We Were Mid-Conversation and Accidentally Made a Podcast Episode

0:07 All right, y'all. Before we dive in, a quick heads-up This show is raw, real, and definitely not rated PG. We're talking about adult themes, sexual content, and the kinda stuff you probably don't want blasting through your speakers at work or around your kids. So grab some headphones, pour your drink of choice, and get comfy. Oh, and just so we're clear, we are not licensed therapists, counselors, or sex couches. Sex coaches. Sex coaches. Not sex couches. We're just a couple of people sharing our lives, experiences, and sexy adventures in ethical non-monogamy.

0:47 So with that, pull up a chair and enjoy the show. Hello, and welcome to another episode of Beyond Monogamy. I'm Adam. And I'm Pris. And today essentially what you're getting is something a little weird. Yes. Uh, so we were sitting here waiting for a guest- Mm-hmm … to show up, and that guest did not show up. Mm-mm. And while we were waiting, we were recording, and we had a very, very interesting conversation, and somehow it became a show. So sit back and you're gonna catch us in mid-conversation, but just go along for the ride.

1:29 Yeah. Enjoy. Enjoy. You could do, like, " Backstage with Adam and Pris." What? That sounds, that sounds horrible. I like how you were telling a story to a nonexistent audience. So our daughter, guys, she's 19, and I'm like, wait, I'm really here. Oh, oh, 'cause I was saying that on Monday we're gonna start working out again. Yeah, we are. And you're like… Yeah. And I was like, 'cause, you know, even at home- She's, she's like- … we didn't like to tell peop- we didn't even like to say that. Yeah. It's like, "We're looking a little chunky." She straight up says, she's like, "We're, we're looking-" We're looking "we're looking a little chunky." I'm like, "Excuse me. It goes my s- this goes to my self-confidence."

2:10 It's like the husky. Yeah. It's call me husky. I'm seven years old again and feeling bad about the pudge in my stomach. I'm feeling pudgetastic Pudgy. You know, I mean, we're just… It's that, um, my curly looks flat there. What makes a person hate someone so much that they join a hate group? Like me hating somebody? Or- Or like Nazis, you know? Or people who hate on the gays or trans people. What- What, what is it that's so bad about these groups of people and the choices that they choose to make for themselves that fills these people so much with hate and anger that they have to join groups to vocalize that hate and anger?

3:02 Now I mean, I personally think that more than half, if not 75% of these people are closeted homosexuals, uh, who are maybe dealing with confusing feelings- Mm-hmm, mm-hmm … and they don't know how to just come out and say, "Look, you know, I, I once had a thought about sucking a guy's dick, and now that I don't know how I feel about that." So, so instead of vocalizing that, they have to fucking go over here and go, "I'm not gay, and you shouldn't be either, and fuck you," and- And you're gonna go to hell. Yeah. And- Yeah … yeah. I don't know. It's- I don't know. I don't get it. I don't know. I don't understand, like, what, what is the, this- Now I- … what this person's doing in their sex life, I don't understand how that affects other people that vocal- Why it makes them- And they, they hate… These people hate on us, too.

3:48 Yes. As swingers. Yes. It's like, ugh- Yeah … you know, you guys are, are an abomination because you- Yeah … you know, you're, you're not l- adhering to family values, good family values, and you have sex with other people. And it's like, well, how the fuck does that affect you? Well, I remember, I remember when we were, we were first starting, and I had that inner moral thing just tell me, "Oh my God, what I'm doing" Yeah, what was that? You know, we never really- I don't know … deciphered that. I think, I think that I wanted to… I think I wanted to stop swinging for a moment. Really? I think that I- That was literally the day after we had fun with somebody. Yeah. Yeah. I felt like maybe I didn't like it.

4:31 It was weird because I saw this person that had so much regret and guilt, and I remember thinking, "This isn't the woman I was dating. Like, who the fuck is this?" Yeah. Like, I- Yeah … I was into you 'cause you were kind of the bad girl, and then all of a sudden you're like, "This is wrong, and how can we be doing that?" I was like, "What's going on here?" Yeah. Yeah. It was because of that. Wow. Yeah. What a trip. Oh, man. I mean, I got over it. Yeah. Yeah. Fast. Very quickly. Oh, yeah. Very quickly. Yeah. Now, have you had more than one- No … time? Was that the only time that you ever had? That was the only time. Really? Yeah. Really? Yeah. There's never been any other times where you've sat back and gone, "Hmm, maybe we shouldn't."

5:12 No. " Maybe we shouldn't." Yeah. No. Hmm. I, I-- We're so open. I mean, yes. Yeah? Yes. Really? Um, I feel like the person that we last dated together, and who was our friend- Yeah … in Corpus- Yeah, yeah … um, I felt like that, that was forced. Forced on you or forced on her? Forced on e- forced on- You, you were thinking dick and not thinking anything else Yeah. Well, I mean, I was new and I- Yeah … I didn't know what to do. And you had an opportunity to, to be with two hot women. Yeah. Um, not saying that you're not hot enough. I'm just saying to your, to your standards, right?

5:52 Mm-hmm. And I don't think you thought it through, and I just wanted to make you happy Well, I would've been down to have both of you physically and romantically. Yeah. But she was vanilla. That was … She was vanilla, and that- And so she wasn't aware. And- And we were new- Uh, yeah, and I think- … to the whole life- And I think that's- that lifestyle … those were two horrible, horrible situations that should have never, ever- Oh, yeah … happened. No, I can, I can agree with that. Yeah. Yeah. That was definitely a mistake that was made. Yeah. Um- Um, just that. Just that. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, we didn't know what we were doing. Realistically, we didn't know what we were doing.

