Polyamory Meets Swinging: Multiamory's Dedeker, Jase & Emily On Unicorn Hunters, Jealousy & Where ENM Communities Collide

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All right, y'all.

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Before we dive in, a quick heads up

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This show is raw, real, and
definitely not rated PG.

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We're talking about adult themes,
sexual content, and the kinda stuff you

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probably don't want blasting through your
speakers at work or around your kids.

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So grab some headphones, pour your
drink of choice, and get comfy.

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Oh, and just so we're clear,
we are not licensed therapists,

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counselors, or sex couches.

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Sex coaches.

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Sex coaches.

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Not sex couches.

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We're just a couple of people sharing
our lives, experiences, and sexy

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adventures in ethical non-monogamy.

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So with that, pull up a
chair and enjoy the show.

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Hello, and welcome to another
episode of Beyond Monogamy.

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I'm Adam.

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And I'm Pris.

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And today we have a guest episode that
honestly I wish existed about 10 years

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ago, because Pris and I did the poly thing
from about 2016 to 2021, and I'm gonna be

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straight with you, we were flying blind.

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We couldn't find good resources
to save our lives, and the poly

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Facebook groups, forget it.

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Don't even get me started.

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Oh, yeah.

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Don't.

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Yeah.

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Mm-mm.

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Mm-mm.

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You'd ask a genuine question, like
a real honest question because

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you're trying to figure something
out, and half the group would just

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come at you like you were an idiot.

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"Just Google it." Cool, man.

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Super helpful.

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Thank you.

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It was very discouraging.

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Like, we were just trying to learn,
and nobody was there to help us.

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That's it- Yeah … man.

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That's exactly why today's guests matter,
because this is what we needed back then

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and didn't have, although the show did
exist back then, we didn't realize it.

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Mm-hmm.

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Our guests today have been putting
out real, no judgment, actually useful

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content about non-monogamy for over a
decade, and I genuinely think if we had

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found them back in 2016, some of those
years would've looked a lot different

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But hey, better late than never, right?

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Before we get into it, though,
if you're new here, welcome.

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Hit subscribe wherever you're
listening so you never, ever miss an

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episode, 'cause you're gonna love us.

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And if you've been rocking with
us for a while, you know the deal.

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Leave us a review, share the
show with someone who needs it.

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It costs you nothing, and
it means the world to us.

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That's right.

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Okay.

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So with that, we're gonna go ahead
and bring them in from Multiamory

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Podcast, Dedeker, Jase, and Emily.

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Welcome to the show, y'all.

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Welcome, guys.

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Thank you.

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Thanks for having us.

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Thank you.

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I think that might be my favorite
way that we've ever been introduced.

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That was really

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fun.

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Really?

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I'm telling

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you,

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he is a

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hype man.

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You know- I try.

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I like to build everybody up, but
I didn't really have to try too

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hard because, uh, you guys, y'all,
y'all came with a reputation.

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Yeah.

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A good one.

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We should, we should get you
on our show to just record

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our intro every single time.

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There you go.

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There you go.

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And play it back before
every single episode.

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And it's funny because everybody
seems to like my voice, but

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my voice is of my nightmares.

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Like, I don't wanna,
I don't wanna hear it.

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Ooh.

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I'd rather hear y'all's voices.

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Isn't that the way it goes
with your own voice, though?

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Yeah.

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Yeah, for sure.

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I think so.

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I don't think anybody likes their own
voice, although she, she disagrees.

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I'm like, I like my

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voice.

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She says, she says that I
like to hear myself talk.

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That's great.

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He likes it.

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Yeah, no, he loves his voice.

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I don't think so.

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I don't think so.

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Anyways, I wanna start somewhere
that I think is a lot more fun

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than the usual intro stuff.

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Okay.

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So I was thinking if, if you three,
if y'all could find some sort of

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order to tell us how the three of
you actually came together, and

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how y'all came to this podcast,
how y'all ended up with Multiamory.

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Yeah.

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So back many, many moons ago, all
three of us were living in Los Angeles

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and did not know each other yet.

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But Jase and I… Well, actually
all three of us were in the arts.

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We all were actors,
performers, those types.

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I think generally you move to Los
Angeles to become one of those things.

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I-- And so Jase and I met actually
doing a musical together in 2010,

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and one thing led to another.

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It was a showmance, and then it was a
romance, and then we ended up living

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together for a couple years monogamously.

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Mm-hmm.

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I-- After some time, we realized,
okay, maybe we want to open up,

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kind of see what else is out there,
because I was very young at the time.

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You know, both of us.

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Jase, I think, had dabbled
in non-monogamy before.

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You at least had, like, heard
about it and were interested in it.

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Kind of.

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I had- Yeah … in college, I
had heard about The Ethical Slut

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because I saw it at a bookstore.

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Of

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course.

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Yeah.

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Like you do.

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Um, and but my, my sort of
recovering Christian brain

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couldn't handle it at the time.

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And so at that time, I was kind of
unpacking some of my hang-ups with,

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like, jealousy and possessiveness
and things like that, and I do think

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I made some good progress back then.

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But at the time, it was kind of more
of like a, "Oh, we can flirt with

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other people and maybe have a threesome
sometimes or, or group stuff or whatever."

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Mm-hmm.

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But that was many relationships ago.

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That was several years before meeting
Emily, and since then it had kind of been

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like, "Well, sure, that's a cool idea, but
no one can actually do that," so Oh, well.

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Here we are.

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All

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right.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Uh, but then we actually did.

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We started dating other people.

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I met somebody on OkCupid, uh, and then
that person's partner started dating Jase,

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and that person's partner was Dedeker.

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Uh, Dedeker had already been in her
non-monogamous journey for quite a while.

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Uh, she I think was- Like a
couple years at that point … a

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couple years ahead of us.

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Yes.

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She was a couple years ahead of us- Oh,
wow … which was great because then we

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had somebody who was a little bit more
in the know who actually, like, could

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tell us, okay, what are the good and
bad things about what it is that we're

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doing, I was gonna say that because you
were a couple years ahead of us in your

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non-monogamous journey, at times I felt
like, okay, we have somebody in the know.

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We have somebody who's, like, a little
bit more seasoned, more of a veteran at

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this who can help us out maybe a touch.

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Although, I don't know, I think
we did pretty well, like, in those

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early years when we were all kind
of like a quad, when it was me and

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Dedeker dating the same person.

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Both of us were in with Jase,
and then Dedeker and I were

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also together after a time.

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We, we kind of became this,
like, fearsome foursome, and

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it was going great for a while.

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I think there was some of that zen
beginner's mind where you don't

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know- Mm … what you don't know.

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Yeah.

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And maybe some beginner's
luck as well- Yeah

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in the way, in the times
when it was going well.

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But yeah, we learned
a lot of hard lessons.

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Like, we learned that quads tend
to be pretty unstable as it is.

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they said that you, you had two
years ahead of them, so- Mm-hmm.

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Yes … were you single in that journey
the two years before, or were you, um-

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Yeah

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…
already in a relationship?

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Uh, y- both.

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Yes.

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Both.

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Okay.

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Yes.

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Yeah.

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Like, I, like, I, my, you know, my, my
introduction to non-monogamy, like, I

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opened up a monogamous relationship,
uh, with someone that I'd been with

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for, like, about three years or so,
and it imploded within six months

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because we were in our early 20s.

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I was brand new to all of this.

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He was brand new to all of this.

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But for me, the important thing was
that, like, even after that relationship

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imploded, I still had this sense
of, like, I still wanna do this.

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Like, I didn't have that sense
of like, ooh, failed experiment,

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time to retreat back to monogamy.

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I really had this deep sense of this feels
really right for me, but now I need to

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figure out how to do it, how to actually
do it, how to do it correctly, right?

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Mm-hmm.

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So that sort of set me on
that particular journey.

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Um-

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Okay … and then, yeah, it was this sort
of funny thing that, like, my partner

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at the time met Emily on OkCupid, and
this was even before OkCupid was an app.

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This was still back when it was
dating sites instead of dating apps.

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Oh, wow.

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Uh, you know, my partner- Goodness

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met Emily, and I think it was Emily who
even suggested that, like, I might get

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along with her partner, Jase, and so
Jase and I connected, and so eventually

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the four of us, yeah, became, like, this
little quad and, um, thought that we were

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hot shit- … and thought that we had- Oh,

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yeah

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…
figured out- We felt

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like hot

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shit

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relationships.

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We felt like hot shit.

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And to be fair, in LA, it's like we'd
roll up to parties, and people would

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be, like, I think so impressed or
bowled over- I mean, I would- … or

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scandalized … you know?

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Yeah.

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And I think because we felt like we
were such hot shit, and because Jase

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was a big podcast fan, Jase was like,
"We should record a podcast," you know?

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And, and so, um- Yeah, the fourth member
of our quad, like my, my former partner,

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like didn't wanna get involved with the
podcast, so it was just the three of us.

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And around the time that we started
the podcast was when shit started

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to hit the fan and things started
to fall apart within the quad.

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Um- In a really big way.

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Yeah … in a big way.

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And, and yeah, like i- it's a bit of
a stereotype, but, but quads do tend

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to be unstable from what we've found.

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But sort of the miraculous thing was,
I mean, 'cause like I broke up with my

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partner and Jason and Emily broke up.

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But, but like the weird thing that
most people don't believe is that

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even through all of the drama, like
we ke- we kept recording the podcast.

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Yeah.

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Like we just kinda kept showing up each-
Yeah … time and, and that includes

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even times where it's like one of us
would be crying, but then like still

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show up and, and record the show.

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And-

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For a while we would usually
cry after recording the episode.

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Like we- Oh, some crying

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after

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also.

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Yeah.

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We'd have it together- Yeah
… during it, and then- I would

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cry fairly often during too.

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Mm-hmm.

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I mean, therapeutic, y'all kind
of had to… I mean, were y'all

242
00:09:22,887 --> 00:09:24,637
discussing your journey from-

243
00:09:25,327 --> 00:09:25,397
Well,

244
00:09:25,427 --> 00:09:25,867
no.

245
00:09:26,107 --> 00:09:29,167
And I think that's- I mean, I heard
some of them and I was like, I didn't…

246
00:09:29,207 --> 00:09:29,557
I think that's an important piece.

247
00:09:29,557 --> 00:09:30,877
Yeah, we're not using the podcast as

248
00:09:30,877 --> 00:09:31,527
therapy.

249
00:09:31,957 --> 00:09:31,967
Right.

250
00:09:31,987 --> 00:09:32,307
Okay.

251
00:09:33,007 --> 00:09:38,097
And that was something that from early on,
not really intentionally, but just what

252
00:09:38,127 --> 00:09:42,067
we gravitated toward, was doing a show
that was not about our own personal lives-

253
00:09:42,347 --> 00:09:42,687
Yes.

254
00:09:42,827 --> 00:09:45,407
Yeah … but was about sort
of the concepts more broadly.

255
00:09:45,967 --> 00:09:46,047
Right.

256
00:09:46,127 --> 00:09:48,927
And I think that's what saved us, right?

257
00:09:48,987 --> 00:09:51,347
I think if the show were about
our journey and we were trying to

258
00:09:51,387 --> 00:09:54,207
process that in real time, it…
that just would've been too hard.

259
00:09:54,267 --> 00:09:56,607
We would've said, "This
sucks. We're, we're done."

260
00:09:56,667 --> 00:09:56,847
Yeah.

261
00:09:56,987 --> 00:10:00,427
Uh, but I think because we were
talking about these concepts more

262
00:10:00,527 --> 00:10:05,187
generally, it actually was helpful
for us to kinda be talking about

263
00:10:05,227 --> 00:10:06,887
how do you deal with challenges?

264
00:10:06,967 --> 00:10:09,627
How do you communicate better?

265
00:10:09,727 --> 00:10:12,527
Uh, you know, and again, we're still
relatively newbies, even if we'd

266
00:10:12,567 --> 00:10:17,807
been doing it for, you know, one-
Yeah … to three years at that point.

267
00:10:18,527 --> 00:10:21,387
Like, we're still, relatively
speaking looking back, very newbie.

268
00:10:21,427 --> 00:10:21,707
Yeah.

269
00:10:21,997 --> 00:10:24,527
Uh- Mm-hmm … and a lot of our
friends were also in that within

270
00:10:24,567 --> 00:10:26,647
their first couple years range, right?

271
00:10:26,807 --> 00:10:30,226
And so that was sort of
where the podcast started.

272
00:10:30,387 --> 00:10:33,907
And then I think later is when we
moved to doing more, like bringing

273
00:10:33,927 --> 00:10:38,217
in research studies and trying
to make more of a, like actual

274
00:10:38,247 --> 00:10:40,567
evidence-based research backed show.

275
00:10:40,587 --> 00:10:43,887
But at the time, it was kinda
more based on just the community-

276
00:10:43,907 --> 00:10:46,877
Vibes … wisdom and the vibes
and what we'd learned ourselves.

277
00:10:46,907 --> 00:10:47,337
Mm-hmm.

278
00:10:47,337 --> 00:10:53,367
Now, would you say that maybe y'all
kind of healed through the podcast

279
00:10:54,387 --> 00:10:57,267
as you went along- I think- … and
you learned more about, what this is?

280
00:10:57,307 --> 00:10:57,427
Like

281
00:10:57,487 --> 00:11:01,567
even without discussing it in the podcast,
you know, just- Mm-hmm … listening

282
00:11:01,937 --> 00:11:04,086
Thinking about things- And
thinking, in a different- Yeah

283
00:11:04,086 --> 00:11:08,427
perspective minus the emotion
of what you're dealing with.

284
00:11:08,527 --> 00:11:11,427
Did that help heal you guys
at all, in that process?

285
00:11:12,527 --> 00:11:17,827
I think it was absolutely beneficial for
us to maintain, our friendship with one

286
00:11:17,867 --> 00:11:24,787
another for sure, and also allowed us to
have, kind of coping mechanisms to help us

287
00:11:24,827 --> 00:11:28,587
through the difficult challenges because
we were learning about a lot of things.

288
00:11:28,607 --> 00:11:32,946
We were, making decisions to
stick with the show and to make

289
00:11:32,986 --> 00:11:34,606
sure that that was a priority.

290
00:11:35,086 --> 00:11:38,746
And because of that, I think our
friendship and our commitment to one

291
00:11:38,786 --> 00:11:41,286
another also became a priority as well.

292
00:11:41,906 --> 00:11:45,525
And we sort of moved through
the, challenges of the breakup.

293
00:11:46,225 --> 00:11:50,485
Uh, Jase and Detiker were still together,
and they are still together now, but

294
00:11:50,545 --> 00:11:54,365
my breakup with the two of them and my
breakup with my other partner as well,

295
00:11:54,625 --> 00:11:59,645
and I think all of that just helped us
grow and helped us mature and helped

296
00:11:59,705 --> 00:12:04,625
us kind of move past it in a really
beautiful way, uh, to what we are now.

297
00:12:05,245 --> 00:12:05,525
Yeah.

298
00:12:05,925 --> 00:12:07,025
That's, that's amazing.

299
00:12:07,337 --> 00:12:10,547
Carrie Jenkins, who is a philosopher
and, and an author, we've had

300
00:12:10,557 --> 00:12:12,237
her on our show a couple times.

301
00:12:12,417 --> 00:12:15,637
She, in her most recent book, uh, she's
a philosopher, but she also, she's

302
00:12:15,677 --> 00:12:19,217
non-monogamous herself, and so she
sometimes writes about those themes.

303
00:12:19,817 --> 00:12:23,897
But she talks about this concept, she
calls it, like, eudaimonic love or

304
00:12:23,957 --> 00:12:29,627
eudaimonic purpose, um, in contrast
to hedonic love or hedonic purpose,

305
00:12:29,897 --> 00:12:31,997
which is, you know, which is kind
of based around what I think what we

306
00:12:32,057 --> 00:12:33,367
think of, like, romantic love, right?

307
00:12:33,377 --> 00:12:35,687
Where it's just kind of like- Mm-hmm
… you know, pleasurable and nice and

308
00:12:35,697 --> 00:12:37,077
warm and fuzzy and stuff like that.

