One-Way Monogamy Isn't ENM: The Manosphere, a Pastor & His Second Wife

0:05 All right, y'all. Before we dive in, a quick heads up. This show is raw, real, and definitely not rated PG. We're talking about adult themes, sexual content, and the kind of stuff you probably don't want blasting through your speakers at work or around your kids. So grab some headphones, pour your drink of choice and get comfy. ~ and just so we're clear, we are not licensed therapists, counselors, or sex couches. Sex coach. Sex couches. Not sex couches. Or just a couple of people sharing our lives experiences and sexy adventures. An ethical non-monogamy. So with that, pull up a chair and enjoy the show.

0:49 Welcome to another episode of Beyond Monogamy. I'm Adam. And I'm Pris. ~ and Happy Halloween, guys. Happy Halloween. That's right. Today we're talking about a word getting dragged through the mud. Netflix put out a documentary about the manosphere And some of these guys have a name for what they want: one-way monogamy. Yeah. He does whatever he wants, and she stays loyal. And then, like the universe. Wanted to prove our point. A pastor in Ohio went viral this week for introducing his second wife from the pulpit. What do you think about that?

1:30 wow, you really picked a a you know if there was ever an episode that I would get some good shit out of you, it's this week. You guys didn't hear my eyes rolling because ~ fuck that. ~ hang on now, hang on. Hang on now. I knew you'd have a lot to say about it though. So today we're breaking down why none of that is ethical non-monogamy, why women get judged so differently than men, and how to spot a man hiding behind a buzzword or a Bible verse. And Chris, I'm warning everybody now to buckle up. Now it's been a minute since you watched this.

2:10 So let me refresh everybody listening at home as well as yourself. Okay. The documentary is called Lewis Thoreau Inside the Manosphere. It came out on Netflix March. 11th of this year and it shot straight to number one. Thoreau is the British documentary guy who's done Westboro Baptist Scientology, Neo Nazis. He's basically he walks into a subculture. He acts friendly and curious, and then he lets people expose themselves. Okay. So this time he travels to Mi Miami, New York, and Marbella, Spain to hang out with Manosphere influencers. These are the guys online selling young guys, on being the alpha male.

2:53 e they're selling him workout content, money advice, and a whole lot of sexist messaging mixed in. The main guy on there is Harrison Sullivan. He goes by ~ HS Tiki Toki. He's the young one in Spain whose mom shows up. Yeah. ~ I do kind of remember this. Yeah, because I remember thinking there were some younger kids and I was like, the fuck? Yes. Okay, right. Exactly. And then we kept we kept telling our son, like, y do you know these guys? And they knew who these guys were. Yeah. there was also Myron Gaines, he's the podcaster. He tells Thoreau he's basically a dictator in his relationships and that sex is something that he allows.

3:35 he also talks about wanting multiple wives someday. now here's the part that matters for us. Thoreau asks Gaines' girlfriend, Angelica Camacho, how she feels about his one-way monogamy. He can be with other women and she can't be with anybody but him. ~ after the documentary came out, she said that she never wanted to be in it in the first place. then he sits down with the wife of another influencer, Justin Waller, and asks her about the same setup. She stays loyal and he sleeps with whoever he wants. The big takeaway from this whole film is that this stuff is a business.

4:15 The more outrageous these guys are, the more money they make, right? Obviously. So that's where one way monogamy comes from. And and honey, y you remember those women's faces when they were talking, right? Mm-hmm. I do. Now, what was going through your head when you were watching this i if you can remember? The one I can remember the most is On Helica Camacho. Okay. I remember her because the situation, the way it was set up, was pretty much catching her on a spot, right? Yeah. So you don't ever know what goes behind what happens behind closed doors. And let me tell you that I remember thinking how there's no way that she is.

5:01 Okay with all of this. Yeah, you actually mentioned that out loud. There's no way. ~ I don't know her background, I don't know her life. But there is no way the faces she was making, the looks she had, it was pretty much in her putting her in her spot. Now, again, you don't know what happens behind closed doors. So she could have been in an abusive relationship. honestly, it's the manosphere, guys. There are a fucking bunch of pendejos anyway that just think that they can tell their wives or women what to do, right? give me a fucking day with them, and that would totally change. But anyway, I remember thinking there's no way in hell. That she's okay with it. Just the look, the look of fear and I must be obedient came upon her like a kid who is getting scolded or knows what's gonna happen.

5:51 You know when your mom used to tell you if you fall from that slide, you know what's gonna happen. Yeah. Kind of that shit. ~ I don't remember the other woman. I don't remember. And then I probably was rolling my eyes when she was saying I stand by my man. Yeah, no, you you were definitely rolling your eyes. Now if you could sit across from these ladies right now, what would you tell them? I I did wanna I I wanna say something It's unfortunate, but I the only way I can break it down is the one who is raised to be very obedient to her man. Was probably raised in a in a way of don't be disrespectful to your man, because that's how a lot of us were raised.

