Nina Hartley on Pleasure as a Birthright, Gang Bang Planning & 40 Years of Living Non-Monogamously

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Alright y'all, before we
dive in, a quick heads up.

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This show is raw, real, and
definitely not rated pg.

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We're talking about adult themes, sexual
content, and the kind of stuff you

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probably don't want blasting through your
speakers at work or around your kits.

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So grab some headphones, pour your
drink of choice and get comfy.

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Oh, and just so we're clear, we are not
licensed therapists, counselors, or sex.

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Couches.

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Sex coaches.

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Sex coaches,

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not sex couches

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or just a couple of people sharing our
lives, experiences and sexy adventures.

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An ethical non-monogamy.

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So with that, pull up a
chair and enjoy the show.

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And.

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Hello, and welcome to another
episode of Beyond Monogamy.

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I'm Adam.

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And I'm Pris.

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And babe, I've been waiting
for this one all week,

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right?

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Today I need everybody to
stop what they're doing.

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Put both hands on the wheel.

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If you're driving, pull over if you have
to, because this episode, episode is

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not one you wanna be distracted during.

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We have an absolute legend
in the building, and I

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don't use that word lightly.

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We're talking about someone
who has spent decades.

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Decades.

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Not just living an open,
intentional sex positive life,

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but educating people about it.

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Someone who has been a voice for
pleasure, for consent, for honest

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human connection, long before any of
this had a catchy name or a subreddit.

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Yeah.

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She's literally been doing
this longer than north of our

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listeners have been alive.

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So yeah, guys

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pretty cool.

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And she has never backed
down, never apologized, never

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shook herself for anybody.

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I have so much respect for this woman.

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Same.

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So, uh, before you go any further
though, I do need you to do a few things.

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Go to www.beyondremy.com.

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That is our home base.

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That's where you're gonna find every
episode that we've ever dropped.

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Video clips, blog posts, our events tab.

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Mm-hmm.

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Our guest bios, merch, all of it.

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My personal favorites is that
hundred percent beyond confessional.

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It's completely anonymous.

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Something off your chest.

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Just go drop it.

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Okay?

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Yes.

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Uh, and also subscribe.

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We're gonna get into later.

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I cannot, I can't talk anymore because I
have not Welcome our wonderful guest, uh,

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Nina Hartley, please welcome to the show.

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Yes, thank you.

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Well, thank you.

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I hope I live up to that, uh, fabulous,
uh, intro, but it's always good.

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This is my favorite topic.

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I'm so glad that it's getting more
airtime, that's getting more, uh,

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supported podcast like yours, uh,
that more people are talking about

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it, more people are living it
and making community around this

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particular, um, uh, relationship style.

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It is pretty great.

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Yeah.

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You know, I, uh, I'll be honest with
you, initially when I, I knew you

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from, uh, your film work, uh, but.

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We are not actually here to talk about
that because as I learned more about you,

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I realized, wow, you are lifestyle full.

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You are

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and through

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amazing.

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Thank you.

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No, I

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lady, you have done so much for us.

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Thank

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you.

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Don't,

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it's been my, it's been my pleasure.

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You know, it goes back to what I
was before I knew what sex was.

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I never dreamt of him.

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I always dreamt of them, you know, the,
you know, room full of naked people.

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Yeah.

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And I was like, middle school and I just,
I didn't have the word queer then, or

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pansexual, or polyamorous, but I just
knew that I wasn't like other people.

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I never dreamt of him.

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Like that's

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amazing.

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And I was younger, you know, why,
why do I only get all the movies?

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Right?

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Um, uh, the, you know, they
have, she has to choose.

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She has to choose.

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And, and I didn't even know
what sex was, but I recognized,

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wait, the guys like each other.

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They each like her.

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She likes them.

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And I just knew that any one woman could.

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Easily take care of any two men.

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So why couldn't they all live together?

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I didn't see the problem.

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Um, and this is way back in
the way back machine, right?

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So it's never made compulsory
monogamy has never made sense to me.

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Well, so I, I, I do wanna go way back
because I, what I found interesting

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was, um, you know, you started in the
swinging communities as a 22-year-old,

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uh, which I found really fascinating
'cause I've always said that it takes

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a major emotional maturity, uh, to be a
part of this community and to do it well.

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Um, um, did you have any
issues, like jumping into it?

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Like did you feel like
you were right there?

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Was it something that you were kind of
like a, a work in progress for a long

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time?

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I mean, one of the
reasons I picked my first.

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My, well, my second boyfriend.

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Um, so I've, I've never, I've
never been successfully monogamous.

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I've never been single.

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Um, so I have, you know, other issues.

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I've always overlapped relationships.

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So that's a whole other chapter,
you know, between me and Dr. Freud.

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Um, but, uh, I was always the
youngest person in the, in the

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eighties when I was swinging.

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I was always the youngest person
in the room by at least 15 years.

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Uh, most swingers in that era
were 40 plus, you know, they had

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finally gotten around to swinging.

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Um, and so I was always a
bit of a unicorn that way.

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Uh, and I was living in a triad
relationship, uh, from a very early age.

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And we broke up, not because it was three
people, but I picked the wrong two people.

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You know, it was very, the relationship.

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Underneath was very toxic, um,
emotionally, but I was attracted to them

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because he was an out non-monogamous.

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And I met his girlfriend right away.

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She was very supportive.

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Um, I realize now enabling, but she
was very supportive and welcoming

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and I'd always wanted that life.

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And I was young, too young to know that
there were other versions of that life.

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So I, I hooked up with the first open
couple that I met, who, who was an

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out who, who were out as o as open.

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And I did, I was too young and
inexperienced to recognize any kind

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of red flags as to narcissistic
abuse and all the things that young

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people are, are susceptible to.

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So I, I, but I never, ever, ever doubted
the fact that I am not a, so if I

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had, when I was eight, by the time I
was 14, I'd seen the words, bisexual,

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exhibitionist, voyeur, nudist and swinger.

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And I knew, although all those
apply to me, and if I was.

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18-year-old now, or 15-year-old
now, I would, I would identify

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as pan poly, queer, kinky, and
probably non-binary or a, a gender.

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I don't feel like a girl or like a boy.

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I recognize I'm cisgender.

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I never wanted to change
my, my presentation.

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I get that.

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I'm a, I'm a girl, but I never
felt like a girl because I, I'm

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child free and happy for it.

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Never had a moment worry about,
you know, what have I done?

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It's like, no, every day
wake up without a child.

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It's like, yeah, still the, still a
good thing that I don't have kids.

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Right.

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Um, and I'm, I'm, I'm a child.

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I'm a child free woman who
loves children, but I don't have

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what it takes to be a mother.

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And I knew that as soon as ro I was 14
when Roe v Wade was, was finally ruled.

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And I recognized then how I
knew already was very important.

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Um, and I, I kept waiting
to wanna be a mom.

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Never happened.

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So.

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They forgot to wind my
clock at the factory.

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Right.

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That biological clock.

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There's a lot of people that are
parents that shouldn't have been.

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Yes.

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We wish that they had

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the parents of both of my exes.

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Yeah.

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There you go.

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I, you know, my, our parents, you know,
we've, we've always said like, our

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parents should have never been parents.

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Like we, we come from very
traumatic backgrounds, you know?

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Yeah.

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And so it was something
that we've always said.

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It's just one of those things.

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It's like sometimes some people just
need to say, nah, it's not for me.

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Now I was reading, reading a little
bit about your like bio, um, do

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I know how you live your life?

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And you lived it like that, very young.

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And apparently your parents were
kind of very freeish as well.

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They were different.

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They were, they were, um, uh.

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Left wing, um, politically
active in the civil rights era.

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My father was blacklisted in 1957,
um, for being a communist, and

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that's, I was right before I was
born, but, um, that sort of threw

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the family, uh, into a, uh, different
direction, for lack of a better word.

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Yeah.

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Um, and they tried all kinds
of things in the sixties.

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They tried, uh, any, every
variation of therapy out there.

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But the one that really stuck
with me was Ian Therapy.

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Um, and I discovered they were doing
that when I got, I got about eight and

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that's when I heard the word body armor
and recognized that I had body armor.

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Um, so a lot of wor a lot of things now
because of the mental health awareness.

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I'm going on to lots of more dis this more
discussion now about, um, neurodivergency.

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I'm definitely neurodivergent for sure.

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Um mm-hmm.

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As well as queer and
kinky and all the things.

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Um, and.

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I recognize now I had emia,
which is being, not knowing

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what, what are you feeling?

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And, and so there's all kinds of
information coming out now that I can,

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I can backtrack and go, oh my gosh.

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Oh my gosh.

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Oh my gosh.

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Isn't, it's, it is amazing.

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I'm very happy.

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I I, I, I got diagnosed a
DHD about two years ago and

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I was 60.

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Wow.

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Wow.

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And I told Adam, I was like, man,
if, had I gotten diagnosed when I was

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younger, of course my parents thought
it was just actually just laziness.

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But if had I got diagnosed back
then, I could have been amazing.

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I was like,

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yeah,

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you're so smart.

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Why don't you try harder?

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Yeah.

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I, I heard that too.

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Yeah.

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You know, my, my parents didn't
say anything about anything.

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Um, they were too busy and someone that
was 10 years old, they found Zen Buddhism.

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And that was, um.

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The savior of them.

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And, and actually I'm quite
grateful because of the time and

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place they could have found est,
they could have found Scientology,

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they could have found Har Krishna.

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Uh, they could have very, so they,
I thank God they found San Buddhism

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because it is rigorous, but it doesn't
permit proselytization proselytizing.

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So they exposed me to it
because I'm around it.

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But they never said, you
have to do these things.

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And I'm very grateful for that actually.

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What is that?

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What is proselytizing?

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Come, come join our church.

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This is really great.

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Oh, okay.

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You should come listen, come,
come, come, come to a talk.

243
00:10:18,490 --> 00:10:21,790
Come to just, you know, basically what,
what Christians are, are told to do.

244
00:10:22,030 --> 00:10:22,360
Right?

245
00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:24,490
Go, go spread the good news,
bring people to the church.

246
00:10:24,790 --> 00:10:27,160
Oh, um, what the mission, what
the Mormon missions are all about.

247
00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:27,520
Right?

248
00:10:27,940 --> 00:10:32,560
So, of all, and so what of all
the religions Zen does not seek.

249
00:10:32,560 --> 00:10:33,970
Recruit does not recruit people.

250
00:10:34,030 --> 00:10:37,000
You, when you suffer enough, you
find your way to Zen Buddhism.

251
00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:39,190
And until you suffer enough,
it holds zero interest.

252
00:10:39,690 --> 00:10:39,910
Wow.

253
00:10:40,605 --> 00:10:41,955
Because it's very, very rigorous.

254
00:10:42,285 --> 00:10:42,615
Right.

255
00:10:42,945 --> 00:10:47,355
Um, and, uh, it is very, very,
very personally demanding.

256
00:10:47,685 --> 00:10:50,955
Um, and so only people are super
serious about the spiritual growth.

257
00:10:50,955 --> 00:10:53,895
Will ever do zen in any kind of real way?

258
00:10:53,985 --> 00:10:54,945
That much I know.

259
00:10:55,445 --> 00:10:55,595
Well,

260
00:10:55,895 --> 00:11:00,605
you know, I, I had looked into, uh,
Buddhism, but I have a, I guess a lot of,

261
00:11:00,965 --> 00:11:08,235
um, unresolved anger from my past that
I found really difficult to, like, I, I.

262
00:11:08,930 --> 00:11:10,910
I refuse to forgive certain people.

263
00:11:11,510 --> 00:11:16,600
And I was like, God, that's direct
conflict of, you know, like, I

264
00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:19,720
didn't think that I, I I could take
part in such a beautiful thing.

265
00:11:19,725 --> 00:11:19,935
Mm-hmm.

266
00:11:20,020 --> 00:11:22,090
Because I just, I feel like
there's still something there.

267
00:11:22,330 --> 00:11:23,920
Zen folk are full of anger.

268
00:11:23,925 --> 00:11:28,450
So, so the thing about, no, the, the thing
about the thing about Zen, it's not about,

269
00:11:28,510 --> 00:11:30,250
it's becoming aware of your own mind.

270
00:11:30,580 --> 00:11:34,480
So zen meditation, meditation is
not, meditation is not about clearing

271
00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:36,100
your mind or calming your mind.

272
00:11:36,100 --> 00:11:37,210
You're emptying your mind.

273
00:11:37,210 --> 00:11:41,320
It's becoming aware of, aware
of your mind as a a thing.

274
00:11:42,220 --> 00:11:46,690
So in zen, so think about, so they
talk about, you know, thought feelings

275
00:11:46,690 --> 00:11:48,550
are like bubbles, uh, sifo, right?