309
00:12:37,117 --> 00:12:40,757
And she's talking about eudaimonic love
kind of being this love that centers

310
00:12:40,797 --> 00:12:43,257
around, like, a shared purpose, right?

311
00:12:43,437 --> 00:12:48,317
Mm. And so that can, can be something
like co-parenting with somebody, or

312
00:12:48,377 --> 00:12:52,957
it could be something like a creative
project that you share with somebody.

313
00:12:53,037 --> 00:12:57,387
And sometimes the way that I describe
the relationship now between the

314
00:12:57,427 --> 00:13:00,957
three of us is that we're, like,
this emotional triad co-parenting

315
00:13:01,027 --> 00:13:04,087
a podcast baby together, you know?

316
00:13:04,187 --> 00:13:09,907
Um, and, and yeah, I, I do 100% think
that… I mean, I've, I've seen this

317
00:13:09,947 --> 00:13:13,207
play out in my own personal relationships
constantly, that, like, when you get on

318
00:13:13,287 --> 00:13:16,256
every single week and, like, read about
the latest relationship research and

319
00:13:16,307 --> 00:13:20,927
about healthy communication practice,
like, it's not always easy to apply, but

320
00:13:20,987 --> 00:13:22,927
it, but those things do seep in, right?

321
00:13:23,007 --> 00:13:26,177
Like, I, I do think- Right … all of my
romantic relationships have directly- Yeah

322
00:13:26,177 --> 00:13:29,367
… benefited because it keeps it all top of
mind and it prompts those conversations

323
00:13:29,527 --> 00:13:31,267
after you're done recording, right?

324
00:13:31,307 --> 00:13:32,807
Of like- 100% … what
did you think about this?

325
00:13:33,027 --> 00:13:36,067
Or I think I see myself in
this particular pattern, right?

326
00:13:36,127 --> 00:13:40,307
It keeps that channel very open,
which is very, uh, nurturing for

327
00:13:40,327 --> 00:13:42,147
friendships and romantic partnership.

328
00:13:42,647 --> 00:13:44,207
That's, that's, that's very true.

329
00:13:44,458 --> 00:13:48,298
From where we started, we've been
in the lifestyle for 15 years.

330
00:13:48,768 --> 00:13:50,978
And I was in it actually before that.

331
00:13:51,008 --> 00:13:56,406
But our relationship is the longest we've
ever been in, like period, in our lives.

332
00:13:57,047 --> 00:14:02,007
And I remember kind of thinking,
"Oh, I don't know if I wanna do this.

333
00:14:02,107 --> 00:14:07,847
I don't know if I wanna, open
up the relationship." But as

334
00:14:07,887 --> 00:14:10,007
we did, I had my ups and downs.

335
00:14:10,387 --> 00:14:14,267
The podcast has definitely
helped me with the people that

336
00:14:14,347 --> 00:14:15,787
we get to talk to, you know?

337
00:14:15,927 --> 00:14:19,527
But our show is specifically
our relationship.

338
00:14:19,687 --> 00:14:20,207
Yeah.

339
00:14:21,307 --> 00:14:24,186
Um, people who listen to our show,
yeah, they'll, they'll listen to a

340
00:14:24,306 --> 00:14:29,383
guest on a Sunday show, talk about
ethical non-monogamy, polyamory,

341
00:14:29,483 --> 00:14:31,263
swinging, whatever the topic may be.

342
00:14:31,416 --> 00:14:37,616
But our Wednesday shows are strictly
just us, and it's our relationship.

343
00:14:37,676 --> 00:14:38,816
It's what we've been through.

344
00:14:38,856 --> 00:14:42,816
It's the, the- Yeah … jealousies
that we've experienced.

345
00:14:42,856 --> 00:14:44,416
It's the fights that we've had.

346
00:14:44,876 --> 00:14:50,349
Um, there's been moments of heated
passion on the show, where tears are

347
00:14:50,389 --> 00:14:54,114
being shed because- Mm … either
revelations have come about or- Mm

348
00:14:54,574 --> 00:14:57,724
you know, we're just rehashing
things that- Yeah … were

349
00:14:57,774 --> 00:14:59,674
kinda old wounds, you know?

350
00:14:59,816 --> 00:15:03,106
But it's a real couple
having real conversations.

351
00:15:03,136 --> 00:15:03,156
I

352
00:15:03,216 --> 00:15:06,136
mean, I, I used to say
I despise being poly.

353
00:15:06,196 --> 00:15:07,276
I'll never do it again.

354
00:15:07,816 --> 00:15:10,276
Like, I don't, I don't want…
I will never, I can't do that.

355
00:15:10,316 --> 00:15:10,996
I'm too jealous.

356
00:15:11,006 --> 00:15:11,256
And I'm like, "Bummer,

357
00:15:11,336 --> 00:15:11,556
bro."

358
00:15:11,776 --> 00:15:12,256
I'm too-

359
00:15:12,946 --> 00:15:14,776
I'm too territorial, you know?

360
00:15:15,036 --> 00:15:19,516
Um, and then just recently I was
like, I'm, I don't wanna put a label

361
00:15:19,596 --> 00:15:21,396
on it, but I am so up for that.

362
00:15:21,576 --> 00:15:27,387
I'm up for having my own little
journey, figuring it out.

363
00:15:28,117 --> 00:15:29,247
But you know, I'm still married.

364
00:15:29,347 --> 00:15:32,070
Which, and that's incredible
because She said I've always

365
00:15:32,090 --> 00:15:33,490
been six steps ahead of her.

366
00:15:33,690 --> 00:15:34,550
He is poly.

367
00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:36,420
Um, and- Like, I'm the
reason he's, like, nope.

368
00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:39,840
I, I've been like this since I was
in high school, and I just didn't

369
00:15:39,850 --> 00:15:41,490
know that there was a name for it.

370
00:15:41,550 --> 00:15:41,669
Yeah.

371
00:15:41,770 --> 00:15:45,080
Uh, so when I finally figured that
out, it was like, "Oh, really?"

372
00:15:45,110 --> 00:15:50,210
Like, I'm, I'm here now, you know,
um, but where we're really rooted

373
00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:52,620
is we, we got started in swinging.

374
00:15:52,630 --> 00:15:52,820
Mm-hmm.

375
00:15:53,100 --> 00:15:57,928
And it's, it's- To realize that
ethical non-monogamy is the umbrella

376
00:15:58,207 --> 00:16:04,588
for something as open sexually but
also open romantically and, and

377
00:16:04,727 --> 00:16:06,828
just all of this area in between.

378
00:16:08,288 --> 00:16:11,388
I realize that a lot of people
who are under that umbrella

379
00:16:11,767 --> 00:16:13,367
don't even know the right terms.

380
00:16:13,427 --> 00:16:18,327
Mm. And they don't even know exactly what
they are or what kind of label they wanna

381
00:16:18,407 --> 00:16:21,887
slap on themselves, and things get kinda
confusing and it gets a little weird.

382
00:16:22,387 --> 00:16:26,081
Uh, so it's always nice to talk
to, others like yourselves who

383
00:16:26,142 --> 00:16:28,521
can help clear these things up.

384
00:16:28,881 --> 00:16:29,021
Yeah.

385
00:16:29,181 --> 00:16:35,321
Um, and, and actually that kinda leads
me into our first question um, because

386
00:16:35,401 --> 00:16:38,661
I, I was real interested, you, you
guys are, are, are pretty poly-heavy

387
00:16:38,801 --> 00:16:41,321
and, and we're pretty swing-heavy.

388
00:16:41,741 --> 00:16:43,721
And the intersection of the two, I think,

389
00:16:43,822 --> 00:16:43,941
mm.

390
00:16:44,041 --> 00:16:44,901
It's very thick.

391
00:16:45,381 --> 00:16:47,881
Um, especially what we
see on this end over here.

392
00:16:48,822 --> 00:16:52,921
So poly and swinging, same umbrella,
really different vibes a lot of the time.

393
00:16:53,322 --> 00:16:56,583
Where do you see them actually
overlap, and where do you see

394
00:16:56,642 --> 00:16:58,002
them go their separate ways?

395
00:16:59,403 --> 00:17:01,263
Ooh, that's a great question.

396
00:17:01,282 --> 00:17:01,292
Boy.

397
00:17:01,353 --> 00:17:03,634
That's a great question, and
it's something that we definitely

398
00:17:03,693 --> 00:17:05,533
have talked about a fair amount.

399
00:17:05,673 --> 00:17:08,473
And any time, of course, we're
on a show that's more swinging

400
00:17:08,594 --> 00:17:11,713
focused or we have guests on our
show that are more focused on that.

401
00:17:12,833 --> 00:17:17,613
What's interesting for us to see
over the 12-ish years that we've been

402
00:17:17,654 --> 00:17:23,393
doing our show now is how the walls
between those two communities, I

403
00:17:23,453 --> 00:17:25,533
feel like have come down quite a bit.

404
00:17:26,293 --> 00:17:30,633
Where when we started off, it was very
much like we're a polyamory podcast

405
00:17:30,713 --> 00:17:34,413
and, you know, we, we know swingers and
we'll tolerate them, but like they're

406
00:17:34,453 --> 00:17:36,674
not as, you know, elevated as us.

407
00:17:37,055 --> 00:17:40,354
And then swingers on the other hand
are like, "Yeah, yeah, these dumb

408
00:17:40,434 --> 00:17:42,774
kids and their polyamory thing."
"Like they don't know how to have

409
00:17:42,814 --> 00:17:45,954
real relationships yet, so like they
can mess around like this for now."

410
00:17:45,994 --> 00:17:49,755
And you know, there was a little
bit of that divide that I feel like-

411
00:17:49,954 --> 00:17:52,395
Yeah … permeated both communities more.

412
00:17:52,534 --> 00:17:56,634
And I like to think our show has been
part of bringing that down a little bit,

413
00:17:56,754 --> 00:18:02,311
'cause I-- what I think I notice is that
on the polyamory side People often start

414
00:18:02,391 --> 00:18:07,911
from this place of this kind of utopic
vision of, you know, love is infinite.

415
00:18:08,071 --> 00:18:11,011
You know, we can have these deep
relationships with all sorts of people,

416
00:18:11,631 --> 00:18:15,771
and that whether they have sex or not,
and, you know, we're inclusive of people

417
00:18:15,831 --> 00:18:19,291
who are asexual or demisexual, all
these things, this is, this is great,

418
00:18:19,331 --> 00:18:20,971
and that's where we're starting from.

419
00:18:21,161 --> 00:18:27,241
And then over time, I feel like they
start to learn, wow, maybe some of these

420
00:18:27,511 --> 00:18:33,171
distinctions aren't such a big deal,
and, you know, maybe we can have more

421
00:18:33,231 --> 00:18:35,351
casual sexual relationships as well.

422
00:18:35,360 --> 00:18:39,031
Like, I feel like often poly people
start off not doing as much of that.

423
00:18:39,231 --> 00:18:39,281
Yeah.

424
00:18:39,281 --> 00:18:41,961
Uh, and more being focused on the,
the committed relationships, and

425
00:18:42,011 --> 00:18:45,591
then eventually realize, like, oh,
no, actually casual sex is also

426
00:18:45,671 --> 00:18:47,731
valuable and good, and that's great.

427
00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:51,201
And then I think on the swinging side,
what we see is people who start off very

428
00:18:51,271 --> 00:18:54,971
much like, we have our one relationship,
and then we put up various rules

429
00:18:55,011 --> 00:18:59,951
and guardrails to prevent the other
ones from, you know, infecting that

430
00:18:59,991 --> 00:19:01,291
or taking away from it or something.

431
00:19:01,351 --> 00:19:06,761
And then over time, they start to realize,
actually, yeah, like relationships

432
00:19:06,811 --> 00:19:10,811
are relationships, whether, you know,
whatever we call them or however they

433
00:19:10,871 --> 00:19:13,701
go, like we can't help but connect to
other people 'cause we're human beings.

434
00:19:14,091 --> 00:19:18,271
And so then as they get more experience,
they start to drop some of their

435
00:19:18,311 --> 00:19:21,431
guard about that, and that's where
I feel like the two start to meet

436
00:19:21,451 --> 00:19:22,651
a little bit more in the middle.

437
00:19:23,591 --> 00:19:24,911
Yeah, I mean, I- Yeah … I do agree.

438
00:19:25,011 --> 00:19:30,744
They did, um… it is better now,
than it was 12 years ago, you know.

439
00:19:30,764 --> 00:19:30,774
Mm-hmm.

440
00:19:30,864 --> 00:19:35,144
And I say recently, maybe about five
years ago, I started noticing that it

441
00:19:35,204 --> 00:19:39,704
was more in our community, a little
poly here, a little poly there.

442
00:19:40,124 --> 00:19:40,174
Mm-hmm.

443
00:19:40,294 --> 00:19:47,804
And so with that, um, it's kind of, it's
kind of opened my eyes, you know, kind

444
00:19:47,864 --> 00:19:52,054
of let my guard down a little bit because
I see these relationships and I see

445
00:19:52,134 --> 00:19:55,174
these people and I'm like, "Wow, okay."

446
00:19:55,194 --> 00:19:58,474
And he laughs because I was always
like, "Nope, we are not." She's the

447
00:19:58,534 --> 00:19:58,894
center.

448
00:19:58,994 --> 00:20:02,814
So between the two of us, I, I love
everybody and I get along with everybody.

449
00:20:02,954 --> 00:20:06,134
But I'm also trusting of
everybody, which, uh, obviously

450
00:20:06,143 --> 00:20:07,474
is a horrible, horrible thing.

451
00:20:07,894 --> 00:20:08,014
Mm.

452
00:20:08,134 --> 00:20:09,734
Uh, and she's my balance.

453
00:20:10,314 --> 00:20:12,914
Uh, and she doesn't trust anybody.

454
00:20:13,034 --> 00:20:14,294
She thinks everybody's-

455
00:20:14,403 --> 00:20:16,474
out to hurt us in some way or another.

456
00:20:17,074 --> 00:20:18,834
And, we definitely balance each other out.

457
00:20:18,894 --> 00:20:21,194
So when-- That's why I, I had
to laugh when she said she, she

458
00:20:21,274 --> 00:20:22,254
lets her guard down a little bit.

459
00:20:22,314 --> 00:20:23,334
No, she doesn't.

460
00:20:23,684 --> 00:20:23,764
Not at all.

461
00:20:24,034 --> 00:20:24,754
I'm, I'm trying.

462
00:20:24,804 --> 00:20:24,864
That doesn't happen.

463
00:20:24,874 --> 00:20:25,614
I am trying.

464
00:20:25,674 --> 00:20:29,715
I'm, I'm a little, I'm a very--
I'm, I'm a controlling person.

465
00:20:29,755 --> 00:20:31,815
It's, it's-- And I don't know.

466
00:20:31,875 --> 00:20:34,199
It's something that I'm controlling.

467
00:20:34,229 --> 00:20:36,689
I'm trying to be controlling on, on
everybody that I… It's in my family,

468
00:20:36,759 --> 00:20:38,039
like my kids and everything, you know?

469
00:20:38,499 --> 00:20:41,219
I try to not be, but it's- But she's

470
00:20:41,279 --> 00:20:42,199
come a long way.

471
00:20:42,679 --> 00:20:43,299
And, and you know- It's okay.

472
00:20:43,649 --> 00:20:45,259
I, as the res- Yeah … I
think as the most controlling

473
00:20:45,279 --> 00:20:46,539
of the three of us, I'm like,

474
00:20:46,659 --> 00:20:46,749
"
Yes."

475
00:20:46,749 --> 00:20:47,779
But all three of us are.

476
00:20:48,039 --> 00:20:48,319
Yes.

477
00:20:48,329 --> 00:20:48,339
Yes.

478
00:20:48,499 --> 00:20:48,679
Power.

479
00:20:48,689 --> 00:20:51,459
I, that's what I was about to say- Yes,
power to you … is that like all three of

480
00:20:51,499 --> 00:20:54,279
us are also sort of control freaks, too.

481
00:20:54,799 --> 00:20:54,899
Yeah.

