Three strikes and then that's it. I'm out. And by the third, no, you're not in. I was never in. And so by the third time I was like, you know what guys? Y'all have a good time. I said, this is not gonna work for me. It's just I need more connection. And I think what it is, is I. I like to know that the person that I'm playing with wants me. 'Cause that's kind of what turns me on. And I, I've thought about this leading up to this interview, Sam, I, I don't know how well I would have been back then. No. Uh, because of that, like, I, I, you know, I don't know how well I could perform just on the fly and be like, Hey, me, you.

29:13 In this room, let's get it. You know what I mean? Like, that would be very difficult for me. You gotta go to the move. I gotta, I have to do the butch move. Yeah. Immediately go. And that's a great move to go to. It is. It is. Uh, but that was something that we had talked about because, uh, I had to let my lady friend No. And basically all women know, and my wife had to learn the hard way too is. When that happens, it's not about you. Yeah, it's about me. Yeah. It's not that I don't find you attractive, it's not that this isn't a hot scenario or anything like that. It's things in my own head. You know, there's been times where she's told me in the morning for a quickie, she's like, Hey, hurry up. We gotta go. I, I gotta go to work.

29:54 And then I'm looking at the clock and then I'm like, yeah, this is, this isn't gonna work. Like, I can't, it's just too much pressure. I can't do it. Yeah, it's, uh. Sam, I'm just, I'm a mess man. I'm a mess. So I'm taking a lot from your book. I can tell you that. I'm trying, yes. I'm trying to incorporate some, because I think even though, uh, like you said, uh, a lot of the aspects of the way things were back then, uh. Just can't make it out here. I think there are some aspects, uh, that can still make it out here. I, I, I believe that there are, uh, some women and some men that I have met that really kind of have that makeup and, uh, I've always referred to it as the, uh.

30:38 The hippie vibe, you know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Like everything mm-hmm. Is just, everything is fluid and we're in the moment and what are we feeling right now? And this is the moment that we're having, let's just go with it, and I, you know, from a pothead standpoint, I dig that down. I did it. That sounds like a great idea. Anyway I'm kind of curious. Your makeup, Sam, as far as back then, because I only get this Sam to talk to you know, if you could paint a picture of of, of the Sam from, uh, from back then, you know, like, what, what was this cock of the walk doing back then? Like, uh, were you sporting the nice suits of the, of the day and you were, you know, when your wife said, no, you can go ahead and have your threesomes.

31:21 Like, did you already have go-tos? Uh, did you have to work on that to find what you wanted? No, there was no go-tos. The idea was go-to in my head. But I, I had nobody, uh, in mind. Yeah. So then, you know, when I took it after three times, okay, go do it. It again, it was a natural thing the way it came about. Um. In, uh, in the career that Butch had, he, uh, he was, uh, a salesman. He was many things. He's a Gemini, so he wore many hats.

32:03 Uh, he was a coach, he was an athlete, but, uh, primarily he was a businessman. And so yeah, dressed well. I always tried to look good. Yeah. I'm 86 years old. I still, when I get dressed, I want to dress to please myself Yeah. To look good going out. Yeah, I, I dressed kind of high style. Don't really know what the magic was, but. I got involved in modeling, not because I wanted to I did a favor for a woman who, which again is in the book who had a modeling agency. And after the favor she said, you know, I'd like to have you do some modeling for me.

32:43 And I said, you know, I'm not interested. I don't have the time. We exchanged cards, and she called me in a couple weeks and, said, are you coming? I said, no, not really. She said, do me a favor. And I told her, I said, I don't wanna embarrass you. I don't have any training, et cetera. She said, I need somebody for a bridal show this weekend. And so could you put a UX on and come and do it for her? I said, okay I'll do that for you. That was fun. So that broke the barriers. So I did some modeling, for several years. And then as a result of the modeling, I was asked to judge beauty pageants and I got involved in judging beauty pageants.

33:23 So that led to some exploration and, and travel a lot of butch's adventures. I mean, almost all of them were involved through traveling, but I, what was it? I don't know. Did I try and perfect whatever it was? No, it just, you know, it just happens to this day. I dunno. Wow. I think you did amazing. So, yeah, and you know, you're a sharp looking guy when you say that you are a model. I could see that. I could see you modeling right now, man. You look great in what you're wearing. Thanks. I definitely couldn't pull off a turtleneck, uh, because I just, I've tried and I don't know. I get, I think I have a double chin and so something happens. Looks great on you.

34:04 Yeah, you look fantastic. Thanks. And you know, I said I'm 86, my wife is 83. We work out three times a week. We work out. With a personal trainer. That's awesome. You know, we, we try, we play, we played tennis. Now she has some macular degeneration. So we're, we're, we went to the dark side. We're trying to play pickleball. Oh, you do it. We went to Seattle. Did you know that that is the pickleball? That's that's where, that's where it started. Started. That's where it started. In the Seattle. Yeah. They have a museum and everything. It was so weird, but I was like. I thought pick, I thought pickleball was just, uh, a fake, a fake game that someone just invented, like, well, I mean, all games, I mean, you know what I mean?

34:48 Well, I'm glad you're enjoying It's, yeah, it's fun. No question about it. When I'm talking about our lifestyle, Uhhuh, we do date night every Saturday night really. So before COVID we would do date night. So date night was going out, having dinner, going to a movie. It had to be sexually oriented or a romcom, no violence. And then we'd go to a lounge that was close to home and we'd have a couple pops, get to meet a lot of nice people and get home and finish date night with sex. COVID hit and a couple weeks went by and it was like, Hey, hun.

