What If Non-Monogamy Was Normal? Catholic Guilt & Our Other Lives

0:07 All right, y'all. Before we dive in, a quick heads-up This show is raw, real, and definitely not rated PG We're talking about adult themes, sexual content, and the kinda stuff you probably don't want blasting through your speakers at work or around your kids So grab some headphones, pour your drink of choice, and get comfy Oh, and just so we're clear, we are not licensed therapists, counselors, or sex couches. Sex coaches. Sex coaches Not sex couches We're just a couple of people sharing our lives, experiences, and sexy adventures in ethical non-monogamy.

0:47 So with that, pull up a chair and enjoy the show Hello, and welcome to another episode of Beyond Monogamy. I'm Adam. And I'm Pris. And today we're doing something a little bit different. We got a voicemail this week that stopped both of us in our tracks. Mm-hmm. It wasn't a how do we do this kind of question, it was more of a who would you be question. It was very existential. Yeah. So instead of us explaining it, we're gonna let you hear it. Here's a question for the both of you, individually and collectively. What do you think your lives would have been like?

1:28 For you, Pris, you say you've never been monogamous because you cheated a lot, but you grew up in an environment where you had to be monogamous and you had to be a certain way and you had to be a lady. Same for you for the both of you. Actually, you guys grew up in a Catholic religion where there was a certain standard that had-- you both had to live up to. Now, imagine a world where If you didn't have to be monogamous, where non-monogamy was normal, where would you be?

2:12 How do you think your lives would be different? Would they have been any different? All right. So whoever sent this, thank you. And also, rude, because now we have to actually think about this. Yeah. Yeah. So. Yeah, I know. Uh, it's easy to talk about where we are now. Yes. It's a lot harder to talk about the version of us that never got the chance to exist. We did both grow up Catholic. Mm-hmm. We both grew up in a very specific script of what a good man and a good woman were supposed to look like. And we both, in our own ways, broke out of it. Yeah. So today we're going there. All right. Who were we? How would we have been?

2:52 And would any of it have actually turned out different? Yeah, so, uh, grab a drink, whatever, 'cause we're about to get the cheese down, guys. This one's gonna get very personal. Yeah, that's right. That's right. So that is… Essentially, the question here is- What if? … what if? How, how different would our lives have been- I- … if non-monogamy was always, uh, an accepted stature in society? You know, younger Pris was very into women. Oh. Um, even really young.

3:33 Like, I can remember probably s- for second grade. Wow. Um, I did have… Let me explain this to you really quick. So I was in kindergarten, and I actually had two boyfriends. I had Danny Arredondo and Christopher Gonzalez. You never remember last names. And I remember their na- 'Cause I gr- I went to school the whole time with them. Yeah. And so I remember Christopher Gonzalez's mom was a teacher, and so I knew her. But, like, I remember sitting in kinder, criss-cross applesauce with- Both boys holding each hand Really? Yeah. I remember that. Um, and then probably up until maybe third grade, I, I wanna say third grade, I started to notice girls and how I would go maybe like my, to my cousin's house and they would have a friend in the neighborhood and I would be like… I remember like having that feeling of like Mm-hmm … like what you have when you like someone, right?

4:39 Right. That, that little bit of feeling A little bit of a crush … right? And I, I never pursued that. I mean, obviously here we are. Just because I wasn't… I was… Like many of y'all have said it before, many of y'all know, um, I was raised in a very, you don't date outside of your race and you don't date outside of your gender. Right. And so even though we had people that were in our family, like, you know, we had lesbians, uh, lots of different people, it was still very taboo and, and I was not allowed to, to do any of that. So what would my life look like?

5:21 Wow. I mean, I don't know. Shit. You know, it, it really is a tough, uh, tough way to imagine. I mean, you particularly, it would've been maybe more accepted to come out as bisexual if that, if that were- Maybe … the case. You know, it was very, um, it's a very Mexican household, so I don't even think I would've done that. Yeah. Yeah. I would've never… I, I, I did what I did. I stayed that I was always straight, and I even got to a point where- people, like maybe somebody would mention something about, like, lesbians or say something derogatory towards them.

6:08 I wouldn't even, like, cringe. I would just be like la- I would laugh along with them. Yeah. Um, which is horrible, but, you know. It's just going along with what the group says. Yeah, pretty much. It's the echo chamber … going along. Yeah. You're going along with everybody. You're trying to figure out what you like, what you wanna do, how you wanna live your life, and you see everybody around you, and they're telling you, "This is what you're supposed to do. This is what you're supposed to be." Yeah. And you just kinda go with it. I mean, especially as a girl. Yeah. As a girl, my mom was always on me to look a certain way, to act a certain way.

6:49 You know, um, don't leave the house without putting makeup on. Always make sure you look presentable. Um, make sure that everything is, you know, you… She wasn't very do, do for your man type of woman. She did do for my dad, but she also took care of us, right? She was very much of kinda the way I was when we first got together, very hustler motivated. Yeah. You're gonna take care of the kiddos. You know- Yeah … if I had a grandma here, they would be doing it, but you were in school. You took care of the kiddos. I didn't wanna be home. I didn't wanna be the nurturer. Right. I didn't wanna be that person. Right. My mom was that way, but then she also doted on her, on her husband- Mm-hmm … on my dad.

7:30 And so she didn't raise us to be very, like, do for your man, but more of the You do for me as I do for you. Sure. You know? Maybe she didn't do that in her own life, but she did teach us to. She taught us not to be pendejas. Yeah. Never trust a man. Yeah. You know? There you go. Do for yourself. Make yourself a life. Create your own world. Live in it, but it's gonna be with a man. Uh-huh. You know? Uh-huh. Um, marry wealthy. You know, things like that. And it's- Boy, you really went against the grain on that. I, I did. Several times.