6:36 Now in the culture that we're in, and the society that we're in right now, probably is I'm all about my man. I will do whatever my man wants because God has chosen this for me. They have two different mindsets. That's just just the way it is. And some of us can see past that, some of us can outgrow that. Some of us can can think for ourselves, but then some can't. Well, so I mean cultures have to come into play. I mean it c it kind of brings to light what's very big right now And we see a lot of the trad wife kind of situation.

7:16 where i it's a stay-at-home wife who's there, takes care of the kids, they you know, they do everything that the husband says. The husband is the leader of the household. it is oftentimes influenced and interwoven with religion religion. For sure. And and certain types of religion, and not to dog. mainstream religion, but realistically, a lot of religions, if not most of them, are ingrained in misogyny. Yes. and so it's it's because of that that this all kind of Yeah. Is cyclical you know. Right, you don't wanna you don't wanna talk about races and you don't wanna talk about religions, but you have to.

8:00 It's called a fucking man a sphere. Yeah. it's called the man a sphere. Like it's it's built for the men. Yeah. Right? I can only answer as a woman. That's the most stupidest fucking thing ever. Like ~ Those boys must have never been loved, must have never been taught respect. And and I can tell you, their dad, their parents are probably the same way. The white the mom probably sticks by the man. The man probably goes and fucks around. And then that's just a circle. Like it's just a it's just an infinite circle. And It's super fucking sad. Well, it just because I've also seen it it comes from a lot of privilege and from entitlement.

8:41 It does because I've even seen it and again, not to talk about it, but people in politics. Yeah. it's just following. I s I've seen people where it's like, you know, my wife my wife lets me do whatever I want or whatever because that's the Bible the man is the ha man of the house and runs the whole shit and whatever. Please. Hmm. Please. Like, no. Yeah. You gotta ~ you got you got me all riled up. it's not really it's not meant to rile you up, but it is something worth discussing right now because let's face facts here. Going into this next situation that we're talking about, we're talking about the the co-pastors You told me about this.

9:22 Yeah, so I'm gonna get into the story that's been all over TikTok. on October 25th at Life Works Church outside of Cleveland, the co-pastor Lydia Ford stood up in front of the congregation and introduced another woman, Minister Shekela, as her husband's second wife. She called her my sister in marriage. And the congregation clapped. This was all on video. they recorded it. This was uploaded. Her husband is Israel Ford. He calls himself a prophet. They refer to him as the prophet. he told the church he and Shayla have actually been married almost three years.

10:02 Then he posted online that teaching a man should only have one wife is unbiblical. And he cited a verse from Exodus. And for the record, polygamy is illegal in Ohio. As a matter of fact, it's illegal in several states. Nobody's clear whether there's an actual marriage license or if this is just a religious thing that they've kind of come up with. yeah so there's more to this. So I see you stewing already. There's a lot more to this though. Two days later all three of them went on a YouTube show called Larry Reed Live. They said it started a fr as a friendship.

10:45 Shekela Shakay was helping Lydia recover from surgery and feelings developed. Lydia said her first reaction was, Ain't no way. She says prayer and fasting brought her around. She also admitted that she's felt jealous and unwanted, and she pointed out that Shekela is younger and beautiful. now there's There's a rather large age difference. I wanna say he's in he's like forty-six and she's like twenty-eight. So there there is a bit of an of an age gap. then the host asked the big question, could either wife have another husband?

11:25 Okay, I already know. I already know where it's gonna go. Israel said if they want another husband, then they don't want me. Israel, you are a small little man. A small little man with just the most idiotic. Brain in the world, sir. well g it gets worse. ~ It gets worse. Tell me. It gets worse. Tell me. It gets worse. the host of that show asked what it was like for Shekela to go from being his spiritual daughter, which he had referred to her as his spiritual daughter, ~ to now being his spiritual wife. He said it was pretty easy.

12:07 R now, like I said, reports put him in his late 40s. I think they said 46, and she's in her late 20s, around 28. According to Lydia's daughter, Shekela joined the church around 20 or 21, coming from an unstable home. Mm-hmm. And the Fords took her in. Mm-hmm. Now, quick heads up: this next part involves allegations of child sexual abuse. If you need to skip ahead a couple of minutes, take care of yourself. Do what you gotta do, okay? Okay. So on October 27th, Lydia's daughter, Courtney Jones, posted on Facebook alleging that Israel Ford sexually abused her from the age twelve until she left home at 17.

12:52 Now, these we have to state are allegations. Israel and Lydia have denied them in a statement to the shade room, and it's not clear whether police are involved. The shade room also reported on a past conviction involving him and his other stepdaughter. And Courtney asked people not to mock her mother or Shekela. She sees them as actual victims too. I will agree with you, Courtney. I will agree with you. That's a lot to take in. Yes. first women should be helping other women.

13:32 This means if you are a grown ass woman and you see that there is a person that you have in your life that needs assistance and she is a female, she needs your help to get out of a certain situation. Women should be helping women. my God. Ugh. Now this is this is brought up and people are gonna say, Well, why why are you bringing this up? Well The reason why I'm bringing this up is because it's it's all over the scene that I'm in, and the scene that I'm in is ethical non monotony. Mm-hmm. Now this is she it when she made the announcement in front of the congregation, she being the the pastor.