482
00:20:54,929 --> 00:20:59,119
And I think the further you get in your
journey of non-monogamy, like whatever

483
00:20:59,219 --> 00:21:04,159
shape that takes, you realize that a
lot of this is about, like foregoing

484
00:21:04,179 --> 00:21:08,699
that control and getting rid of it and
allowing like other things to happen

485
00:21:08,799 --> 00:21:14,859
that you can't control, like feelings and
like getting to know somebody better and

486
00:21:14,999 --> 00:21:17,559
having them be a larger part of your life.

487
00:21:18,048 --> 00:21:22,459
And I can imagine, you know, I'm not 100%
sure because I'm not in the lifestyle,

488
00:21:22,599 --> 00:21:27,299
but- Mm … that people who come back to
each other over and over again within the

489
00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:31,599
swinging community, couples who come back
to each other over and over again, you

490
00:21:32,019 --> 00:21:36,299
have to create some sort of relationship
with them, and they may become more

491
00:21:36,319 --> 00:21:38,879
and more important to you over time.

492
00:21:38,959 --> 00:21:44,559
So, uh, I see with you, Pris, like,
you know, uh, just a cycle of maybe

493
00:21:44,619 --> 00:21:48,599
right now you're perhaps dabbling
in the thought of non-monogamy, and

494
00:21:48,659 --> 00:21:51,939
maybe at some point in your life you
will be interested in that again.

495
00:21:51,949 --> 00:21:51,959
Yeah.

496
00:21:51,979 --> 00:21:53,579
And it can ebb and flow over time.

497
00:21:53,639 --> 00:21:55,479
It doesn't have to be static, you know?

498
00:21:55,559 --> 00:21:56,138
Yeah.

499
00:21:56,299 --> 00:21:58,519
I, um, the swinging part, I've
always told them, I was like,

500
00:21:58,579 --> 00:22:00,519
"You know, the sex part is fine.

501
00:22:00,579 --> 00:22:02,719
It's doesn't, um, that doesn't bother me.

502
00:22:02,739 --> 00:22:04,099
It's the relationship part.

503
00:22:04,159 --> 00:22:05,399
It's the emotional part."

504
00:22:05,819 --> 00:22:08,999
Um- And for me, I can't- Yeah … have
sex with somebody- Mm-hmm … if I

505
00:22:09,039 --> 00:22:10,519
don't have a connection with them.

506
00:22:10,619 --> 00:22:11,509
And I get that now.

507
00:22:11,599 --> 00:22:13,199
And that, that was the tough part.

508
00:22:13,550 --> 00:22:15,890
So something I've been thinking
about a lot recently is something

509
00:22:15,910 --> 00:22:19,890
that Dan Savage said once upon a
time, and I'm gonna misquote him.

510
00:22:20,050 --> 00:22:23,490
I, I'll paraphrase it, that
something along the lines of how-

511
00:22:23,966 --> 00:22:29,146
There's an inherent chaotic, out of
control nature to sex and romance.

512
00:22:29,786 --> 00:22:33,366
And through all of human history,
we've been trying to account for that.

513
00:22:33,406 --> 00:22:36,406
Like, we've been trying to
control this thing that's really

514
00:22:36,446 --> 00:22:37,486
difficult for us to control.

515
00:22:37,796 --> 00:22:37,806
Mm-hmm.

516
00:22:37,806 --> 00:22:42,246
And that's shown up in all kinds
of different ways, whether that's

517
00:22:42,486 --> 00:22:43,906
monogamy in general, right?

518
00:22:43,986 --> 00:22:46,916
Like deciding we need to dictate
that society's gonna function

519
00:22:46,926 --> 00:22:49,576
on this monogamous basis because
otherwise things are just gonna

520
00:22:49,586 --> 00:22:51,165
get completely out of control.

521
00:22:51,286 --> 00:22:54,606
Or it's what shows up in-- Honestly,
I think it still shows up in

522
00:22:54,646 --> 00:22:56,185
flavors of non-monogamy, right?

523
00:22:56,255 --> 00:22:56,265
Yeah.

524
00:22:56,266 --> 00:22:59,726
That it's like, you know, the swinging,
like, lifestyle, you can have all kinds of

525
00:22:59,766 --> 00:23:03,786
agreements or rules or boundaries around
who you can play with or who you can't.

526
00:23:03,806 --> 00:23:06,406
But also polyamorous
people do it, too, right?

527
00:23:06,416 --> 00:23:06,426
Yeah.

528
00:23:06,586 --> 00:23:09,306
Around, like, this is what's
acceptable and this is what's not.

529
00:23:09,386 --> 00:23:11,576
And, and so it's like our
attempts to control that, they're

530
00:23:11,586 --> 00:23:13,246
not necessarily bad, right?

531
00:23:13,326 --> 00:23:16,986
Because I, I, I don't think
that we're necessarily served by

532
00:23:17,346 --> 00:23:21,056
deciding, like, whatever, all holds,
you know, no holds barred, just,

533
00:23:21,106 --> 00:23:22,286
like, do whatever you want, right?

534
00:23:22,486 --> 00:23:25,766
Um, but I do think that being
non-monogamous in general, again,

535
00:23:25,806 --> 00:23:29,616
whatever flavor you decide to
practice, it does force us to confront

536
00:23:29,666 --> 00:23:32,696
uncertainty and what happens when
things are outside of our control.

537
00:23:33,416 --> 00:23:36,566
And I think that's- Mm.
Yeah … really, really interesting.

538
00:23:36,966 --> 00:23:40,676
The, the hard part from the s- the
swinger end of it is that, and, and

539
00:23:40,726 --> 00:23:45,396
we see this often in our inbox, is
that people who are swingers are

540
00:23:45,506 --> 00:23:50,146
often-- their biggest fear is, "God,
my, my partner might catch feelings."

541
00:23:50,196 --> 00:23:51,666
Mm. Mm. Like, that's the biggest fear.

542
00:23:51,706 --> 00:23:56,786
And from a poly standpoint, there's not a
whole lot of, uh, polyamorous people who

543
00:23:56,846 --> 00:24:01,746
are worried that their partner wants to go
have sex with, with other people, 'cause-

544
00:24:01,806 --> 00:24:01,886
Mm

545
00:24:01,926 --> 00:24:04,296
…
it's, uh, I mean, depending
on what their dynamic is,

546
00:24:04,346 --> 00:24:06,726
that's probably okay, you know?

547
00:24:06,906 --> 00:24:11,566
Uh, so it's one of those things
where I kinda wonder on that end,

548
00:24:11,726 --> 00:24:16,709
do you guys have people that hit
you up, with the flip side of that?

549
00:24:17,284 --> 00:24:20,385
Mostly what that makes me think of is
what I've noticed is that sometimes

550
00:24:20,564 --> 00:24:25,004
people will get a little spooked or a
little freaked out if they feel like their

551
00:24:25,104 --> 00:24:29,205
partner has a different relationship to
dating and sex than they do themselves.

552
00:24:29,844 --> 00:24:30,104
Yeah.

553
00:24:30,184 --> 00:24:30,364
Right?

554
00:24:30,465 --> 00:24:34,464
So, so it's kinda like, as in like the
coupling of one person who might be more

555
00:24:34,504 --> 00:24:39,284
in the mode of, uh, maybe demisexual,
maybe, like, I really need to take some

556
00:24:39,385 --> 00:24:43,164
time to get to know someone before I can
even consider engaging with them sexually,

557
00:24:43,205 --> 00:24:47,944
and so I like to take it really slow and
really evaluate things and, you know,

558
00:24:48,344 --> 00:24:52,924
th- then gets coupled up with someone
who's like, "No," like, "sex is a, um…

559
00:24:53,164 --> 00:24:55,904
It's a leisure activity for me." Like,
"This is how I get to know people.

560
00:24:55,964 --> 00:24:59,924
I enjoy, like, having casual sex or
dating really heavily or, um, you know,

561
00:25:00,004 --> 00:25:03,464
dating a lot of people at once or having
one-offs or, or going to play parties or

562
00:25:03,504 --> 00:25:08,284
whatever." And so that's where I sometimes
see that tension is that sometimes you can

563
00:25:08,324 --> 00:25:12,724
interpret your partner's different style
as, like, meaning something about you.

564
00:25:14,285 --> 00:25:16,284
Um, and that's where people
can run into trouble, yes.

565
00:25:16,385 --> 00:25:16,684
Yeah.

566
00:25:17,004 --> 00:25:17,014
Yes.

567
00:25:17,065 --> 00:25:17,284
Okay.

568
00:25:17,404 --> 00:25:18,205
That makes sense.

569
00:25:18,624 --> 00:25:18,634
Mm-hmm.

570
00:25:18,644 --> 00:25:24,525
Now, you had mentioned earlier
that quads are pretty hard.

571
00:25:25,205 --> 00:25:29,280
Is it because… i'm assuming
it's because different, different

572
00:25:29,299 --> 00:25:33,929
relationships, different personalities,
the melting of them all is kind

573
00:25:33,950 --> 00:25:38,920
of hard, especially if y'all are
all dating, inter-interchangeable.

574
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:40,600
Mm-hmm.

575
00:25:40,821 --> 00:25:43,370
Um, I would assume that's
where that part gets hard.

576
00:25:43,737 --> 00:25:48,170
Do you like it better when it's
just- you and your main partner

577
00:25:48,251 --> 00:25:52,870
dating one person, or where do y'all
usually see your relationships?

578
00:25:53,751 --> 00:25:56,870
I think that that's something I want to
clarify is that when we say that about

579
00:25:56,990 --> 00:26:01,030
quads being unstable, doesn't mean we
don't like them or they aren't great.

580
00:26:01,530 --> 00:26:01,571
Uh-huh.

581
00:26:01,571 --> 00:26:05,370
But if you think about, think
about all of the just two-person

582
00:26:05,410 --> 00:26:08,230
relationships you've had in your life,
and that most of us have had, right?

583
00:26:08,270 --> 00:26:13,711
That it's hard to find that combination
of two people that both are into each

584
00:26:13,791 --> 00:26:18,710
other, and then that also over time
both grow in ways that stay compatible

585
00:26:18,791 --> 00:26:19,970
with each other for very long.

586
00:26:20,230 --> 00:26:22,350
Like that's- Yeah … hard
to find just with two people.

587
00:26:22,670 --> 00:26:22,831
Yes.

588
00:26:22,910 --> 00:26:28,270
And then when you go to three, you
now have two or, you know, three

589
00:26:28,331 --> 00:26:30,050
different pairings of two people.

590
00:26:30,291 --> 00:26:30,471
Mm-hmm.

591
00:26:30,570 --> 00:26:32,930
Plus, how do we all get along as a group?

592
00:26:33,530 --> 00:26:38,050
That that's all, it can happen, but it's
harder to do and harder to find people

593
00:26:38,110 --> 00:26:39,811
that, again, all three grow together.

594
00:26:39,830 --> 00:26:43,950
And then I think with four, five,
that can get harder and harder.

595
00:26:44,090 --> 00:26:46,570
Just like thinking about probability.

596
00:26:46,610 --> 00:26:48,010
It's just harder to find- Yeah.

597
00:26:48,090 --> 00:26:48,810
… those right people.

598
00:26:48,850 --> 00:26:50,151
It's not that those don't work.

599
00:26:50,191 --> 00:26:51,950
They absolutely exist, and they do.

600
00:26:52,270 --> 00:26:56,230
But when, you know, the news
covers polyamory, they always

601
00:26:56,291 --> 00:26:58,230
want to focus on triads or quads.

602
00:26:58,490 --> 00:26:58,550
Yeah.

603
00:26:58,570 --> 00:26:58,580
Right.

604
00:26:58,580 --> 00:27:01,430
Because that looks like
what people are used to.

605
00:27:01,450 --> 00:27:03,430
It's like, oh, this is a
couple that lives together, but

606
00:27:03,471 --> 00:27:04,831
there's three of them, right?

607
00:27:04,990 --> 00:27:06,130
Or there's- Yeah … four of them.

608
00:27:06,371 --> 00:27:06,450
Yeah.

609
00:27:06,490 --> 00:27:06,500
Yeah.

610
00:27:06,791 --> 00:27:07,151
Whatever.

611
00:27:07,371 --> 00:27:11,730
Whereas in all of the research,
including our own as well as other

612
00:27:11,810 --> 00:27:17,450
people's, the predominant model of
polyamory, or really all non-monogamy

613
00:27:17,490 --> 00:27:20,430
really, is interconnected dyads.

614
00:27:20,890 --> 00:27:20,930
Uh-huh.

615
00:27:21,331 --> 00:27:21,430
Right?

616
00:27:21,471 --> 00:27:25,970
So two-person relationships, that one of
those people has another relationship,

617
00:27:26,070 --> 00:27:28,030
that relationship has another one.

618
00:27:28,070 --> 00:27:31,550
Maybe they loop back in on each other
sometimes, but those connections will

619
00:27:31,570 --> 00:27:33,847
sometimes break apart or reconnect.

620
00:27:34,053 --> 00:27:37,553
But that it's mostly made up of these
two-person connections that all kind

621
00:27:37,593 --> 00:27:39,133
of interconnect with each other.

622
00:27:39,633 --> 00:27:41,593
I never thought of it that
way, but that's- No … yeah,

623
00:27:41,973 --> 00:27:43,313
that makes complete sense.

624
00:27:43,483 --> 00:27:43,493
Right.

625
00:27:43,493 --> 00:27:45,463
Because, you know, I mean, even in a- See?

626
00:27:45,463 --> 00:27:50,783
… in a triad, I, I mean, you, it's, it's
never a 100% fully equal connection

627
00:27:50,853 --> 00:27:51,663
all the way- Yeah … around.

628
00:27:51,693 --> 00:27:54,333
I mean, it's, it's pretty much impossible.

629
00:27:54,653 --> 00:27:54,932
Mm-hmm.

630
00:27:55,253 --> 00:27:55,313
Yeah.

631
00:27:55,323 --> 00:27:57,633
Um, so that's, that's a really
great way to think about that.

632
00:27:57,953 --> 00:27:58,063
Mm-hmm.

633
00:27:58,328 --> 00:28:01,988
I'm gonna switch lanes here right
quick because When I saw that

634
00:28:01,998 --> 00:28:05,198
we booked you guys, there was a
question that immediately popped

635
00:28:05,258 --> 00:28:06,958
up, and I wanted to bring it up.

636
00:28:06,968 --> 00:28:06,978
Oh.

637
00:28:07,038 --> 00:28:12,476
Uh, the two different communities, we've
had our, our leg in, in both of them.

638
00:28:12,557 --> 00:28:16,797
But there's one term that, that
I've heard over and over again,

639
00:28:16,877 --> 00:28:18,197
and the meanings are different.

640
00:28:19,017 --> 00:28:20,007
Unicorn hunters.

641
00:28:20,737 --> 00:28:20,907
Hmm.

642
00:28:20,907 --> 00:28:20,977
Mm-hmm.

643
00:28:21,077 --> 00:28:26,157
Um, in the swinging world, a couple
looking for a, a unicorn is just normal.

644
00:28:26,257 --> 00:28:28,697
Uh, that's how a huge-
Mm … chunk of couples enter the

645
00:28:28,737 --> 00:28:29,917
lifestyle, as a matter of fact.

646
00:28:29,977 --> 00:28:34,632
A lot of people's first experiences
in the lifestyle is because, the woman

647
00:28:34,672 --> 00:28:39,712
is bisexual and the, the man is not,
and so this is the easiest thing to

648
00:28:40,192 --> 00:28:41,952
seek out for them a- as their- Yeah

649
00:28:41,952 --> 00:28:42,932
first experience.

650
00:28:42,982 --> 00:28:43,122
Mm-hmm.

651
00:28:43,472 --> 00:28:48,372
Um, a lot of people that stay in the
lifestyle realize there's so much more to

652
00:28:48,412 --> 00:28:53,012
it than that, and usually that's how you
can normally tell when somebody's new to

653
00:28:53,052 --> 00:28:56,612
the lifestyle is that that's immediately
and only what they're seeking out.

654
00:28:56,892 --> 00:28:56,972
Yeah.

655
00:28:57,032 --> 00:28:57,212
Right.