8:10 Um, you know, I, I never really… Maybe my first marriage I thought like that for maybe a little bit. Mm-hmm. And then I got over that shit But yeah, I, I mean, I think I would've had a very totally different life. Probably would've been with a woman. Well, so, but I, I, I'm confused because you're saying that still coming from the family that you came from- Yeah … even if non-monogamy was accepted, you probably still wouldn't be coming out because of how your family was. Because of my family, yeah. Yeah. If they had a different mentality, probably would be okay, right?

8:52 But- Yeah … that, that generation- Yeah … and my grandmother being from, from Mexico and very, very Catholic- Yeah … no. So with that, say in the hypothetical that non-monogamy is just as normalized as monogamy, uh, but you came from the family that you still came from You have the options of non-monogamy- Yeah … but obviously you can't come out as bisexual- Just because you have- So would you still explore non-monogamy? I mean, just because you have the option doesn't mean you're gonna pursue it because o- there's other people looking at you.

9:34 Right. Now, the question would've been if everybody in the world already lived like this, and everywhere it was accepted, any kind of life was accepted, how would you pursue it, right? But in this case, my family is who they are. Yeah, yeah. No, I probably would've still lived the life that I'm living. You know, it's funny, y- your… I guess you could say how you operated your relationship, uh, was really affected by what your family thought. Oh, most definitely. Mine not so much. I stopped giving up when I got with you.

10:15 No. I- I… Not giving up, but I stopped, like, listening to them- Yeah … when I got with you. Yeah. Your family wasn't very much. Uh, no. My, my family didn't really care who I chose to date. Or if you were gay or not. No. As a matter of fact, my mom went through this phase for several years. She, she went home one day and she watched Oprah, and then she watched Ricki Lake, and, uh, it was all about parents hating on their kids who came out as gay. Mm-hmm. And from that point on, she wanted to show and tell me over and over again that it was okay to come out as gay. And I'm like, "Mom, I'm, I, I'm not gay, but thank you." And she would tell me this over and over again.

10:55 "But it's okay if you were. You…" And I think it's, I think she really would've loved me if I was gay. Like, I think- Yeah … she would've really enjoyed that. Um, but sorry to disappoint. I am fully straight. And so that was the only time that she really kind of interjected what I wanted to do or didn't want to do as far as relationship. You know, she's like, "You can love who you want," blah, blah, blah. Uh, which, you know, I think, honestly, I think they were just words to be true. Yeah. Like, like if I dated outside of the race- Yeah … I think there would've been some shit talking 'cause it was a Mexican household too. Most definitely.

11:35 Um, if I- I can see that with your mom. Yeah, absolutely. If, if I had… Well, because my sister did. My sister dated, uh, a- And it had been years, and I had came into the li- Yeah … into your life, and she was still saying horrible things. Oh, man, yeah. Yeah. So I think- In a, in a world where non-monogamy is more accepted or on the same level as monogamy, if me growing up, I think my, my life would've been actually pretty different. Yeah. Uh, because I remember in high school being in relationships with girls and wanting to pursue other, other girls. Mm-hmm. And still wanting to- Getting… Okay, so not getting bored … and, no, no, no.

12:17 But- Just adding- Wanting to- You wanted a harem … pursue what I wanted to pursue. You wanted a harem, just I, you know, I wanted to pursue what I wanted to pursue, you know? Yeah. And if I liked a girl and I was into them, I wanted to pursue them. And, and, uh, I remember, I, I mean, it, it bothered me so much. Like, I felt like something was wrong with me, that I would, I would cry at night. I'd be like, you know, "Jesus, why, why can't I be like everybody else?" Mm-hmm. " What is wrong with me? Why am I so broken?" Like, it's gotta be something, something is wrong with me- Yeah … that I can't seem to just keep eyes, uh, for the person that I'm with. And you still have that problem, but it's not, you don't cry at night now. No, no. Oh, I cry- … at night for different reasons now. Uh, but, uh, but you know, that was- Yeah that was the- Yeah … the big thing for me was I, because had that been accepted, um, I probably would have attempted to have several girlfriends.

13:09 Yeah. And not just to say, "Hey, guys, I have several girlfriends," but just because I, I- You could have several … was very girl crazy. Yeah. You know? I, I think the first time I was interested in a girl was in first grade. Yeah. And I remember, there was two of them, and I always went for older girls because they were in sixth and fifth grade. Oh my God. Yeah, yeah. It was Amy in sixth grade and Selena in fifth grade. Wow. And, uh, I would just turn beat red every time they, they were around. And, uh, I remember- … my sisters found out about it, and they, I had a, I had a toy chest, a wooden toy chest, and my, uh, sister wrote, "I love Amy" all over it.

13:55 Oh, man. Oh, she was torturous. She was torturous, I know. Uh, and so that was kind of the internal shame of, "I don't wanna share my relationships or my love interests or anything like that with my family." Mm-hmm. Because they all thought it was hilarious that she did that. Yeah. Like, I, you know, and I understand, I was in first grade, but I just didn't feel comfortable talking about my relationships with my family- Mm-hmm 'cause they're just s- always the first ones to judge. Yeah. So I think I could have easily pursued non-monogamy if it was, if I knew about it. Yeah. I didn't know about it back then. I mean, so funny story. I had an aunt who was married, and she had a boyfriend, and the boyfriend would come over to the house, and we would all be there.

14:45 They would, all the adults would be at the kitchen table. Her husband- Nobody questioned it? You know, I think I would ask my mom and she'd be like, "Oh, that's just your aunt's friend." But I didn't know who my uncle was for, like, a bit. Yeah. And then I was like, "Oh. Oh, w- who's this?" And it lasted, it had to have lasted for years. Really? Like, years. Oh, wow. I mean, I'm curious to find out. I may reach out to my cousin and ask, like, for how long, and did John know? But- So here's the thing. I feel like there's a lot of people who have kept ongoing relationships, and sometimes maybe, maybe everybody was in on it, maybe they weren't.