14:13 Lydia Lydia, she said basically that this is a polygamist situation. Mm-hmm. that ~ that's the problem is that people confuse polygamy and polyamory. Yeah. They are not the same. They're not the same. They're not even in the same realm. it is not. I think she said it was a polygyny situation, which which is that's the when a wife takes on two husbands, I believe it is. And then polygamy is when a husband takes on two wives. Either way, it's against law. It is not legal in the United States. That is not ethical non monogamy. No, that's there's nothing about it. And it's it's a very sad ~ Situation, allegations are not like that's a sad situation.

15:04 And for people to think that it's the same, it's under the same umbrella, it's not under the same umbrella at all. They're two different worlds. Yeah, they really are. I really see a lot of this confusion of the polygamy and the polyamory. The polygamy and the polyamory, it's not the same, and you know. know it it really needs to be educated it needs to be brought up because there you know even people who are actively po polyamorous refer to it as polygamy sometimes and I'm like no it's not the same that's not the same thing but going back The manosphere.

15:44 Yeah. Those people like they that's that's still not ethical non-monogamy. You're letting your or you yourself are open to other relationships, but your other partner is not because you said it was not okay. That is not that's cheating, homie. That is you being a cheater open. It's not you having an ethical non-monogamy relationship if it's only one. Way now if you I if I said okay hey Boobert you can go ahead and be a swinger, you can live that life, I'm not gonna be I'm just gonna be monogamous to you, I have made that decision, right?

16:27 But those are that's that's a relationship agreement. Yeah. Now these other people, If that's how they wanna live, that's fine. that's that's their shit, right? But don't call it what it don't call it that. it's not it's it's straight out wrong. It's it's it is unfortunately. I'm sure Adam would love to have many, many wives, a whole harem, but you know, I mean if you if you take away the the age gap for one thing a and I'm not saying that this man is is predatory or that his wife is predatory. I'm not I'm not saying that in any way. But what I am saying is is that it gives off predatory vibes when you're in a position of power, such as a pastor or a teacher, or an employer.

17:21 You're in a position of power. Where your power can be influenced over somebody, and then you add that somebody being a couple decades younger than you. That's that's and possibly raised to respect somebody older than Exactly. Like that is not no that that screams unethical. So in so many ways. So many ways. you see a lot of predatory behavior amongst people who run things. not saying it's everybody, but a lot of times you'll run into people who run events, who use those events as ways to sleep with people and and, you know, try and kind of get get the trophy couple and things like that.

18:05 Yeah. the same thing with different aspects of you know people who run certain groups and people use certain apps as as ways to be predatory, as ways to bring them in and say, hey, you know, you could be a part of this. Yeah. We've known people like that. Like we've known people who we know for sure through parties. We're predators and it's just a thing. Like it's just the way that's just everyone kinda laughs at it as as many people do Sorry. Many religious people do. They just blow it off. Yeah. it's just like, well, if the Bible said so, like especially if this guy is saying, I'm a prophet.

18:48 You ain't a prophet, because if you were a prophet, you wouldn't need all of these things. So you're just a regular human man who is not all human men, but you're just disgusting and that's just what it is. ~ it's it's I I feel we really have to like think about who we're talking about, right? Yeah. The type of people we're talking about. And it is in this case, it is very gender-y. It's men against women, which has always been a situation where the man feels he is always the right and the woman is beneath him. Yeah. a a lot of a lot of men always think like that where it's And I don't know what the situation with them i is per per se, because it almost sounded like Pastor Lydia wanted it just as much as far as the interviews that she's given and things that she has said, plus she was the one who made the announcement initially.

19:49 And if you saw the video and And some of you may go check it out after this, but if you saw the video, you'll see that when she announces it, he kinda has a face that's a little shocked. He it looks like somebody almost like he didn't know it was coming. Yeah. You know. but yeah, that that happened. I mean somewhere down the line she may be setting him up for for a wonderful little surprise. So I mean you you never really Let's see. Let's see. I I feel It's sh being stuck in a certain area. She said she w felt jealous. She was very jealous, but she prayed around about it or whatever.

20:30 The jealousy alone should have given you a red flag that you sh if she wasn't comfortable with it, she could've stopped the situation. it is what it is. You could stop it. But if your fear is I don't want to lose this man, well then you're gonna be a footstool as well. Well see now that's an interesting theory. That's an interesting theory because just talking about it, I I'm looking at it a as a way of why wouldn't she be vocal and say, Fuck no, I don't want you to have this girlfriend this needs to stop. Instead she embraced it as this is our thing. Maybe, just maybe, she was looking at it from a standpoint of if this scandal gets out, that's the end of this church or our time at this church.