6:33 No, at all. And, you know, I can say all day long that I didn't know what we were doing, but at the same time- But did you know that- … I didn't know what was ethical and unethical. And I think that situation and how it was all being treated- Uh-huh … was maybe not as ethical as it could've been. Like, there should've been full enthusiasm- I knew it wasn't ethical. Well, why didn't you speak up? Because I always thought that it was gonna be, like, jealous wife. Well, yeah, that's the way you always made it seem. Yeah. That's the way it always came out. Yeah. But that one in particular- Yeah … yeah. Well, and you know, I realized she was very confused. She's a very confused person. She had a lot of- Yeah … of emotional things happening in her life and, you know, her whole ex- And look, this is where you and I- … and physical thing and- This is where you and I differ.

7:19 I did not- want to help her in any way But you, so there were times where you expressed and help without me- But I wanted to- throwing it out there … well, well, yeah. I wouldn't have minded helping her as a friend, but the helping You wanted it to intertwine into an live-in girlfriend I didn't want her to live with us Yeah But I- But when she had to I was… Well, yeah, no. That- That- I didn't want her to- Yeah … I didn't want her or her kids- Yeah living with us. Yeah. Like that w- Yeah … I don't like people infringing on our home life. Mm-hmm. And so it would be, no matter how close we are to somebody, it would be real difficult for us to live with anybody.

8:01 Yeah. ' Cause I just, it's a fear of mine. I don't, I don't know how I would assimilate to somebody else being a certain way. I can't control it. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Just I don't think we could live with anybody. Sure. And I wouldn't, I didn't want her, I definitely didn't want her and her kid there. Uh- I thought you did … but no. I was thinking more s- so this is where I know it was still such a new thing for me. Mm-hmm. Because I is- was looking at it like, "Oh, this is gonna be a great polyamorous relationship. I'm gonna have my wife, I'm gonna have my girlfriend, and they're gonna be involved together, and this is gonna be a great thing." Mm-hmm. But really, what I wanted out of that was less relationship and more sexual relationship.

8:42 Less romantic and more sexual. Yeah. And it became more we're doing for her, we're doing for her, and not getting anything sexual out of it. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. And so, yeah, no, I was not, I did not seek that one out properly. Mm. That was not a good one. Yeah. And then I am, I kind of think it's- You know, looking back on it, yeah, and you're probably gonna love this big win, but I shouldn't be fucking around with anybody who's not familiar with this lifestyle. Lifestyle. Yeah. Uh, and how consent is supposed to be and how, you know, there's just a, a lot of people who are vanilla, they jump into shit. Mm-hmm. And they think, "Okay, yeah, sure.

9:24 I'll give it a sh- I'm single now … I'll give it a try." I, I'm single now. I, I could do this. Yeah. Let me do this. Let me give it a try. I'll give it a try. Mm-hmm. And it's like, well, maybe you should think on it. Don't just jump into it. Mm-hmm. Because it looks great from the outside, but going into it, it's just not. Yeah. It's been, ugh. And so yeah, that was not a good situation. And, and looking back now, pretty much everybody that we were talking to, um, were all vanilla trying to open up relationships. When, yeah, and so I think that that's part of what I was telling you is like, I don't think we did poly right when we were poly. No, no. We didn't do it the right way. No.

10:04 And it was, I felt, for lack of resources, I didn't feel like I, I could get a good understanding of what we should've been doing. Mm-hmm. And of course, everything is different for everybody. But yeah, I don't, I don't feel like we did poly the right way. And especially now that we've done all these shows. Yeah. We've talked to so many people, and we've realized what the ethical and proper way of doing these things are, and then you sit back and you go, "Oh man, we fucked up so many times- Mm-hmm early on." A- a- about halfway through, we had fucked up so many times that we thought that this was just the way. Yeah. And, every single interaction that I had, even with the girlfriends that I had, they were, they weren't the best of situations.

10:52 Yeah. You know, And I felt e- even when we stopped being poly- You know, I would be so down What? To try this again. To try poly again? Yeah. Hmm. You know, I would be, I'd be down to try it too with- I mean, I would like, I would like to date I would like to find a couple So here's the thing. When we first… This is what I realized. When we first went into poly- Mm-hmm … um, we thought that this is poly. We, you have this, this… It's almost like the poster of the American dream. This is what poly looks like. Yeah. If you're a couple, if you're a, a guy or if you're a girl, this is what poly looks like. This is what successful poly looks like. Yes. And even when we stopped being poly, I didn't realize this until maybe a year after we stopped being poly.

11:37 Mm-hmm. Was that successful in poly is completely up to you. It doesn't mean that you have to be with somebody. We could have decided not to date anybody for five years and just said we're poly in theory. And still we would've been successfully poly. Yeah. I felt like if I was not actively seeking out and finding a romantic relationship, I was not poly. Mm-hmm. I felt like if I didn't have a relationship going on, I was not successfully poly, and that's so stupid. But- Yeah. Now … now I know that. Mm-hmm. But I didn't know that then. Mm-hmm. Like, even when we stopped, like, I didn't realize that.

12:18 Mm-hmm. It's like, what is successful poly? I felt like I was not good at it. Mm-hmm. Um, and it seemed like- Same … easier to find vanillas to consider it- Mm-hmm … than it did finding people in the polyamorous community because the people that we found in the polyamorous community- Were so stuck up they n- well, they were stuck up or they were trashy. Yeah. There was no in between. There was no in between. We couldn't find ourselves there. No. They were either really hoity-toity and stuck-up, and it's like- Mm-hmm … "Oh, well you can meet me at my yoga class maybe, and we'll meet for martinis." And it's like, mm. Or the opposite, which is dread and blue hair and, you know, just very homely looking and they wanna play D&D and, like, there was- Not our types … there was not our types.