15:37 Maybe there was a lot of cheating. I knew a guy who had two different families. But- Oh my goodness. Oh, yeah. But y- you know, the thing about it is, is if monogamy and non-monogamy were treated equally- Mm-hmm … as a relationship status, w- would there still be as much cheating as we know there to be? I don't, I don't know. Probably not. You know, I- I, I know people think, "Oh, I don't wanna share. I don't wanna do this and that," but What if, what if, what if somebody brought it up to you and was like, "Look, I'll stop cheating on you, but you gotta be non-monogamous"?

16:18 Yeah. I mean, it would be- I don't know … I, I tell our kids, "You don't have to just have one relationship." Like, I tell them, like, like, like, "Go, venture out." And then they roll their eyes and they go, "I know, Mom. I know." And they roll their eyes, and that's because… Yeah, like, so talk about the environment, like, their s- their, where they, you know, their friends and their schooling and all that, bringing that into a life of where they're at, right? They're only monogamous people- Yeah … our kids. And they're raised in a non-monogamous home. Mm-hmm. But I think because they don't see it, they just hear it, I don't think that it resonates with them.

17:00 Well, you know, I always hear the same thing, not necessarily from our kids, but I hear it often in the monogamous world and even in the non-monogamous world, uh, people saying, "I want my, my one person." Like, several people are down to be non-monogamous- I've heard that, yeah … but they want their one person. I, it- You know? Yeah. I mean- It's, it's, it's something that's ingrained in us that's kinda smashed in our- It's- … brains from the, the moment we're, we're children, we're little babies. Yes. You know? It's the, it's in the fairy tales. It's the prince and the princess getting married. Yeah. It's, it's all of the things that we're led to think growing up. And especially you and I being Catholic.

17:41 Mm-hmm. All the weddings that we've seen. Mm-hmm. You know? A- a- and this is, this is the kind of behavior that we're taught. You know, there was a lot of toxic behavior that we accepted as normalized behavior growing up. Yeah. I remember there was, there was people who I knew w- that were friends that were together that believed if they didn't fight with each other, that meant that they didn't care about each other. That's crazy. If they weren't jealous, and if they didn't make each other jealous, they didn't care about each other. And they would celebrate these toxic traits, and it's not until you reach a certain point and you're like, "Oh, that's, that's horrible." Yeah. No. That's not healthy. No, that's not healthy. Yeah. But that's what we're led to believe, is that you should find your, your sweetheart- Mm-hmm … the love of your life.

18:27 That's what you're working on. And I- I don't know how many times I said, "Oh, I'm just looking for the one." Everybody wants to have a partner, like, I get… I, I understand that part. You want somebody to kind of grow old with and, and, and kind of enjoy your life with, right? Yeah. Doesn't mean it have to be one person. Doesn't have to be one person. It could be a lot of different people. Yeah. But I do understand That. I understand the, the wanting- Having a primary or wanting a primary … having a primary. Yeah. Yeah. I, I get that. Um, and I, I, I mean, I really hope that everybody has at least one person they can always, like, turn to and whatever. Um, so I understand that. I mean, I've, I've also heard from the exact opposite. I've talked to people who are poly who straight up say, "I'm pretty happy not being-" Attached to anybody … "a primary to anybody." Yeah.

19:14 Yeah. You know, "I get to come and go as I please." Now, is that a commitment issue? Uh, you know, it, it really depends on the person. It does, yeah. Uh, it depends on the person. I honestly think that would… That's kind of ideal. I don't know if I could do it, but I, I, I think that's kind of ideal. Y- I like sharing this life with you. Yeah. I like the fact that, that we are primaries. I, and, and I look forward to telling you my stories and experiencing things with you. Yeah. Um, it's, it's hard to take on somebody else to play that role- Yes … when you've been that prominent person in my life for the past 15 years or so.

19:54 Yeah. You know? Um, there are certain things that I wanna share with you, like big, big moments in my life. Mm-hmm. And the thought of not sharing it with you and sharing it with somebody else, it kind of- Makes you sad makes me sad. Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean- Yeah … agreed. I, it's… When you find that person, you find that person. Yeah. Yeah. Now, do you think that- And it's not for everybody … do you think it's possible to find, uh, that person more than once at the same time? I don't, I don't, I don't know. I don't think so. I mean- Like, people talk soulmates all the time and- I, I had a connection with you instantly. Yeah.

20:34 Like, it was, it was pretty instant. Yeah, it was. Um, so I've never had that experience with anybody else. And you never will, by the way. Ever. I, I bet- Never … I'm sure. Never, guys. Never. I'm sure. But, like, I've never felt it with anybody else. I've never had a- Yeah … pull or a want to, like, really get to know somebody. Yeah. No. Yeah. 'Cause you, well, 'cause you- Yeah. I mean, that's why poly didn't work for me, guys, so. Yeah, yeah. You know, I, uh- Like I said, I enjoyed the thought of poly, but I think now where I'm, where I'm at and where we're at in our- Mm-hmm relationship, and just how flexible and open it is, you know, I would, I would hate to go back to poly and, and try to experience that all over again.

21:26 I don't know. Yeah. It just doesn't… It sounds like more stress and trouble right now- Yeah … than what it needs to be. Ex- exactly. You know? Uh, because, A, we're back to the whole time sharing thing, uh, which is not fun. Yeah. Uh, B, I have kind of, I guess thanks to the podcast and, and everything with that, I've kinda gone back into my shell a little bit. Uh, and there are times where I definitely don't wanna socialize with people, I don't wanna talk with people. Yeah. I damn sure don't wanna have another relationship with somebody else. Uh, so you know, it's one of those things where you're, you're always by my side. Right.