656
00:28:57,272 --> 00:28:57,932
That's where they start.

657
00:28:57,982 --> 00:28:58,912
But, you know- That's what feels safe

658
00:28:58,932 --> 00:29:00,292
yeah, that's what feels safe.

659
00:29:00,352 --> 00:29:00,362
Yeah.

660
00:29:00,372 --> 00:29:01,012
Exactly.

661
00:29:01,512 --> 00:29:08,102
Um, but it's not as negatively viewed
as it is in the poly community.

662
00:29:08,212 --> 00:29:11,304
And, and, and we're fully aware of why.

663
00:29:11,411 --> 00:29:16,166
Because obviously in, in poly
relationships, that whole idea of

664
00:29:16,206 --> 00:29:21,440
bringing a third in, and it, it is just
taking away their identity and the fact

665
00:29:21,500 --> 00:29:24,751
that they have, any kind of feelings,
that they bring anything to the table.

666
00:29:24,771 --> 00:29:26,091
They're more of an object.

667
00:29:26,291 --> 00:29:26,481
Mm-hmm.

668
00:29:26,791 --> 00:29:31,785
Um, a- and so it's, it's understandably
so why the, negative connotation.

669
00:29:32,143 --> 00:29:36,769
But How do you explain that
difference to people when you guys,

670
00:29:36,889 --> 00:29:38,379
uh, talk about that sort of thing?

671
00:29:39,029 --> 00:29:39,469
Hmm.

672
00:29:40,609 --> 00:29:47,229
Well, to be clear, unicorn hunting is
not, like, necessarily hated by everyone

673
00:29:47,289 --> 00:29:49,009
within the non-monogamous community.

674
00:29:49,409 --> 00:29:51,448
I think it is a thing that some people do.

675
00:29:51,589 --> 00:29:53,609
Some people enjoy being a unicorn.

676
00:29:54,069 --> 00:29:58,509
Some people like going out on dates
and feeling pampered and feeling like

677
00:29:58,549 --> 00:30:02,189
they're the attractive one that gets
to be doted on by a couple all night,

678
00:30:02,849 --> 00:30:07,368
and that can be a really thrilling and
fun situation for a person to be in.

679
00:30:07,469 --> 00:30:13,249
But I think the challenge lies in
when the unicorn has to be, you know,

680
00:30:13,449 --> 00:30:18,809
equally liked, like we were just talking
about, by both people, and if there are

681
00:30:18,889 --> 00:30:25,709
feelings stronger for one member than
another, then that is maybe where some

682
00:30:25,749 --> 00:30:30,429
challenges come in and where, you know,
that person might get kicked to the curb

683
00:30:30,949 --> 00:30:35,969
because y- both of the party members, the
initial couple, feel like, "Okay, this

684
00:30:36,029 --> 00:30:41,009
isn't something that we want, uh, kind
of infringing upon our relationship,"

685
00:30:41,069 --> 00:30:42,669
and so that person has to go.

686
00:30:43,089 --> 00:30:46,789
So yeah, when they don't have any
agency in the relationship, that's

687
00:30:46,869 --> 00:30:50,829
where the trouble comes, and that's
where I think things tend to go awry.

688
00:30:51,369 --> 00:30:57,249
But if you're doing it ethically, if
that person is someone that you both care

689
00:30:57,269 --> 00:31:02,389
for deeply and you maybe see on, like,
a basis of, m- I don't know, whenever

690
00:31:02,429 --> 00:31:03,989
they come into town or something-

691
00:31:04,349 --> 00:31:04,489
Mm-hmm

692
00:31:04,569 --> 00:31:06,169
it, it can be done ethically.

693
00:31:06,209 --> 00:31:11,169
It can be done well, but that isn't always
what happens, and I think especially

694
00:31:11,189 --> 00:31:15,109
with newbies who tend to just come in
and want, like, "Okay, this is what we're

695
00:31:15,129 --> 00:31:20,169
looking for, and we're not gonna deviate
from that in a way, in any way, and if

696
00:31:20,749 --> 00:31:24,809
one of us likes the unicorn more or the
unicorn likes one of us more, then we're

697
00:31:24,849 --> 00:31:27,909
gonna stop," that's where the issues come.

698
00:31:28,446 --> 00:31:29,386
Hold on, hold on.

699
00:31:29,446 --> 00:31:31,046
We need to tell you guys about 3Fun first.

700
00:31:31,426 --> 00:31:31,806
Oh, yeah.

701
00:31:32,566 --> 00:31:35,446
Okay, so 3Fun is the app.

702
00:31:35,766 --> 00:31:36,846
You guys know the app.

703
00:31:37,287 --> 00:31:39,606
And if you don't know, it's for
couples and singles who wanna

704
00:31:39,667 --> 00:31:41,206
connect with like-minded people.

705
00:31:41,586 --> 00:31:42,686
And it actually works.

706
00:31:42,966 --> 00:31:44,226
Like, we're not just saying that.

707
00:31:44,666 --> 00:31:47,887
It's easy, it's low pressure, and
it's way less awkward than trying

708
00:31:47,887 --> 00:31:48,826
to figure it out on your own.

709
00:31:49,406 --> 00:31:50,086
Way less.

710
00:31:50,666 --> 00:31:51,486
We're gonna leave it at that.

711
00:31:52,166 --> 00:31:52,466
Yep.

712
00:31:52,867 --> 00:31:54,106
Download 3Fun.

713
00:31:54,166 --> 00:31:56,006
The link is in the show notes.

714
00:31:56,346 --> 00:31:56,646
Okay.

715
00:31:57,166 --> 00:31:57,787
Where were we?

716
00:31:58,287 --> 00:31:58,446
Huh.

717
00:31:58,953 --> 00:32:02,253
That's where, yeah, that's where
I had a lot of the issues as well.

718
00:32:02,513 --> 00:32:05,913
,
I, I think that part of why there's
such a different impression in the two

719
00:32:05,953 --> 00:32:11,253
communities of unicorn hunting is also
to go back to where each community's

720
00:32:11,333 --> 00:32:18,382
starting from, that polyamory tends
to be also more queer and also more

721
00:32:18,682 --> 00:32:22,223
kind of politically minded in how
they think about their relationships.

722
00:32:23,063 --> 00:32:25,442
Uh, you know, think like
feminist-minded is kind of what

723
00:32:25,482 --> 00:32:27,102
I mean- Yeah … by politically-
Yeah, for sure … in this case.

724
00:32:27,143 --> 00:32:27,243
Yes.

725
00:32:28,062 --> 00:32:31,882
And so in that case, I think there's
also this issue that, I'm sure you've run

726
00:32:31,922 --> 00:32:36,663
into this as well, but something that'll
often happen with new couples wanting

727
00:32:36,702 --> 00:32:40,962
to open up is there's this idea that,
oh, if we both together date a woman-

728
00:32:41,562 --> 00:32:41,663
Mm-hmm

729
00:32:41,682 --> 00:32:45,622
somehow that's gonna be
safer or easier somehow.

730
00:32:45,643 --> 00:32:45,653
Right.

731
00:32:45,663 --> 00:32:48,803
And there's also this kind of assumption
that all women are sort of bisexual.

732
00:32:49,143 --> 00:32:49,163
Yeah.

733
00:32:49,182 --> 00:32:53,922
And so we've often seen these situations
where the woman in that i- initial

734
00:32:53,983 --> 00:32:59,367
heterosexual couple i- is, not really
that bi, but is kind of feeling like she

735
00:32:59,407 --> 00:33:00,867
needs to force herself to do that- Yeah

736
00:33:00,887 --> 00:33:03,967
'cause she likes the idea of this
lifestyle- Yeah … or wants to have

737
00:33:04,028 --> 00:33:07,447
sex, but her male partner is just
so uncomfortable with the idea of

738
00:33:07,547 --> 00:33:10,787
other dicks getting involved, and so
they say, "Oh, well, women are safe

739
00:33:10,828 --> 00:33:14,744
somehow." And so I think that's where
the, aversion comes from, 'cause when

740
00:33:14,824 --> 00:33:16,804
I say it like that, that was yucky.

741
00:33:16,844 --> 00:33:18,364
I just said a bunch of yucky stuff, right?

742
00:33:19,144 --> 00:33:20,024
You know, to, like, to treat it

743
00:33:20,024 --> 00:33:20,404
that way.

744
00:33:20,445 --> 00:33:22,784
It, but that is, that's
exactly what, I mean-

745
00:33:22,884 --> 00:33:24,344
I mean, toxic masculinity

746
00:33:24,765 --> 00:33:25,284
is- I, I- Right.

747
00:33:25,604 --> 00:33:25,704
There

748
00:33:25,744 --> 00:33:29,944
it is, yeah … exactly what you said,
I say exactly word for word on TikTok.

749
00:33:29,964 --> 00:33:31,144
Like, it, it's true.

750
00:33:31,244 --> 00:33:32,744
It is exactly what it is.

751
00:33:32,864 --> 00:33:36,364
Well, you know, I, I, I know when we
first got into the swinging aspect

752
00:33:36,444 --> 00:33:38,553
of it, I enjoy watching her- Mm-hmm

753
00:33:38,553 --> 00:33:39,273
with others.

754
00:33:39,792 --> 00:33:42,252
And, you know, I enjoy
watching her with other men.

755
00:33:42,973 --> 00:33:49,892
And the immediate reaction from a lot
of men is, "Well, I ain't gay." Uh- Hmm.

756
00:33:49,892 --> 00:33:50,502
"Sorry, bro." Hmm.

757
00:33:50,652 --> 00:33:54,292
"I ain't gay." So- Interesting … you,
you're gonna be watching me bang

758
00:33:54,332 --> 00:33:56,412
your broad and you're gonna… What,
what do you wanna suck my dick?

759
00:33:56,492 --> 00:33:57,212
I ain't gay." Hmm.

760
00:33:57,312 --> 00:33:59,552
And it's like, "Hold, uh,
pump the brakes there, bro."

761
00:33:59,812 --> 00:34:01,093
Like, it's not like that.

762
00:34:01,572 --> 00:34:05,710
Um, a- and that's where you start
really, seeing… And that's people

763
00:34:05,770 --> 00:34:08,831
who are in the lifestyle maybe a
year- Yeah … a couple of years-

764
00:34:09,090 --> 00:34:09,350
Mm-hmm

765
00:34:09,370 --> 00:34:10,930
…
that toxic- Hmm … masculinity.

766
00:34:11,390 --> 00:34:16,034
Something that always has to be said
is, "Oh, well, are you guys okay, being

767
00:34:16,155 --> 00:34:22,293
around each other sexually? Maybe a
little contact might happen." W- like,

768
00:34:22,332 --> 00:34:23,392
we really have to talk about that?

769
00:34:23,432 --> 00:34:26,732
Like, we're- … we're literally all
about to have sex, like, obviously.

770
00:34:26,953 --> 00:34:27,432
You know what I mean?

771
00:34:28,113 --> 00:34:30,672
Um, uh, but that's the,
the toxic masculinity.

772
00:34:30,812 --> 00:34:36,007
I think it really- Yeah … affects a lot
of the portions of ethical non-monogamy.

773
00:34:36,407 --> 00:34:36,447
Mm-hmm.

774
00:34:36,488 --> 00:34:37,308
Uh, and- Right.

775
00:34:37,348 --> 00:34:38,948
Yeah … and 'cause it's less ethical.

776
00:34:39,827 --> 00:34:42,827
I think also, yeah, because of the
starting points that it's like my

777
00:34:42,867 --> 00:34:48,460
impression, you know, that unicorn
hunters in the swinging space And like

778
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:52,120
this happens within polyamory communities
too, but it's like starting from a place

779
00:34:52,180 --> 00:34:55,600
of like, oh, this is just kinda like
fun or to fulfill a fantasy, right?

780
00:34:55,740 --> 00:35:00,720
That's a very different starting place
from, I think the, the reputation that

781
00:35:00,780 --> 00:35:04,560
unicorn hunters who infiltrate polyamory
spaces tend to have is a little bit

782
00:35:04,620 --> 00:35:05,900
more of like, no, this is for real.

783
00:35:05,980 --> 00:35:09,440
Like, we want you to move in with us
and like- Hmm … be, be in a triad with

784
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:11,680
us and like help us raise our children.

785
00:35:11,720 --> 00:35:11,940
And- But you

786
00:35:11,980 --> 00:35:14,150
won't get to make any decisions
about how they're raised- Right

787
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:14,990
or our house or

788
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:15,270
our finances or anything.

789
00:35:15,270 --> 00:35:15,460
Right.

790
00:35:15,500 --> 00:35:18,320
But, but you might get kicked to the
curb because like we've been together 20

791
00:35:18,380 --> 00:35:21,520
years and you're just entering this, you
know- Yeah … for the first time, right?

792
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:22,280
That, that, that-

793
00:35:22,500 --> 00:35:23,090
It

794
00:35:23,090 --> 00:35:23,180
raises it, yeah.

795
00:35:23,240 --> 00:35:23,900
Yeah, exactly.

796
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:28,480
That, that again, it's like there's…
This, this all falls on a spectrum

797
00:35:28,500 --> 00:35:32,210
between could be fun, could be really
ethical, everyone could be engaging

798
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:34,900
in, in this in the way that they want
to and it's fine, all the way to like

799
00:35:34,970 --> 00:35:37,440
very exploitive and predatory, right?

800
00:35:37,540 --> 00:35:41,400
And I, and I think that the polyamory
community, when people enter that space

801
00:35:41,500 --> 00:35:44,650
wanting a unicorn, it comes across as a
little bit more predatory because it's

802
00:35:44,650 --> 00:35:46,940
not just about like- Mm-hmm … oh,
let's just have some sexy fun.

803
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:50,410
It's a little bit more like, no, we're
gonna incorporate you into a structure

804
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:52,680
that's probably not to your advantage.

805
00:35:53,180 --> 00:35:53,700
Hmm.

806
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:54,120
Okay.

807
00:35:54,310 --> 00:35:54,520
Mm-hmm.

808
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:55,100
Yeah.

809
00:35:55,180 --> 00:35:56,040
Very well said.

810
00:35:56,540 --> 00:35:59,620
Something I wanted to hit on with
that is just to say that I think

811
00:35:59,740 --> 00:36:04,660
both sides can go too far i- in
their assumptions and with that.

812
00:36:04,750 --> 00:36:04,760
Hmm.

813
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:08,500
Like, like we said with the swinger
side, it can be this, oh well, women

814
00:36:08,540 --> 00:36:11,680
are safe for some reason, and I wanna
talk about that in just a second.

815
00:36:11,860 --> 00:36:15,480
But uh, then the other part is on the
poly side that, like what Dedeker said,

816
00:36:15,540 --> 00:36:20,900
is there's this-- there are people who
like to be unicorns like Emily mentioned.

817
00:36:20,940 --> 00:36:21,200
Mm-hmm.

818
00:36:21,380 --> 00:36:24,760
And to just say, "Oh, this is always
bad," is also- Hmm … painting

819
00:36:24,780 --> 00:36:26,410
with a really broad brush, right?

820
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:30,660
Like- Right … I, I know that unicorns
pretty much always mean bisexual women.

821
00:36:30,900 --> 00:36:33,970
Sometimes men can be called
a Pegasus, I've heard before.

822
00:36:34,350 --> 00:36:34,920
Uh- A dragon,

823
00:36:35,020 --> 00:36:35,660
I think it is.

824
00:36:35,980 --> 00:36:36,940
Or a dragon I've heard.

825
00:36:37,030 --> 00:36:37,050
Dragon, yeah.

826
00:36:37,050 --> 00:36:39,740
But dragon is used for
the asexual community too.

827
00:36:40,380 --> 00:36:40,480
For the ace, yeah.

828
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:40,859
Really?

829
00:36:41,190 --> 00:36:41,560
So, yeah.

830
00:36:41,590 --> 00:36:41,610
I see.

831
00:36:41,610 --> 00:36:41,670
Well,

832
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:42,560
I did not know that.

833
00:36:42,620 --> 00:36:45,980
They're dragons too, so that's why
Pegasus is the one that I've heard.