21:19 It's gonna be scandalous, et cetera, et cetera. This is not good. And then decided, you know what? It's best that we make this decision. that we brought on this person together and we will make this work from a biblical standpoint. You know what I mean? I look at it so negatively. Because it's it's just a show a lot of times. And and for me yeah, because if she if this comes out, they lose everything. E everything crumbles. And as it is this is already bringing the spotlight to them and to their church, which bummer. You know, there's children involved evidently. S them have they have kids, right? So ~ Your world falls apart.

22:00 And if you're not a strong enough person, you think that's your world. It's gonna get taken away from you. There goes what? There goes the money. There goes all the stuff. ~ come on, it's a church. Right. There goes all the freaking money. There goes all of your luxury luxuries. There's a lot to lose. There's a lot to lose. So, what are you gonna do? You're gonna put your child between your legs and you're gonna be like, yes, sir, whatever you need. It's It's the way you th you're thinking, the way you were raised to be or whatever. so Why would you not lie and just kind of grin and bear it? Yeah, because it's easy to say, hey, you know what? If we take this on as a couple yeah and we bring this in and and we present it in this way, we can state that it applies to biblical times, which is kind of the argument here.

22:52 I have seen many a true crime and home girl may have a little surprise for I mean, you never know, set it up. Set your world up and then whatever. You know, I think the part that that really bothered me because I've I've known so many men who would say this is when he says, if they want another husband then they don't want me. Obviously. So there's the unethical portion right there. Now, if he said absolutely, if they wanted to pursue a time with anybody else, then absolutely we can we can you know look at that. But by putting it that way, it has gone from ethical to unethical, 100%.

23:37 and it's like man Where's the the the ego on that? Yeah. There's ego. Everybody's an individual. They all should be able to make their own decisions. And if they want to live that life, that's fine. But they should also be able to live whatever life they absolutely want. Whether that be the women hooking up with other women or whatever or men, that should be. If it's gonna be under that umbrella ethical non monogamy, that has to be this the way it is. but this the part that keeps bothering me and it keeps coming up is the fact that people keep referring to this as polyamory and it's like it is not polyamory.

24:20 It's nowhere near that unethical no portion. it's it it's it's not ethical at all. Like it's unethical. So I I mean, there's a lot of that keeps popping up at me. For me, it's the whole profit thing. ~ yeah. I it you used to be in the seminary. Yeah. So I wanna know when he says prophet and that he has the power over, you know I think that's what he's saying, like as a prophet I have the power over Yeah, it's all bullshit. And it's not you know It's all bullshit. you know, as a former seminarian I'll say this when your pastor is also your prophet, the power he has over you is is pretty enormous.

25:00 It's major. It's like if they tell you, you know, I've I've seen priests who have been able to not have to ever make a meal their entire life. Because all they gotta do is say, Hey, you're gonna make me dinner tonight. Okay, come on, everybody wants to do for your pastor. And especially if if they know that you're the prophet and they they believe that mind wash, it's not an equal and level playing field. The consent is not there. Yeah. It's a brainwash. Yeah. You know what I mean? When you see the red flags, you see them, right? There's the power.

25:41 Yeah. Right. That's that's not even balance at all. the age gap. The age gap. that's a big one. The shift that it was their spiritual daughter to their wife, yuck. Yeah, that should feel dirty and creepy right there. Yeah. I'm not one to judge a whole lot of stuff, but that's that's not cool. The spiritual daughter, she's probably very vulnerable, very young, and then boom. The we've seen it. How people, how many documentaries have you seen s just recently about how these people have some kind of spiritual power over them?

26:21 I mean There's there's so many. There's quite a bit. There's so many. And it's just using the Bible, using scripture if when people want to ask a question, suppose like, ~ it's you know, it's in the there is so much in the Bible you people don't even know. You know, I I I just feel like it's easy to to clip, pick and choose scripture to apply to anything that you want it to apply to. And and that can be kind of misconstrued no matter what. Or or misconstruing just anything. Like the people from the Manosphere, right? They probably saw some sign that said, I don't know, Iron Man was the best man and that's what I want to be, and that's who's gonna teach me how to be a man.

27:09 Okay. You get your stuff from things you don't even know who wrote them, who created them, whatever. And then you just you gain you think you gain power by knowing the knowledge of stupidity and then you just spread it around. Yeah. Like it's like it's nothing. Yeah. And unfortunately you you pray, you see it all the time, right? They prey upon vulnerable, broken women who have not found their voices who have not been taught to use their voice, who have not been taught how to speak up or whatever, and then shit like this happens. Yeah, and you know, like I said, when I when I was in the seminary, a lot of the guys, probably about fifty percent of the guys that I was in the seminary with were going for the sheer want of being able to have power over people.

28:06 Of course For one way or another. ~ the a and whether that means you know, scamming on boys or scamming on women or just s holding power over people, like whatever it is, a lot of them went there for it. It's the power, that power, right? When they go into the religious realm and they pray that's what I'm talking about. Like they pray over the the vulnerable people because they can do they can pull the power cord. Yeah. They can pull that I am the so and so of the Lord I'm the representative of the I'm the representative yeah.