276
00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:52,690
So do, uh, you know, popcorn, poppers,
pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop.

277
00:11:52,750 --> 00:11:53,050
Yeah.

278
00:11:53,230 --> 00:11:54,880
So our brains make thoughts.

279
00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:56,050
That's what brains do.

280
00:11:56,170 --> 00:11:56,860
That's what they do.

281
00:11:56,860 --> 00:11:57,910
So, thought, thought, thought,
thought, thought, thought,

282
00:11:57,910 --> 00:11:58,270
thought, thought, thought.

283
00:11:58,540 --> 00:12:02,680
What humans do because of conditioning
is take that piece of popcorn and that

284
00:12:02,680 --> 00:12:04,300
piece of popcorn go, these are true.

285
00:12:04,630 --> 00:12:05,650
This is real.

286
00:12:06,325 --> 00:12:09,085
And ignoring all the other pieces of
popcorn that might have a different

287
00:12:09,085 --> 00:12:10,195
thought or a different meaning.

288
00:12:10,195 --> 00:12:10,885
So we clinging.

289
00:12:10,885 --> 00:12:14,065
So in Buddhism, suffering is
caused by greed, hate and desire.

290
00:12:14,065 --> 00:12:14,845
We clinging to it.

291
00:12:14,845 --> 00:12:16,195
We clinging to our identity as victim.

292
00:12:16,195 --> 00:12:20,395
We clinging to our identity as wow,
as, um, better than we clinging to

293
00:12:20,395 --> 00:12:22,825
our identity as a successful CEO.

294
00:12:22,825 --> 00:12:24,685
Whatever I, our identity
is, we cling to it.

295
00:12:24,685 --> 00:12:25,825
We, we clinging to it.

296
00:12:25,825 --> 00:12:25,885
Ugh.

297
00:12:26,385 --> 00:12:26,445
Ugh.

298
00:12:27,105 --> 00:12:28,875
That is a state of suffering.

299
00:12:28,875 --> 00:12:30,645
So suffering, pain is inevitable.

300
00:12:30,645 --> 00:12:31,665
Suffering is what we do.

301
00:12:32,505 --> 00:12:36,345
Suffering is an action we take with
our minds against ourselves usually.

302
00:12:37,005 --> 00:12:38,445
But pain, pain is inevitable.

303
00:12:38,505 --> 00:12:39,645
We're gonna, we're gonna have loss.

304
00:12:39,645 --> 00:12:41,085
We're going to stu, our toe

305
00:12:41,085 --> 00:12:41,445
enemy.

306
00:12:41,805 --> 00:12:45,495
Um, and so with Zen, you don't,
you don't, you just observe.

307
00:12:45,495 --> 00:12:46,695
Oh, hello, mind.

308
00:12:47,085 --> 00:12:47,655
You can sit.

309
00:12:47,895 --> 00:12:50,025
So zen meditation is
called sitting meditation.

310
00:12:50,025 --> 00:12:52,725
You sit still with your eyes, downcast.

311
00:12:53,490 --> 00:12:55,290
You sit still for 40 minutes.

312
00:12:55,410 --> 00:12:57,540
You, you just, you just sit.

313
00:12:58,170 --> 00:13:00,930
Now when you know that there is a
significant number of people who

314
00:13:00,930 --> 00:13:04,380
would rather shock themselves with
electricity than be 15 minutes

315
00:13:04,380 --> 00:13:06,470
without their devices people.

316
00:13:06,710 --> 00:13:10,400
So, so it is very, when we hate
ourselves, when we are in a lot of

317
00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:15,980
distress due to our history, nothing
is more painful than just sitting still

318
00:13:15,980 --> 00:13:17,870
and watching our mind do its thing.

319
00:13:18,260 --> 00:13:21,110
So you can start the meditation in
a perfectly good mood and come out

320
00:13:21,110 --> 00:13:23,540
the other end of the meditation
in a completely different mood.

321
00:13:23,665 --> 00:13:26,330
And, and all you did was
sit still and see your mind.

322
00:13:26,330 --> 00:13:30,830
How it does it sinks how our condition
mind tells us about the world, tells us

323
00:13:30,830 --> 00:13:34,760
about ourselves, tells us how it should
be and how far away we are from it.

324
00:13:35,300 --> 00:13:35,540
So

325
00:13:35,570 --> 00:13:40,730
that, that knowing who you
are really brings you to where

326
00:13:40,730 --> 00:13:43,250
you have, where you're at now.

327
00:13:43,250 --> 00:13:45,180
I mean, it takes a lot of.

328
00:13:45,680 --> 00:13:49,370
That, especially like say for me, a person
just who doesn't know how to meditate

329
00:13:49,370 --> 00:13:50,960
or just never done anything like that.

330
00:13:51,460 --> 00:13:56,080
The, the fact that you started in
Buddhism so young that mine just

331
00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:58,420
kept growing into that positivity,

332
00:13:59,020 --> 00:14:01,300
which is not, it's, it's
not so much positivity.

333
00:14:01,300 --> 00:14:04,420
And my parents, my parents didn't make
me do any of this, but I, it, of, of the

334
00:14:04,420 --> 00:14:07,870
philosophies, I like it the best because
you don't, you don't believe anything.

335
00:14:08,170 --> 00:14:09,430
You don't believe in Buddhism.

336
00:14:09,430 --> 00:14:11,080
You practice Buddhist principles.

337
00:14:11,410 --> 00:14:12,550
So it's all about practice.

338
00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:14,140
It's all about mindfulness.

339
00:14:14,590 --> 00:14:18,040
So our body, this is why, this is why
I say this is why sex and sexuality is

340
00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:20,680
so, such a potent, um, healing force.

341
00:14:20,710 --> 00:14:24,790
Because our, because of the nature
of mind, we can go into the past and,

342
00:14:24,850 --> 00:14:27,040
and be depressed about what happened.

343
00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:29,140
We can go into the future and be
anxious about what, what might

344
00:14:29,140 --> 00:14:31,300
happen because our mind, our minds
could be everywhere all at once.

345
00:14:31,300 --> 00:14:34,600
Our body is stuck in
meat space right here.

346
00:14:35,095 --> 00:14:36,235
It cannot go anywhere.

347
00:14:36,415 --> 00:14:37,495
It suffers right now.

348
00:14:37,945 --> 00:14:42,475
So with mindfulness, you bring your
mind into where your body is right

349
00:14:42,475 --> 00:14:44,635
now, meditating, walking, cooking.

350
00:14:44,965 --> 00:14:49,555
So if you're cook, cooking, cooking, food,
just chop vegetables, just wash dishes,

351
00:14:49,885 --> 00:14:51,835
just do what you're doing and don't.

352
00:14:52,105 --> 00:14:52,555
Mm-hmm.

353
00:14:53,125 --> 00:15:00,385
So sex is great because pleasure
is in the body, and so as we, we.

354
00:15:00,885 --> 00:15:04,965
Wire or re rewe our relationship
to pleasure as we claim

355
00:15:04,965 --> 00:15:05,895
pleasure for ourselves.

356
00:15:06,075 --> 00:15:08,685
I'm alone in a room not hurting anybody.

357
00:15:08,895 --> 00:15:12,645
I'm gonna put my hand between my legs, and
then all your shit comes up, all the fear,

358
00:15:12,645 --> 00:15:15,915
all the anger, all the distress of what
happened, all the things, all the stories.

359
00:15:16,245 --> 00:15:16,965
All the things.

360
00:15:17,325 --> 00:15:22,305
And so your body wants the pleasure and
your mind goes no, and throws up all the

361
00:15:22,305 --> 00:15:24,585
things between you and yourself, right?

362
00:15:24,795 --> 00:15:25,665
You're in your body.

363
00:15:25,665 --> 00:15:29,145
You're trying to connect to your body
with all these layers of bullshit that

364
00:15:29,145 --> 00:15:31,155
have been layered on from the fam.

365
00:15:31,185 --> 00:15:34,995
All the things our, all the, the
cumulative weight of our lived

366
00:15:34,995 --> 00:15:39,645
experience and our conditioning and our
training and our being in the world.

367
00:15:39,825 --> 00:15:41,595
And we carry that around with us.

368
00:15:41,925 --> 00:15:47,085
Pleasure is, pleasure is a birthright
due to anatomy because we're

369
00:15:47,085 --> 00:15:48,705
wired for it right out of the box.

370
00:15:49,245 --> 00:15:53,085
And we are trained away from
that to make good boys and girls.

371
00:15:53,585 --> 00:15:54,005
Mm-hmm.

372
00:15:54,150 --> 00:16:00,840
Because Western, you know, erotiphobia and
misogyny and phobia and all the things.

373
00:16:01,590 --> 00:16:01,710
Yeah.

374
00:16:01,770 --> 00:16:05,520
And so we are walking around in a
wounded relationship with our own

375
00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:09,810
physical self because of our, you,
you have, you have one reason for

376
00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:11,130
not being in your physical body.

377
00:16:11,130 --> 00:16:12,480
You have another, I have another.

378
00:16:12,780 --> 00:16:16,470
And so luckily, due to the
nature of pleasure, it can

379
00:16:16,470 --> 00:16:18,240
only bring us to our best self.

380
00:16:18,780 --> 00:16:24,110
So if, if I just learn to, to be,
be okay with pleasure in my body

381
00:16:24,110 --> 00:16:27,620
with not hurting anybody, I will
clear up a lot of things, right?

382
00:16:27,620 --> 00:16:31,940
Because as I'm touching myself and getting
closer to orgasm, and then something

383
00:16:31,940 --> 00:16:35,210
comes up in my mind and, and I stop, I
can say, that's this thing in my mind.

384
00:16:35,210 --> 00:16:35,930
It's not real.

385
00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:36,560
Right now.

386
00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:37,460
I'm alone in my room.

387
00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:39,140
Not hurting anybody.

388
00:16:39,410 --> 00:16:44,060
And so you can start dancing with it and
just using the pleasure to stay here.

389
00:16:44,065 --> 00:16:44,705
Say, I know you're scared.

390
00:16:44,710 --> 00:16:45,290
I know you're scared.

391
00:16:45,290 --> 00:16:45,920
I know you're scared.

392
00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:46,340
Stay here.

393
00:16:46,340 --> 00:16:46,820
Stay here.

394
00:16:46,820 --> 00:16:47,810
I, yeah, I know you're scared.

395
00:16:48,140 --> 00:16:50,560
And then you start, um, not images.

396
00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:54,010
Um, realizations start happening
and insights start happening.

397
00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:57,845
And the suffering lessons a
little when you have a, when

398
00:16:57,850 --> 00:16:58,900
you have a drop of insight.

399
00:16:58,930 --> 00:17:01,620
Oh, so you're not letting go of anything.

400
00:17:01,620 --> 00:17:04,890
You're not, not, you're not getting to
forgiveness because they deserve it.

401
00:17:05,370 --> 00:17:08,850
We get to forgiveness because it
hurts to be angry all the time.

402
00:17:08,850 --> 00:17:09,750
It's bad for us.

403
00:17:09,750 --> 00:17:13,320
It's bad for our spirit that
you, you can go no contact.

404
00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:14,310
You never have to talk to them again.

405
00:17:14,310 --> 00:17:17,550
You never have to say,
and you not required.

406
00:17:18,330 --> 00:17:19,020
Not required.

407
00:17:19,050 --> 00:17:20,730
You don't need, you don't
need, you don't need to forgive

408
00:17:20,730 --> 00:17:23,220
them or say, I forgive you.

409
00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:23,850
And they don't.

410
00:17:23,910 --> 00:17:24,240
Yeah.

411
00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:25,680
That's what I feel like.

412
00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:27,540
That's what everybody
says that I have to do.

413
00:17:27,540 --> 00:17:27,600
Yeah.

414
00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:30,390
They're like, no, you
have to forgive them.

415
00:17:30,390 --> 00:17:33,030
And you, you know, you in order
to feel better about, but it's so

416
00:17:33,030 --> 00:17:36,030
hard when you're raised
like that, that, so, yeah.

417
00:17:36,030 --> 00:17:36,390
So, yeah, exactly.

418
00:17:36,390 --> 00:17:38,760
So I wasn't raised in any, I
wasn't raised in a real, my parents

419
00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:41,490
started studying Zen when I was 10.

420
00:17:41,940 --> 00:17:44,040
But again, they just
did it in front of me.

421
00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:46,770
They didn't say, and you have to
sit down and read these things too.

422
00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:49,590
You have to come listen to
this person talk as well.

423
00:17:49,710 --> 00:17:52,290
They brought me around to places because
I was too young to be left alone.