834
00:36:46,060 --> 00:36:51,200
Anyway, um, the point is, like
I had a, a stint being a third

835
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:53,020
for a couple, and I loved it.

836
00:36:53,220 --> 00:36:57,760
And, and the whole like I don't have
agency in this relationship was part of

837
00:36:57,780 --> 00:37:01,880
the selling point for me, is it's sort
of like, "Cool, I get to leave now and go

838
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:03,780
back to my own place." I don't have to-

839
00:37:03,860 --> 00:37:05,480
See, I, I have… Yes.

840
00:37:05,660 --> 00:37:06,920
I-- you and I think alike.

841
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:07,500
Exactly.

842
00:37:07,540 --> 00:37:08,300
It's like cool.

843
00:37:09,460 --> 00:37:10,520
I think that's primates.

844
00:37:10,820 --> 00:37:11,280
Yeah.

845
00:37:11,380 --> 00:37:12,179
We'll get back to that.

846
00:37:12,240 --> 00:37:12,980
Okay, go ahead.

847
00:37:13,300 --> 00:37:17,340
But, but, but I did wanna say one thing
about the whole women are safe thing.

848
00:37:17,580 --> 00:37:21,720
And when I had this realization a
few years ago when we were talking

849
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:25,080
about this, it's really stuck with
me and it's basically comes down to

850
00:37:25,500 --> 00:37:30,300
for some reason, I'll let you fill
in the blanks of the reasons, uh, we

851
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:34,679
really overvalue/overfear penises.

852
00:37:35,604 --> 00:37:36,684
And so if you think about this- They are

853
00:37:36,684 --> 00:37:37,144
scary.

854
00:37:38,884 --> 00:37:39,864
Well, so think about this.

855
00:37:40,024 --> 00:37:42,744
If, if you think about, like,
celebrities you've heard of that

856
00:37:42,864 --> 00:37:44,923
are bisexual of some kind, right?

857
00:37:45,264 --> 00:37:45,454
Mm-hmm.

858
00:37:45,504 --> 00:37:50,284
That generally speaking, if it's a woman
who's bisexual, think like Angelina Jolie-

859
00:37:50,644 --> 00:37:53,443
Mm-hmm … we go, "Oh, she's straight,
but sometimes she's had sex with women."

860
00:37:53,904 --> 00:37:54,104
Mm-hmm.

861
00:37:54,224 --> 00:37:58,404
And then if we have a man who's
bisexual, we go, "Oh, he's gay." Oh.

862
00:37:58,424 --> 00:38:01,004
And it's like we're, when- whenever
there's a penis involved, that one

863
00:38:01,064 --> 00:38:04,524
kinda overrules ones that only-
Oh … have vaginas involved.

864
00:38:04,584 --> 00:38:09,524
It's like in both cases, we
somehow think that one takes over.

865
00:38:09,534 --> 00:38:09,964
More relevant.

866
00:38:09,973 --> 00:38:13,973
That one, that one matters in a way
that if there's no penis, it doesn't.

867
00:38:13,984 --> 00:38:13,994
Wow.

868
00:38:13,994 --> 00:38:18,184
Which I think goes to the whole, like,
one penis policy that people will have

869
00:38:18,644 --> 00:38:21,704
when their male partner just feels
too freaked out by another penis being

870
00:38:21,724 --> 00:38:25,594
involved, all the way to the point where
men can be so weird that they don't

871
00:38:25,644 --> 00:38:28,484
want their female partners to use sex
toys, 'cause that's too intimidating to

872
00:38:28,544 --> 00:38:29,904
have another- I've, I've known several

873
00:38:29,984 --> 00:38:30,014
of those

874
00:38:30,014 --> 00:38:30,034
penis-shaped thing.

875
00:38:30,034 --> 00:38:30,044
Yeah.

876
00:38:30,044 --> 00:38:35,052
So when I was married, my first husband
did not like me to have, sex toys.

877
00:38:35,732 --> 00:38:36,762
And- Right.

878
00:38:36,772 --> 00:38:37,112
Yeah.

879
00:38:37,142 --> 00:38:37,382
Oh, gosh.

880
00:38:37,432 --> 00:38:41,808
But then we would only have anal sex, and
then that's when he bought me a toy, and

881
00:38:41,848 --> 00:38:46,250
I was like, "Oh, he's… So he's…" We
finally realized he, he actually is gay.

882
00:38:46,310 --> 00:38:46,470
Yeah.

883
00:38:46,780 --> 00:38:46,790
Yeah.

884
00:38:46,790 --> 00:38:46,930
And

885
00:38:47,050 --> 00:38:48,290
I was like, "Oh, okay." There it

886
00:38:48,370 --> 00:38:48,610
is.

887
00:38:48,710 --> 00:38:48,870
Hmm.

888
00:38:49,010 --> 00:38:49,510
Yeah.

889
00:38:49,530 --> 00:38:53,760
But he was so- Yeah … intimidated
by, um, by sex toys.

890
00:38:54,330 --> 00:38:55,990
Like I could have a little- Oh,
interesting … like vibrator,

891
00:38:56,010 --> 00:38:57,690
but I couldn't have like a dildo.

892
00:38:57,750 --> 00:38:58,310
Oh, no dildo.

893
00:38:58,390 --> 00:38:58,550
Hmm.

894
00:38:59,030 --> 00:38:59,710
Yeah.

895
00:38:59,770 --> 00:39:01,550
We don't subscribe to
that in this household.

896
00:39:02,010 --> 00:39:02,090
Yeah.

897
00:39:02,210 --> 00:39:02,900
Yeah.

898
00:39:02,900 --> 00:39:05,250
Yeah, and you know, I didn't even
realize that there was such thing

899
00:39:05,330 --> 00:39:09,510
as, um, the one penis policy
until probably about a year ago.

900
00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:09,650
Hmm.

901
00:39:09,670 --> 00:39:12,190
Well, I, I told you about
it when we were poly.

902
00:39:12,290 --> 00:39:12,320
You told me.

903
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:12,410
Yeah.

904
00:39:12,420 --> 00:39:14,530
Yeah, I told you that- Mm-hmm … that
I was, I was seeing, um- But

905
00:39:14,570 --> 00:39:16,670
like I didn't, never knew
anybody who actually…

906
00:39:16,930 --> 00:39:18,660
Like people would put it in
their dating profile apps.

907
00:39:18,670 --> 00:39:19,050
I was like,

908
00:39:19,110 --> 00:39:19,230
"
Oh."

909
00:39:19,910 --> 00:39:20,480
Really?

910
00:39:20,710 --> 00:39:21,240
Like, "Oh, look at that.
Oh, yeah." On, yeah.

911
00:39:21,750 --> 00:39:23,650
Is this on like FetLife or what

912
00:39:23,690 --> 00:39:24,160
is this on?

913
00:39:24,170 --> 00:39:24,350
No, no.

914
00:39:24,390 --> 00:39:27,170
Like for that was on- Or Feeld
or… I saw that on OkCupid.

915
00:39:27,570 --> 00:39:28,070
Oh.

916
00:39:28,290 --> 00:39:31,450
Um, that's really where I would see
it was on OkCupid, 'cause that's

917
00:39:31,490 --> 00:39:33,730
the one that I used primarily-
Uh-huh … when we were poly.

918
00:39:33,770 --> 00:39:33,910
Mm-hmm.

919
00:39:34,250 --> 00:39:34,430
Um- And

920
00:39:34,470 --> 00:39:38,090
were you finding that more with
swinger or lifestyle type couples

921
00:39:38,150 --> 00:39:39,890
or things like that on there?

922
00:39:40,450 --> 00:39:41,630
I, you know, primarily.

923
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:46,464
But the couples that I was seeking
were more for poly excursions than-

924
00:39:46,504 --> 00:39:47,824
Mm-hmm … than anything else.

925
00:39:48,444 --> 00:39:48,724
Um, and- I feel

926
00:39:48,744 --> 00:39:51,524
like it's become such a dirty
word in the poly community to

927
00:39:51,564 --> 00:39:51,904
say one

928
00:39:51,944 --> 00:39:52,164
penis policy.

929
00:39:52,164 --> 00:39:52,624
Well, so dirty word

930
00:39:52,724 --> 00:39:53,504
here too.

931
00:39:53,604 --> 00:39:56,434
Well, so it, it, it, it is.

932
00:39:56,504 --> 00:39:56,514
Yeah.

933
00:39:56,514 --> 00:39:57,544
I mean, it really is.

934
00:39:57,744 --> 00:39:59,564
Uh, but this was…

935
00:39:59,984 --> 00:40:01,664
Gosh, this is COVID.

936
00:40:02,464 --> 00:40:02,504
Yeah.

937
00:40:02,784 --> 00:40:02,934
Hmm.

938
00:40:03,224 --> 00:40:03,244
You know?

939
00:40:03,264 --> 00:40:07,364
Now, you saying that, do
you think that swingers are-

940
00:40:09,443 --> 00:40:11,963
dirtier than poly people?

941
00:40:12,123 --> 00:40:12,963
A little trashier?

942
00:40:13,023 --> 00:40:13,363
Like do- What do

943
00:40:13,403 --> 00:40:14,383
you mean by dirtier?

944
00:40:14,863 --> 00:40:14,963
Yeah.

945
00:40:15,023 --> 00:40:15,244
Like do

946
00:40:15,843 --> 00:40:15,913
the- Like

947
00:40:15,913 --> 00:40:16,363
kinky

948
00:40:16,383 --> 00:40:16,403
or

949
00:40:16,423 --> 00:40:16,433
trashier?

950
00:40:16,433 --> 00:40:16,443
Like

951
00:40:16,443 --> 00:40:18,123
are you talking like less dirty or-

952
00:40:18,724 --> 00:40:18,843
You know, I mean- Yeah,

953
00:40:18,923 --> 00:40:19,743
what do you, what do you mean

954
00:40:19,803 --> 00:40:20,144
by that?

955
00:40:20,423 --> 00:40:24,803
You know, like, um, are poly people,
Are they, like, more in their own

956
00:40:24,843 --> 00:40:26,983
little bubble as opposed to swingers?

957
00:40:27,084 --> 00:40:31,523
We're, we're pineapples all over
the place- … as you can tell.

958
00:40:31,623 --> 00:40:32,843
I don't write these questions, guys.

959
00:40:32,904 --> 00:40:37,463
We're all about, you know, we're all
about, um, not, not we're all about, but

960
00:40:37,643 --> 00:40:41,143
a lot of partying, a lot of celebration.

961
00:40:41,323 --> 00:40:43,796
Um- I mean, shit, yeah.

962
00:40:43,836 --> 00:40:47,136
There's just a lot of, a lot
of activities all the time.

963
00:40:47,636 --> 00:40:49,936
And fucking themes on everything.

964
00:40:50,836 --> 00:40:51,656
That's true.

965
00:40:51,696 --> 00:40:51,956
That's true.

966
00:40:51,966 --> 00:40:54,196
So, you know, we are the- Everything
has a theme, yeah … may, you know, um,

967
00:40:54,456 --> 00:40:56,496
we're pol- Swingers do theme- You know,
we're, we're swingers … things a lot

968
00:40:56,556 --> 00:40:56,816
more.

969
00:40:56,896 --> 00:40:57,086
That's

970
00:40:57,156 --> 00:40:57,236
true.

971
00:40:57,256 --> 00:40:57,435
Yeah.

972
00:40:57,486 --> 00:40:57,496
Yeah.

973
00:40:57,496 --> 00:40:58,936
We're swingers and we're proud, right?

974
00:40:59,386 --> 00:40:59,396
Yeah.

975
00:40:59,416 --> 00:41:06,056
Do you find that more that we are, we
are raunchier than like poly people?

976
00:41:06,486 --> 00:41:06,836
Well, sh- Mm.

977
00:41:07,696 --> 00:41:08,036
Sure.

978
00:41:08,116 --> 00:41:08,536
I don't know.

979
00:41:08,676 --> 00:41:09,276
It depends on the person.

980
00:41:09,306 --> 00:41:09,956
'
Cause the thing is that
like- I don't know about that

981
00:41:10,096 --> 00:41:13,036
…
yeah, the poly community- Yeah … also
has this, like, Venn diagram

982
00:41:13,096 --> 00:41:14,556
overlap with the kink community.

983
00:41:14,626 --> 00:41:16,716
And I know the kink and the swing
set community- Exactly … sometimes

984
00:41:16,796 --> 00:41:17,836
have an overlap, right?

985
00:41:17,936 --> 00:41:22,396
And so it's like the raunchiness lives at
the center of those three bubbles, right?

986
00:41:22,426 --> 00:41:22,436
Okay.

987
00:41:22,456 --> 00:41:24,946
Mm. Where it's not necessarily
everybody within all those communities,

988
00:41:25,016 --> 00:41:26,916
but there is an overlap there.

989
00:41:26,956 --> 00:41:28,616
I, the, what it makes me
wanna talk about, though…

990
00:41:28,696 --> 00:41:32,096
Well, first of all, I do think swingers
are more fun as a community, I will say.

991
00:41:32,696 --> 00:41:33,016
I think that things are more-
And we say this as people

992
00:41:33,076 --> 00:41:34,736
who love being poly people and love our

993
00:41:34,796 --> 00:41:34,896
community.

994
00:41:34,926 --> 00:41:34,946
Thank you.

995
00:41:34,976 --> 00:41:35,256
Yeah.

996
00:41:35,416 --> 00:41:37,816
Loving poly, but I do
think they're more fun.

997
00:41:37,876 --> 00:41:40,326
You know, I think the poly people
sometimes we can have sticks up our

998
00:41:40,436 --> 00:41:43,276
asses about, like, a lotta stuff,
and, like, too much to have any fun.

999
00:41:43,326 --> 00:41:47,256
Mm. So, like, I, I do think that
swingers ha- are just, like, more fun.

1000
00:41:47,356 --> 00:41:47,516
Um.

1001
00:41:47,616 --> 00:41:47,876
Okay.

1002
00:41:48,356 --> 00:41:53,656
But I think what we've seen, and this
has influenced our show as well, um,

1003
00:41:53,736 --> 00:42:00,266
and this sort of echoes, I think, what
we saw in the US around the fight for

1004
00:42:00,296 --> 00:42:03,756
securing, um, access to gay marriage.

1005
00:42:04,336 --> 00:42:04,496
Uh-huh.

1006
00:42:04,696 --> 00:42:08,716
Is that if you look at the gay
community, that's a community that

1007
00:42:08,776 --> 00:42:13,496
historically has, has been a very, like,
sexy, raunchy community also, right?

1008
00:42:13,596 --> 00:42:16,636
Between bathhouse culture
and cruising culture.

1009
00:42:16,676 --> 00:42:20,916
But, like, when you're trying to advocate
for rights, like, you know, the campaign

1010
00:42:20,936 --> 00:42:22,316
does not want to lead with that, right?

1011
00:42:22,336 --> 00:42:24,196
Because we still live in- Mm … a
pretty sex negative culture.

1012
00:42:24,306 --> 00:42:24,326
Mm-hmm.

1013
00:42:24,576 --> 00:42:27,356
And so it becomes sanitized-
Right … and becomes scrubbed down

1014
00:42:27,436 --> 00:42:28,956
to, like, "Oh, it's about love," right?

1015
00:42:29,056 --> 00:42:29,576
It's about love.

1016
00:42:29,626 --> 00:42:30,256
It's about marriage.

1017
00:42:30,296 --> 00:42:31,716
Like, we want all the same things-
You can all relate to that … that

1018
00:42:31,716 --> 00:42:32,596
you straight people want.

1019
00:42:32,796 --> 00:42:32,806
Mm-hmm.

1020
00:42:32,876 --> 00:42:33,216
Yeah.

1021
00:42:33,516 --> 00:42:33,616
Yeah.

1022
00:42:33,756 --> 00:42:34,516
It's just that we're gay.

1023
00:42:34,576 --> 00:42:35,976
It's just that we're the same sex, right?

1024
00:42:36,246 --> 00:42:37,736
And that's not wrong, right?

1025
00:42:37,876 --> 00:42:39,136
That's, that's all true.