13:01 And because I felt like we had to do this, I had to have this relationship, I had to jump into it, it's, it's like I didn't give time to anything. We didn't give time to anything. You know, I would do it, but it would, I would have stipulations. Like what? Um, Latino. Has to be a Lat- Latina couple. For you or for us? Yeah. If it's a Latino. Well, so now before you even get into that, what's the dynamic if you were to, if you were to do this again? If, if it was a couple, the, I'd like the couple to be open. Ah. And not clingy. Ah, yeah. Like, like us. Like, you have a family, we have a family, like- Can't do the clingy thing. Yeah … we could do, you know, weekends every now and then. Yeah.

13:41 We can have fun. Right. Come over. But, um, no drinking. Mm-hmm. 420 is fine. Yeah. Um, but no alcohol. Mm-hmm. If you wanna drink like a White Claw or something, that's cool. Yeah. But no hard liquor at all. Yeah. And no more than like a six-pack, like period. Mm-hmm. You know? Yeah. Yeah. And maybe our age Well, and- Or even a little bit older Well, you know, a- age is- I mean, I'm 48 Age- I don't really care Age doesn't really make a difference in the f- Yeah … it, it's more or less when it… You're talking about a relationship with somebody. Yeah. It's less age, and it's more or less, can I relate to this person?

14:22 That's what I'm saying. Which a lot of times age can dictate. It, it can But not always. True. Yeah. Because we've met people our age and we're like, "What the fuck? You're still doing whatever you're doing." Yeah, yeah. Um, and they can't do any other drugs but weed. Mm-hmm. And maybe some shrooms. I would, I would prefer not- You know? Like, I, like- Not heavy stuff … 420 o- Yeah, yeah … it has to be, like, the main thing. Right. I don't wanna have to worry about- Yeah … somebody we're dating- Exactly … having some sort of cardiac arrest- Yeah because of drugs. And, exactly. If it's a couple, I wanna make sure that they're solid. Yeah. You know? Like, don't be trying to fix this. Has he ever cheated on you? Has she ever cheated on you? How long ago? You know, what you're describing- Like, there's a whole- … it kinda reminds me of whenever you get a government job. I mean- And it's, like, a book application. Hey- And they gotta talk to your neighbors, they gotta talk to- Yeah … your old friends, your teachers.

15:06 Yeah. Like, they have to interview and do all sorts of back- background vetting. Yeah, and it's gonna be a lot of fun time play- Yeah … before we even try to accept that pers- those people into our lives as- Well, you know, you've seen just as friends- Mm-hmm that we can be close to people for months. And then they can disappear. And they can disappear. Yeah. And, and things can change very quickly. Yeah. So- But have you noticed- Hmm … the people that were in our lives like that, some of them were alcoholics. Yes. Some of them were too young to even comprehend. Yeah, yeah.

15:46 Um, and then- Those are it. You know? Uh, you know, I, I, I just think that- It's… We are two different people. Like- Because of w- who we are, like how we operate, because we're not, we're not alcoholics, so obviously there's a lot of people who like to go out drinking. Mm-hmm. And when they wanna go out drinking, they don't wanna go out with a couple that's not gonna join them drinking. I know, I knew a lot of people that when I stopped drinking, they were like, "Ugh, yeah, well, I don't, I mean, I don't think you wanna come out with us 'cause y- you know- Yeah … we're, we're going drinking." It's like- Yeah … "Okay. Yeah, that's fair." And it's like- … I mean, you can still invite. Yeah. You know? That's true. But, you know, it's, it, there are things, there are other things to do besides just go out drinking.

16:27 And if you wanna go have a drink, that's cool, but there's other places that you can go where you can have a drink. It doesn't have to be a bar, you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Like, there's, there's other ways. But even at the bar, we've gone and met people at bars. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Like, we don't care. Yeah. We're gonna drink our water and we're gonna- Don't care at all. We're there for the conversation- We're there, yeah … we're there to hang out. Like, we're- But there's people- … we're freaking flown … but these people that drink a lot- Yeah they're like, "Well, I don't wanna drink by myself." Oh, so you're looking for a companion to be an- Yeah … alcoholic with. Yeah. That's different. Yeah. That's different. So that's not, that's not for us. No. I would also… So that's one of my stipulations, like no, no hard drugs and no, infidelity. Yeah. No abusiveness.

17:08 Like, I'll do a fucking background check. Yeah. You know? Well, you gotta, you gotta trust. That's n- that's me. Like, I'm doing- You gotta trust … your fricking background check. I have all my little sleuths figuring you out, who you are. So come clean. That's the kinda couple I would like, but that's the kinda person I want, period, in our lives, if it was a single person or not. Yeah. You know? Like, I, that's what I want. And no vanillas. No. You know, I definitely have- No vanillas … changed a lot of my views since we stopped being poly, and also since we started the podcast. Mm-hmm. And so I'm definitely not the same person that I was when we started. And, you know, you were always a- afraid of me getting as super attached to people.

17:51 Yeah. I don't think I'm that person anymore. Um, I'm, I'm a little exhausted. And openness. You know, like- I'm very open now. Yeah I used to not be as transparent. Yeah. Um- Like, that's what I want. Like, I want openness and- Yeah. Obviously … and communication has to be between all of us. Um- All of us, yeah … period. That … I mean, I would be down for that. That'd be interesting. Yeah. That'd be interesting. I won't be seeking it out, or maybe I will be. Well, so, and that's the thing. This is, this is the hard part for you. Uh-huh. Because I don't, I don't have this problem. And, and I c- and I honestly wish that I could explain as to why. I don't know why. But I have less of a problem, I guess connecting with others than you do.