424
00:17:52,620 --> 00:17:55,800
But it wasn't like, and you have to,
you have to believe this as well.

425
00:17:56,250 --> 00:18:01,860
Um, but I see that, you know, my
parents teacher said, you must work

426
00:18:01,860 --> 00:18:03,690
diligently at your own salvation.

427
00:18:04,530 --> 00:18:07,860
So with Zen, you wake up to the
fact that everyone's conditioned.

428
00:18:08,610 --> 00:18:08,700
Mm-hmm.

429
00:18:08,970 --> 00:18:13,320
And that's just being conditioned
is a state of being human.

430
00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:14,190
You can't avoid it.

431
00:18:14,690 --> 00:18:17,030
You know what conditioning you
get depends on culture, race,

432
00:18:17,030 --> 00:18:18,740
class, gender, all the things.

433
00:18:18,770 --> 00:18:18,830
Yeah.

434
00:18:19,190 --> 00:18:24,465
But we are a creature of our environment,
which is all the 10,000 of the

435
00:18:24,470 --> 00:18:27,190
culture that have shown this before.

436
00:18:27,190 --> 00:18:27,640
This moment.

437
00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:31,150
Right now there's been 10,000 years of
culture, and here we are sitting in front

438
00:18:31,150 --> 00:18:33,310
of a screen talking across the country.

439
00:18:33,460 --> 00:18:35,860
Explain why we're all so shitty now.

440
00:18:36,670 --> 00:18:36,680
Yes,

441
00:18:36,805 --> 00:18:37,545
yes it does.

442
00:18:37,545 --> 00:18:38,545
Yes it does.

443
00:18:38,890 --> 00:18:40,420
You made shitty humans.

444
00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:44,700
I mean, seriously, you know,
especially when TV came, like

445
00:18:44,790 --> 00:18:46,290
every year you're raised around

446
00:18:46,290 --> 00:18:46,440
it.

447
00:18:46,980 --> 00:18:47,040
Yeah.

448
00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:48,330
That I was raised by television.

449
00:18:48,390 --> 00:18:49,590
You are, you know,

450
00:18:49,650 --> 00:18:49,770
yeah.

451
00:18:49,770 --> 00:18:54,000
My parents, you know, people talk about
Generation X having zero supervision.

452
00:18:54,360 --> 00:18:55,350
I, I'm a boomer.

453
00:18:55,350 --> 00:18:56,430
I had zero supervision.

454
00:18:56,430 --> 00:19:01,410
My parents were like early, you know,
they were, they were in a crisis in

455
00:19:01,410 --> 00:19:04,110
their marriage, in their personal
individually, they're each having.

456
00:19:04,590 --> 00:19:08,700
Crisis of being middle aged in that time
period and the crisis in the marriage.

457
00:19:09,270 --> 00:19:13,050
And, um, they came to Zen
separately and realized, okay,

458
00:19:13,110 --> 00:19:14,160
it did save their marriage.

459
00:19:14,190 --> 00:19:17,730
They ended up being married 63
years, um, because they, they

460
00:19:17,730 --> 00:19:20,430
found something to, that they both
believed in and could do together.

461
00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:20,820
Right?

462
00:19:21,210 --> 00:19:24,420
And, um, that's a whole other career.

463
00:19:24,660 --> 00:19:27,450
They're, they're there 46 years
before they, before they died.

464
00:19:27,450 --> 00:19:31,020
So they, they really were fully
embedded in, in the culture.

465
00:19:31,020 --> 00:19:36,690
My mother was the first, uh, at the first
woman leader of a zen temple in America.

466
00:19:37,020 --> 00:19:39,690
Um, so she's, she, she, she's her
own, she's her own mucky muck.

467
00:19:39,690 --> 00:19:41,460
She has her own wiki page actually.

468
00:19:41,610 --> 00:19:43,470
Um, which is hilarious to me.

469
00:19:43,770 --> 00:19:48,770
Um, but the, so my, my parents did
not care for what I did, but they

470
00:19:48,770 --> 00:19:50,180
also did not make a big fuss of it.

471
00:19:50,360 --> 00:19:54,440
They, they, they, my mother finally,
after 25 years of sitting on a cushion,

472
00:19:55,340 --> 00:20:01,430
um, she said, you know, I was upset
because you didn't do as I expected, but.

473
00:20:01,805 --> 00:20:04,025
I realize expectations are my problem.

474
00:20:04,525 --> 00:20:04,615
Oh,

475
00:20:05,115 --> 00:20:07,725
and that, so, and you're,
so, you're a parent.

476
00:20:08,055 --> 00:20:09,555
You're a boomer child.

477
00:20:09,615 --> 00:20:12,575
You're from the boomer,
and you're amazingly sweet.

478
00:20:13,565 --> 00:20:13,715
Yeah.

479
00:20:13,715 --> 00:20:18,275
Our parents were boomers and we make fun
of them because they're such assholes.

480
00:20:18,335 --> 00:20:20,885
I mean, well, I did, I I never had kids.

481
00:20:20,915 --> 00:20:22,385
They're the ones now

482
00:20:22,385 --> 00:20:23,375
that I never had kids.

483
00:20:23,375 --> 00:20:24,155
And I'm the youngest.

484
00:20:24,655 --> 00:20:24,735
Youngest.

485
00:20:24,740 --> 00:20:27,670
You're the smartest woman on earth.

486
00:20:28,540 --> 00:20:32,320
Thank you for thinking so, but just
here, it, it, it, it embarrassing to see

487
00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:35,320
how other, because there are a lot of
TikTok and, and YouTube, you know, of

488
00:20:35,410 --> 00:20:38,530
millennials talking about their boom, you
know, making fun of their boomer parents.

489
00:20:38,530 --> 00:20:39,790
It's like, Ooh, ooh.

490
00:20:40,150 --> 00:20:41,470
I do have a bag of bags.

491
00:20:41,970 --> 00:20:45,420
I do have a bag of bags because
you never know when you need a bag.

492
00:20:45,660 --> 00:20:48,035
But, um, I'm, I'm, I am.

493
00:20:48,315 --> 00:20:48,970
I, I am.

494
00:20:49,470 --> 00:20:53,130
I know I'm, I'm boomer age, but I'm
not boomer minded in some things.

495
00:20:53,130 --> 00:20:53,910
I'm boomer minded.

496
00:20:54,330 --> 00:20:56,280
How do you use this application again?

497
00:20:56,940 --> 00:21:00,870
You know, how do I sync up my
devices, but, uh, not have, not,

498
00:21:00,900 --> 00:21:04,260
not being a parent has made all the,
for me, has made all the difference.

499
00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:05,040
Oh man.

500
00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:06,900
Child being child free has
made all the difference.

501
00:21:06,925 --> 00:21:08,070
Are you, are you child free?

502
00:21:08,570 --> 00:21:10,520
We actually have five kids.

503
00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:11,990
We have a very full house,

504
00:21:12,110 --> 00:21:12,500
so

505
00:21:13,250 --> 00:21:13,550
Thank you.

506
00:21:13,550 --> 00:21:14,210
He

507
00:21:14,330 --> 00:21:14,900
we're blended.

508
00:21:15,050 --> 00:21:15,140
Yeah.

509
00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:16,810
We're four years apart.

510
00:21:16,810 --> 00:21:17,500
I'm 48.

511
00:21:17,530 --> 00:21:18,460
He's 44.

512
00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:23,020
Um, I had my first child, so I was
told I was never going to have kids.

513
00:21:23,650 --> 00:21:29,910
And, um, on my second marriage,
we just, you know, decided

514
00:21:29,910 --> 00:21:31,230
to just throw it to the wind.

515
00:21:31,230 --> 00:21:32,430
And neither of us were told.

516
00:21:32,430 --> 00:21:35,630
We were told, both told that we could
never have kids, Kim again and me.

517
00:21:35,630 --> 00:21:36,080
Never.

518
00:21:36,380 --> 00:21:38,960
And boom, I had my first child.

519
00:21:39,545 --> 00:21:42,005
I was 31 1.

520
00:21:42,245 --> 00:21:43,505
Oh, so you still have kids at home?

521
00:21:43,535 --> 00:21:44,705
You still have minor children?

522
00:21:45,125 --> 00:21:45,635
We do.

523
00:21:45,635 --> 00:21:46,985
We have two 14-year-old

524
00:21:47,540 --> 00:21:54,415
and we, and then I have a almost
15 year has a 26 not biological,

525
00:21:54,415 --> 00:22:00,685
and then two biological that are
1920 and one that just turned 15.

526
00:22:00,685 --> 00:22:02,905
So they're, all of our kids are
the same age under the roof.

527
00:22:03,505 --> 00:22:04,015
Wow.

528
00:22:04,045 --> 00:22:04,285
That's

529
00:22:04,285 --> 00:22:04,525
sort of,

530
00:22:04,975 --> 00:22:05,575
they get on.

531
00:22:05,575 --> 00:22:06,355
Okay.

532
00:22:06,445 --> 00:22:07,075
Oh yeah.

533
00:22:07,075 --> 00:22:09,295
We've been together for 15 years.

534
00:22:09,795 --> 00:22:10,455
The babies.

535
00:22:10,455 --> 00:22:11,955
We call 'em the babies of 15 year olds.

536
00:22:12,075 --> 00:22:13,215
That's all they know.

537
00:22:13,335 --> 00:22:13,545
Oh.

538
00:22:13,545 --> 00:22:13,605
Um,

539
00:22:13,725 --> 00:22:14,445
that's pretty great.

540
00:22:14,490 --> 00:22:16,455
I mean, I, so yeah,
that's, I I'm an auntie.

541
00:22:16,455 --> 00:22:17,235
I love being an auntie.

542
00:22:17,235 --> 00:22:18,285
I love being a great auntie.

543
00:22:18,285 --> 00:22:19,155
Again, I love kids.

544
00:22:19,425 --> 00:22:23,655
I knew early I did not have it in
me to be, I knew I'd fuck a kid up.

545
00:22:24,225 --> 00:22:25,185
I just, I just knew it.

546
00:22:25,245 --> 00:22:27,405
Um, 'cause I didn't know about trauma.

547
00:22:27,405 --> 00:22:32,085
C-P-T-S-D and, and all the things,
but I definitely knew that I wasn't

548
00:22:32,085 --> 00:22:36,045
mommy material because I know how
much it took to be half at My mother

549
00:22:36,045 --> 00:22:39,795
really wanted to be better at this,
and I could see she was trying so

550
00:22:39,795 --> 00:22:41,955
hard to be a better mom than she had.

551
00:22:42,645 --> 00:22:42,885
And it,

552
00:22:43,155 --> 00:22:43,905
you have no idea.

553
00:22:43,905 --> 00:22:47,985
That is exhausting That and then being
in the lifestyle and still living life.

554
00:22:48,705 --> 00:22:48,915
Yeah.

555
00:22:48,915 --> 00:22:49,095
Parking

556
00:22:49,845 --> 00:22:50,295
exhausted.

557
00:22:50,310 --> 00:22:50,650
And it's,

558
00:22:50,985 --> 00:22:53,925
but at least you can leave your
kids home on a Saturday night.

559
00:22:54,585 --> 00:22:54,885
Yeah.

560
00:22:55,515 --> 00:22:59,175
People are like, oh, you guys are
bad parents because y'all don't

561
00:22:59,175 --> 00:23:00,675
choose each other all the time.

562
00:23:00,735 --> 00:23:03,975
Do you find that now I have a
really good, I have a question.

563
00:23:03,975 --> 00:23:05,925
So you're in the lifestyle.

564
00:23:06,425 --> 00:23:13,835
Do you find it hard to connect with people
who are not parents or who are parents?

565
00:23:13,835 --> 00:23:17,255
Like, I know that you're in your
sixties, but I'm sure that, I mean,

566
00:23:17,255 --> 00:23:22,295
you're smoking hot, so I'm sure
that, you know, there's these guys

567
00:23:22,295 --> 00:23:24,275
who like the cougars and stuff like

568
00:23:24,275 --> 00:23:24,365
that.

569
00:23:24,365 --> 00:23:24,905
Oh, for sure.

570
00:23:25,445 --> 00:23:26,525
That's, that's always hot.

571
00:23:27,005 --> 00:23:28,295
I'm not looking for relationships.

572
00:23:28,295 --> 00:23:29,675
I'm twi, I'm twice divorced.

573
00:23:29,675 --> 00:23:35,825
So for me, the, the, the sex that I have,
um, off camera is strictly sports sex.

574
00:23:35,825 --> 00:23:36,965
So is that gonna be at a party?

575
00:23:36,965 --> 00:23:38,375
It's gonna be with an old friend.

576
00:23:38,375 --> 00:23:39,965
I don't go out and pick up new people.