1026
00:42:39,346 --> 00:42:39,356
Yeah.

1027
00:42:39,356 --> 00:42:40,676
But it also does kinda sanitize.

1028
00:42:40,716 --> 00:42:43,036
But there's also other parts
of the queer community that are

1029
00:42:43,136 --> 00:42:45,696
very sexy and sex focused, right?

1030
00:42:45,796 --> 00:42:45,946
Mm-hmm.

1031
00:42:45,946 --> 00:42:46,816
And body positive.

1032
00:42:47,376 --> 00:42:51,476
And I think we see the same thing
with polyamory that because often

1033
00:42:51,516 --> 00:42:56,176
we're fighting so hard, like, like,
relationships often get dismissed as, "Oh,

1034
00:42:56,216 --> 00:42:58,536
this is just a horny sex thing," right?

1035
00:42:58,656 --> 00:43:02,156
This is just about you wanting to have
sex with multiple people or have group

1036
00:43:02,176 --> 00:43:06,016
sex or be in some sorta weird sex cult
that I think there is this implicit

1037
00:43:06,096 --> 00:43:09,656
pressure within the polyamorous community
and individuals to swing a little

1038
00:43:09,676 --> 00:43:12,816
more sex negative and to be like, "No,
no, no, it's not just about the sex.

1039
00:43:12,876 --> 00:43:15,706
Like, it is about these real relationships
that are emotional and romantic and

1040
00:43:15,756 --> 00:43:19,096
entangled and we, and, like, we c- you
know, maybe I'm co-parenting with multiple

1041
00:43:19,196 --> 00:43:22,016
people or living with multiple people or,
like, building these support networks."

1042
00:43:22,056 --> 00:43:24,256
And again, it's like that is true.

1043
00:43:24,988 --> 00:43:29,438
And also it means that I think
people feel pressure to scrub out

1044
00:43:29,448 --> 00:43:31,788
some of the sexuality from it.

1045
00:43:31,828 --> 00:43:35,188
Literally, we just ran a listener sur-
survey recently- … and our biggest

1046
00:43:35,228 --> 00:43:37,768
listener complaint is that we don't
talk about sex enough on our show.

1047
00:43:38,288 --> 00:43:38,938
So Apparently

1048
00:43:38,988 --> 00:43:40,648
we're very sex negative.

1049
00:43:41,127 --> 00:43:42,848
We don't mean to be necessarily.

1050
00:43:42,998 --> 00:43:45,368
Yeah, so it's- It's just like-
Right … our show doesn't, isn't…

1051
00:43:45,408 --> 00:43:47,158
There are other shows out there that
lean that- We're not all in with

1052
00:43:47,208 --> 00:43:47,408
that

1053
00:43:47,788 --> 00:43:49,358
yeah, that are about- Yes … the sex.

1054
00:43:49,408 --> 00:43:50,748
And we are less about that.

1055
00:43:51,428 --> 00:43:54,608
But it's been on a private level-
But we like sex … I don't know.

1056
00:43:54,648 --> 00:43:56,928
On a private level, honestly,
like, the number of parties that

1057
00:43:56,948 --> 00:43:59,468
I've gone to with poly people that
are only with poly people, like,

1058
00:43:59,528 --> 00:44:01,428
these are horny, raunchy people.

1059
00:44:01,448 --> 00:44:01,568
Oh,

1060
00:44:01,648 --> 00:44:01,788
yeah.

1061
00:44:01,828 --> 00:44:02,188
For sure.

1062
00:44:02,268 --> 00:44:02,348
Yeah.

1063
00:44:02,628 --> 00:44:03,348
For sure.

1064
00:44:03,868 --> 00:44:06,338
I just think on a public stage-
They're hot parties … yeah, people

1065
00:44:06,448 --> 00:44:08,488
don't necessarily- Yes … want
to lead with that in the way that

1066
00:44:08,548 --> 00:44:10,848
someone who's, like, proud to be
a swinger might lead with that.

1067
00:44:11,088 --> 00:44:11,308
Yeah.

1068
00:44:11,388 --> 00:44:16,279
Well, so, I remember when we were poly,
and I remember specifically when we moved

1069
00:44:16,319 --> 00:44:21,139
to Central Texas because o- originally
we were from, uh, a small beach town in

1070
00:44:21,279 --> 00:44:26,829
South Texas where the swinger community
was incredibly small, and the swingers

1071
00:44:26,859 --> 00:44:28,859
looked down on us for becoming poly.

1072
00:44:28,899 --> 00:44:28,909
Mm-hmm.

1073
00:44:29,399 --> 00:44:29,649
Sure.

1074
00:44:29,698 --> 00:44:30,519
Wow.

1075
00:44:30,529 --> 00:44:32,789
And, and we, we got judgment
from the swinger community.

1076
00:44:33,039 --> 00:44:33,139
Yeah.

1077
00:44:33,179 --> 00:44:36,199
So we were looking forward to moving to
Central Texas because we knew that they

1078
00:44:36,279 --> 00:44:39,129
had a bigger, uh, community out there.

1079
00:44:39,179 --> 00:44:39,189
Mm-hmm.

1080
00:44:39,189 --> 00:44:46,159
And so when we did, we realized that
the poly community was being judgmental

1081
00:44:46,279 --> 00:44:49,319
towards some of the swingers- Yeah

1082
00:44:49,339 --> 00:44:50,619
uh, in the swinger community.

1083
00:44:51,059 --> 00:44:54,839
And I remember specifically, but this,
this guy, he had-- There was good

1084
00:44:54,879 --> 00:44:58,589
reason why he was being judged- … if
you ask me, because he was- … he was

1085
00:44:58,679 --> 00:45:04,399
using the poly label, but he was really
utilizing it for his sexual whims.

1086
00:45:04,439 --> 00:45:04,699
Mm-hmm.

1087
00:45:05,059 --> 00:45:05,319
Yeah.

1088
00:45:05,339 --> 00:45:08,139
And it, it, he wasn't treating
them as actual relationships.

1089
00:45:08,219 --> 00:45:11,339
He would use them as sexual
conquests, and then they'd be gone.

1090
00:45:11,839 --> 00:45:14,799
Uh, so I, I, I completely get
the, uh, the judgment there.

1091
00:45:14,879 --> 00:45:20,919
But I, I did sit on several meet and
greets of, of swinger bashing, you know?

1092
00:45:20,979 --> 00:45:21,779
Oh, gosh.

1093
00:45:22,149 --> 00:45:22,339
Yes.

1094
00:45:22,399 --> 00:45:24,699
And, you know, hearing stuff like
that, and it's just kind of funny,

1095
00:45:25,299 --> 00:45:29,159
um, being that, I don't know, it seems
like there's more swingers that are

1096
00:45:29,219 --> 00:45:34,803
starting to, uh, entertain, poly,
especially with- least on our side.

1097
00:45:35,263 --> 00:45:40,453
Uh, we, we come across this a lot, and I,
I wanna say the number one question, and

1098
00:45:40,463 --> 00:45:44,883
I'd really like to get y'all's opinion
on it for those who have hit us up with

1099
00:45:44,933 --> 00:45:52,518
this question is, when you have a couple
who is mismatched, when you have a couple

1100
00:45:52,558 --> 00:45:58,358
who one person is just wants to be a
swinger, just wants to have the sexual

1101
00:45:58,438 --> 00:46:03,238
openness, and the other one is more
poly-minded and would like connection,

1102
00:46:03,778 --> 00:46:07,528
what kind of advice would you give a
couple who's dealing with that right now?

1103
00:46:08,148 --> 00:46:12,129
Something that we've talked about
before on the show is this idea

1104
00:46:12,248 --> 00:46:17,108
of if you're not dating anybody,
can you still be polyamorous?

1105
00:46:17,828 --> 00:46:20,568
Or if you only have one partner,
are you still polyamorous?

1106
00:46:21,428 --> 00:46:26,528
And I always like to make the analogy
of, well, if you're straight but you're

1107
00:46:26,589 --> 00:46:28,568
single, you're still straight, right?

1108
00:46:28,929 --> 00:46:32,268
Or if you're a monogamous person and you
don't have a partner, you don't really

1109
00:46:32,368 --> 00:46:34,208
question are you monogamous or not.

1110
00:46:34,688 --> 00:46:38,708
It's more about like these are my, my
identity, my beliefs, my preferences,

1111
00:46:38,768 --> 00:46:40,968
kind of all of that rolled into one thing.

1112
00:46:41,849 --> 00:46:46,897
And so oftentimes when we talk about, you
know, couples where, you know, one person

1113
00:46:46,968 --> 00:46:50,228
wants to date other people- Mm-hmm … and
their partner is like, "Yeah, go for it.

1114
00:46:50,288 --> 00:46:51,188
Like, that's fine with me.

1115
00:46:51,508 --> 00:46:52,788
I don't wanna date anyone else.

1116
00:46:53,108 --> 00:46:57,388
I feel monogamous with you," I would
argue that they're polyamorous 'cause

1117
00:46:57,448 --> 00:47:00,588
it's more about, like, the freedom
that they feel like the people in

1118
00:47:00,648 --> 00:47:02,148
their relationships should have.

1119
00:47:02,988 --> 00:47:05,748
And so I think with your question,
that's what it comes down to, is

1120
00:47:05,808 --> 00:47:11,008
that in that example where they are
mismatched, are they okay with what

1121
00:47:11,028 --> 00:47:12,768
the other person is doing, right?

1122
00:47:12,808 --> 00:47:16,118
Like, do they feel like that's
a valid way for a partner of

1123
00:47:16,148 --> 00:47:18,068
their own to live their life?

1124
00:47:18,628 --> 00:47:22,428
Meaning, if I just wanna have casual sex
and I'm with a partner who's fine with

1125
00:47:22,448 --> 00:47:27,088
me doing that, and they wanna have really
long-term committed poly relationships,

1126
00:47:27,328 --> 00:47:29,728
and I'm okay with them doing that, great.

1127
00:47:30,288 --> 00:47:30,828
No problem.

1128
00:47:31,588 --> 00:47:36,308
But if it's that, but I, I… You know,
they judge casual sex as like, "Oh,

1129
00:47:36,388 --> 00:47:41,228
that's for irresponsible people, and I
don't do that." And then if I fear their

1130
00:47:41,248 --> 00:47:44,048
relationships of going, "No, but you
have all these strong feelings," like,

1131
00:47:44,168 --> 00:47:46,328
that puts me at risk of you leaving me.

1132
00:47:46,628 --> 00:47:50,028
"I don't want you-" Yeah … "to do
that," then that's just not, not a very

1133
00:47:50,048 --> 00:47:51,868
compatible worldview for those two people.

1134
00:47:52,348 --> 00:47:53,028
That makes sense.

1135
00:47:53,618 --> 00:47:54,168
That makes sense.

1136
00:47:54,373 --> 00:47:57,433
It's funny because that's the number
one question that we get often.

1137
00:47:57,601 --> 00:48:01,701
Yeah … and we are actually--
We've been in that situation.

1138
00:48:01,941 --> 00:48:02,081
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

1139
00:48:02,081 --> 00:48:07,001
You know, Pris has always been
100%, "I, I don't wanna do poly."

1140
00:48:07,081 --> 00:48:12,321
We did poly and, and suffice to
say she, she did it more so for me.

1141
00:48:12,771 --> 00:48:12,781
Mm-hmm.

1142
00:48:12,821 --> 00:48:16,801
And I initially thought that we were
doing it more so for her because now

1143
00:48:16,861 --> 00:48:19,421
you get to experience a, a, a woman-

1144
00:48:19,681 --> 00:48:19,871
Mm-hmm

1145
00:48:19,941 --> 00:48:20,761
…
relationship.

1146
00:48:20,841 --> 00:48:20,851
Mm-hmm.

1147
00:48:20,881 --> 00:48:24,731
Like a legit woman romantic
relationship, not just sexual.

1148
00:48:24,837 --> 00:48:29,077
And I felt like I was doing it
for her, but deep down I was also

1149
00:48:29,117 --> 00:48:33,717
doing it for me because I wanted
to have these experiences as well.

1150
00:48:34,317 --> 00:48:37,877
And I enjoyed it to an extent.

1151
00:48:38,177 --> 00:48:40,057
Um, she made it hard for me.

1152
00:48:40,177 --> 00:48:42,828
She, uh-- Like she, she'll admit,
she made it hard for me because

1153
00:48:42,848 --> 00:48:46,668
it was hard for her, so she was
going to make it difficult for me.

1154
00:48:47,108 --> 00:48:50,128
Uh, and even with that, I still
enjoyed the shit out of it.

1155
00:48:50,188 --> 00:48:52,808
Like I, I, I really liked it.

1156
00:48:53,028 --> 00:48:56,788
And we have this discussion all the
time on our show, which is, well,

1157
00:48:57,888 --> 00:48:59,708
would you still be poly if you could?

1158
00:48:59,768 --> 00:49:02,508
And you know- Mm … yeah,
I, I probably would.

1159
00:49:03,028 --> 00:49:06,388
But we had to come to a consensus.

1160
00:49:06,448 --> 00:49:06,808
Mm-hmm.

1161
00:49:07,068 --> 00:49:11,917
Uh, because for me, the relationship
has always been our priority.

1162
00:49:12,188 --> 00:49:15,798
Like, that's my priority- Mm … is
our relationship over anything else.

1163
00:49:16,528 --> 00:49:24,043
And Yeah, I'm maybe more poly-hearted, and
this is the direction I'd love to be in.

1164
00:49:24,783 --> 00:49:29,283
But it's not what she wants,
and to me, that doesn't make

1165
00:49:29,344 --> 00:49:30,873
me any less non-monogamous.

1166
00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:33,880
Yeah … we're, we're still
experiencing this together, and she's

1167
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:36,500
actually making her way that way.

1168
00:49:36,780 --> 00:49:37,780
Which is incredible.

1169
00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:39,641
It's mind-blowing.

1170
00:49:39,940 --> 00:49:40,840
Um- And that's the other piece.

1171
00:49:40,901 --> 00:49:42,460
It can change over time, right?

1172
00:49:42,460 --> 00:49:42,940
That- It definitely

1173
00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:43,420
can.

1174
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:43,481
Yeah.

1175
00:49:43,500 --> 00:49:43,940
Absolutely.

1176
00:49:44,740 --> 00:49:46,940
It's hard if you feel like you
have to force yourself to change,

1177
00:49:47,061 --> 00:49:50,020
but sometimes, yeah, you can
just have different- You know-

1178
00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:51,520
life experiences that
change things for you

1179
00:49:51,581 --> 00:49:52,680
…
it, it really is.

1180
00:49:52,780 --> 00:49:56,901
And es- especially, like, talking
to people in y'all's situation,

1181
00:49:56,980 --> 00:49:59,649
you know, it's, I wanna say,
you make it look so easy.

1182
00:49:59,849 --> 00:50:01,049
I know it's not easy.

1183
00:50:01,169 --> 00:50:02,149
I know it's not easy.

1184
00:50:02,610 --> 00:50:06,716
And I know there's lots of feelings,
lots of emotions, like any relationship.

1185
00:50:07,236 --> 00:50:09,796
But I do… I get it now.

1186
00:50:10,016 --> 00:50:11,969
Like, I get it, we're swingers.

1187
00:50:12,010 --> 00:50:12,589
I love that.

1188
00:50:12,990 --> 00:50:15,180
But I guess I'm getting older,
and I'm like, yeah, I kinda

1189
00:50:15,221 --> 00:50:16,460
wanna have connections now.

1190
00:50:16,500 --> 00:50:20,641
Like- Mm … that was fun, I sh- I
probably should've had way more sex

1191
00:50:20,681 --> 00:50:23,661
in my 20s than I did, but that's okay.

1192
00:50:24,321 --> 00:50:25,041
No, but you know what?

1193
00:50:25,201 --> 00:50:27,541
I'm willing to bet that the sex that
you have right now is way better

1194
00:50:27,601 --> 00:50:29,921
than any sex you would've had- Oh,

1195
00:50:30,241 --> 00:50:30,621
for sure … in your 20s.

1196
00:50:30,621 --> 00:50:31,311
100%. It is- You just wanna jump in
and say that For sure … way better.