18:35 And it's not anything that you do. I don't understand it, honestly. Um- Um, but I have to meet them. Well, yeah. I guess I understand that. That's the thing. Yeah. When you … Like, I wanna meet them. But I am trusting because our besties- Yeah if our besties were here Yeah, they'd probably be the couple They'd be the couple Yeah Because I trust them Yeah You know? Which is funny because- There's a lot- … you didn't really know them in the- I don't … in the beginning. Yeah, no But you kind of just took them very quickly And, and, um I know them Yeah And they don't even meet my rules What do you mean? My stipulations that I just put up They don't meet your stipulations? No How's that?

19:16 They just don't. There's some of my stipulations that they don't meet Uh-huh You know? And it's like, hmm. Hmm Hmm But It would still be an iffy because they're so new Well, so I've realized that You shouldn't Date best friends? Well, no, I wasn't… Actually, I think it's, it's best to date best friends because then you like them on a different level. Mm-hmm. You know? There's more than just romantic shit. Mm-hmm. There's more than just sexual shit. You actually like being around that person. Mm-hmm. Which if you're gonna share any kind of relationship with, that's kind of important.

19:57 Mm-hmm. So no, I think it's great to, to be with friends. Mm-hmm. Um, I think that it's difficult to find a proper connection amongst four people, and we've talked about this before. Yeah, you know, and we've said, "Well, it's not that difficult." Well, as far as sexually, it's not that difficult- Mm-hmm … for us to connect with another couple. Mm-hmm. We can easily do that all day long. Mm-hmm. But if you're talking about a relationship- Mm-hmm … that's a completely different subject. Yeah. Because- That's why they have to be like-minded like that. Yeah. Yeah. Like I'm saying, okay, it can't be, it can't be- there's gotta be a lot of self-realization … yes, like it can't be a swinger. You've gotta… No, no, no. It's gotta be somebody- It has to be somebody- … who's very secure- Yeah … in themselves.

20:39 Yeah. Secure in their mind, secure in their body, able to exude that confidence. Don't be clingy. Understand that we are our separate entity- Yeah … and we do have friends, and we do go out, and we do a lot of things. Yeah. You know, we've had people that tried to take ownership of us, and the moment- Yeah … that we don't spend every weekend with them, they get upset. Yeah. You know? And they go huffing off. Yeah. Well, we, we can't have that. You know, if you're talking- We like our, we like our time. We like our time. Yeah. So if we go on a vacation with other couples, yeah, we're gonna spend time with you, but we're not gonna spend the entire time with you because we're- No entitlement … we're looking to spend time- Yeah with each other. Yeah. Yeah. You are the only person that I really am ever gonna give that real title to.

21:24 Mm-hmm. And that's well earned, you know? And, I just don't feel like anybody can just step in and just hand those out willy-nilly. Now, people poly differently, and the whole hierarchy thing, you know, the primary, the secondary, and all that shit. Like, the way we would do it would be like this is our primary, this is our- Mm-hmm … our number one priority. Mm-hmm. And then our relationship with whomever else, that's basically a secondary relationship. Mm-hmm. It's important, but it'll never trump what we have. Mm-hmm. There are people that are poly that are like, "No, we're not gonna do that." Yeah.

22:04 Yeah. Our relationship with, with you- Yeah … should be just as important- No … as your primary relationship, and I don't- So it really has to be somebody- … feel good about that. Yeah, it h- really has to be somebody who understands that. And, and, and is good with it being on our terms. And there's no convincing. Like, no. There's no convincing otherwise. No. Like- We don't have to do it … we have already agreed that we are going to love each other till the day we die. Yeah. And we're gonna be together- Till the day we die Yeah. That's true That's our little path there But, you know, my only concern i- doing it, yeah, I mean, it's easy to say, "Okay, yeah, we can totally do this again." Mm-hmm. But it comes down to trust, and I'm not talking about you trusting me, I'm talking about you trusting others outside of me.

22:49 Yeah. You aren't that person. You don't trust people. No. And it takes a lot for you to trust people. That's why I'm saying, like, it would have to be somebody… Like, this would be a long thing. What do you mean? Like, it would be a long- So it would take a long time before we actually say, "Okay, yeah, we're actually dating these people"? Yes. It would be a lot of… And I'm not saying years. It would just, we would have to grow that relationship. We would have to get to know them. You know what's funny is I realized something about you, though. Tell me. When you fall, you fall hard and fast. For couples? Yeah. There's only been one. Well, even the girl that we dated. You kind of- Yeah … went in hard and fast on that one.

23:30 Yeah. And- Well, that one was on purpose Really? Oh, yeah. What do you mean? That was on pur- like, I pushed myself to do that. Oh, so that you could kind of figure out- Yeah … I didn't know that. Yeah, I pushed myself to do that. Huh, okay. Yeah. That is where a lot of your changes started. Yeah, and I was testing the waters. Yeah. Um- Kinda letting your, your hair down a little bit. Yeah. And that was a really good person to have that happen with. To be able to- Yes … to do that with? Yeah. Yeah. That's cool. And I always have to remember that. Yeah. You do, but you know what? It's, it is funny, 'cause you do, you do fall pretty fast. And they're my- And pretty hard … and actually both of those ladies are my besties. Yeah, yeah. You- They're my girl besties … you, you get very close to them, yeah.