577
00:23:40,055 --> 00:23:42,365
I don't, I don't have the
energy, the bandwidth for that.

578
00:23:42,875 --> 00:23:48,245
Um, and honestly, uh, I don't,
I don't need Dick the way that

579
00:23:48,245 --> 00:23:49,840
I, what, you know, I, so I I you

580
00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:50,840
just became my

581
00:23:51,605 --> 00:23:52,445
don't person on her.

582
00:23:52,450 --> 00:23:56,405
I just, I don't, I I'm, I'm gonna,
I'm gonna let you in on a big secret.

583
00:23:56,905 --> 00:23:57,895
I have been fucked.

584
00:23:58,395 --> 00:23:58,515
I,

585
00:23:59,110 --> 00:24:02,260
so for me, you know, me and I, I
don't need to fuck anymore If I, if

586
00:24:02,275 --> 00:24:06,760
I, I I, I could give up intercourse,
um, quite easily because a oral sex

587
00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:08,530
is where it's at for me personally.

588
00:24:08,770 --> 00:24:12,250
Um, you know, uh, blow jobs
or no blow jobs or no jobs,

589
00:24:12,370 --> 00:24:15,070
tears right now, like, oh my God,

590
00:24:15,790 --> 00:24:15,940
no.

591
00:24:15,940 --> 00:24:18,550
So all these, all these young guys, they
want, they, they say they want an older

592
00:24:18,550 --> 00:24:19,930
woman who fucks like a 30-year-old.

593
00:24:19,930 --> 00:24:21,460
It's like, no, I'm postmenopausal.

594
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:25,600
Um, I do not, I do not need
penis in that way anymore.

595
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:28,210
And no, you cannot show
me a good time that way.

596
00:24:28,360 --> 00:24:30,760
And all the young guys, all the young
guys, all the other guys wanna be with me.

597
00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:33,430
It's like, honey, you could
not, you, you would not laugh.

598
00:24:33,490 --> 00:24:35,350
You couldn't, you couldn't
tolerate the hand job.

599
00:24:35,530 --> 00:24:35,680
You,

600
00:24:36,190 --> 00:24:38,320
how many times have
everything that she just said?

601
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:39,790
How many times I'm in, I'm 48.

602
00:24:39,850 --> 00:24:40,960
How many times have I said that?

603
00:24:40,990 --> 00:24:41,230
Like,

604
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:41,740
all the time

605
00:24:42,310 --> 00:24:43,990
I, it's

606
00:24:43,990 --> 00:24:44,350
hard.

607
00:24:44,350 --> 00:24:46,480
And there's younger guys who are
always knocking down the door

608
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:48,670
trying to go, Hey, you know, I
can really show you a good time.

609
00:24:48,670 --> 00:24:49,390
I'm like, you know,

610
00:24:50,050 --> 00:24:51,250
but, but can, but can you?

611
00:24:52,090 --> 00:24:55,510
You know, my thing is, I'm, I'm very
confident, you know, I know this

612
00:24:55,510 --> 00:24:58,960
woman and we know each other very
well, and I know that there's nobody

613
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:00,010
that can please me the way I can.

614
00:25:00,010 --> 00:25:02,710
But these guys, they,
they really alpha it out.

615
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:06,190
They're watching too much porn, but don't
figure, so I tell, tell guys all the

616
00:25:06,190 --> 00:25:10,720
time, porn is so, people should know porn.

617
00:25:11,350 --> 00:25:17,830
Porn is, porn is a weird amalgamation
of Monster truck rallies.

618
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:24,730
WE Wrestling, sporting Event, bad
dinner theater, um, uh, a little bit

619
00:25:24,730 --> 00:25:31,360
of a lifestyle, a life, uh, wildlife
documentary and a big old dollop of,

620
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:34,420
you know, misogyny and, and sexism.

621
00:25:34,450 --> 00:25:36,550
I mean, just 'cause it is so young.

622
00:25:36,550 --> 00:25:40,540
Men are looking at porn where the
women, any woman in porn needs

623
00:25:40,540 --> 00:25:43,510
Dick, I need dick and you are it.

624
00:25:43,915 --> 00:25:44,665
Come fuck me.

625
00:25:44,665 --> 00:25:46,675
Because that's, that's the
point of a porno movie.

626
00:25:46,675 --> 00:25:48,220
It's not about That's what you want.

627
00:25:48,220 --> 00:25:48,500
Makes funny.

628
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:52,615
No, but, but because it's for
masturbation and in masturbation,

629
00:25:52,615 --> 00:25:53,725
there's no room for nuance.

630
00:25:53,725 --> 00:25:56,245
There's no room for subtlety,
there's no room for feelings.

631
00:25:56,515 --> 00:25:59,875
It's just a, a visual thing
that you get to look at.

632
00:26:00,115 --> 00:26:00,835
It's like popcorn.

633
00:26:00,835 --> 00:26:01,495
It's disposable.

634
00:26:01,525 --> 00:26:02,845
Porn's meant to be disposable.

635
00:26:03,205 --> 00:26:08,095
Um, that's why, that's why even if
porn stopped making tomorrow, no

636
00:26:08,725 --> 00:26:11,965
thousand people could watch all the
available movies out there, because,

637
00:26:12,445 --> 00:26:13,525
but it's always based on the news.

638
00:26:13,525 --> 00:26:17,035
So that is a indictment of our
culture and the disrespect we offer

639
00:26:17,035 --> 00:26:18,385
sex to women and all the things.

640
00:26:18,385 --> 00:26:20,965
That's, that's a whole other conversation.

641
00:26:21,595 --> 00:26:26,515
But the, i the idea because in our
culture of sex education is such a

642
00:26:26,905 --> 00:26:32,155
weird non thing that people look at the,
because the sex and pornography is real.

643
00:26:32,185 --> 00:26:33,055
It is a real penis.

644
00:26:33,085 --> 00:26:34,165
It is a real vagina.

645
00:26:34,285 --> 00:26:35,215
They are really touching.

646
00:26:35,905 --> 00:26:38,905
They don't know because we have
no media literacy and critical

647
00:26:38,905 --> 00:26:40,015
thinking in our country, they.

648
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:42,820
Then stop and go, this is a movie.

649
00:26:43,150 --> 00:26:45,610
And in real life your mileage may vary.

650
00:26:46,110 --> 00:26:46,830
So

651
00:26:47,130 --> 00:26:47,250
yeah,

652
00:26:47,250 --> 00:26:50,670
you get the guys who find you
attractive and they're young.

653
00:26:50,700 --> 00:26:54,060
All they know is hard want in.

654
00:26:54,390 --> 00:26:55,260
They, they're not they.

655
00:26:55,260 --> 00:26:58,020
And so, and they, they
think you want that too.

656
00:26:58,050 --> 00:27:02,700
So it's a big, it's, it's taken me a
long time to say in public, I'm probably

657
00:27:02,700 --> 00:27:04,020
not gonna fuck on camera anymore.

658
00:27:04,020 --> 00:27:08,280
I'm, I've come, I'm doing scenes again,
but not fucking, and I have to realize

659
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:11,490
that if people are disappointed with
that, I've done a thousand boy girl

660
00:27:11,490 --> 00:27:16,430
scenes, you can go find any one of those
thousand scenes and ha and have at it,

661
00:27:16,435 --> 00:27:16,815
have fun,

662
00:27:17,125 --> 00:27:18,800
have ha have fun with the,

663
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:21,380
you know, and, and I, I
am, you know, I grew up.

664
00:27:21,770 --> 00:27:22,550
Watching porn.

665
00:27:22,550 --> 00:27:23,180
I love porn.

666
00:27:23,330 --> 00:27:27,320
But I will say that the problem
with it is, it's that whole

667
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:29,090
fantasy versus reality thing.

668
00:27:29,300 --> 00:27:31,850
And especially when it comes
to the lifestyle and people

669
00:27:31,850 --> 00:27:33,050
coming into the lifestyle.

670
00:27:33,350 --> 00:27:36,170
A lot of these younger people,
they, they know what they've seen

671
00:27:36,170 --> 00:27:39,260
on, on clips, on, on, it's no,

672
00:27:40,070 --> 00:27:41,450
they don't see the negotiation.

673
00:27:41,450 --> 00:27:43,910
They don't see the, the boundary setting.

674
00:27:43,910 --> 00:27:45,350
They don't see the safety measures.

675
00:27:45,350 --> 00:27:46,790
They don't, they hardly ever show loom.

676
00:27:46,790 --> 00:27:47,030
Exactly.

677
00:27:47,450 --> 00:27:54,050
Um, you So it is, it is a problem when
younger people are coming into the

678
00:27:54,050 --> 00:27:57,650
lifestyle because they don't have the
basis in sex education or sex positivity.

679
00:27:58,010 --> 00:28:02,720
'cause the, the whole sex positive
subculture than a bunch of regular people

680
00:28:02,930 --> 00:28:07,970
who want in, but they don't have the
emotional bandwidth to handle jealousy

681
00:28:07,970 --> 00:28:10,070
and boundaries and emotional regulation.

682
00:28:10,100 --> 00:28:10,250
Yes.

683
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:12,770
And, but they never pay for it.

684
00:28:13,270 --> 00:28:17,350
It's like if you want the hot, if you want
a guaranteed hot Cougar experience, hire

685
00:28:17,350 --> 00:28:22,120
a Cougar age professional provider and
have at it, and she'll give you that show.

686
00:28:22,900 --> 00:28:23,770
But in real life, she'll,

687
00:28:23,945 --> 00:28:24,880
she'll gimme that fun.

688
00:28:25,380 --> 00:28:26,340
It's a gig.

689
00:28:26,910 --> 00:28:27,420
It's a gig.

690
00:28:27,780 --> 00:28:30,780
So if you, so if you want it
for real and for sure you'll

691
00:28:30,780 --> 00:28:32,520
hire a pro and negotiate that.

692
00:28:32,790 --> 00:28:37,080
She's gonna be the hot cougar and you're
gonna be the college sophomore, whatever.

693
00:28:37,770 --> 00:28:37,980
Yeah.

694
00:28:38,010 --> 00:28:43,260
They don't know that in real life,
women can say no, but it's negotiation

695
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:46,290
and you have to be able to talk about
what you want and hear what other

696
00:28:46,290 --> 00:28:48,390
people want, and then act within that.

697
00:28:48,660 --> 00:28:50,250
And that's never, that's never discussed.

698
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:50,790
Right.

699
00:28:50,790 --> 00:28:51,300
As a gender.

700
00:28:51,300 --> 00:28:51,780
And it's not.

701
00:28:51,870 --> 00:28:56,070
Have you seen a change from
where you started to now?

702
00:28:56,070 --> 00:29:00,645
Do you feel like we're getting,
uh, women as a, as a being?

703
00:29:01,125 --> 00:29:04,635
Do you feel like we're getting better now?

704
00:29:05,135 --> 00:29:07,625
We have so many tools now,
more than you did more tools.

705
00:29:07,980 --> 00:29:08,345
But now, but

706
00:29:08,345 --> 00:29:11,885
now the manosphere is,
is bigger than ever.

707
00:29:11,885 --> 00:29:14,075
And so now people are
being very much siloed.

708
00:29:14,465 --> 00:29:20,005
So men who are having trouble in life
instead of going to therapy and looking

709
00:29:20,005 --> 00:29:23,665
in the mirror, blaming feminism and
women wanting too, you know, too much.

710
00:29:24,115 --> 00:29:29,065
Um, and the, the manosphere thing is, you
know, um, 80% of women are going after

711
00:29:29,065 --> 00:29:31,225
20% of men and they want the six pack.

712
00:29:31,225 --> 00:29:34,470
And the six figures and six feet
learn that, which is just no, we,

713
00:29:34,490 --> 00:29:35,590
we saw a documentary.

714
00:29:35,620 --> 00:29:35,910
Yeah,

715
00:29:35,930 --> 00:29:39,865
he, he, it's very, it's very
distressing and it's really very common.

716
00:29:39,865 --> 00:29:45,405
So you, so the discourse around, so
Trump has made everything coser and

717
00:29:45,405 --> 00:29:51,105
Trump has this ripped the bandaid off
the, the misogyny and the racism and not

718
00:29:51,105 --> 00:29:55,005
be looking to say the quiet parts out
loud and vote the quiet parts out loud.

719
00:29:55,365 --> 00:29:57,465
So now it's very important that you.

720
00:29:57,855 --> 00:29:59,115
Pick your community.

721
00:29:59,415 --> 00:30:03,825
Right there is on the other, on the flip
side of the manosphere, I do run into

722
00:30:03,825 --> 00:30:08,175
people in their twenties who, who are
already happily poly in some kind of group

723
00:30:08,175 --> 00:30:10,125
situation or a loose friendship circle.