22:06 Uh, do you remember when we were first dating and how I needed space? Oh, yeah. I was not accustomed to being smothered. Yeah. Um, and- Oh, I remember when we moved in together. Yeah, we moved in together, and, uh, it was the first night of us staying in the same home together. S- 'cause we were dating for two years- Yeah … and we were neighbors. Yes. And we very rarely slept at each other's apartments because we always had children, and we were really… The time that we had with our kids is the time that we had with our kids. Yeah, yeah. So we officially moved in together. We did, we did. And that's when I learned, uh, how suffocating you can be with your love.

22:47 For sure. And, and I didn't really realize that then. Uh, but I remember we had a king size bed. Mm-hmm. And, uh, we're sitting there, w- we're laying in the bed, and you're right against me, and on my side of the bed. Now, previous to you, the woman that I was with, we slept with pillows in between us- Yeah on bed. So I was used to having my side of the bed and her side of the bed. Right. And I was expecting that. And you were, you were smothering me. You were right there, you were breathing on me, and it just made me feel very uncomfortable at the moment. Yeah. And I remember I looked over at you and I was like, "Can I get, can I get a little bit of space?"

23:28 And, uh, I remember the look that you gave me is one that I'll never forget because it was like, uh, "Oh, really, motherfucker?" Um, your eyes kinda got wide. Your mouth was slightly open, uh, like shocked that I said that. And then you said, "Sure." And you nudged yourself over- I went to the- … .. bathroom. I brushed my teeth. I put moisturizer on. Yeah. Yeah. And then I came back to the- Uh, and then you came back to the bed, and I could feel you looking at me. Uh, and I looked up, and you said, "Is that, is that good? Uh, did, did you have enough? Because that's the last amount that you're ever getting."

24:14 Ever. And, uh, I laughed. And, you know, to your credit, that was the- truest thing that you've ever fucking said to me, ever. I mean, seriously, people, this man, he's… If I'm not laying in his arms and we're in bed- … he looks at me like, "Where, why are you not here?" It's because you've gotten me totally- … dependent on feeling you, uh, in order to go to sleep or anything like that. It's, it's, it's horrible. But it's also, it's, it's nice, but it's horrible. Yeah. Because you have created this wonderful dependency- … of which I cannot… I can't put that on anybody else.

24:55 No. I don't feel comfortable- I wouldn't either … being like that with anybody else, you know? And, and, uh, I could probably… Nah, no. I don't, I don't think it's… I don't think it's something I can do. It's not doable. I don't think so. I mean- I don't think so … maybe it's not doable 'cause we don't want it to be doable, but whatever. We're gonna take that. You know, uh, uh, there was a lot of, of, of societal norms that I had to remove from my head to be non-monogamous. Mm-hmm. Um, and that's because I think I was non-monogamous at, by heart just my whole life. Right. But for you, you could really easily be monogamous. Yes.

25:36 Like- I- … non-monogamy is not- Nah. It's not a big deal for you. No, it's not a big deal for me. Like, this is more of a, we do this for fun. Yeah, yeah. I'm, I'm good with, um, just, just being with you for the rest of my life. Not, not to say that you don't, but, like, being with you for the rest of my life and… Good. People can lust, and that's it. People can lust and that's it. Yeah. People can lust. Now- But, uh, I don't… Yeah, no … you, you would be able to go back to being a normalized monogamous person after living this life? Would you be able to, like, stop everything the way you've been doing and just go back to- For sure.

26:16 Wow, really? Yeah, for sure. I can. Damn. Yeah. That's- I mean- That's nice. Good for you. Yeah. I, I don't have a problem with that at all. It's like, okay, cool I also can go without sex for a very long time, so I cannot. Yeah. I cannot. My goodness. So it's- Yeah … it's, you know, different people. Yeah. But yeah, I could definitely go back to… I mean, come on, I can also be a housewife and just stay home. So give me a good life and I'm good. You know, I don't believe that. I could. I don't believe that. I don't think you could be a housewife. If you said, "Honey, you don't have to cook. You have s- we have somebody to cook for us. We have somebody to clean for us. I don't ever have to work." Are you crazy?

26:57 Yes. Yeah. I would totally live that life. No convincing here, sir. Oh, no, no. I j- I don't have the money- No … for you to be a housewife, that's for sure. Yeah. You gotta work, girl. Yeah. So, I mean, it's, it's one of those things where I don't know if I could go back to monogamy. Like, I, uh, the priority is always our relationship- Yeah … so if, if it, if our relationship- I think you could … relied on it, I could. Yeah. I think, I think you could. But- It's- … it would take a lot because- Hmm … I've really… I've changed a lot of my m- I mean, a lot of my- I think if that ever happens- … confidence comes from this it happens by accident. Like- What do you mean?

27:38 Like, the lifestyle just fizzles. Like, you know, we move somewhere. Oh, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? True. But if we have a choice, hmm. True. It's just, I think I'm more flirty now. I mean, you've always been flirty. Have I? Yeah. Really? Yes. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know, guys. Okay, real quick before we get back into it, we gotta talk about sdc.com. Oh, yes. Okay, so if you don't know SDC, it's basically the largest online community for open-minded adults. Which, if you're listening to this show right now, I feel like you probably already know if that's your scene. Yeah. It's your people all in one place.

28:19 Just make a profile and go explore. No weirdness, no judgment, just a ton of like-minded humans living their lives, just like us. Honestly, it's kinda fun just to poke around. Yeah, it really is. Go sign up at sdc.com. Use code 38236. Link's in the show notes. Okay. Now back to what we were saying. Yes Catholic guilt. Yeah. What do you think about Catholic guilt? I think it, it sits- You had Catholic guilt. I had it for a little bit because my babies were little. Um- It went away really quick. Didn't last long. I mean, so it went away because I just, I don't believe that anybody else can, uh, especially a religion can tell me how I should feel.