24:12 Yeah. And, like- Yeah. If we could be a throuple, I would be a throuple with them. Yeah? Yeah. That's funny. Yeah. Hey. Yeah. And what's funny is back when we were poly, I was good with you dating other women, and even the thought of dating other men. I wasn't that good with you… the thought of you dating couples. No, you weren't. I don't know why. Yeah. It seemed like a threat to me. Hmm. I could see. But I don't feel that anymore. I could see that. Yeah. I don't feel that anymore. Yeah. The first time that you actually had some alone time with a couple, it was a little weird for me because- It was weird for me well bec- I was so used, I'm so used to you, like, leaning on me, relying on me- Yeah … being there all the time- Yeah … you know?

24:58 And so for you to have this experience with another couple- I see … and I was not involved at all- Mm-hmm … um, there was no control for me there, and so if there's no control for me, I was completely checked out. Mm-hmm. And it's like, "Oh, okay. I don't care. Good for you." Mm-hmm. "That's cool." Yeah, you were. Um, But it was a good experiment for me to see, like, "Oh, how is this gonna work out?" And I'm totally cool with you, dating a couple. I would like to be cool with the couple, you know? Yeah. Um, I don't wanna be checked out like I was on the last one. Mm-hmm. But yeah, I'd like to be cool with them and that sort of thing. It's like, if you're gonna be banging and dating my wife, I'd like to at least like you and know you.

25:43 Mm-hmm. You know? Maybe have you pay a bill. I had a feeling that you would eventually walk your way back to, to trying out poly again. Mm-hmm. Just because there's… it… I c- I can see it in you- Like, and at the m- … that you're open to new experiences. Yeah, and the moment I feel, threatened- Yeah Let's be honest because that's the feeling. Mm. Right? The moment I feel threatened is the moment I'll end it. Yeah? I won't push that aside. You, you won't just communicate it and see about talking about it? Um- Because if there's a threat there- Of course … you gotta kinda- No, no, no, of course … sit back and figure it out. Of course. Yeah. I'd be like, "Hey, I'm feeling threatened." Yeah.

26:25 "And why am I feeling that way?" And in that situ- So that's the thing is if you're gonna jump into a relationship with somebody- Yeah and then the moment you get a very real feeling like that, you go, "Okay, peace. I'm out," then you don't wanna really jump into a relationship with somebody because that's somebody who's getting emotionally involved with you. Mm-hmm. And if you're dealing with your own thing and you don't communicate it with them and you don't try to work it out with them- That's true then, I mean, that's kind of unfair to them, you know? Yeah. 'Cause it's a- I mean, yeah … it's a real relationship. I would, I would. The moment I feel threatened- Yeah … I would definitely sit down and be like, "Hey, I'm feeling a certain way, and this is why."

27:06 Yeah. And if we can't get through it You know Yeah. You know, I, uh, like I said, you're getting older and you're, you're being more open to different, I don't know, different experiences- Situations and experiences yeah. Yeah. Um- I'm really into no- You're not so hardened anymore. Yeah, but I'm also still no bullshit. Oh, yeah. But you've also kind of found your footing in this ethical non-monogamous planet that we live on. Yeah. And you've kind of, , I don't know, figured out where you stand there. Yeah. This is more under your control- Yeah than it was last time. Yeah. So when we did poly last time, A, you didn't know anything about it. Like, you didn't know what it was.

27:47 I- you were relying on me to explain all this stuff to you. Yes. And I was getting short-handed information myself. Mm-hmm. And I was getting a lot of bad information and what- Mm-hmm and I wasn't doing it right. Mm-hmm. So therefore, we weren't doing it right. Mm-hmm. Not to mention, I was doing early on in poly what we did early on as swingers, which was I'm jumping into every experience that I have. I wanna get into experiences, I wanna experience- Yeah … I wanna experience. And I wasn't properly vetting. Okay, wait. Before we go any further, FirmTech. We have to talk about FirmTech Yes. Okay, so FirmTech makes the Tech Ring. Yeah, and here's the thing. It's not what you might think.

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29:14 Yes. And I wasn't trying to find the right people, not to mention where we were at. Mm-hmm. Forget about it. It just seems very different now. And I think you were very pushy on me. Yeah. Yeah, you were very pushy on me to go find, go find, go find. Obviously. Yeah. Well, because it would feel better to me. Yeah. I would feel- Yes … more okay- And that made- … pursuing something- That made- … if you were pursuing something. Yeah, 'cause because I remember getting upset about it. Yeah. I'm like, "Why are you… Why?" And then when you told me that, I was like, "Okay. Well, that makes sense." Yeah. I get it. I mean, that's, I- it's an asshole thing to say, and- Yeah I, I liken the fact that I'm not like that anymore. Yeah. But absolutely, I, I did- Yeah … push that on you because I wanted to feel less guilt.

29:55 Yeah. You know, because you said it was okay, but if you're not actively seeking, then I just feel like a douchebag- Mm-hmm … looking to get these experiences. Mm-hmm. Well, now I'm at a point in my life where I'm like, "I don't care." Like, I don't, I don't care about experiences. I've had my experiences. Yeah. My poly, experiences were not that great, but I did- Yeah … enjoy the poly lifestyle. Mm-hmm. So that's the funny thing about it is I could actively be poly and not date- Mm-hmm … and just enjoy being around poly people- Mm-hmm … and being in the poly lifestyle. Mm-hmm. You know, and being surrounded by people like that and being able to have those conversations and shit, I think is, is fun.