724
00:30:10,125 --> 00:30:12,285
The men are more casually
bisexual than they used to be.

725
00:30:12,585 --> 00:30:17,385
So for, for, so there is, there are
two subcultures that I see emerging,

726
00:30:17,415 --> 00:30:22,565
and I don't do a study of this, but
the classic bro culture that we see so

727
00:30:22,565 --> 00:30:28,805
much of, and then a quieter, more queer
inclusive, um, uh, green flag dudes who

728
00:30:28,805 --> 00:30:32,435
are just more able to talk about their
sexuality and what they want and then

729
00:30:32,495 --> 00:30:36,605
seek people who get, seek like-minded
people and engage them in it as opposed

730
00:30:36,605 --> 00:30:38,015
to trying to talk somebody into it.

731
00:30:38,465 --> 00:30:38,915
Um,

732
00:30:39,095 --> 00:30:39,515
yeah,

733
00:30:39,545 --> 00:30:44,405
it is, those people don't get much
press because there's nothing.

734
00:30:44,765 --> 00:30:47,555
The, the, there's nothing ations
about it, but happily living,

735
00:30:48,305 --> 00:30:49,595
non-monogamy, non monogamously.

736
00:30:49,985 --> 00:30:52,115
There's, you know, where's the
tension, where's the drama?

737
00:30:52,115 --> 00:30:53,165
Where's the story?

738
00:30:53,405 --> 00:30:58,055
So when you have a bunch of people
spewing misogynistic hate, um, that

739
00:30:58,055 --> 00:31:01,325
is more of a, you know, rage ba
that, that's gonna get more views.

740
00:31:01,655 --> 00:31:06,515
Um, it's important though that you keep
doing your podcast so that people who are

741
00:31:06,515 --> 00:31:10,895
looking for a beacon of hope and for the
community, their community can find you.

742
00:31:11,465 --> 00:31:11,825
Right?

743
00:31:12,095 --> 00:31:12,185
Yeah.

744
00:31:12,725 --> 00:31:15,455
Its really important that people
know that there is a different way

745
00:31:15,455 --> 00:31:20,965
to be than unhappily monogamous,
or, you know, someone once said,

746
00:31:21,205 --> 00:31:22,435
people don't wanna be monogamous.

747
00:31:22,435 --> 00:31:26,545
They want to appear monogamous because,
and our culture, monogamy still gets you

748
00:31:26,545 --> 00:31:31,195
social benefits, and so they don't want
to, and again, I, I mean, yeah, it's true.

749
00:31:31,705 --> 00:31:36,385
We have friends that, that
don't want to have that label.

750
00:31:36,385 --> 00:31:41,305
Like they're just whatever or whatever,
you know, and it's like, hmm, no, you're.

751
00:31:42,055 --> 00:31:42,955
Non-monogamous.

752
00:31:43,030 --> 00:31:43,490
It's what it's,

753
00:31:43,990 --> 00:31:44,290
yeah,

754
00:31:44,380 --> 00:31:44,770
but it

755
00:31:44,770 --> 00:31:46,390
can still hurt you at work.

756
00:31:46,450 --> 00:31:49,450
It can still hurt you in, in politics.

757
00:31:49,450 --> 00:31:52,930
I mean, so it's, I, I get, I
get why people are the fear.

758
00:31:53,410 --> 00:31:53,650
Yeah.

759
00:31:53,650 --> 00:31:55,240
So I, I, I've never had a straight job.

760
00:31:55,240 --> 00:32:00,130
I don't, I, I, well, you know, I'm going
up for jury duty in a, in a couple weeks.

761
00:32:00,130 --> 00:32:03,190
I hope, you know, you know, hopefully I
get recognized enough that people gonna

762
00:32:03,190 --> 00:32:04,825
go, no, we can't have her, you know?

763
00:32:05,260 --> 00:32:07,780
Um, uh, um,

764
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:13,740
it's just important that there are more.

765
00:32:14,430 --> 00:32:18,810
Ways for people to find information
about our, our culture, the, the culture

766
00:32:18,810 --> 00:32:22,170
of consensual non-monogamy, ethical,
non-monogamy, polyamory, swinging,

767
00:32:22,860 --> 00:32:27,990
whatever words I I like, I like, uh,
CNNC and m, consensual non-monogamy.

768
00:32:27,990 --> 00:32:29,430
That just covered, that's a big umbrella.

769
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:30,390
That's a big umbrella.

770
00:32:30,390 --> 00:32:30,400
Yeah.

771
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:33,990
Well, so I never liked throwing
ethical out there because it's assuming

772
00:32:33,990 --> 00:32:37,830
that there's a form of non-monogamy
that it's okay to be unethical.

773
00:32:37,835 --> 00:32:38,005
Yeah.

774
00:32:38,005 --> 00:32:40,245
It's like, no, like it's not,
so you didn't want that front.

775
00:32:40,245 --> 00:32:40,405
So,

776
00:32:40,665 --> 00:32:42,605
so I, I always like
consensual non-monogamy.

777
00:32:42,605 --> 00:32:44,970
That's so, I, I'm, I'm, I'm very
happy with consensual non monogamy.

778
00:32:45,365 --> 00:32:47,070
That, that, that's,
that's, that's what it is.

779
00:32:47,070 --> 00:32:50,520
It's, um, I, I tell young men all the
time that whatever's going on in your

780
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:54,740
head, you can have the sex life of
your dream with nobody being angry,

781
00:32:54,860 --> 00:32:57,280
sick, or pregnant if you do the work.

782
00:32:57,780 --> 00:32:58,070
Yeah.

783
00:32:58,075 --> 00:32:58,285
Yeah.

784
00:32:58,735 --> 00:32:59,665
It doesn't just happen.

785
00:32:59,665 --> 00:33:02,995
But if you do the personal
work, you can find a partner who

786
00:33:02,995 --> 00:33:05,785
wants that too, and find a whole
community who supports you in that.

787
00:33:06,265 --> 00:33:06,835
And.

788
00:33:07,810 --> 00:33:12,280
Or you can keep lying to your girlfriend
or, you know, those, I mean, I,

789
00:33:13,060 --> 00:33:18,280
I feel like it's easier for, and I'm, and
because I have kids of so many ages, um,

790
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:25,730
I feel like right now girls are coming
out more and being more free about it.

791
00:33:26,230 --> 00:33:28,500
Or females are then males.

792
00:33:28,500 --> 00:33:33,080
Like the males are still scared
because some of us have raised

793
00:33:33,290 --> 00:33:37,220
misogynistic little assholes, you
know, and some of us have not.

794
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:41,750
Our boys are really good and they're very
inclusive, but I know that they start,

795
00:33:41,930 --> 00:33:43,970
like people around them are not, yeah.

796
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:46,940
So and so, and so then, you know, do.

797
00:33:47,690 --> 00:33:51,560
So your boys may never do those things
to, they would never, you know, take

798
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:52,670
advantage of someone who's drunker.

799
00:33:52,670 --> 00:33:55,190
But do they call out their
friend for saying bullshit shit?

800
00:33:55,690 --> 00:33:55,750
No.

801
00:33:55,750 --> 00:33:56,260
That's the thing.

802
00:33:56,260 --> 00:33:58,150
Yeah, because nobody
wants to be called out.

803
00:33:58,150 --> 00:33:59,620
Nobody wants to have that impaired.

804
00:33:59,620 --> 00:34:03,190
So, we'll, and we'll, we'll continue
until more men call out other men

805
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:06,370
because men are not gonna, no one's
gonna say, please stop raping us.

806
00:34:06,490 --> 00:34:07,540
Please stop raping us.

807
00:34:07,540 --> 00:34:09,190
It's only 'cause men
only listen to other men.

808
00:34:09,190 --> 00:34:11,560
Men do not listen to women,
men listen to other men.

809
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:12,670
Now I'm gonna remind that.

810
00:34:13,095 --> 00:34:17,020
And so if until enough
men go, dude, not cool.

811
00:34:17,020 --> 00:34:17,500
Fuck.

812
00:34:17,500 --> 00:34:18,430
What the fuck?

813
00:34:18,670 --> 00:34:22,450
And are willing to stand up and, and, and
hold without lying, nothing will change.

814
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:24,910
Locker room talk will not change.

815
00:34:25,090 --> 00:34:25,360
Period.

816
00:34:25,390 --> 00:34:26,830
To the guys who stay quiet.

817
00:34:26,830 --> 00:34:30,820
And I don't like it because, again, you
don't wanna be, I mean, social, social,

818
00:34:31,450 --> 00:34:33,850
social pressure to act in certain ways.

819
00:34:34,350 --> 00:34:38,480
So I don't, I don't, I don't know
what is required to change that.

820
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:39,530
'cause again, I'm not a parent.

821
00:34:40,030 --> 00:34:40,480
Yeah.

822
00:34:40,930 --> 00:34:42,160
You know, it takes a lot.

823
00:34:42,850 --> 00:34:43,600
It, no, it takes a lot.

824
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:48,510
But unless, unless boy, unless boys
change, unless the, the, the good

825
00:34:48,510 --> 00:34:52,200
men who would never do those things
start pushing back against the guys

826
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:55,920
who even who say those things and do
those things, nothing will change.

827
00:34:56,250 --> 00:34:58,830
Um, and the, and the even
more so in the right wing, the

828
00:34:58,830 --> 00:35:00,480
right wing is very homosocial.

829
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:02,070
It's very homoerotic, right?

830
00:35:02,070 --> 00:35:02,160
Yes.

831
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:06,570
They men though, men who claim to be
straight, they will have intercourse

832
00:35:06,570 --> 00:35:10,020
with women, but they reserves their
admiration and their, and their

833
00:35:10,020 --> 00:35:12,150
love and their appreciation for men.

834
00:35:12,150 --> 00:35:16,170
And they, they only really like
appreciation and admiration from

835
00:35:16,170 --> 00:35:20,010
other men to make them feel good
about themselves because women are

836
00:35:20,010 --> 00:35:23,690
still, you know, not, they're still.

837
00:35:24,095 --> 00:35:24,905
Quite disrespected.

838
00:35:24,905 --> 00:35:25,385
I have some books.

839
00:35:25,385 --> 00:35:27,365
I can email you some titles that will

840
00:35:27,365 --> 00:35:27,815
please

841
00:35:27,815 --> 00:35:27,965
do.

842
00:35:27,965 --> 00:35:29,045
Um, that will, that will help.

843
00:35:29,050 --> 00:35:30,605
But it's, but it's really,
it's really difficult.

844
00:35:30,635 --> 00:35:34,025
Um, I don't have this, this,
this chat is still not working.

845
00:35:34,505 --> 00:35:34,745
Nope.

846
00:35:34,895 --> 00:35:35,255
Okay.

847
00:35:35,315 --> 00:35:35,885
Not a problem.

848
00:35:36,155 --> 00:35:36,935
I'll send it later.

849
00:35:37,205 --> 00:35:37,655
Um, okay.

850
00:35:37,745 --> 00:35:37,955
And a

851
00:35:37,955 --> 00:35:39,845
great book for your, for
your boys too, actually.

852
00:35:39,905 --> 00:35:40,595
Uh, that

853
00:35:40,595 --> 00:35:40,655
Yeah.

854
00:35:40,835 --> 00:35:44,105
Uh, that you will like,
um, I will love that.

855
00:35:44,105 --> 00:35:44,345
I mean,

856
00:35:44,345 --> 00:35:51,365
they are, we are, you know, my husband's
very respectful, even in like, we not, and

857
00:35:51,365 --> 00:35:56,420
I say even in non-monogamy relationship,
he has always been respectful of me.

858
00:35:56,420 --> 00:35:56,580
I mean,

859
00:35:56,645 --> 00:36:00,545
even like as, as swingers, I was just
talking about this with the couple

860
00:36:00,545 --> 00:36:04,265
that we were, uh, hanging out with last
night, was that, you know, there's,

861
00:36:04,445 --> 00:36:09,725
there's a lot of men that will call
me over and have that one-on-one guy

862
00:36:09,725 --> 00:36:14,045
talk locker room talk, you know, and
it's like, oh, I'm gonna book that one

863
00:36:14,045 --> 00:36:15,425
and I'm gonna book that one tonight.

864
00:36:15,425 --> 00:36:17,735
And I'm, and it makes me
real uncomfortable because

865
00:36:17,765 --> 00:36:18,695
I was raised by women.

866
00:36:19,055 --> 00:36:21,455
And so that's very disrespectful.

867
00:36:21,980 --> 00:36:25,935
And, and so I sit back and I'm
like, that's not, that's not cool.