29:06 Uh-huh. And when I figured that out, I was like, okay. And the hypocritical people that are in the religion, when I finally realized that- Mm I was like, oh, that guilt went away really fast. Yeah. So if, you know, I just started breaking down walls and I was like, oh, you're hating on me because I'm bisexual? Like, like, you know, and, and, like, deep in church. It's like, nah. I, I just… Y- well, you know, for me, I… It was harder for me 'cause I, I was in the seminary- Yeah … you know? And so, um- See a lot of gay people around you. I did actually, yeah. Yeah. There w- there was actually a lot of, uh, probably about half the class- Yeah … that I started with, um, were, were gay.

29:53 Um, and- In secret. In secret, yeah. And there, there would be, like, messing around in, like, the showers and stuff, like, there was stuff going on. Yeah. Um, which, I mean, hey, you're not priests, so whatever. Do as you please. Um, but seminarians, I mean, they're… You really were there to hold yourself to a certain standard. You were there to learn. Um- And not fraternize with the girls. Yeah, they said to act, um, don't act different than anybody else, but also don't talk to women. Um, and that was a problem for me because I am s- I, I'm, I'm girl-crazy, like, my entire life.

30:34 I mean, if I was girl-crazy in elementary and I was girl-crazy in high school, obviously I was girl-crazy in college. And to have a college year where I'm I'm dressed in a, you know, in a full-blown,, black robe that we used to wear, uh- To class? Sometimes. Sometimes- Wow … depending on the, the, you know, what, what was going on. A lot of times we could dress as, as usual. But the class… I mean, that, that college was used to it because of the seminary. Yeah, yeah. It's so close, so. 'Cause the seminary- Yeah … was attached to the college. Yeah. Um, and so I remember struggling because there was a lot of really pretty girls- Mm-hmm that I was in school with.

31:18 Uh, I was a philosophy major, and there was really attractive women. And I remember one of the reasons why I left or I decided to leave the seminary, uh, was because, uh, a friend of mine had… He, he called me to, to go spend, uh, spring break with him in St. Louis. He was a professor- Mm-hmm uh, at St. Louis University. And, uh, he was house-sitting for a professor. And so I came. We, I stayed at his apartment one night, and then we stayed at this house that we were house-sitting the rest- Mm-hmm … of the time. And we threw parties every single night.

31:58 It's horrible. But we threw parties every single night. Um, and we would invite different people that- Yeah … were in the circle, you know? And, uh, I met this girl, and I, to this day I don't remember her name, but, uh, kind of a, a nerdy girl, but she was pretty. Mm-hmm. You know? And, uh, I remember talking to her and just being kind of enamored, like, wow, this is- Yeah. This is kinda nice, you know? Mm-hmm. So we had really great conversations. We, you know, had nights where we would go to dinner, this and that, you know, with our group of friends, but it was always her and I. Mm-hmm. And she, she was, uh, I, I wanna say she was on her last year, uh, to be a brain surgeon.

32:45 She was studying to be a brain surgeon. Incredible. It was a graduate student. Um, and so she was gonna be graduating, and she gave me her phone number, and she said, uh, "You know, I'd, I'd really like to talk to you some more. Um, you know, see, see where this goes or whatever." Yeah. And I was like, "Yeah, sure." 'Cause I never did anything that was gonna bring scandal to the church. Right. I spent time with this person, but I didn't operate in any other way but respect. Mm-hmm. You know? Um, so she gave me her number and, and she left, and I never saw her again. I didn't keep the number. I got rid of the number. Ugh. I did. I did because, like I said, I didn't wanna cause scandal to the church.

33:26 Yeah. But I remember distinctly after that, I had this whole crisis 'cause I was like, "I, I can't be a priest." Mm-hmm. "I can't be a priest." Mm. "Like, there's no way I can do this. I can't do this. Like, this… I can't be locked down and not be able to experience what could possibly be out there." Right. You know? Um, and so I s- I went back to the seminary and I basically told everybody, "I'm gonna finish out this year and then I'm gone," you know? Um, and so I, I left. When I left after that year, uh, I noticed that, uh, a lot of people had turned their backs on me and, and there was a lot of things that came to light that, that really kinda turned me off about being involved in an organized religion.

34:17 Mm-hmm. Not to trash the Catholic religion, or any religion for that matter, but nothing really puts you off to an organized religion than being groomed to be a leader in it. Right. You know what I mean? Yeah. You get to see things that most people with blind faith do not see. Yeah. You get to hear people talk one way and then go out in front of the congregation and talk a completely other way. Mm-hmm. Um, and frankly, I've always been a, y- you know, one of those that calls out, uh, hypocritical people. Right. And I did that a lot, and I pissed a lot of people off, you know?

34:58 Um, and, and so that just made it very easy for me to be- Mm-hmm … turned off by the whole thing. Mm-hmm. I said, "If I can, I'm gonna be spiritual, but I don't need to be a part of any kind of religion." Yeah. Um, now if non-monogamy were to be open to the world as a relationship structure. Um, like I said, I think my life probably would've been very different because I went off to the seminary because I was cheated on. Yeah. And I had nothing better to do, and I wanted- Yeah … to leave town. So that's why I went into the seminary. Wow. Yeah. So, uh, you know, monogamy kind of really was interwoven in my life and how- Yeah things happened- Yeah … and this and that.

35:43 And then I was with my, my first wife. Mm-hmm. And we were not married by the church. We were together for a long time, we weren't married by the church, and because of pressure from my godfather and my parents, we got married by the church. Yeah. And then we were divorced a year later. And then you wanted to get married by the church, and I had to go through this annulment process, and I had to do all this pa- And we didn't even get married through the church. Yeah. You know? It's so… It's such a hassle, and it's like- It really is … just to, just to get- Yeah … married into the church, you know, it's like you would think it would be more inviting. No, it is not- But, hmm … at all.