30:39 But I don't wanna be actively seeking anything. I don't even like actively seeking sex on swinger sites. As a matter of fact, one of the best things that we could have ever done was gotten this podcast, because it's like shooting fish in a barrel now. Most of the time when we go to a place, people know who we are. I'm not saying, like, big-headed everybody knows who we are, but in a year and a half- We've, we've come a long way. Mm-hmm. And oftentimes we can go to a, a, a new place and there's at least one person there- Yeah … who knows who we are. Yeah. Uh, and it just becomes a little bit easier because they're like, "Oh, I listen to the podcast and I know what you guys like," and this and that, and it's like, okay, cool, I don't have to explain myself at all. This just got way easier.

31:19 Yeah. Also, I like the fact that we're learning so much from the people that we have on the show. It's, it's free therapy. Mm-hmm. There's so much that- Mm-hmm … that's there to be learned and, and we haven't even scratched the surface of it, you know? And I think I've grown. You have grown a lot. But you know what's funny is your growth is kind of like… It's kinda like tracking the stock market on an election year. And what I mean by that is there's lots of ups and downs. So- There is … yeah. So one day you can be like this, where you're like, "I'm ready to try poly again." And then tomorrow, something could happen and you could be like, "Yeah, I don't think so."

32:03 And it's like, you know, I just have to kind of gauge where you're at and how you're feeling, as to how poly or not poly I am for that day, I guess. Agree. Yeah. Uh, you know- Agree. I'm very hormonal. You are. And- I am … and I've, I've- And- … had to play the, the game- Yeah … as much as possible. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's not easy for, it's not easy for a woman who's going through hormones. I, I don't take that away from you at all. Yeah. And it's not easy for a woman who's menopausal. I, I- Thank you, because my boss doesn't think- Well- … it's a thing. Like … yeah, your boss… If I had the money to pay you like he does, then you wouldn't be with him. My God. I know. But you know, I, I know what you're going through.

32:46 I wish- Well, to an extent … that- I, I, I never had it, but I've done my research on it. I've read about it and I… From a husband standpoint, you don't even know what you're going through, so it's hard for me to understand what you're going through. Mm-hmm. And all I can do is really try to just understand that the hormones that you're dealing with- Yeah really have you up and down, up and down. They do. They do. And it makes it hard sometimes, to, to anything outside of monogamy. You know? I mean, it's, it's really kind of humorous when you think about it because- … it's, it's like, yeah, let me, let me go ahead and put on this suit made out of meat and walk into the lions' den, because that's essentially what I'm doing when I tell my, my, my wife who's going through menopause and who's very hormonal, "Hey, I, I think I'm gonna go and, and maybe seek out this extra relationship with somebody else," be it either romantic, mental, or sexual.

33:49 Even saying it here right now, after you dropped the bomb on me about considering being poly again, even, even having that conversation, I'm still, uncomfortable expressing any kind of want on that end. Because, A, I don't wanna hurt your feelings, B, I don't wanna, light the fire. No, that's what I'm saying. Yeah. It has to be a journey together. Yeah. No, no, no, absolutely. That's what, yeah. Like, it, it has to be, it has to be together. Like- So only poly together, not poly separate. Only poly together. So you wouldn't be dating another couple separately or- No … another person separately. No. Only together. Only together. Somebody- Somebody … either somebody or somebodies is dating this couple, us two- Yes … together 100% equal.

34:34 Yes. And the moment that you feel it's not equal, you're out. Oh, we're out. Well, yeah. No, you're- Yes. I, that's obvious. Yes. Yeah, we're out. I don't, I don't know. I don't think that's- I mean, I would talk it … I think that's gonna work. I would, I would talk about it, and why am I uncomfortable- Yeah, yeah … and whatever. Right, right. But the moment I feel it- Yeah … and I talk to y'all about it- Yeah … and if that feeling… 'Cause it festers in me. Like, I really have to, like, talk about it. Like- Yeah … it has to be discussed a lot. Sure. I don't know why, but you know how I am. That's fair. And I don't have anything else to distract me. Yes, I'm probably, we'll probably be out. That's interesting. But I understand myself and, if I don't like something just because I don't like something, if I don't like the color, if I don't like the smell, if I don't like- But see, that's the hard part, is we're not attracted to the same people.

35:25 But that's what I'm saying. We gotta figure this out if What? Thank you, unicorns. I, we're not attracted to the same people. Unicorn couples. We are ready. Um, we are, baby. I am just a hard-ass sometimes. Really? Yeah. I think, I think I don't give people the benefit of the doubts. Oh. I just figured you, you just, you don't like- Um, but I like Latinos. Like, I want Latinos … well, that's a tough one in and of itself. There's not a whole lot of, Hispanics in the polyamory community. Agreed. As a matter of fact, when we came out as polyamorous, that's when the whole Latinx thing or Latin- Mm-hmm … necki came out, and it was a big thing in the poly community.

36:05 Mm-hmm. And we tried to build a Latino poly community. Mm-hmm. And that just failed horribly. You know, I feel like there's more openness now, so. You think? I do. Um, and we're gonna figure it out. I don't know. I think there's more openness to the sexual portion of non-monogamy, but way less on the relationship-wise, especially for Hispanics. That's not something that you can openly have. In a Hispanic community, that's not something you can openly have. Mi gente- I'm sorry. I'm sorry … Latina. It's, it's very, very, very, very, very difficult. Your… It would have to be, they would have to be accepted by their family, otherwise it's gonna be a big secret, and you already said one of the stipulations is you cannot be a secret.