868
00:36:26,035 --> 00:36:26,935
You know, matter of fact,

869
00:36:27,255 --> 00:36:28,640
is that also not how it works?

870
00:36:29,180 --> 00:36:30,200
It's not how it works.

871
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:30,470
Baby.

872
00:36:30,860 --> 00:36:33,950
Women run swinging, baby women
are in charge of swinging.

873
00:36:33,950 --> 00:36:34,640
Sweetheart.

874
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:36,790
Always that you're just so cute.

875
00:36:36,790 --> 00:36:38,030
You're just accuse as your boy.

876
00:36:38,090 --> 00:36:41,585
You just accuse your boy, you're gonna
go do this and go have that girl.

877
00:36:41,585 --> 00:36:42,470
You're in death.

878
00:36:42,610 --> 00:36:43,030
So funny.

879
00:36:43,170 --> 00:36:43,390
And,

880
00:36:43,395 --> 00:36:45,215
you know, it's, and it's
a chest stumping thing.

881
00:36:45,215 --> 00:36:48,335
I don't know if they're trying to show
off for other men and this and that.

882
00:36:48,335 --> 00:36:51,815
You know, I've, I've always
been one of those that I'm, I'm

883
00:36:51,815 --> 00:36:53,555
not alpha, that's not my thing.

884
00:36:53,555 --> 00:36:55,265
Like, I'm confident in my own way.

885
00:36:55,265 --> 00:36:57,155
I know I can take care of
whatever I need to take care of.

886
00:36:57,485 --> 00:36:58,025
And that's cool.

887
00:36:58,025 --> 00:37:01,235
I can be myself and that's
why I'm so frigging happy.

888
00:37:01,235 --> 00:37:04,775
But I think a lot of these guys,
they just have this pent up.

889
00:37:05,275 --> 00:37:07,075
Nobody's ever really noticed me.

890
00:37:07,075 --> 00:37:08,815
And so they're ever,
they're gonna notice me now.

891
00:37:08,815 --> 00:37:08,875
The

892
00:37:09,025 --> 00:37:14,095
lack of intelligence and the
lack of maturity, you would

893
00:37:14,095 --> 00:37:15,785
think at even this age would.

894
00:37:16,615 --> 00:37:19,675
Speed there, but it's not for
a lot of men, men do anything

895
00:37:20,005 --> 00:37:21,445
except go to therapy again.

896
00:37:21,445 --> 00:37:27,355
So you were talking about to, you
know, toxic masculine behavior is the

897
00:37:27,775 --> 00:37:34,645
conflation of, of not having access to
your emotions with being strong makes you

898
00:37:34,645 --> 00:37:39,835
brittle and makes you fragile as, as you
have discovered in your own situation.

899
00:37:40,315 --> 00:37:45,325
Um, I heard something the other day that
I did not come up with, but I wish that

900
00:37:45,775 --> 00:37:47,485
men are not competing with other men.

901
00:37:47,515 --> 00:37:48,085
For women.

902
00:37:48,175 --> 00:37:51,655
Men are competing with, competing with
women's sense of peace and safety.

903
00:37:52,155 --> 00:37:52,515
Right.

904
00:37:52,515 --> 00:37:56,685
Because, because we no longer need
you for economic survival, there are

905
00:37:56,685 --> 00:37:58,875
things up with which we will not put.

906
00:37:59,535 --> 00:38:00,105
And

907
00:38:00,255 --> 00:38:01,425
my friend was just saying that

908
00:38:02,085 --> 00:38:02,415
Yeah.

909
00:38:02,475 --> 00:38:04,875
Rather, we'd rather be alone
with our cats and our vibrators

910
00:38:04,875 --> 00:38:06,315
than deal with a man baby.

911
00:38:06,615 --> 00:38:08,235
There's a new word called man keeping.

912
00:38:09,210 --> 00:38:13,320
Right, which is, which, it just like,
it sounds like it's a, it's a woman

913
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:18,240
who, who is having to finish raising
a man because his mama didn't do it.

914
00:38:18,660 --> 00:38:22,320
Uh, but all these guys who weaponized
incompetence, you know who, who, who,

915
00:38:22,620 --> 00:38:22,800
yeah.

916
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:26,970
Just are very hostile to their partners
and, and it's really quite distressing.

917
00:38:27,180 --> 00:38:31,830
Again, as a, I'm, I don't understand
heterosexuality, I don't, I don't, I

918
00:38:31,830 --> 00:38:36,960
don't understand being monosexual the
only one, one gender is attractive to me,

919
00:38:37,260 --> 00:38:39,690
so I don't understand monogamy, right?

920
00:38:39,690 --> 00:38:44,370
So I don't, so I can only imagine if
I'm a woman who's oriented to, I want

921
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:46,500
a single partner of a man variety.

922
00:38:46,890 --> 00:38:50,070
I could only, I can barely
imagine how difficult it is to.

923
00:38:50,790 --> 00:38:53,820
To find him, especially when you find
out about the rape academy with all

924
00:38:53,820 --> 00:38:55,055
the hits that, that, you know mm-hmm.

925
00:38:55,135 --> 00:38:59,340
Just when you see the deep, deep,
deep misogyny that's baked into all

926
00:38:59,340 --> 00:39:05,160
the laws and all the customs, I, I
would feel despairing too, if I was a

927
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:09,960
normie, trying to find my, trying to
find a, a partner within that structure

928
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:14,610
when I only want one and I want him
to be faithful to me and I wanna be

929
00:39:14,610 --> 00:39:17,340
faithful to him, and I want only one.

930
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:19,730
I don't know how you, I don't know how.

931
00:39:19,730 --> 00:39:22,130
And then on top of that, whatever
sexual trauma I have that makes it

932
00:39:22,130 --> 00:39:25,460
difficult, easy for me to become sexually
comfortable with a person and all the

933
00:39:25,460 --> 00:39:27,080
layers, I don't know how people do it.

934
00:39:27,350 --> 00:39:31,520
Um, who want a more con, who are wired
for more conventional, conventional,

935
00:39:31,610 --> 00:39:34,190
traditional expression of, of sex.

936
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:37,700
Um, I, I, uh, I don't understand.

937
00:39:37,700 --> 00:39:38,270
I don't understand it.

938
00:39:38,900 --> 00:39:41,510
Do you live your, do you have a poly life?

939
00:39:41,510 --> 00:39:42,740
Is that what you would label?

940
00:39:42,770 --> 00:39:44,240
If you have to put a name on it?

941
00:39:44,930 --> 00:39:46,640
I'm gonna say non-monogamous, right?

942
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:47,570
So poly.

943
00:39:47,690 --> 00:39:50,000
So I get them more of a
swinger than I am poly.

944
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:53,360
I, I have lots of close
friends and sex with them is

945
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:54,620
an option when we're together.

946
00:39:55,010 --> 00:39:57,860
Um, but we don't maintain relationship.

947
00:39:57,860 --> 00:39:59,600
I don't send Valentine's cards, you know?

948
00:40:00,110 --> 00:40:02,630
Um, it's, I guess it depends.

949
00:40:02,660 --> 00:40:07,250
It def it depends with options because
the, the be the benefit is not automatic.

950
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:10,400
It's not like, you know, if I see them,
we're gonna have sex, but if I see them

951
00:40:10,430 --> 00:40:13,580
in the sex positive community, we could
talk about where you're at tonight.

952
00:40:14,240 --> 00:40:15,410
Um, I,

953
00:40:15,910 --> 00:40:16,720
that just keeps changing.

954
00:40:16,870 --> 00:40:17,380
I, I

955
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:17,890
love it.

956
00:40:18,390 --> 00:40:23,100
So I also, I think Polly has, I think
poll is very part, you know, what it

957
00:40:23,100 --> 00:40:24,570
means to me, what it means to you.

958
00:40:24,780 --> 00:40:27,690
So non, non-monogamous
versus swinger versus Polly.

959
00:40:27,690 --> 00:40:32,060
So for me, poly implies a
more ongoing relational.

960
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:33,020
Mm.

961
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:34,120
Relational.

962
00:40:34,270 --> 00:40:34,540
Yeah.

963
00:40:34,780 --> 00:40:34,810
Relat.

964
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:38,740
Like, so with swingers, I don't talk to
you between swing parties when I say,

965
00:40:38,740 --> 00:40:40,810
oh my gosh, how, how you guys doing?

966
00:40:40,810 --> 00:40:41,860
Hey, whatcha you move for tonight?

967
00:40:41,860 --> 00:40:44,950
And, you know, so, but in between
swing parties, I don't call people.

968
00:40:44,950 --> 00:40:45,670
I don't talk to them.

969
00:40:45,670 --> 00:40:47,260
I don't say, Hey, what
doing wanna go to dinner?

970
00:40:47,770 --> 00:40:49,690
Um, I don't do that much.

971
00:40:50,110 --> 00:40:50,590
Um,

972
00:40:50,650 --> 00:40:52,210
it's just, uh, it's just,

973
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:53,800
it's just, so for me it's just social.

974
00:40:53,980 --> 00:40:57,220
Um, again, I don't, but also I don't
go to swing parties to get laid.

975
00:40:57,430 --> 00:40:59,440
I go to swing parties to
help other people get laid.

976
00:40:59,890 --> 00:41:00,250
Right.

977
00:41:00,340 --> 00:41:02,830
So I, I am, I'm the ultimate
unicorn at a swing party.

978
00:41:02,830 --> 00:41:03,430
I'm here to help.

979
00:41:03,430 --> 00:41:05,470
I'm, I'm the, I'm the
manic pixie dream girl.

980
00:41:05,740 --> 00:41:07,420
I'm here to lay a great time on you.

981
00:41:07,425 --> 00:41:08,890
I'm, I'm a bit of a stone top.

982
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:10,330
Okay.

983
00:41:10,420 --> 00:41:12,610
Meaning I, I, I do to others.

984
00:41:12,610 --> 00:41:15,130
I don't really need you to do to me.

985
00:41:15,630 --> 00:41:15,780
Huh?

986
00:41:16,110 --> 00:41:18,570
So, women who say that I'm,
I'm bi from the waist up.

987
00:41:18,720 --> 00:41:19,290
That's fine.

988
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:20,340
I don't want you to eat me out.

989
00:41:20,340 --> 00:41:20,730
We're good.

990
00:41:20,730 --> 00:41:21,360
We're good sweetheart.

991
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:21,900
And lay back.

992
00:41:21,900 --> 00:41:22,620
Have a good time.

993
00:41:22,620 --> 00:41:23,490
Suck your husband's dick.

994
00:41:23,490 --> 00:41:24,180
We'll eat you out.

995
00:41:24,555 --> 00:41:27,165
We're, we're gonna have a great,
we're gonna have a great time.

996
00:41:27,495 --> 00:41:29,415
Um, so, but that's just me.

997
00:41:29,865 --> 00:41:34,845
My, I'm not multiple, feel like I don't,
I don't, I don't, I don't come easily

998
00:41:34,845 --> 00:41:38,385
Nina somewhere in here
that she is just like,

999
00:41:38,445 --> 00:41:40,605
I'm, I, I, I like helping,
I like doing to others.

1000
00:41:40,605 --> 00:41:41,535
I like playing with bodies.

1001
00:41:41,535 --> 00:41:42,885
I like helping other people have sex.

1002
00:41:42,885 --> 00:41:45,015
That's my favorite thing is
helping two other people have sex.

1003
00:41:45,045 --> 00:41:47,475
I love running, I love
running, um, gang bank.

1004
00:41:47,475 --> 00:41:48,435
I love running trains.

1005
00:41:48,795 --> 00:41:50,925
So the person at the bottom
who's having the train can

1006
00:41:50,925 --> 00:41:52,335
just relax and, and go there.

1007
00:41:52,665 --> 00:41:56,205
And I'm making sure that, you
know, boundaries are respected

1008
00:41:56,205 --> 00:41:59,895
and safer sex protocol that
we've agreed upon is followed.

1009
00:42:00,195 --> 00:42:04,995
So I don't, I don't, I don't not, I don't
go to swing parties to get to get fucked.

1010
00:42:05,610 --> 00:42:06,465
I, I go there.

1011
00:42:06,570 --> 00:42:08,145
I, I personally go there to.

1012
00:42:08,985 --> 00:42:11,715
Show other people a good time
and to get and recklessly

1013
00:42:11,715 --> 00:42:13,275
eyeball other people having sex.

1014
00:42:13,875 --> 00:42:16,365
Well, you know, Nina, I wanna take
a little sidebar there because

1015
00:42:16,370 --> 00:42:20,055
you, you, you went into, uh, like
trains and gang bangs and whatnot.

1016
00:42:20,325 --> 00:42:24,165
This woman here, she, one of her
fantasies is to do a, a gang bang.