36:25 I don't know. At all. Yeah. Boy, I went on a whole tangent on that one. You did. It's okay. I did. I did. It's like our therapy. You're good. I ge- I know, I never get to talk about this stuff. Yeah. That's all right. Uh- Cultural. Cultural. So, yeah. We're Mexicanos. Yeah. Like, we are the epitome of a Chicano family being raised in that type of life. So just imagine that is It's, it's hard to come out as gay, it's hard to come out as anything in the LGBTQ community. Like, it's a very rare thing. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of machismo-ness. Yes. And so, uh, you know, toxic masculinity, I've mentioned it in past episodes, it's a thing.

37:11 Mm-hmm. Um, it's something that we fight in this community quite a bit because, uh, toxic masculinity does spew in, uh, from people who are not really thick in the community. Maybe they're newer, maybe they, they aren't, uh, really privy to how this community works and that sort of thing, and they bring in some machismo things. They do. You know. They do. Uh, yeah. And let me tell you guys, it's… comes out in your pores. It's pretty obvious. Like, um, w- you can always tell who is the, who is the insecure machista in the, in, in the lifestyle.

37:51 Yeah. Oh, for sure. Yeah. I can- For sure … I can get that. Yeah. Uh, you know, you get a lot of these guys who feel like they have to be alpha, alpha males. Mm-hmm. Um, a lot of these guys who are single guys, now I'm not trashing single guys, but there's a lot of, quote-unquote, "bulls" who boast themselves to be these, uh, alpha males. Mm-hmm. self-proclaimed doms- Mm-hmm … things like that. Mm-hmm. Uh, realistically, they, they aren't. They're just, they like to be rough with women. Yeah. And that's- Yeah … they think that all women want that.

38:35 And, uh, you know, you've, you've had guys try that- Oh … with you before. So many times. And it's like, "No." And, and with your culture- No with how you were raised- Yeah … you're ready to beat some ass if somebody- Always … uh, does something to you, you know? It's like, "No." Yeah. Yeah. Women are not your property. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, so, you know, I know when we were poly, uh, and we were living in our hometown- Mm-hmm … uh, we decided to explore non-monogamy as Hispanics. Yes. Um, and what I found was there is not, or at that time, there was not a very large Latinx community- No … uh, in the non-monogamy field.

39:33 It's because I, because of that. I think because of the, the machismo-ness and the women are very insecure, very jealous, very territorial. Yeah. As I tell everybody, I'm very territorial. I'm very protective. Um, but when that spills in with somebody who is very controlling also- Yeah … it's just too, it's y- it's very rare. So it, when we s- we couldn't find any Latinos. Like it was rare. No, it was very, very difficult. Now, it's more prominent. Oh, yeah. Now, it's more prominent. I see it more and, and it, I think the pandemic helped put all of this- Helped loosen up some out in the fore- the forefront. But I think back when we were, uh, first- Yeah … exploring it, no.

40:14 No. No way. No. Um, and which was unfortunate because that's who you were attracted to. You wanted to, if you were gonna date anybody- It was gonna be a Latino … it was gonna be a Latino. Mm-hmm. And that was so difficult for you to find. I remember starting Facebook groups and trying to, uh, you know- Yeah … get this ball rolling- Dude … so to speak, and it was not happening. It was not. And I- Not at all … I know a lot of it is brought up, uh, because of religion. Mm-hmm. Um, and it, it's not only the dating, but it's also the sexual aspect of it, you know? It's- Yeah … religion binds us. And so us as a people- Mm-hmm … there's s- there's several people who are very territorial, but also I think it's rooted in the religion as well 'cause- Oh, for sure … our culture is- Yeah … rooted in religion.

41:05 Yeah. We have a lot of things against us. Yeah. Yeah, we do. Yeah. Well, we're not poly, so it's okay. No, we are not. We are not. So when I say I'm, I've never been monogamous, I've always been in monogamous relationships, but either he was cheating or I was cheating, so we weren't… We were just cheaters. So you knew he was cheating? Yes. And did he know- I would go- … you were cheating? No. Okay. Until after I cheated. Um, so when you cheated on him, w- was it just to get him back?

41:48 Yes. But he didn't know. No. So who was it for, really? Well, I mean, he would find out, like, the night of. Okay. So I would go out, and then he would end up being, like, at my apartment or my, at my house and- Uh-huh see me come home with another guy and be like, "Oops." Uh-huh. Or, um, he was out of state dating some chick, thought I didn't know, and I was like, "I know." So then I was here, and I dated somebody- Uh-huh … or cheated on him, and then, you know. Oh. Yeah. Thank God, too. I mean, you know, I'm not home. It's gonna make him jealous. Toxic. Yeah. Yeah. Now, was cheating the only door available when there was no honest version of what you wanted?

42:30 I mean, I was always honest with what I wanted. They just weren't accepting of it. Yeah? Yeah. Like could you have- I wanted a one person. Could you have explored women with him? No Really? No. You don't think so? Oh, no. Up until when I started playing with women behind his back, he was- But he used to cheat on you with other women with women. Well, the girl he cheated on me- Yeah … was a lesbian, and she wanted to date me, and I was like, "No, I'm married." She's like, "You could leave him." And then all of a sudden, boom, they're together, and it's like, what? Yeah. Wow. Um, so he sh- I mean, he would've been so lucky.