28:48 Yeah. It's It's how cults are are born. It is it is rooted cult behavior. Yes. Yeah. But so so much religion is of that. ~ there are people out there that that have stated that before, but it is it is cult behavior, it's like this is this is my king, this is who I'm to serve, you know, that sort of thing. Hey, you know, I I ain't here to yuck anybody's yum, but do know you ~ are you are to be an equal in any relationship. You so sweet. You should be an equal in any relationship. ~ I am not taking away from the fact that maybe all three parties are equal in that relationship.

29:36 I don't know what goes on behind their their their doors. Now yeah, it's easy for me to say as member of the court of public opinion to go, that shit ain't right. And that age gap is whole And the whole prophet talk is ~ so red flaggish. But realistically, none of us are a part of that relationship. I mean, baby. Hey. I'm just saying, I'm just saying. I'm just saying from a devil's advocate. We don't want the devil's advocate. We don't know. It's that it's what happens behind closed. Pure ignorant bullshit. They may be all into it.

30:17 But that's maybe he. He found the two women that big that just adore him so much that they will say he's my prophet and king and we will all be together the no dude no I would sleep with one eye open, they probably have a plan for you. I mean, if y'all don't everything's murder with you, I mean, I don't know. my gosh. I am True true crime aficionado. True crime aficionado. I also am I I guys, y'all know me. I speak what I wanna speak, I say what I wanna say.

30:59 Most of the shit sometimes he edits out, right? But he does leave me a little spice to leave in there. And that's just bullshit. If a if you're in a relationship and someone is telling you you're in you're in this relationship and you're and you're saying your man says, you can only have the one dick. You c y you can go eat out as many pussies as you want. We can bring a woman we can bring a woman into our bed, but But a man, no, I don't ever want to see you take another dick. I don't ever wanna see you, you know, flirt with a man. That's bullshit right there. Unless you as a woman can say it and you have enough balls to tell your man that's not right.

31:41 That's not okay. It's not an even heel. Like it has to be everything or nothing. And yeah, the one the one penis policy, give me a fucking break. Give me a fucking every time a woman has told me that, it's we only we only have women. We don't we don't bring men into our bed, just women. And then it falls all apart, and then the the actual woman comes out and is like, He said I had to say that because he didn't want to see me with any other men. Why? Because he probably had a little penis and he was insecure. I think a lot of the one penis policy is really insecurity. Yeah. But I think there are some women who have stated that they are good with the one penis policy.

32:26 Mm-hmm. That they would rather just have women. Mm-hmm. And that ~ another man Well, you used to say, Well, I I have no interest in sleeping with other men. I just want other women. Yeah, but I don't even want them like as a threesome. Like you just want other women. I just want other women. That's very different than I wanna bring another woman into my bed so my husband can enjoy Her. No. A lot of the social media content that revolves around polyamory and swinging, it always comes out as a couple looking to find another woman to to bring in. It's because your woman is bisexual and she does not want to only want to sleep with you. Like that's period.

33:09 You think that's the case most of the time? I love women. I love pussy way more than I love dick. Yeah. I love your dick, but only because you know how to fuck me. Yeah. I love pussy. Like that's what I love. Like I love another female same eating me out. I love an I love to eat another female. Like that's my jam right there. Yeah. I'm not gonna lie and be like, ~ I just I just want to bring in another woman just for us to share. No, I don't want to share her all the time. I want it to be for me too. Like you know what I mean? Yeah. It's I'm not gonna sit here and lie and think that it's all pretty And no, it's not. It's it's whatever you want in your relationship and it's both ways. If Adam were to say, ~ I want to bring another man, but I just want to have the man for myself, I'd be like, Okay, dude.

33:54 Yeah. You can. Right. But for a woman to say, ~ I understand if you don't like women, like you don't want to play with a woman, but you still wanna be a swinger. Yeah. And maybe you wanna just see your man have fun with the woman, but you're only gonna have fun with your man, that's different. You're not bisexual. Yeah. I am one hundred and thousand ten percent bisexual. Like if this man was not here, I'd probably be with a woman. Yeah. So it's a different, different thing to say I only want to be with one one penis for the ro, you know, we're swingers, but I only want to have him inside of me and nobody else, because yeah, I just don't. Or if you say something like, ~ I would never eat a pussy, give me a break.

34:38 That's the stupidest thing ever. I would never say that. Yeah. No, but there's women out there that say, ~ y I don't eat pussy. Okay. ~ Okay. Good for you. Way to go there, Charlie. You made me rant on something else. I know, you went off, dude. Like you just went crazy. You went downtown.

36:33 So I wonder what the Manosphere guys and this pastor have in common and how they see women. I don't think they see women. I think they see women more as sexual gratification than anything else. Yeah. it's also a power thing. It's a power thing. I mean you you are it is it's of the power of over these people. You can make them do whatever you want them to do. Yeah. and I don't like I don't know if it's necessarily equal. I don't think any relationship is really equal. I think if you're living your life by whatever your Bible says That is the probably the largest mistake you can ever do.