1197
00:50:31,501 --> 00:50:31,901
Yes.

1198
00:50:32,201 --> 00:50:33,121
Whoa.

1199
00:50:33,131 --> 00:50:34,921
Um, I know how to guide now.

1200
00:50:35,301 --> 00:50:35,431
Mm-hmm.

1201
00:50:35,431 --> 00:50:35,941
So it's, it's fun.

1202
00:50:36,281 --> 00:50:36,461
Yeah.

1203
00:50:36,481 --> 00:50:38,161
Yeah, she's- I have a, I
have a voice, you know?

1204
00:50:38,261 --> 00:50:38,621
I can say

1205
00:50:38,681 --> 00:50:38,931
what I like.

1206
00:50:38,931 --> 00:50:40,281
She's found her, her voice- Yeah.

1207
00:50:40,291 --> 00:50:40,971
… which is really cool.

1208
00:50:41,041 --> 00:50:41,611
Mm-hmm.

1209
00:50:41,611 --> 00:50:41,621
Mm-hmm.

1210
00:50:41,621 --> 00:50:44,129
'Cause when we first started in the
journey, she didn't have a voice.

1211
00:50:44,209 --> 00:50:44,388
Yeah.

1212
00:50:44,829 --> 00:50:49,696
And, it was really difficult
to have those conversations.

1213
00:50:49,736 --> 00:50:51,256
I really had to pull it out of her.

1214
00:50:51,376 --> 00:50:55,816
And so it took us several years,
and really, it took us being

1215
00:50:55,836 --> 00:50:58,076
poly to realize that we- Mm

1216
00:50:58,116 --> 00:51:01,656
were not communicating as
good- As well as we should

1217
00:51:01,716 --> 00:51:02,366
be … as we should have been.

1218
00:51:02,366 --> 00:51:02,636
Yeah.

1219
00:51:02,676 --> 00:51:03,876
Um, we thought that we
were the- That's a great

1220
00:51:03,916 --> 00:51:04,596
observation

1221
00:51:05,056 --> 00:51:07,036
…
we thought we were the
greatest communicators ever.

1222
00:51:07,636 --> 00:51:07,966
Mm-hmm.

1223
00:51:07,966 --> 00:51:14,436
And we were in this whole poly situation
and, and that's when we finally had

1224
00:51:14,496 --> 00:51:17,516
our final discussion, 'cause I always
told her, I said, "Look, if we're…

1225
00:51:17,796 --> 00:51:18,556
Just like swinging.

1226
00:51:18,736 --> 00:51:20,766
It, it… If we're gonna do this-

1227
00:51:20,856 --> 00:51:21,146
Mm-hmm

1228
00:51:21,636 --> 00:51:27,906
…
if at any point one of us feels like we
gotta pull the rip cord and I just, I

1229
00:51:27,916 --> 00:51:32,746
don't want us to do this, we can't do
this, then you just say, 'We're done,'

1230
00:51:33,656 --> 00:51:37,456
no questions asked, you know, because
my priority is the relationship."

1231
00:51:37,516 --> 00:51:37,746
Mm-hmm.

1232
00:51:38,236 --> 00:51:41,916
Um, well, she pulled the
rip cord f- for, for poly.

1233
00:51:42,576 --> 00:51:45,576
Mm. And I didn't have an issue with it.

1234
00:51:45,696 --> 00:51:49,496
I was actually kinda waiting for it,
'cause I knew it was making her unhappy.

1235
00:51:49,556 --> 00:51:49,606
Mm-hmm.

1236
00:51:50,036 --> 00:51:52,496
But I couldn't make that decision for her.

1237
00:51:52,576 --> 00:51:57,086
I needed her to voice it for me so
that we could say, "Okay. You're

1238
00:51:57,116 --> 00:51:59,816
right. Okay, let's, let's go ahead
and step back," 'cause otherwise

1239
00:51:59,836 --> 00:52:01,336
she's just doing it to make me happy.

1240
00:52:01,366 --> 00:52:01,536
Mm-hmm.

1241
00:52:01,556 --> 00:52:01,716
She's

1242
00:52:01,756 --> 00:52:02,626
doing it- Right … to make me happy.

1243
00:52:03,316 --> 00:52:03,376
Yeah.

1244
00:52:03,416 --> 00:52:07,236
So she finally found her voice after
that, and that was really cool.

1245
00:52:07,310 --> 00:52:11,164
But it kinda leads me into my
next little area there, because we

1246
00:52:11,224 --> 00:52:15,301
realized just how much I was dealing
with jealousy, as far as from her.

1247
00:52:15,391 --> 00:52:18,861
Mm. I'm not a jealous person,
uh, really, but, uh, she is.

1248
00:52:18,881 --> 00:52:19,981
She's jealous enough for both of us.

1249
00:52:21,120 --> 00:52:26,101
And, uh, that was something that we
always dealt with and, and- I never

1250
00:52:26,181 --> 00:52:30,140
cared for the villainization of jealousy.

1251
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:30,690
Yeah.

1252
00:52:30,690 --> 00:52:34,550
Um, I, I, I think that it happens way
too often, and they throw that out there.

1253
00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:36,350
It's like, "Oh, well, you're
jealous. Well, you're not,

1254
00:52:36,380 --> 00:52:37,420
you're not doing this right."

1255
00:52:38,050 --> 00:52:41,863
Mm. "You're not doing this right."
And that always kind of bugged me.

1256
00:52:42,063 --> 00:52:44,856
I, I don't view jealousy as, anything bad.

1257
00:52:44,956 --> 00:52:47,036
I think it just is
something to, to navigate.

1258
00:52:47,136 --> 00:52:48,036
You know, we're all humans.

1259
00:52:48,096 --> 00:52:54,016
But I'm curious as far as you three
and, and your experiences and what

1260
00:52:54,056 --> 00:52:57,326
you've learned throughout your
podcasting time and, and how you

1261
00:52:57,436 --> 00:53:02,516
personally handle jealousy, when it
comes to your non-monogamous journeys.

1262
00:53:03,416 --> 00:53:06,536
Well, Dedeker happens to be
writing a book on jealousy, so…

1263
00:53:06,596 --> 00:53:07,196
Yeah?

1264
00:53:08,156 --> 00:53:09,556
I'm sure it's, it's a big book.

1265
00:53:09,576 --> 00:53:09,695
It's, it's hot.

1266
00:53:09,695 --> 00:53:09,705
Is

1267
00:53:09,705 --> 00:53:10,286
it called

1268
00:53:10,316 --> 00:53:11,536
Priscilla?

1269
00:53:13,676 --> 00:53:14,286
Can you dedicate

1270
00:53:14,286 --> 00:53:14,326
it to this moment?

1271
00:53:14,326 --> 00:53:17,316
I wanna push back on your claim about
not being a jealous person, 'cause in

1272
00:53:17,396 --> 00:53:20,416
my experience, I do think jealousy--
So first of all, what the research

1273
00:53:20,436 --> 00:53:23,716
says is, yes, of course, jealousy can
fall on a spectrum personality wise.

1274
00:53:23,816 --> 00:53:26,335
However- Right … they find that jealousy
can also really fall on a spectrum

1275
00:53:26,496 --> 00:53:28,096
just based on the relationship, right?

1276
00:53:28,416 --> 00:53:32,076
Mm. So you can be, and I think we learn
this really on the ground if you're

1277
00:53:32,096 --> 00:53:34,596
in multiple romantic partnerships,
that you can have a partnership where

1278
00:53:34,636 --> 00:53:38,636
you feel extremely secure, not very
jealous at all, at the same time as

1279
00:53:38,676 --> 00:53:42,376
you're in a partnership where you feel
very insecure and very jealous, right?

1280
00:53:42,896 --> 00:53:46,616
So my thesis statement with that
is always like, like it's like

1281
00:53:46,696 --> 00:53:47,736
everybody's got their price.

1282
00:53:47,786 --> 00:53:47,796
Yeah.

1283
00:53:47,796 --> 00:53:48,656
Everybody's got something.

1284
00:53:48,996 --> 00:53:51,216
Everybody's got the right conditions.

1285
00:53:51,226 --> 00:53:51,276
Well, so, and, and,

1286
00:53:51,316 --> 00:53:51,756
you know, I-- Okay.

1287
00:53:51,876 --> 00:53:53,596
So let me get, let me… Two things.

1288
00:53:53,676 --> 00:53:53,786
Hmm.

1289
00:53:53,896 --> 00:53:54,336
Two things.

1290
00:53:54,576 --> 00:53:54,686
Okay.

1291
00:53:54,686 --> 00:53:55,076
You.

1292
00:53:55,296 --> 00:53:59,606
The first, the first thing is if, if
I really had to say that I was jealous

1293
00:53:59,636 --> 00:54:03,196
of anything, uh, I used to do stand-up
comedy when I was younger, and,

1294
00:54:03,276 --> 00:54:05,196
uh, she's my, my favorite audience.

1295
00:54:05,316 --> 00:54:06,576
Like, I love making her laugh.

1296
00:54:07,056 --> 00:54:07,066
Aw.

1297
00:54:07,076 --> 00:54:10,736
Um, so when she finds somebody
who makes her laugh, I'm like,

1298
00:54:10,786 --> 00:54:11,836
"Okay, that's good." There you go.

1299
00:54:11,836 --> 00:54:12,156
Ha ha ha.

1300
00:54:12,336 --> 00:54:12,756
See, there

1301
00:54:12,856 --> 00:54:13,196
you go.

1302
00:54:13,476 --> 00:54:13,656
That's a good idea.

1303
00:54:13,656 --> 00:54:15,976
But even then, like we, we-
Uh-huh … we laugh about it.

1304
00:54:16,036 --> 00:54:17,396
It's not very heavily rooted.

1305
00:54:17,416 --> 00:54:20,696
But the reason why, and you
can add this to your statement-

1306
00:54:21,266 --> 00:54:27,079
the reason why I, I don't experience
jealousy, very much, if at all, is

1307
00:54:27,109 --> 00:54:29,289
because I grew up in an abusive household.

1308
00:54:29,439 --> 00:54:33,119
And so I came from a
very unloved household.

1309
00:54:33,379 --> 00:54:36,239
I was never shown love
by anybody in there.

1310
00:54:36,290 --> 00:54:39,281
It was physically, mentally,
and emotionally abusive.

1311
00:54:39,343 --> 00:54:40,903
From there, I was kicked out at 17.

1312
00:54:40,983 --> 00:54:45,373
I lived out on the streets for a total
of four years by myself out of a car,

1313
00:54:45,603 --> 00:54:48,013
and, and worked at a, a barbecue shop.

1314
00:54:48,152 --> 00:54:53,382
So all of that, that whole
experience, I always felt very

1315
00:54:53,462 --> 00:54:55,862
unloved and very unwanted.

1316
00:54:56,176 --> 00:55:03,365
And to me, The ultimate look of love
is that this woman can go and enjoy-

1317
00:55:04,065 --> 00:55:04,295
Hmm

1318
00:55:04,365 --> 00:55:08,575
…
every kind of experience,
whether it be emotionally,

1319
00:55:08,575 --> 00:55:11,265
romantically, sexually, whatever.

1320
00:55:12,105 --> 00:55:17,525
And I really want her to have
a great, wonderful time because

1321
00:55:17,625 --> 00:55:18,845
she's gonna come back to me.

1322
00:55:19,005 --> 00:55:19,075
Hmm.

1323
00:55:19,075 --> 00:55:19,085
Mm-hmm.

1324
00:55:19,365 --> 00:55:20,665
And that is the- She's still

1325
00:55:20,745 --> 00:55:21,285
choosing you.

1326
00:55:21,545 --> 00:55:22,045
Exactly.

1327
00:55:22,065 --> 00:55:22,285
Yeah.

1328
00:55:22,425 --> 00:55:22,435
Mm-hmm.

1329
00:55:22,525 --> 00:55:27,065
Doesn't matter how good of a… It,
it… She could find somebody who is

1330
00:55:27,105 --> 00:55:31,265
better than me, has more money than
me- … in every single way, no matter

1331
00:55:31,305 --> 00:55:34,075
what quality, it's, is maxed out.

1332
00:55:34,845 --> 00:55:39,845
And she'll always come back to me
because that's, she chooses me,

1333
00:55:39,885 --> 00:55:42,405
and that, that to me, I, I can't…

1334
00:55:42,445 --> 00:55:43,285
How can I feel jealous, you

1335
00:55:43,285 --> 00:55:43,295
know?

1336
00:55:43,295 --> 00:55:45,225
And so he's always-
Hmm … been like that.

1337
00:55:45,445 --> 00:55:46,705
I have not.

1338
00:55:46,825 --> 00:55:47,305
No.

1339
00:55:47,965 --> 00:55:48,525
No way.

1340
00:55:48,585 --> 00:55:51,225
She's not a, a, a compersive person.

1341
00:55:51,265 --> 00:55:51,815
Would that be the word?

1342
00:55:51,845 --> 00:55:51,945
But

1343
00:55:52,085 --> 00:55:52,645
tell me- Compersive.

1344
00:55:52,655 --> 00:55:54,325
Yeah … tell me what your
thoughts are, Dedeker.

1345
00:55:55,345 --> 00:55:58,365
Well, I think, I think what you're
pointing out, Adam, makes a lot of sense.

1346
00:55:58,765 --> 00:56:02,644
Um, and yeah, this is also
supported by the research that…

1347
00:56:02,924 --> 00:56:07,005
Because I'm assuming that if,
like, whoever Pris' favorite,

1348
00:56:07,085 --> 00:56:11,505
like, really famous comedian makes
her laugh, that it doesn't make

1349
00:56:11,545 --> 00:56:13,325
you feel jealous, I'm assuming.

1350
00:56:13,385 --> 00:56:13,505
Yeah.

1351
00:56:13,545 --> 00:56:14,385
No, that's a good assumption.

1352
00:56:14,565 --> 00:56:14,925
Yeah.

1353
00:56:14,945 --> 00:56:14,955
Yeah.

1354
00:56:15,025 --> 00:56:15,175
Right?

1355
00:56:15,765 --> 00:56:16,995
But if it's someone that-

1356
00:56:17,465 --> 00:56:17,605
Like

1357
00:56:17,705 --> 00:56:19,895
local … is more… Yes, local- Right.

1358
00:56:19,895 --> 00:56:20,905
Right … that brings that up.

1359
00:56:20,965 --> 00:56:21,085
Yeah.

1360
00:56:21,115 --> 00:56:21,125
Beautiful.

1361
00:56:21,125 --> 00:56:22,535
And yeah, the research- Yeah.

1362
00:56:22,535 --> 00:56:23,625
Yes, the research supports that.

1363
00:56:23,665 --> 00:56:27,805
That, that it's basically the closer
we perceive someone to be similar to

1364
00:56:27,905 --> 00:56:34,495
us in whatever way- Mm … physically,
socioeconomic status, profession,

1365
00:56:35,245 --> 00:56:40,685
the more likely that we're gonna feel
jealousy rather than admiration, right?

1366
00:56:40,925 --> 00:56:41,845
Or a sense of respect.

1367
00:56:42,335 --> 00:56:46,005
So it's like similarity because from
an evolutionary perspective, it's

1368
00:56:46,045 --> 00:56:48,705
like, "Hey, this person is similar
to me. I should be able to get the

1369
00:56:48,745 --> 00:56:51,245
same things that they're getting.
Why am I not getting that?" Right?

1370
00:56:51,285 --> 00:56:51,385
Hmm.

1371
00:56:51,445 --> 00:56:54,405
That, and that's where it gets
encoded in our nervous systems.

1372
00:56:54,725 --> 00:56:56,125
So like, totally makes sense.

1373
00:56:56,425 --> 00:56:56,545
Uh-huh.

1374
00:56:56,645 --> 00:57:01,125
But that's why I'm pointing out the fact
that, like, everyone has their conditions

1375
00:57:01,135 --> 00:57:04,025
that can create- Uh-huh … jealousy and
insecurity, but that also means everyone

1376
00:57:04,085 --> 00:57:09,645
has their conditions that can create a
sense of deep security and safety, right?