43:10 Yeah. Well, if you could talk to younger Pris in the middle of all of that, what would you have told her? Live your life. Yeah? Do not worry about anybody else. Live your life. Fuck men. Educate yourself. Live your life. Everything will fall where you want it. You know, I, I, I struggled in my first marriage, uh, because I wanted to cheat. Yeah. And I was mentally cheating. Yeah. You know? Like, I, I wanted to cheat. I was miserable that entire time. Mm-hmm. Um, I was with, uh, an insecure person who used to accuse me of cheating, and I remember just saying, "Well, if she's gonna accuse me, I might as well just go out and do it." Oh, yeah.

43:54 You know? And I don't know how many times I said that, but I never, I never did. Um, and I remember thinking, "Man, I, I totally should have. I totally should have." Um, but then it was around that time that I said, towards the end there, that I was like, "Why would I wanna be with this person and be cheating on her?" Right. So then I broke it off. Well, when I broke it off, she told me, "Just stay with me. You can get a girlfriend." Right. "It's okay." And I remember being really weirded out by that. Yeah. I think I ha- probably have said it. She told me that I could stay with her- Yeah … and I could get a girlfriend.

44:34 Yeah. As lo- like, almost like the, the relationship was just a show, and she doesn't want anybody, you know- Yeah … to see any changes. Mm-hmm. You can go get a girlfriend. Yeah. And I remember feeling cringe about it. A- and, and I had friends that were like, "For real? Fucking get a girlfriend, man." And I was like, "No." Like, I don't… If I'm gonna get a girlfriend, I'm not gonna be with her. Yeah. You know? Like, uh, uh, that's, that sucks. You know, all this time she's been accusing me of cheating, and then she's telling me I can go get a girlfriend? What the fuck is that? That makes no sense at all. She didn't want you to leave her. Obviously. Yeah. Uh, and that was not okay with me, even though I am non-monogamous by heart.

45:17 Yeah. That was my option right there. That was your option. You could've had a triad. No way, man. A tria- a tri- A triage? What is it called? A throuple? A throuple. What the fuck? A triad? Yeah. Wow, you went through all the words there. Something that I used to say all the time, was, "I'm looking for the one. I'm trying to find the one." Yeah. And I don't know how many times I said that, and it's like, man, I wish I could just find the one. And you found her. Is she the one? Is she the one? Is she the one? And I went through with lots of ones. And then I got with a 10, and forget it, that was it. I- Boom, boom. That's right. That's right. I knew, I knew right away. You know, I had never experienced, uh, love at first sight.

45:57 Mm-hmm. And boy, I did with you. Yeah, same. I was, I was hit. I, I always tell my friends, it was like I got hit with a thunderbolt, and there's no other way to explain it. Yeah. Uh, because it, it was like just seeing you and there was just this energy and I was like, man, she is incredible. And you know what's cool is I still get to feel that way about you. I think that's exciting. I am incredible. Yeah. And you really are the one. And, and, and I think- I agree. I mean, you're the one. Yeah. So I totally under- I… N- I'm not tooting my own horn. I'm incredible. He's incredible. You know, and, and we've talked about doing poly with others- Yeah and this and that and, and, and whatnot, and w- who knows what's gonna happen in the future, but I don't think that there's ever going to be a time where this is not a primary, the one- Yeah … type of relationship.

46:50 Yeah. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Like, we're always gonna be- Mm-hmm … priority to each other. And some people in the polyamorous community would, would dog on that, and they would say, "Well, that's not right." And I think, you know, if that's your agreement, and that's what everybody agrees to, I think it's just fine. Let's agree to disagree. Yeah. I think it's okay. What did you expect marriage to be when you were 20? Well, my friend, I was 18 when I got married the first time. And it sucked. I was, uh, 23 when we- Mm-hmm found out we were having a baby. I was 24 when he was born. Um, and we were officially married, uh, many years later.

47:36 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I didn't move in with him or anything until I was married. So when I got married, I moved in with him. Yeah. Yeah, so 18. Um, what did I expect? I expected to be married forever, um, with that person and have a life and grow old. Uh, and when none of that happened, I was like, "Oh, okay." I expected more sex. Yeah. Uh, I, it, I had way less. Yeah. Almost none. Um- Yeah … which I guess is, is fine. You know, I mean, to many people, sex is not a big deal in the relationship. Uh, to me, it's a big enough deal that I need some sort of affection.

48:19 Like, we don't actually… Like, I understand things happen, maybe someone's not feeling good or whatever, you know, sex isn't a mandatory thing. Mm-hmm. Uh, but I would like some sort of sexual- You would like to have sex … enjoyment in- Yeah … in, in the relationship. Yeah. You know? Uh, it doesn't have to be all the time. I would've liked to have good sex. Good sex. Yeah, you didn't have any good sex, huh? No. Now, at some point you were with husband number two and you guys became swingers. Yeah. And that was your opportunity to have good sex. Did you end up having good sex- No … with anybody? Mm-mm. No? Really? Even the experiences back then weren't good?

49:00 Nope. You didn't have a single good sexual experience? No. Wow. Yeah. Wow. It's gotta be tough to be a woman. Yeah. It is. It's gotta be tough. It is. That sounds horrible. But you don't realize it's bad sex until you get older. Really? And you're like, "Oh, bad sex." So if you're having bad sex, what's the excitement to have sex? If every single time you have bad sex- So, like, s- like, was it fun? It was fun, but like, s- good sex, like the sex that I have now is like, mm. Yeah. If I could have that then, wow. Really? Yeah. Huh, that's interesting. Yeah.

49:41 Now, when did you realize that you were an exhibitionist? Hmm Hmm. Probably when I started the swinger life Like early on? Mm-hmm. So you would like it when people would watch you with others? Yes. Really? Yeah. I used to like… Actually, even with my first husband, I used to like for him to watch me finger myself. Really? Mm-hmm. No kidding. Yeah. I didn't know that. Mm-hmm. Now, did you guys have sex where others could watch? Um, when we were younger. Yeah. But just by like, "Oh, your friend's in here," like we're teenagers. Uh, we were together from like 13, so. Yeah. Um, yeah. Yeah. But that was the only time, like y'all didn't like- That was the only time. Yeah, no. Oh.