1017
00:42:24,585 --> 00:42:26,385
And she's been very vocal on it.

1018
00:42:26,445 --> 00:42:26,535
I

1019
00:42:26,535 --> 00:42:27,705
was told it's a train.

1020
00:42:27,705 --> 00:42:29,955
Well, I, I dunno, I dunno
what the actual label is.

1021
00:42:29,955 --> 00:42:32,775
So a train is one person
after another first.

1022
00:42:32,955 --> 00:42:35,355
And a gang bang is all
hands on you at once.

1023
00:42:35,355 --> 00:42:36,345
A train is

1024
00:42:36,885 --> 00:42:39,375
So you'd want one after one, one
after another, after another.

1025
00:42:40,035 --> 00:42:41,115
No, I'd like the gang bang.

1026
00:42:41,115 --> 00:42:41,810
All the gang bang.

1027
00:42:42,045 --> 00:42:43,485
So, so you can absolutely.

1028
00:42:43,485 --> 00:42:47,355
So here's what, so if as the partner
there, um, first you find out from her

1029
00:42:47,595 --> 00:42:49,545
who does she wanna be in her gang bang.

1030
00:42:50,045 --> 00:42:53,885
So, and that's the, that's the tough part
is that she, so, and this was something

1031
00:42:53,885 --> 00:42:57,725
that she was gonna talk to you about, was
that she's had difficulty finding men.

1032
00:42:58,475 --> 00:43:02,735
Um, there's not been a lot of
really good experiences, uh, in

1033
00:43:02,795 --> 00:43:04,715
the lifestyle for her as far as

1034
00:43:04,715 --> 00:43:05,435
Nina

1035
00:43:05,435 --> 00:43:05,525
men.

1036
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:08,930
Nina girl, help me out.

1037
00:43:09,430 --> 00:43:14,200
So in, in, in your, in your swing
community, um, so a a a gang

1038
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:15,700
bang is in, in porn Atlanta.

1039
00:43:15,700 --> 00:43:19,480
Gang bang is five guys because
the airtight plus two hand jobs.

1040
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:23,770
So first you get to figure out in a
gang, bang, what are your boundaries?

1041
00:43:23,770 --> 00:43:24,760
Like, nothing in your butt.

1042
00:43:25,210 --> 00:43:25,870
What, what?

1043
00:43:25,930 --> 00:43:29,470
So you just have to know
when all the hands are on me.

1044
00:43:29,530 --> 00:43:33,010
I know that this is not gonna
happen out of the blue, right?

1045
00:43:33,130 --> 00:43:33,955
Whatever, what, and whatever.

1046
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:37,240
So whatever your, whatever your fuck
no boundary is, just know what that is.

1047
00:43:37,810 --> 00:43:43,000
Then you, if you can find
three to five guys who you

1048
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:45,340
have liked on other occasions.

1049
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:47,320
And so it might, it takes
a bit of planning, right?

1050
00:43:47,620 --> 00:43:48,790
Because, um,

1051
00:43:49,180 --> 00:43:50,920
logistically it sounds like a nightmare.

1052
00:43:51,420 --> 00:43:52,740
It's very challenging, but you can do,

1053
00:43:52,740 --> 00:43:52,830
right?

1054
00:43:52,830 --> 00:43:53,310
Very challenge.

1055
00:43:53,310 --> 00:43:57,270
So do you, so first, do you even
know three to five men from your

1056
00:43:57,270 --> 00:44:00,700
swing life that you would want
to be there for you in that way?

1057
00:44:00,915 --> 00:44:01,005
Yes.

1058
00:44:01,845 --> 00:44:02,475
You named five.

1059
00:44:02,535 --> 00:44:02,865
Okay.

1060
00:44:03,345 --> 00:44:08,895
Now, um, so what you do then is
individually at your own time,

1061
00:44:09,135 --> 00:44:10,125
talk to each of them separately.

1062
00:44:10,125 --> 00:44:11,685
Hey, I like to plan.

1063
00:44:11,715 --> 00:44:15,465
I'm playing gang bang for Christmas,
new year is my birthday, whatever

1064
00:44:15,465 --> 00:44:17,085
that, so make it enough in advance.

1065
00:44:17,085 --> 00:44:18,165
It's not like next weekend.

1066
00:44:18,555 --> 00:44:21,285
And to say, is that something
that you could be part of

1067
00:44:21,285 --> 00:44:21,945
7:00 PM tonight?

1068
00:44:22,395 --> 00:44:22,605
Right?

1069
00:44:22,785 --> 00:44:26,145
Um, and so, um, is that something
could be thing you wanna be part of,

1070
00:44:26,145 --> 00:44:30,165
you know, and, uh, and if the guys
know each other, that, that does help.

1071
00:44:30,665 --> 00:44:33,425
If you don't have a timeline, just
let it be known at parties that, that

1072
00:44:33,455 --> 00:44:34,865
this is something you want to arrange.

1073
00:44:34,865 --> 00:44:37,715
Are there any men who would like
to do something like that with me?

1074
00:44:38,215 --> 00:44:39,060
And see who, period.

1075
00:44:39,250 --> 00:44:39,540
Okay.

1076
00:44:39,540 --> 00:44:39,580
I can do that.

1077
00:44:39,580 --> 00:44:41,605
And you know, see who, see who shows up.

1078
00:44:41,725 --> 00:44:42,175
Um,

1079
00:44:42,265 --> 00:44:46,705
well, so we've noticed that there's a
lot of men who struggle to perform with

1080
00:44:46,705 --> 00:44:51,745
other men, uh, present there or, you
know, with people watching or whatever.

1081
00:44:51,745 --> 00:44:53,065
Like, like, um,

1082
00:44:53,125 --> 00:44:53,575
it's so hard.

1083
00:44:53,575 --> 00:44:55,465
How can you be a swinger,
not be exhibitionistic?

1084
00:44:56,245 --> 00:44:56,755
I, I don't know.

1085
00:44:56,845 --> 00:45:01,525
We we're total exhibitionists, so we
we're in the middle beds of the club in

1086
00:45:01,525 --> 00:45:03,295
front of everybody putting on a show.

1087
00:45:03,715 --> 00:45:05,305
Like, that's the way we get down.

1088
00:45:06,175 --> 00:45:07,645
We're gonna have you come over one night.

1089
00:45:08,155 --> 00:45:08,305
Yeah.

1090
00:45:08,805 --> 00:45:10,335
Nina Harley weekend, guys.

1091
00:45:10,835 --> 00:45:15,875
So I, I totally, I totally get
the, because in porno it happens

1092
00:45:15,875 --> 00:45:19,085
all the time, but these porno
men are not like other men.

1093
00:45:19,085 --> 00:45:20,250
Right, right.

1094
00:45:20,250 --> 00:45:22,145
Um, because, and that's
why they can do this.

1095
00:45:22,175 --> 00:45:27,395
Uh, and actually now I just discovered the
other day that more men than I was aware

1096
00:45:27,395 --> 00:45:29,975
of also inject their dicks, which make it.

1097
00:45:30,515 --> 00:45:34,625
Virtually super easy to be hard
because you're hard, because chemicals.

1098
00:45:35,045 --> 00:45:40,565
Um, so back in the day when I was making
movies, Dick worked or didn't work.

1099
00:45:40,565 --> 00:45:41,585
There's no help for you.

1100
00:45:41,585 --> 00:45:45,365
So the guy, the, the guy who could do
that work was a certain kind of guy.

1101
00:45:45,365 --> 00:45:49,025
A little bit misogynistic, a little
bit narcissistic, a little bit

1102
00:45:49,025 --> 00:45:54,455
sociopathic, um, yeah, and very self,
very self-involved because a porno

1103
00:45:54,455 --> 00:45:58,205
guy has to, on a good day, he has
someone who will help him on a bad day.

1104
00:45:58,205 --> 00:46:02,945
He has to do it all himself, with her as
a prop, uh, against which he is working.

1105
00:46:02,945 --> 00:46:07,385
So porn sex is super
not sexy and romantic.

1106
00:46:07,415 --> 00:46:10,325
Yeah, some pairings are
better than other pairings.

1107
00:46:10,325 --> 00:46:14,375
You know, I, and I've, um, but you
know, the men are working very hard

1108
00:46:14,375 --> 00:46:18,335
to stay hard for as long as they need
to and perform masculinity, right?

1109
00:46:18,365 --> 00:46:20,225
'cause porn is very heteronormative.

1110
00:46:20,225 --> 00:46:21,785
It's very FAO centric.

1111
00:46:21,785 --> 00:46:25,865
It's very linear and in real
life, you know, you do a little

1112
00:46:25,865 --> 00:46:26,855
of this, you do a little of that.

1113
00:46:26,855 --> 00:46:33,005
So, real life sex, especially swinging sex
as you know, is more, it's more feminine.

1114
00:46:33,245 --> 00:46:34,505
You start some, you stop.

1115
00:46:34,505 --> 00:46:37,445
Some you, you know, you may
fuck, but not come with her.

1116
00:46:37,475 --> 00:46:39,755
'cause you wanna stay your
orga for your partner later.

1117
00:46:40,175 --> 00:46:40,475
You know?

1118
00:46:40,475 --> 00:46:42,545
It's just more like what
feels good right now.

1119
00:46:42,665 --> 00:46:44,915
And porn, we have a
schedule, we have lunch.

1120
00:46:45,125 --> 00:46:46,865
We have to get this scene shot.

1121
00:46:47,555 --> 00:46:51,145
We have, once we have life, um, no, we're
waiting for, and porn we're waiting.

1122
00:46:51,145 --> 00:46:53,785
Your the only thing staying
between us and lunch is your dick.

1123
00:46:53,785 --> 00:46:55,435
So top, top, get to it.

1124
00:46:55,855 --> 00:46:57,415
Um, so porn is goodness.

1125
00:46:57,775 --> 00:47:00,265
Porn is, porn is so unsexy.

1126
00:47:00,265 --> 00:47:03,355
It's so unromantic and it's so industrial.

1127
00:47:03,445 --> 00:47:04,435
That is, that is.

1128
00:47:04,870 --> 00:47:05,920
That is porn, right?

1129
00:47:06,250 --> 00:47:08,920
Um, but it's because it's a
professional media product.

1130
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:09,880
It's not real life.

1131
00:47:10,180 --> 00:47:13,960
So start with, this is a get
it out there in the community.

1132
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:17,040
You know, I want a gang,
bang, this is what I wanna do.

1133
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:21,210
And then I'm, uh, if you're interested
in being part of my gang, bang, you

1134
00:47:21,210 --> 00:47:26,010
know, drop me, uh, send me your email and
we'll start, we'll start, we'll start a,

1135
00:47:26,010 --> 00:47:27,300
start the application process.

1136
00:47:27,330 --> 00:47:27,450
Yeah.

1137
00:47:27,510 --> 00:47:31,385
First you have to leave a good
review on our, uh, podcast and then,

1138
00:47:31,565 --> 00:47:33,900
and follow us and Nina Hartley

1139
00:47:34,710 --> 00:47:35,910
start the application process.

1140
00:47:35,910 --> 00:47:40,860
So this, this is a, this is a process,
um, because they're gonna be some guys

1141
00:47:40,860 --> 00:47:43,110
who love the idea, uh, the guys who don't.

1142
00:47:43,110 --> 00:47:47,610
And so they will not send you their
email for the, for the selection process.

1143
00:47:47,970 --> 00:47:51,990
Um, but it may take, you know,
six months to, to organize.

1144
00:47:52,170 --> 00:47:56,190
But once you have your team, you may
be able to have semi-annual gang bangs.

1145
00:47:56,850 --> 00:47:57,180
Right.

1146
00:47:57,480 --> 00:48:00,060
Um, years ago there was a
group of young men on the west

1147
00:48:00,060 --> 00:48:00,960
coast called the West Coast.

1148
00:48:01,020 --> 00:48:02,040
West Coast gang bangs.

1149
00:48:02,540 --> 00:48:05,180
Now there, there is a whole
gang paying subculture.

1150
00:48:05,540 --> 00:48:08,600
Um, uh, probably they're in Texas as well.

1151
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:12,800
Actually, I'll do some research for you
that these are men who, who this is what

1152
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:14,630
they, this is what, this is what they do.

1153
00:48:14,810 --> 00:48:20,890
Now that being said, that group is
often African American men because

1154
00:48:20,890 --> 00:48:23,380
there are many women out there who
are looking to be gang banged by

1155
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:25,835
black men while they're having black.

1156
00:48:25,875 --> 00:48:26,470
I have a question.

1157
00:48:26,740 --> 00:48:27,070
Yes.

1158
00:48:27,570 --> 00:48:28,830
Is it wrong?