1377
00:57:09,745 --> 00:57:09,905
Yeah.

1378
00:57:09,945 --> 00:57:13,105
So, so for me, it's like, yeah, I
do think that, like, we can have

1379
00:57:13,165 --> 00:57:17,965
individual differences personality
wise that can make us more prone

1380
00:57:18,005 --> 00:57:20,065
to jealousy or not to jealousy.

1381
00:57:20,165 --> 00:57:24,905
However, I think it's much more
important to look at our context of, of

1382
00:57:24,945 --> 00:57:27,295
what we're in, because I think that's
gonna be the biggest predictor of

1383
00:57:27,325 --> 00:57:28,745
whether or not you feel jealous or not.

1384
00:57:28,785 --> 00:57:35,357
Like, I'm saying all of this to,
like- remove the way that we can

1385
00:57:35,417 --> 00:57:38,837
kinda give ourselves a hard time and
feel like, "Oh, this is all my fault.

1386
00:57:38,937 --> 00:57:40,156
This is all a personal failing.

1387
00:57:40,217 --> 00:57:42,597
Like, I just need to work on
myself more," or, "I need to

1388
00:57:42,617 --> 00:57:44,017
be more enlightened," right?

1389
00:57:44,037 --> 00:57:44,067
Yeah.

1390
00:57:44,067 --> 00:57:44,117
Yeah.

1391
00:57:44,457 --> 00:57:48,117
It's pretty much n- it's pretty much
never 100%, "Oh, this is just your

1392
00:57:48,157 --> 00:57:51,057
problem to solve," and it's also pretty
much never 100%, "This is all your

1393
00:57:51,097 --> 00:57:53,257
partner's problem to solve," right?

1394
00:57:53,337 --> 00:57:55,387
It's, it's always somewhere
in the middle there.

1395
00:57:55,697 --> 00:57:58,597
That's, that's one of my many thoughts.

1396
00:57:59,597 --> 00:58:01,117
And I, and I agree.

1397
00:58:01,257 --> 00:58:05,757
I, um, but I had to learn that on my own.

1398
00:58:05,857 --> 00:58:10,917
Mm. You know, that h- if I didn't
tell him what was making me

1399
00:58:11,057 --> 00:58:12,617
jealous, he was never gonna know.

1400
00:58:12,867 --> 00:58:13,997
Mm. It was gonna keep happening.

1401
00:58:14,557 --> 00:58:17,357
So I had to at least give
him that part, you know?

1402
00:58:17,417 --> 00:58:19,177
And we would meet in the middle.

1403
00:58:19,537 --> 00:58:19,867
Yeah, we've

1404
00:58:19,877 --> 00:58:20,227
always been able to meet in the middle.

1405
00:58:20,227 --> 00:58:20,777
And it's gotten better.

1406
00:58:20,957 --> 00:58:23,487
Now I can tell him exactly
what makes me jealous.

1407
00:58:23,497 --> 00:58:23,917
Mm-hmm.

1408
00:58:23,987 --> 00:58:24,417
And it could be-

1409
00:58:24,517 --> 00:58:24,737
Good

1410
00:58:25,037 --> 00:58:26,677
…
the silliest thing, but-

1411
00:58:26,937 --> 00:58:27,837
It comes out on the show

1412
00:58:27,907 --> 00:58:28,757
…
and I tell him.

1413
00:58:28,817 --> 00:58:33,567
I'm like, "Look, this sounds really
dumb, but I didn't like what that

1414
00:58:34,037 --> 00:58:36,497
girl was saying to you, so I don't
want you talking to her when we

1415
00:58:36,537 --> 00:58:37,717
go to the meet and greet, okay?"

1416
00:58:37,787 --> 00:58:39,677
And he's like, "All right. That's fine."

1417
00:58:39,737 --> 00:58:42,097
And I'm not a controlling
person- … so that's why you g- I

1418
00:58:42,137 --> 00:58:44,897
was laughing when, when you guys say
all three of y'all are controlling.

1419
00:58:44,927 --> 00:58:44,937
Yeah.

1420
00:58:44,937 --> 00:58:46,137
And she's controlling.

1421
00:58:46,197 --> 00:58:48,427
In, in a room of all poly people.

1422
00:58:48,427 --> 00:58:49,077
So it's four against one

1423
00:58:49,117 --> 00:58:49,357
is what

1424
00:58:49,397 --> 00:58:49,707
you're saying.

1425
00:58:49,707 --> 00:58:49,897
Oh, yeah.

1426
00:58:50,257 --> 00:58:53,307
So, so basically you guys figure
out where we're having dinner later-

1427
00:58:53,747 --> 00:58:55,057
because I don't care.

1428
00:58:55,137 --> 00:58:55,667
I'll eat wherever.

1429
00:58:55,697 --> 00:58:59,057
Mm. Uh, I, you know, I just kind of,
for the most part, go with the flow,

1430
00:58:59,137 --> 00:59:03,257
but she knows that if I push back,
that it's something very serious to me.

1431
00:59:03,667 --> 00:59:03,677
Totally.

1432
00:59:03,677 --> 00:59:07,637
Mm. Um, and, you know, there's,
my thing is, is I don't like to

1433
00:59:07,677 --> 00:59:09,487
be made to feel like a child.

1434
00:59:09,847 --> 00:59:13,376
Mm. Um, and so, you know, I,
I give her the respect of,

1435
00:59:13,610 --> 00:59:15,350
almost in a sense of ownership.

1436
00:59:15,570 --> 00:59:18,890
Like, we know that we don't own each
other even though we're married.

1437
00:59:19,430 --> 00:59:22,709
W- we give each other that,
that respect, that title.

1438
00:59:22,879 --> 00:59:23,119
Mm-hmm.

1439
00:59:23,179 --> 00:59:27,859
So yeah, she says that, well, I, I
tell him, "You're not gonna do this,"

1440
00:59:27,879 --> 00:59:29,799
and it sounds very controlling.

1441
00:59:30,449 --> 00:59:35,899
Um, but realistically if I,
if I spoke up and I f- I- Yeah

1442
00:59:35,909 --> 00:59:38,479
pushed against it, it,
it would be a non-issue.

1443
00:59:38,699 --> 00:59:38,859
Yeah.

1444
00:59:38,902 --> 00:59:40,951
It's just one of those things
that we've always had that.

1445
00:59:41,011 --> 00:59:44,191
And I know not everybody
really adheres to that.

1446
00:59:44,411 --> 00:59:44,531
No.

1447
00:59:44,591 --> 00:59:45,101
But, uh-

1448
00:59:45,171 --> 00:59:45,571
Mm.

1449
00:59:46,031 --> 00:59:46,551
I don't know.

1450
00:59:46,591 --> 00:59:47,031
That's us.

1451
00:59:48,231 --> 00:59:51,361
I feel like I could take, like, another
hour of your time, and I don't wanna do

1452
00:59:51,391 --> 00:59:52,731
that 'cause I know you guys are busy.

1453
00:59:53,111 --> 00:59:59,212
So anyways, guys, before we let you
go, tell everybody where we can find

1454
00:59:59,232 --> 01:00:01,091
you, podcast, social, all of that.

1455
01:00:01,171 --> 01:00:04,948
It, it, whatever you can put out here,
but if you wouldn't mind plugging you

1456
01:00:05,659 --> 01:00:06,439
Absolutely.

1457
01:00:06,539 --> 01:00:11,059
Uh, so Multiamory, you can find us
wherever you listen to podcasts,

1458
01:00:11,119 --> 01:00:15,499
whether that's Spotify, Apple
Podcasts, wherever, uh, Google Play.

1459
01:00:15,559 --> 01:00:16,499
I don't know what else.

1460
01:00:16,539 --> 01:00:18,099
We're on YouTube as well.

1461
01:00:18,139 --> 01:00:23,339
Our Instagram is multiamory_podcast,
and you can join our Supercast

1462
01:00:23,359 --> 01:00:26,979
community as well by going there
and looking up Multiamory Podcast.

1463
01:00:27,669 --> 01:00:28,729
Really just search Multiamory.

1464
01:00:28,779 --> 01:00:29,279
You'll find us

1465
01:00:29,399 --> 01:00:29,799
all over the place.

1466
01:00:29,819 --> 01:00:29,829
Yeah.

1467
01:00:29,879 --> 01:00:31,558
Oh, and wait, we also have a book.

1468
01:00:31,779 --> 01:00:32,619
It's behind me.

1469
01:00:32,659 --> 01:00:32,709
Yeah.

1470
01:00:33,059 --> 01:00:36,859
And I did the audiobook- Yeah … so I
have to plug it because of that as well.

1471
01:00:36,939 --> 01:00:39,999
Um, but that's, yeah, wherever
you wanna find a book.

1472
01:00:40,199 --> 01:00:43,539
Sometimes you can wander into a local
bookstore and find it there as well.

1473
01:00:43,999 --> 01:00:44,829
And then also- Or you can request it

1474
01:00:44,959 --> 01:00:45,418
at your local bookstore.

1475
01:00:45,418 --> 01:00:46,079
It's available

1476
01:00:46,139 --> 01:00:46,339
on

1477
01:00:46,399 --> 01:00:46,859
Audible,

1478
01:00:46,979 --> 01:00:47,459
people.

1479
01:00:47,709 --> 01:00:47,909
Yes, there you go.

1480
01:00:47,909 --> 01:00:48,209
It's on Audible.

1481
01:00:48,209 --> 01:00:48,679
And on Audible.

1482
01:00:49,299 --> 01:00:49,699
She's the author.

1483
01:00:49,699 --> 01:00:52,699
Uh, yours truly is the one who did
the audiobook, so there you go.

1484
01:00:53,119 --> 01:00:53,399
Beautiful

1485
01:00:53,499 --> 01:00:53,779
voice.

1486
01:00:54,019 --> 01:00:57,299
You can specifically- Thank you
… request it at your library as well.

1487
01:00:57,549 --> 01:01:00,159
If you'd rather not buy books-
Oh … you can request it.

1488
01:01:00,359 --> 01:01:03,259
Um, our library has a few
copies in stock now actually

1489
01:01:03,299 --> 01:01:03,639
but real quick,

1490
01:01:03,719 --> 01:01:04,349
what's happening?

1491
01:01:04,419 --> 01:01:05,139
Like, what are y'all doing?

1492
01:01:05,199 --> 01:01:07,299
You said, Dedeker, are
you, you're writing a book.

1493
01:01:08,559 --> 01:01:09,199
I am.

1494
01:01:09,239 --> 01:01:11,539
The, it's currently out on
submission, so- Okay … I'm in

1495
01:01:11,579 --> 01:01:14,179
the, like, limbo of waiting to see
if a publisher's gonna pick it up.

1496
01:01:14,239 --> 01:01:17,009
So, so no one can really support
it right now other than just- Okay

1497
01:01:17,009 --> 01:01:20,229
like manifesting and praying- Yeah
… and, like, lighting, lighting candles-

1498
01:01:20,359 --> 01:01:23,619
Yeah … and incense to make sure that I
get, like, a really good chunky book deal.

1499
01:01:24,099 --> 01:01:24,539
Okay.

1500
01:01:25,219 --> 01:01:26,799
Hey, she comes- That's what's
going on with me … she comes

1501
01:01:26,839 --> 01:01:29,309
from that family background, so-
Okay … watch out now … all good.

1502
01:01:29,309 --> 01:01:29,459
All good.

1503
01:01:29,479 --> 01:01:30,879
The candles will get lit.

1504
01:01:30,889 --> 01:01:31,729
Thank you.

1505
01:01:31,739 --> 01:01:31,909
Good.

1506
01:01:31,909 --> 01:01:31,939
Good.

1507
01:01:32,019 --> 01:01:32,299
Thank

1508
01:01:32,339 --> 01:01:32,369
you.

1509
01:01:32,369 --> 01:01:32,599
You need

1510
01:01:32,619 --> 01:01:32,659
it.

1511
01:01:32,729 --> 01:01:32,739
Yeah.

1512
01:01:32,739 --> 01:01:33,738
You guys are awesome.

1513
01:01:33,799 --> 01:01:37,738
Well, all of that is gonna go into the
show notes, so nobody has any excuses.

1514
01:01:37,779 --> 01:01:38,999
We're gonna have everything there.

1515
01:01:39,039 --> 01:01:39,179
Yeah.

1516
01:01:39,239 --> 01:01:44,278
Uh, if any part of this conversation
hit home, go find Multiamory right now.

1517
01:01:44,319 --> 01:01:46,248
And if you're someone who was out here

1518
01:01:46,329 --> 01:01:49,429
in 2016 just trying to figure
this stuff out with nobody

1519
01:01:49,469 --> 01:01:51,489
helping you, you're welcome.

1520
01:01:51,529 --> 01:01:54,389
This is the episode that
we needed back then, so.

1521
01:01:54,469 --> 01:01:54,869
Yes, for sure.

1522
01:01:54,989 --> 01:01:56,719
Yeah, you can, you can
definitely enjoy that one.

1523
01:01:56,959 --> 01:01:57,069
Yeah.

1524
01:01:57,129 --> 01:02:02,109
As always, you can find us and all of
our episodes at beyond-monogamy.com.

1525
01:02:02,229 --> 01:02:07,149
If you wanna hang with us live, we're
on fullswapradio.com every Thursday

1526
01:02:07,169 --> 01:02:08,779
at 2:00 PM and 7:00 PM Central.

1527
01:02:09,189 --> 01:02:09,749
Come hang out.

1528
01:02:09,829 --> 01:02:11,239
It is always a good time.

1529
01:02:11,829 --> 01:02:14,519
And don't forget to mark your
calendars for our upcoming Beyond

1530
01:02:14,569 --> 01:02:18,439
Monogamy event at Club Eden in San
Antonio- Mm-hmm … on June 20th.

1531
01:02:19,196 --> 01:02:22,796
And remember, you must purchase
a membership to the social

1532
01:02:22,857 --> 01:02:24,296
club in order to attend.

1533
01:02:24,396 --> 01:02:27,276
We would love to hang out with
you, but like I said, you gotta,

1534
01:02:27,537 --> 01:02:28,596
you gotta get that membership.

1535
01:02:29,276 --> 01:02:33,716
Uh, also Crazy Winter Nights in
Kansas City, February 19th through

1536
01:02:33,776 --> 01:02:36,936
the 21st of 2027, we will be there.

1537
01:02:37,377 --> 01:02:40,576
Use our code BEYOMONO when
you register for a discount.

1538
01:02:41,797 --> 01:02:45,037
And we're going to be at Naughty
N'awlins, people, this July 8th

1539
01:02:45,056 --> 01:02:46,676
through the 12th in New Orleans.

1540
01:02:46,696 --> 01:02:47,336
Come find us.

1541
01:02:47,377 --> 01:02:49,136
We will have a Beyond Monogamy booth.

1542
01:02:49,457 --> 01:02:51,776
We'd love to meet you in person.

1543
01:02:52,016 --> 01:02:52,296
Yeah.

1544
01:02:53,016 --> 01:02:55,696
And if this episode meant
something to you, share it.

1545
01:02:56,016 --> 01:02:57,476
Send it to a friend who needs it.

1546
01:02:57,617 --> 01:03:00,876
Leave us a review because
you frigging love us, man.

1547
01:03:00,896 --> 01:03:01,656
You know you do.

1548
01:03:02,157 --> 01:03:03,636
Subscribe if you haven't already.

1549
01:03:03,696 --> 01:03:08,576
Every single one of those things helps
keep us doing what we do, and we get to

1550
01:03:08,596 --> 01:03:12,196
reach more people who are out there trying
to figure this stuff out just like you.

1551
01:03:12,236 --> 01:03:13,156
We see you.

1552
01:03:13,196 --> 01:03:13,206
Yes.

1553
01:03:13,216 --> 01:03:13,856
We were you.

1554
01:03:14,236 --> 01:03:14,496
Yes.

1555
01:03:14,916 --> 01:03:17,896
And with that, we thank all of you
for joining us for another episode,

1556
01:03:17,976 --> 01:03:19,716
and we will see you next week.

1557
01:03:19,976 --> 01:03:20,776
Bye.