50:21 Mm-mm. And then when you got with your second husband, that's when you guys started pursuing, uh, swinging. Yeah. And we would get on like video chats with people, like on AFF and stuff like that. And just pretty much, I, we wouldn't have sex, it was just mainly me in front of the camera. I don't know how did, how did this come up? Like- The swinger? Yeah, like because I know him and I know you back then, and how could that have ever come up? Um, I think we just started talking about how I liked girls maybe, and then we just You know, he brought it up somehow.

51:04 I do not remember Yeah. So you think he just brought it up so he could have sex with other women? Um, maybe. Maybe. Like I, I mean, probably What, what other reasons would there be? Well, I mean, we had sex, so you know? I think I would just… I think I would mention the women, and I think that's how it kind of went that way. Yeah. And then he was like, "Well, I would like to be with another woman." I'm like, "Okay," because I didn't really have that love with him. Yeah. So I was like, "Sure, let's go." And when we started going, like, we went to a club, and we went twice, and I remember just having some fun or, like, watching people, and I was like, "Ooh, I would totally do that, and I would totally do that," and- No kidding.

51:53 Yeah. And then from there… Hmm. Yeah. Hmm. That's interesting. Okay. Here's, here's something that, uh, is maybe worth a little fun here. Okay. Picture a world where non-monogamy is normal. Okay. Your parents talk about it openly. Church does not condemn it. Nobody hides anything. At age 18, who are you dating and how many people? I would probably be dating a guy and a woman. Yeah? Yeah. And… Multiples or just…?

52:34 Probably just, just one of each. Yeah. Yeah. Just one of each. Wow. I would probably have, uh- Multiples … a few, a few- Yeah … a few girlfriends. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I probably would. Sounds like a good time. That, that would've been, at 18? Yeah. Yeah. Well, I… But I would've also been putting pressure on myself as well. Yeah. So, I don't know. Yeah. Now, in that kind of world, do you ever cheat, or does that behavior just not exist? No, it doesn't even exist. Right? ' Cause I c- as long as I'm being honest with them- 'Cause you can pretty much do whatever you want … and be like, "Hey, I really wanna fuck the neighbor." Yeah. You cool with that? As long as it's out in the open. Now, would you have gotten married? Um, no.

53:15 No? No. And I probably wouldn't have had kids. No kids? Mm-mm. So you would've just been- Just been a ho … exploring your whole life? Mm-hmm. Yep. Wow. Talk about alternative world. Alt. Jeez. You? Would you have had kids? Um, I think so, yeah. Yeah? I think I would've- Would you have gotten married? I would've started a family with somebody. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And still been non-monogamous. No, I'm good with no. Yeah? I love my children now. So yours would've been just pure sexual non-monogamy. Pure sexual non-monogamy. So almost like a solo poly- Yes you come and go as you please- Yes … but just do what you want. Yes. Yeah.

53:55 Yeah. Yeah, no, I, I probably would be in v- I would probably be a part of a throuple. I'd be raising a family. I'd be like that most likely. Sounds about right. Yeah. Now, this is an interesting one. Do we still find each other? You know, we've, we've talked about this. Um- According to her, doesn't matter what alternative life we live- We would've found each other because we're soulmates … we would've found each other. Like- ' Cause we're soulmates … we would've found each other. Yeah. I think so. Yeah. Yeah. Well, if we're non-monogamous, I'm dating others, you're solo poly, we're gonna date. You'd find me. And you would, you would be like, "Well, let's do this."

54:35 " He's mine. Thanks. Bye." Oh my gosh. What relationships from your past would've gone differently? Um, I haven't, uh, uh, uh, I don't know if y'all know, but I didn't really date a lot, so I was… I dated, I married. The second person I married, I dated before my first husband, so I ended up marrying him. Um, so I didn't really do that. Would they have gone differently? Yes. They wouldn't have existed. You know, I don't think I would've been m- married to the woman that I was married to the first time- I, yeah … if I had been non-monogamous. Because when I was dating her, I was also dating two other women. Yeah. And, um, all, all three of them seemed nice, but I went with the one that I ended up getting married to.

55:25 Mm-hmm. And if I could've been non-monogamous, I would've dated all three of them for a good length of time without- Yeah … having to feel like I had to go to just one. Yeah. And I would've been able to see who's who for what, you know? Yeah. And then I would've been protected from there. Yeah. You know? Uh, but yeah, it would've been, it would've been pretty different. Yeah. So to whoever left us that voicemail, I think the honest answer is yes, our lives would be totally different. Maybe less pain, less hiding, fewer people hurting along the way. Yeah. But I don't know if we'd be with us. Like, a lot of who we are came from figuring it out the hard way. It was all a journey- Yeah going through what we went through.

56:07 Yeah, it really was. If there's anyone who's listening who's still in that before part of their story, just know it's never too late to write your own story. And we wanna hear yours. If you grew up with the rules that didn't fit, tell us what your other timeline looks like. Head on to beyond-monogamy.com and use our 100% anonymous confessional. Lifestyle, ENM, kink, the show, anything you wanna tell us. Yeah. And while you're there, check out the merch, catch up on past episodes, and read the blogs. And if you wanna hear us on the radio, that's streaming radio, we're on Full Swap Radio every Thursday at 2:00 PM and 7:00 PM Central at fullswapradio.com. Yes. And we're counting down to Krazy Winter Nights in Kansas City.

56:51 It's February 19th through the 21st. Get your tickets at krazykasbh.com and use code BEYOMONO. That's B-E-Y-O-M-O-N-O. We wanna see you there, guys. Yeah. And with that, we thank you all for joining us for another episode, and we will see you guys next week. Bye.