36:46 I am not a side hoe. I am not your side chick. I am not the, the one you hide away. I am a flower. I am meant to be shown. Yes, we got you. But this is what I'm saying- … is that if you're, it- Well, that's what I'm saying … these, these are your rules. It's like- These are my rules … okay, well, go ahead and, and, and go ahead and go swimming in the pool, but don't forget to put your, your- your shackles on. Baby. No, I'm just saying, like, why even say, "Ah, you know, I'd consider being poly." Get out of here with that, man. Because why You just, you just made an impossible scenario. An impossible scenario. What if I didn't, though?

37:27 You just made it an impossible scenario. It doesn't… Okay. It doesn't have to- They can only be Latinos, and- But it doesn't have to be a couple. It could be one single woman. Yeah, but you would feel inequality very quickly- You don't- … because, honestly, you get insecure about how people react to me. Yes. Especially women. Especially women that you're into. Yes. You get insecure about… You get almost competitive with me, which I never understood- Um when it comes to women that we're both interested in Y- y- normally there's not a competition because you will have the one up. You have a vagina, and most of these women are into that. Yeah. Uh, I'm the one that has to work harder because- I think your charm is over- overpowers people.

38:10 I, you know, I think- No if you just work harder. No. No. It's your charm. Well, you don't have to find that in a- No, it's your charm … in a negative way, though. I mean- I mean, geez … it is what it is. How, how bad is it that your husband's liked in a, in a three-way- It's not… That's what I'm saying … relationship? It was, we were at a different time. Yeah. Why were you so clingy? Yeah, that's fair. I mean, come on. That's fair. I felt like I had to compete because you were so clingy, and I thought I was losing that clinginess. Well, you know, my, my big thing- So … back then was we couldn't have group chats because you were not- Yeah … you weren't a participant of it. Yeah … and we have to know. Yeah, I know, but I'm saying, like, that- Yeah … is cool. I'm cool with that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

38:50 No, I mean- Like, I like group chats … I'm, I'm saying, like, back then you weren't- Yeah, no … participating. You're better at it now. Like, I am straight up, look, I wanna see the group chat. I wanna know what's going on, and if there's any side pictures or anything like that, the, the pictures and everything have to be a group chat. Like even though I'm- Yeah not very active in it, it has to be- Sure … full cover, 100%, none of this, "Oh, I'm just surprising Pris," or, "Oh, I'm just surprising Adam," or Adam's like, "Oh, I'm just surprising so…" None of them. 'Cause we end up showing each other anyways. Yeah. Like I don't want- It's kind of pointless … yeah, I don't want any of it. Am I in and out of the conversation? Probably. Maybe. But I'm busy.

39:30 Usually, yeah. You know? I mean, I want somebody who is ADHD and realizes it. Um- But see, and so in a relationship with somebody else, you… No, but listen, hear me out. What? Don't roll your eyes. You, we, you know, as a person, I'm not saying you you, I'm saying generally you. You want to, relate to them on different levels. We, as a couple, are not gonna relate to a person or other persons on different levels. You and I have different things that we like and dislike. Yes. So if I'm gonna talk to somebody and I relate to them on different levels that you cannot relate to them on, it's not a competition.

40:12 It's a, oh, they're developing something on their own and I should develop something on my own as well. Yeah. Now I understand that. Okay. 'Cause previously that it was always a competition. Still gonna be a group chat. Oh, obviously. I'm good with a group chat because there's days where- Yeah, no, I agree … I don't wanna frigging talk to anybody. So what you're looking for is a Hispanic female or couple- Yes … that- Is 100% open … 100% open- Uh-huh … that we can get to know over the span of 12 months. Does it have to be- To see… No, no, no. I mean, let's just- Okay … let's just put a time limit on it. Okay. Over the span of 12 months- It can be six … that we can get to know them- Yeah … to where you can develop trust in them and like them- Yes … and also have tried them out sexually because they gotta be good sexually as well.

41:01 Yes. And you gotta enjoy their personality. We gotta keep everything in the group chat. There can't be any sneaking around or, or just one-on-one side chats. Uh- Okay, you know what? I'm willing to not… It doesn't have to be, um, Latinos It can be anybody who I can relate to So that, that opens up the doors to a lot Yeah Uh, because, uh, a- and that's the thing, it's like, hey man, I, I know a lot of Latinos you do not relate to Yeah, I was gonna say Just because- Yeah y'all are born to the same race- Yeah … does not mean that- Yeah … that you can relate to them So I wouldn't get race. But definitely married, have kids, our age, been in the lifestyle for a while, been doing poly, is open to situations- Mm … um, is mature enough to understand situations and speak about them and understand them, as we are growing as well in that, We're learning what we like, we're learning what we don't like.

42:08 This is true. So we're kind of baby to it as well. This is true. Um, so yeah. I think we have a better stronghold on how to do this better. Yeah. I'm very hormonal. I'm- Yeah … you know, I'm in menopause. And we're, we're better about spending time apart, you and I. Yes. So it's not- Um- You're, you're not as clingy to me as you were before. No, but I also don't want you to be clingy to somebody else. Like if I'm miserable- I don't, I'm not clingy to anybody … and not clingy, I want you to feel miserable and not clingy as well. That's, that's the woman I married. You know, compersion goes the other direction. It doesn't go the darker direction. Baby, what- You're supposed to be happy for me babe … not supposed to keep me down and miserable.