37:18 Isn't isn't that what every religious person wants is to live their life by the Bible? that's kinda but ~ fucked up. There's even people that don't that aren't religious, don't practice religion, but they have that one little speck in their brain where I'm gonna live my life like the Bible said. I'm the man, she's the woman, and I'm you're talking traditional. Yes. Okay, let's let's let's be specific here. Traditional. The whole the whole, ~ I'm gonna live like this and this is my woman and she's gonna Obey me, and this is what right that's when you live your life like that, you're just fucking yourself. Like at some point, this little woman that you call little woman is gonna rise above you and stomp on you like a little ant.

38:05 I mean, if she hasn't already, I'm giving you the power, ladies. You can stomp on them. It's okay. I don't like when men refer to like the Bible or you know, this is what the Bible says and this is what it's I I just I don't know, I think I call bullshit on all of that. some guys would say that at least they're being honest about what they want. Those guys can co kiss my ass. They're not being on being honest with what you want. come on, guys. maybe not fully, ~ it would it under the I the communication portion. they're I do have to say, if you follow the manosphere guys and you live your life through the manosphere guys, you have no reason to be listening to our show.

38:51 ~ ~ period. You have no reason to be in this is not a show and the swinger society life and we don't dig misogynistic little men. Like that's not a No, my wife is very much a feminist. My wife is very much a feminist. And you know, I am I am a woman lover through and through. I I love everything about women. I mean and I've always treated women with ~ percent respect. Yes. so I don't I've met a lot of people who are like that, but I've never been able to be really friends with people like that because I'm just so opposite of that.

39:33 Can you tell my thing? Can you just imagine? Let me just try to find somebody in power, right? Kamala Harris. Alright. Say our homegirl came out here and said, This is my husband. But I've also taken on this gentleman right here as my husband. Do you know how much shit she would get? She would be called a hoe, a skank. She'd be called so many things. So it's funny that you bring it up that way. And I and because we can flip the script on this situation that we were just talking about now. You know, Pastor Lydia comes out and announces that they've taken on another husband.

40:18 Or if she were to said, I have taken on a wife, she is my wife. And I still have my husband. Then does this conversation change? It's gonna change. Is it become more accepted? No. It still won't. It will not be accepted. It'll be still unethical. But it would be it would be called out in a worse situation. I am sure this guy has so many people. you said his congregation clapped for him. Shame on y'all. Like shame for clapping. I just figure I was wondering, you know, if you if you remove the misogyny from and and change no does it does it make it Any different in your eyes? If she's saying it the way she's saying it, yeah, say say just she's just taking it and she's taking it on the Say she she comes down and she says, I'm the prophet.

41:05 Yeah. ~ I would be saying the same to her. Yeah. I'd be like, girl, you are not the prophet. You just like a lot of dick. Like, let's be honest, right? so for me, it it I would still see it the same way because of the wording. It's the wording and the power. Yeah. You know. I any any woman in in power cannot say that. Actually no even if you're not a woman in power and you just come out and be like, yeah, I got two husbands. This is my husband and this is my husband. Do you just a regular person coming out and saying that? A regular woman. You know, we're more familiar and have seen more examples of men taking on wives, multiple wives, than women taking on multiple husbands.

41:48 Yeah. not to say that it doesn't exist, but it is so rare that you don't really you can't really list examples. of it out in the open. Nope. I can easily refer to television shows that refer to men taking on multiple wives, you know, actual documentaries and and recent news stories that reflect these men taking on multiple wives. Always the men. And a lot of them are end up being underage wives. You know, it ends up being some sort of major age gap situation. it it always ends up being okay, well I'm gonna start this young and then all of a sudden it's somebody younger and then somebody younger.

42:34 And that that's what you see a lot of in When it comes up as criminal issues. Yeah. it's rooted in the religion, whatever that religion may be. that show, what shiny people or shiny happy people, it's the whole polygamist I think in Ohio. I don't think I've seen that. Yeah, you saw a soup yeah, super shiny people. It's the it's that whole gentleman who had this big church and the Latter day Saints people, those people and Big Love. It's so there's another one. So Okay. I I I think I know the show that you're talking about. I don't know. It's just bunch of of these, you know, religious women and then they finally interview them. And it's the wives, right?

43:15 So the man had kids with the mom and then those kids came out and he ended up having kids with that kit. Like it's just a circle. And it's not okay. And it's it is abusive and but it's the women that that you have to worry about because they're the ones being Brainwashed. ~ it it's a whole different thing. women don't I you know women don't brainwash men. Men are just as brainwashed as women. This is true. and and you you see it all around like i i it's not just women because there are some really strong ass women who aren't easily swept and and I'm not saying that women cannot brainwash men.

43:57 Yeah. I'm I'm sure there's so many are you kidding? A good set of boobs where we're hypnotized. And and we'll we'll go. And I'm not saying that women do not abuse men. They do. You know, there it it's there's a lot of that. But in this specific situation, if the roles were changed, can you imagine if someone came out woman's fear? Can you just imagine that shit would be squashed? Those women or whatever women would that would be in it. I don't know. I I'm I think I'm about to start that. I don't know. The woman sphere sounds kinda hot. I think I may do that. So that's so the the whole manosphere thing is that they're very they treat women like objects.