35:30 We're not doing date night. We gotta fix this. So we started, we making dinner at home, then turn on Netflix, Amazon Prime find some sexual content. There's tons of it. And guys, I hope one day you're gonna be. Watching hookups, hiccups, and happenstances on Netflix or Amazon or Hulu. I would love that. But so halfway through whatever we're watching, we'll pause it and I'll make margaritas and then again, when it's over, jump in bed and, uh, we'll have sex and you know, it's great. It's so healthy, man. Sex is a absolutely, you, you know the advantages of sex, right?

36:17 It can help stress, it can't help relieve stress. Yeah, help relieve pain burns calories improves sleep. I sleep like a baby Saturday night, I wanna tell you until Sunday morning. Oh, man. Yeah. I, I, I hibernate you know, it's funny that you say that. The date we've attempted to do that several times and, and we were pretty good at it for a while there. When we started this podcast, I, I gotta say the, the podcast is all consuming. And you know, it's one of those things where it's like we, I threw myself into it and it, it takes up so much of my time and this and that. And then we are traveling to do different events and this and that, and we have sat back and gone.

37:00 When are we doing date night? Like, you know what? And so like this past weekend we were at a, a hotel takeover where they basically, it's the swingers take over the entire hotel from the moment you walk in. They have the doors kind of shaded closed off. People are walking around naked and lingerie. Uh, you get a room, you, you're there for the entire weekend and there's a bunch of festivities that are going downstairs. That was our opportunity to. Basically have a love fest and, and have fun with every single person. You know, we were there to do a live podcast on a Saturday, and so when we checked in Friday, people already knew who we were. We could have had a lot of fun. You know what we did?

37:41 We stayed in the room the entire weekend. And we literally just I, she stayed in my arms. We watched TV and that was our Okay. Two of you. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. But that was a, that was great. That was great. That was great. That was great. And, and we, we have a house full of children, so it's anytime we can get it in our quiet time, our alone time, we make the best of it. I initially felt bad about it 'cause I was like, you know, how often are we here at a, at a hotel takeover in this kind of situation? But at the same time, I was like. I, I need this, and I feel like she needs this too. Yeah. I, I, you know, our relationship has always been our number one priority over everything.

38:22 And uh, you know, I think that's really something that we try to bring up in almost every show besides communication is that. You need to really put everything you have into your relationship. You could have looked at it afterwards and said, geez, we spent all that money when we could have done this at home. But it wasn't home. It was, it wasn't a a, a new feeling. A new, new surroundings. Yeah. And I'll, and I'll take it. You needed that to the next, I'll take it to the next level, Sam. We didn't have to pay for. It worked. We, it was even better. We were, we were part of the entertainment, so it worked out. So, yeah, no, it was, it was really great and it was a great event. We got to really see some cool stuff and be around a lot of great people.

39:02 But when it came down to it. Yeah, we just, we stayed in the room. We ate our fast food junk food. We, and we ended the night with sex and we slept amazingly. It was nice. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. What, what state do you guys live in? Texas. Yeah. In Texas? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Have you ever been to Fantasy Fest in, in Florida, key West Florida? No. No. I've heard, I've heard of it. I have not. I've heard of it. I've never been. We've never been though. We're starting to do some traveling, so yeah. 20. Is that something that we should look into? You got that spot on your face? Well, we did Fantasy Fest probably 8, 8, 9 years.

39:45 So, uh, I, you know, I, you think I can recommend it? Okay. Well now I'm gonna get on the computer. I'm gonna find out I to look at it. But then if you put it on your, uh, wishlist and you're gonna go, you gotta talk to me before you go. Okay. That's a deal. Yeah, definitely. We're gonna, we're gonna try and get this thing linked up. We're gonna have you back on the show, Sam. Yes. So we can talk about it. Well, with that, I appreciate you, uh, Sam, I appreciate you joining us for the show. I love the conversations like this because it, it's wild realizing how much of what we call modern really started decades ago. And of course, that's the wonderful book right there. That's right. Hey, we got it right here too. Yep.

40:26 SamLFeldman.com There you go. Feldman com. You know. Sam's book, hookups, hiccups, and Happenstances Nails that mix of sexy, funny, and reflective. It's like reading the origin story of everything we've talked about on Beyond Monogamy. Yeah, and if you haven't checked it out, go grab yourself a copy. We'll have the link up up. On our website. So yes, and our show, our show notes, everything will be listed there. Uh, speaking of which, go to www.beyondmonogamy.com for all our episodes, blogs, merch, and so much more, including our guest bio of our yes, of our friend Sam here. Uh, and that's gonna have all of his, uh, book information there as well. Great. And don't forget to drop your own wild and hilarious lifestyle stories in the beyond Monogamy confessional.

41:11 You can stay anonymous and. We might feature it in our upcoming episode. That's right. I actually have another quickie episode where we're gonna have a couple fun. Nice. So with that. Don't forget to hit our events. Tab 2026 is already filling up with live shows, meet and greets and trips. Uh, we're gonna be doing Naughty Nawlins in, uh, in, in the summertime. Mm-hmm. And now Sam, you just gave us another one to scope out, so we're gonna have to bring that list. We're gonna be going to Florida. That's right. The last 10 days of October. Last 10 days of October, we got it down. We got it down. So, uh, with that, hopefully everybody on the podcast is gonna hang out with us. Uh, and if they're out there, they may be able to hang out with us in person. Yeah. Uh, so thank you all for listening.

41:51 We appreciate you all and we will see you guys next week. Bye.