42:50 Because I, I need lovies. And I love you- I need lots … up here. I need lots. You don't have to bring me down here to love you. I need lots of love. You need to come up here to me. Baby, I need lots of lovies. That's all I give you is love. Babe. We have this whole podcast. Babe. That's what love is. Yes or no? I wanna know what love is. What do you… What is to… What is that to you? You want extra lovies. What does that even mean? I don't want you to be with nobody else during that time. Darling, see- We are in hibernation together … you are putting rules on me. Those aren't boundaries. Those are rules- Okay, fine … that you're putting on me It's a rule then. That's not fair. I can't have a rule? That's not even Stevens. I can't have a rule? That's not even Steve- Well, I would do that for you. I don't want that for you. Give me a stipulation.

43:31 Think of something. I feel like you're pushing your stipulations on me, giving you a stipulation. I don't wanna do that. You don't wanna give me any at all? Why would I wanna th- why would I wanna hold you down from experiencing? Anything? I am, I am happy- Like- … for you getting whatever- Like straight up … whatever experience that you wanna have- Uh-huh … I fully support that, and I want that for you. I don't look at my- Any experience I don't, I don't look even- I wanna go to Dutch Bros every morning with this person. I'm fucking ha- I, if that's what you wanna do, if that's seriously what you wanna do, I fully support you, dude. Yes. Nothing at all. I, I know that this seems like a really weird notion. Like, how can anybody really love the person that they're with that much- Yes that they could do that?

44:14 But yeah, I'm, I'm actually that- That makes me sad … that… What does that make you sad? Because you're not like me? It makes me feel unloved. What? What? That you're going to Dutch Bros with a person every single day that's not me? Yes, and that you're not- Well, don't do it and that you're not stopping- That simple. Don't do it … and that you're not stopping me. You want me to stop you? I'm not here to hold- I'm not, I'm not a chain. I want, I want, I want you to show me that you love me and you want me to be there. So me being there for you and telling you how much I love you and that I support you is not showing you love? Yes. So I have to be not supportive of what you want in order to show you love? Yes. That's what you're telling me? Yes.

44:55 Do you realize how fucking crazy that is? Are you kidding me? You're telling me to do the exact opposite of what you've always told me. I, I'm supposed to support you. I support you in every single aspect of our life, everything that you wanna do, anything that you wanna do, but now you're telling me that I should show that I don't support you on doing something- so that I can prove my love to you. Yeah. No, girl, that is not how that works. That is completely dysfunctional. That is so dysfunctional, man. Come on. That's horrible. No, why can't you… Why does it have to be, "Can't you figure out what I mean?"

45:36 Why does it, why does it have to be that? Why can't you just- operate with everything out in the forefront and go, "No, I don't want that. I want, I want you to prevent me from doing these things"? Well, just don't do them. If you don't wanna do them, don't do them. See? Stop being depressed. Oh, well, that's different. Why? It's a feeling. Yeah, but you can't… That's a disease. Oh, my- Depression is a disease And, uh, and yeah It's not a disease. It is. Depression is a disease. You wouldn't ask an alcoholic to just stop being an alcoholic, would you? Yeah, I guess that's probably a bad- Well, it's a disease. Is it a disease?

46:16 It is a disease. Are you sure? Depression is a disease. It c- it can be hereditary. It is not a disease. It is a disease. Look it up. Well, anyway, yeah- Google that shit … fine. I mean, I'm pretty sure I need a lot of therapy. Depression is a disease. But I can't stop from being overprotective and jealous. Oh, honey, I'm not asking you to. What I'm- But yeah, 'cause you're questioning me … no. No, no, no, no, no, no You're like- No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Understand, I'm not questioning you. I support you. There's a difference. But you're saying- I support you. No, what I'm saying is, I don't wanna jump into a relationship with another person or another couple until you've got yourself on the right level. Because it's, if it's gonna be us in a relationship with somebody else- Yeah I can only operate at least 75% on behalf of both of us.

47:05 The other 25%, if not more, is you, and what you say- I mean, babe, you're, you can't just do- … and how you act, and how you respond. Like, that's very different, man. I can't carry the, a relationship with somebody else on behalf of us. It's not how that works, man. Like, we have to be in this together, and it has to be a complete connection with somebody else, or we don't jump into it. It would be. The fuck out of… It would be. What are you talking about, you idiot? We wouldn't do it any other way. Don't be silly, babe. I can't help it, man. You're, you're crazy, girl. Ugh. So as you can see, we have a lot of, a lot of things to figure out- as always. As always.

47:46 I mean, you tune into us because we're a real couple, and this is what we do. This is a real couple conversation. Honestly, uh, y- this wasn't even supposed to be recorded, so there you go. What were you talking about? Becoming poly. Yeah. You just came out of nowhere and was like, "You know, I could do that." I can. Oh my gosh. 18 months. 18 months with a podcast, now all of a sudden you're Miss Polly Pocket over here. No, man. No. Uh, you know, uh- Yes … this is why you people tune into our show, because it, we are a real couple. We're having real conversations, and honestly, this was a real conversation. We had to, we had to record it. Mm-hmm. And that's exactly what we did. With that, we're gonna go ahead and, wrap up here.

48:27 Don't forget that you can scope out everything Beyond Monogamy at beyond-monogamy.com, all of our episodes, our blogs, all that good stuff, including the 100% anonymous confessional. Don't forget that we're also on fullswapradio.com every Thursday at 2:00 PM and 7:00 PM Central. And Crazy Winter Nights, is happening in February 2027. Mm-hmm. The exact dates are gonna be on the Events tab on our website, as well as fullswapradio.com, and if you use the code BEOMONO, you get, you get a discount on- Yeah … on tickets. So that's really cool. Also, we're gonna have some events coming up, so be sure and scope that out on our Events tab on our website.

49:14 With that, we really appreciate you guys tuning into our show as always, and we will see you guys next week. Bye.