44:41 like sexual objects, they want to be the alpha males, they want to be like these looks maxing type of dudes that are always, you know, just making out with whomever they want and doing whatever they please. but they're woman. Now that sounds pig headed and disgusting and gross. Now you flip the switch and you make women in that same role doing that same stuff, being derogatory towards men, doing whatever they. want, making out with who whomever they want, living that life. Is it looked down upon the way the manosphere is looked down upon? Sure. Is it? Yes. Is it?

45:22 Is it? Is it really? Is it really? Let's be real here. Yes. If the woman's fear, no, no, no, man. Let's be let's be okay honest as hell. Go ahead. I'm gonna tell you from the heart, Gothel. From the heart. Tell me. I'm gonna tell you from the heart. If the woman's fear existed. I'd be li I'd be like, that's kinda hot. Yeah. Because it's a woman of power. Yeah. You like that. I do. Do you know how many people don't so but are there women that like that? No. No. No. Huh? No, there's no I am speaking for the all of female humanity.

46:03 They do not want to hear you fucking mansplain to them. They do not want to fucking hear you think that you know it all. No. No. Maybe your grandmother is still in that brain cycle. Maybe if you're my age, maybe your abuela still has that that That kind of mentality, but fuck no. Well, it's just no woman likes that. I guess my point is it's a it's all about the double standard. Salon. It's not a double standard. No, I'm just saying there's a lot of double standards in this. I and maybe not for you, but there's double standards in this. There is not a double standard. Well, there's other double standards. Salon reported that women with non-monogamy on their dating profiles get a very different reception.

46:49 Than men who have non-monogamy on their dating profiles. ~ Why does everyone assume the woman got talked into the lifestyle and never the man? Yeah. That's true. In in most situations, do you think that it's the man talking the woman into the lifestyle? Or do you think that in most situations it's like a half and half situation? I wanna say in the beginning You felt pressure. You always said you felt pressure. Yes, I I probably saw the man doing more of the pushing. You did. And we've talked about it. You did more of the pushing.

47:31 When I first came into the lifestyle, I probably wanted it but had to pull back my ooh, I want this. Why? Because it would upset him and make him jealous. okay. And insecure. Okay. And you know, we wanna raise our men and be nice to them and do whatever they want. But you didn't seem to really enjoy it when we started doing it. No, because I liked you a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That would do it. Yeah. But I I feel like a lot of men do bring up the conversation first. that's all we get messages of how do I bring it up to my girl? How do I bring it up to my wife? How do I talk to her? How do I bring there's gotta be situations where women bring it up to or have to bring it up to their men.

48:14 There is, but if you're gonna go percentage wise, way more men. Way more men. Yeah. I guess you got a point there. You got a point there. No devil's advocate again. Well, has anyone ever assumed that about you? That I brought you into the Yeah. The lifestyle? No. I may have pressured you, but technically you got you got no brain. I got in your brain. You got it in my brain. It was your fault. I just told you, of course. You it was your fault, you know, 'cause you brought it up and you were like, Hey, you know, what do you think about this? Take accountability. All right. So I wanted it more than you did. Yeah. but I was okay with that. It's it's fine.

48:54 Like we had conversations about it and we pulled back and then we went back. So we did a lot of the pull back and forth to get to where we're at. Yeah, and then you f you finally reached the point where you were able to learn how to enjoy yourself. Yes. And actually have good experience. Experiences. Yeah. That took a while. It took a long time. It took a while, but you were able to finally reach that point. People say women run the lifestyle. Do you think that's true? Or is that just something we tell ourselves? I think that's something else tell ourselves. Really? Uh-huh. You don't think that's true? Mm-hmm. We might we might be able to organize events. We're really good at costumes. I feel like women rule this lifestyle.

49:35 They say yes or no. You say yes or no on who we sleep with. I'm a very strong woman. I'm a very strong, independent woman who knows how to use her voice. And if I don't like something, I'm going to say it. But no. I think it's still very men centered and very male dominant. Really? Yeah, I think I think the men are the ones who pull the strings, but only because they're the men. The wim the women who are strong know. And I know a handful of women who are like, Yeah, that's not happening. Yeah, I feel like a lot of women run this route. The women that I know.

50:15 The women you see within me and and my friends and stuff, yes, they're like me. Uhhuh. But the women that are that I like, you know, I've se women and and I know ~ your man ~ your your man is the one who set this up. Mm-hmm or your man is the one who runs this. I already know. Huh. But I think it's a more percentage of the men, for sure, that run it. Wow. Yeah. So how does the lifestyle treat single women and unicorns compared with single men? Do think the treatment is the same? No. No. No. No. Again, going back to that whole one penis policy, they want more women. They treat them as objects. I feel like the older you get in the lifestyle, you see a better situation of how they treat women.

51:02 And I think now in the society that we're living in now, there women know how to remain, Strong. there's something that's funny in this community is that people are more vocal about or couples are more vocal about their want for unicorns for single women. We're looking for a woman. We're gonna wanna add a woman to our relationship, etcetera, etcetera. I think that there are just as many couples looking for single men. Mm-hmm. But they're not as vocal about it. They're not as vocal about it. Because of how it may look. ~ really? Yeah. No, I don't think so about that.

51:42 Yeah, it's the same thing as when a guy comes out as bisexual and then all of a sudden the guy of the couple or the other couple is like, turned off by it. I so they think that it's gonna make a difference. I don't think I don't think they're they're scared of to say, I want a single man to come join us for my wife's pleasure. I don't think that's a a big deal. I d I don't see it as often out in the open You don't. But as a matter of fact, a lot of guys who refer to themselves as bulls or just make their way through the lifestyle as single men. Mm-hmm. A lot of are on the low. And I think, I was talking to somebody about this. It's because of the When a guy comes out and says, I'm a bull or I'm this, it's because it people I think people think you're trying to show off something.

52:32 You're trying to be better than their man. And the misogynisticness comes out and all that stuff. And I think that's where they get the shorter end of the stick, the single men. But ~ I'm up front. I don't I don't I don't want another man. We're good. We're good here. Thanks. Thanks, friend. If I need you, I'll call you. So you would never leave me for another man? No, I wouldn't leave you for anybody. I would not leave you for anybody if I leave you, it's to be with me. to break away. I think s a a lot of men are afraid a woman will leave their husband for another woman.

53:15 I think a lot of men are scared that their their woman's gonna leave for another man. I've heard that too. Yeah. that happens a lot. Yeah. when it comes to men, I don't feel threatened and I don't feel like there's competition out there. But when it comes to women, they have something I can't offer you. What is that? A vagina. That's okay. Right. That is okay. That's okay. Anyway. So what do you want women to know about owning their own wants in this? You're human. You you you are your own person. The person that you decide to spend your life with or as your partner sexually or or just, you know, whatever, and maybe not sexually, but as your life partner They are just your partner.

54:05 They're not your owner. So if you don't like something, you have to say you don't like it. Fuck hurting their feelings. Fuck whatever they think they want. You're your you are you. You belong to you. You don't belong to anybody else. And It's not okay for you to be used as an object. It is not okay for it not to be an even life. I mean, unless that's your thing. Unless that's your thing. Some people that's their thing. That's your thing. If that's your thing, that's fine. But if it's not and you're in that situation and you see yourself just sinking in and you just don't know how to get out You gotta use your voice, man.

54:48 You have to use your voice. And I know it's easier said than done. I know there's a lot of there is a lot of domestic violence. There is a lot of that they say, it's really hard for a person who has been abused in any way, verbally, physically, it's hard for them to leave their partner. And it's hard for them to speak their mind. Yeah. I've been there. I totally understand. But they're are ways for you to figure it out or ways for you to get to that point if you just stop and look at the big picture and you'll find a like a a way to to to make your words come out of your mouth.

55:29 The no, the no I don't want to do this or yeah no, it's not okay. Yeah. It's I help you. You know I agree. I help you. I feel that most relationships should be as equal as can be when it comes to vocalizing what your wants are, what your needs are. And it's not always pretty. No, no I've I've s I have said no many times and it's it's gotten into little tiffs and little, you know, disagreements but you just have the talk. It is what it is, man. You have the talk and then you have the makeup sex and then you go, Okay, everything Everything's good. Why were we even upset?

56:09 I don't know. It's good. And that's the kind of stuff that you're gonna hear when you come out to Forbidden Fruit on November 15th at our Swinger 101 workshop. Yes. also don't forget that you guys you can share any kind of situation that you got going on out there on our 100% anonymous confessional. Yes. So here's the bottom line, whether it comes from a podcast mic or a pulpit, if the freedom only runs one way, it isn't non-monogamy. It's control with a new label. And if anything today hits close to home and you or someone you love has experienced sexual abuse, you can actually reach out to Rain.

56:52 That's R A I N N. 247 at 800-656-4673 or at R A I N N dot org. That's rain.org. If you lived any of this, whether you get judged for being the woman who wanted it or pushed into something that didn't feel mutual, tell us. Head to beyond-monogamy.com and use our 100% anonymous confessional that I mentioned earlier. While you're there, grab some merch, catch up on episodes and blogs. And when you're ready to meet couples who actually do this the ethical way, head on over to SDC.

57:32 It's where we'd start. Use our link. The code is 38236. Yeah, and you can catch us on FullSwap Radio every Thursday at two p.m. and seven p.m. Central at full swap radio.com and come play with us at krazy winter night. In Kansas City, February 19th through the 21st. Use code BEYOMONO B-E-Y-O-M-O-N-O at KrazyKasbh.com. And that link will be in our show notes. Woo-hoo! Yeah. And with that, we thank you guys for joining us for another episode, and we will see you guys next week. Bye.