1159
00:48:29,310 --> 00:48:33,660
I don't think it is, but I think our
culture and our community might think

1160
00:48:33,660 --> 00:48:38,550
it's wrong if you are attracted, I'm
not attracted to a lot of men a lot.

1161
00:48:38,550 --> 00:48:40,560
It's very hard for me to

1162
00:48:41,220 --> 00:48:41,400
like them.

1163
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:41,410
Okay.

1164
00:48:41,410 --> 00:48:41,640
Doesn't gonna make it hard.

1165
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:43,380
It's gonna be hard to get
your gang bang then if you're

1166
00:48:43,380 --> 00:48:43,470
not.

1167
00:48:43,470 --> 00:48:43,800
I know.

1168
00:48:43,950 --> 00:48:46,860
And, and, and a lot of our
friends have told me this,

1169
00:48:46,860 --> 00:48:48,210
you know, you can't be picky.

1170
00:48:49,140 --> 00:48:50,280
I can, you can be

1171
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:50,880
it into your body.

1172
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:51,570
You can be as picture as you

1173
00:48:51,570 --> 00:48:52,020
want.

1174
00:48:52,230 --> 00:48:54,120
This is my vagina, this is my mouth.

1175
00:48:54,930 --> 00:48:55,140
Thank you.

1176
00:48:55,140 --> 00:48:55,755
My is my,

1177
00:48:55,890 --> 00:48:56,100
this

1178
00:48:56,100 --> 00:48:59,100
is, yeah, this is not, and so I know
once they tell me that they're off

1179
00:48:59,100 --> 00:49:04,850
the list, but the ones who are very
supportive, and I find that that

1180
00:49:04,940 --> 00:49:07,310
is really hard in the community.

1181
00:49:07,370 --> 00:49:11,570
And that's why we can't, I can't
find like certain people now.

1182
00:49:11,630 --> 00:49:11,960
Now

1183
00:49:12,050 --> 00:49:15,110
if I'm just in it for eh
show, I need you to film.

1184
00:49:15,110 --> 00:49:17,450
Everybody has to be on only
fans, whatever, whatever.

1185
00:49:18,230 --> 00:49:19,160
Then I don't care.

1186
00:49:19,850 --> 00:49:23,620
But if it's for me and not a show.

1187
00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:24,450
Fantasy.

1188
00:49:24,540 --> 00:49:25,170
You get to care.

1189
00:49:25,170 --> 00:49:26,130
You, you get to care.

1190
00:49:26,250 --> 00:49:29,190
It's better to have the fantasy for
five years before living it out than

1191
00:49:29,190 --> 00:49:30,720
rushing it and having go, oh man.

1192
00:49:31,220 --> 00:49:33,200
So definitely, definitely screwed.

1193
00:49:33,500 --> 00:49:36,320
You get, you get to, so start the process.

1194
00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:37,730
I'm, I am, I am.

1195
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:39,680
I'm thinking I want a
gang bang for my 50th.

1196
00:49:40,010 --> 00:49:40,280
Right.

1197
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:43,520
So let's, you have, you have a two
year, two year timeline, and, and you'll

1198
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:48,590
just, you'll just, you know, um, you'll
just work your way through the process.

1199
00:49:48,590 --> 00:49:51,170
I like to go No, no, you, you'll work,
you'll work your way through the process.

1200
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:54,350
Um, so when you go to parties, you
may find, huh, there's a guy that

1201
00:49:54,350 --> 00:49:58,100
works really well with you and, and
your husband and on a two for one.

1202
00:49:58,100 --> 00:49:59,135
So he seemed pretty cool.

1203
00:49:59,135 --> 00:50:00,980
So he can go on the,
on the potential list.

1204
00:50:01,250 --> 00:50:01,460
Yeah.

1205
00:50:01,490 --> 00:50:05,950
Um, the, the, so first you get to have it.

1206
00:50:06,385 --> 00:50:08,155
You get to have, you get
to have what you want.

1207
00:50:08,245 --> 00:50:09,505
You get to have who you want.

1208
00:50:09,775 --> 00:50:13,195
You get to have it how you want, you
get to have it where you want, and

1209
00:50:13,195 --> 00:50:14,275
you get to have it when you want.

1210
00:50:14,605 --> 00:50:17,005
But because it is, you are working
with civilians and not, you're

1211
00:50:17,005 --> 00:50:19,405
not gonna hire five professionals
who know how to do this.

1212
00:50:19,705 --> 00:50:21,625
It's, the timeline is further.

1213
00:50:22,015 --> 00:50:22,465
That's all.

1214
00:50:22,465 --> 00:50:22,475
Yeah.

1215
00:50:22,735 --> 00:50:23,095
Yeah.

1216
00:50:23,305 --> 00:50:26,155
Because you have to work through
people's, uh, discomfort about

1217
00:50:26,665 --> 00:50:27,925
performing in the front of other men.

1218
00:50:28,255 --> 00:50:31,795
Um, so some guys that you'll, so we
go to parties, go, go to your parties,

1219
00:50:32,005 --> 00:50:34,555
pay attention who seems really ex,
who loves, who's the first one out

1220
00:50:34,555 --> 00:50:35,905
there to fuck in front other people?

1221
00:50:35,905 --> 00:50:39,775
Who's the first one to let him let himself
get his dick sucked on the dance floor.

1222
00:50:39,775 --> 00:50:41,365
So clearly that's an
exhibitionist, usually

1223
00:50:41,365 --> 00:50:41,485
me.

1224
00:50:41,985 --> 00:50:42,855
So you're, you're one of the

1225
00:50:42,855 --> 00:50:43,005
team.

1226
00:50:43,230 --> 00:50:44,625
You're so smart.

1227
00:50:44,625 --> 00:50:45,525
You're one, you're one of them.

1228
00:50:45,525 --> 00:50:46,845
So you're, you're on the team.

1229
00:50:46,935 --> 00:50:48,735
You, sir, are one of the five guys.

1230
00:50:48,825 --> 00:50:49,425
There you go.

1231
00:50:49,755 --> 00:50:51,405
Um, so you'll, you'll start.

1232
00:50:51,495 --> 00:50:55,035
So with, with this goal,
I'm very practical minded.

1233
00:50:55,035 --> 00:50:58,335
So with this goal, you'll start
looking at men at parties differently.

1234
00:50:58,335 --> 00:50:58,815
It's like, huh?

1235
00:50:59,315 --> 00:51:02,855
Because yes, bodies are important,
but in a gang bang, the energy's

1236
00:51:02,855 --> 00:51:04,775
important because you want
none of the men freaking out.

1237
00:51:04,925 --> 00:51:08,335
'cause you don't wanna have to,
um, babysit their emotions to make

1238
00:51:08,335 --> 00:51:09,805
them feel safe enough to get hard.

1239
00:51:09,805 --> 00:51:13,015
You wanna be able to go fuck and
take me away, calgon take me away.

1240
00:51:13,020 --> 00:51:13,080
Okay.

1241
00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:13,090
Um,

1242
00:51:13,825 --> 00:51:14,035
okay,

1243
00:51:14,065 --> 00:51:16,645
so one, when you do get the gang
bang, you do, if you have, do

1244
00:51:16,645 --> 00:51:18,175
you have any good girlfriends?

1245
00:51:19,015 --> 00:51:19,285
Yes.

1246
00:51:19,375 --> 00:51:19,435
Yeah.

1247
00:51:19,615 --> 00:51:19,915
Okay.

1248
00:51:19,915 --> 00:51:22,885
So you want one of them to be
your, your, your, um, handler.

1249
00:51:22,915 --> 00:51:26,245
So your job in the gang bang
is just to fucking go there.

1250
00:51:26,245 --> 00:51:29,425
And her job is to make sure
that all safely sex protocols

1251
00:51:29,425 --> 00:51:33,715
are being followed, condom are
switched out as they need to be.

1252
00:51:33,745 --> 00:51:35,395
Leg text gloves are used
that they need to be.

1253
00:51:35,395 --> 00:51:37,285
So her job is to not be in the scene.

1254
00:51:37,465 --> 00:51:41,665
Her job is to be making sure
that all the boxes are ticked.

1255
00:51:41,665 --> 00:51:44,785
So you can just like be the
slutty slut, slut having,

1256
00:51:44,785 --> 00:51:46,435
having this amazing experience.

1257
00:51:46,735 --> 00:51:49,255
Um, and she's gonna be the
one to offer to offer water.

1258
00:51:49,255 --> 00:51:51,475
She's gonna be the one to, you know,
say, do you need some chocolate?

1259
00:51:51,745 --> 00:51:52,105
Right?

1260
00:51:52,315 --> 00:51:52,465
Um,

1261
00:51:52,465 --> 00:51:53,260
you need some chocolate?

1262
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:56,220
Whatever your, whatever your,
your snack of choice is.

1263
00:51:56,550 --> 00:51:58,800
I, I totally 100% agree.

1264
00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:00,540
There should be one of
those for every party.

1265
00:52:00,750 --> 00:52:01,830
I had one once and

1266
00:52:02,250 --> 00:52:03,480
no, they, they're very,
they're very important.

1267
00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:08,310
They're, they just said that way the
guys can just, so, so no one has to,

1268
00:52:08,310 --> 00:52:11,130
and she, you know, obviously she can,
she can tickle a ball here and there,

1269
00:52:11,130 --> 00:52:12,630
but her, her job mainly is to care.

1270
00:52:12,635 --> 00:52:15,930
Take you, it's like a doula
for, for labor and delivery.

1271
00:52:16,230 --> 00:52:19,800
It is her, the, the,
there's no name for her.

1272
00:52:19,950 --> 00:52:22,200
I, I'm gonna call the, call
the, call her the, the, uh,

1273
00:52:22,205 --> 00:52:23,580
the, the, the gang bang doula.

1274
00:52:23,580 --> 00:52:27,360
But the doula, her job is to make sure
that you have the best experience and

1275
00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:31,410
manage as an interfaith between your
body and everybody else in the room,

1276
00:52:31,770 --> 00:52:35,940
and gatekeeper, and make sure that you
know, the looky-loos, don't get too close

1277
00:52:35,940 --> 00:52:37,650
and don't touch you without permission.

1278
00:52:37,650 --> 00:52:38,160
That kind of thing.

1279
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:40,650
So you can just go there and have that.

1280
00:52:41,205 --> 00:52:42,375
Oh man.

1281
00:52:42,375 --> 00:52:45,105
I'm so glad that we brought that
up because you know, she's been

1282
00:52:45,105 --> 00:52:46,425
talking about it for a while.

1283
00:52:46,935 --> 00:52:47,025
I know.

1284
00:52:47,025 --> 00:52:48,945
And we brought it up on
the show a few times.

1285
00:52:48,945 --> 00:52:53,445
And the thing is, is that I am
not a very good host of things.

1286
00:52:53,445 --> 00:52:54,555
Like I'm not good at events.

1287
00:52:54,555 --> 00:52:56,025
Like that's always been her thing.

1288
00:52:56,475 --> 00:52:59,595
And so I'm going, logistically
this sounds like a mess.

1289
00:52:59,835 --> 00:52:59,895
Yeah.

1290
00:52:59,895 --> 00:53:01,335
And I don't even know where to start

1291
00:53:01,605 --> 00:53:06,675
now, do you think, because now there's
so many, I mean, if you don't mind

1292
00:53:06,675 --> 00:53:08,685
me putting, talking about the pill.

1293
00:53:08,925 --> 00:53:09,015
Okay.

1294
00:53:09,555 --> 00:53:11,955
So Adam gets hurt easily.

1295
00:53:12,405 --> 00:53:13,635
Like it's not a problem.

1296
00:53:13,635 --> 00:53:16,245
He and I have a beautiful sex life.

1297
00:53:16,245 --> 00:53:18,465
Like people would be jealous

1298
00:53:18,615 --> 00:53:19,665
and I'm an exhibitionist, so

1299
00:53:19,750 --> 00:53:20,550
I love to perform

1300
00:53:20,550 --> 00:53:20,790
in front.

1301
00:53:21,060 --> 00:53:21,350
Yeah.

1302
00:53:21,450 --> 00:53:27,575
And so, but as he's gotten older and he,
we started playing at the clubs, you.

1303
00:53:28,075 --> 00:53:30,835
It's not very easily his, he's very

1304
00:53:31,825 --> 00:53:32,305
distracted by other

1305
00:53:32,305 --> 00:53:32,635
women.

1306
00:53:32,635 --> 00:53:32,935
Right.

1307
00:53:33,085 --> 00:53:36,505
So as an exhibitionist, I love, I
love to put on a show, but then as

1308
00:53:36,505 --> 00:53:39,685
soon as I see somebody getting hot
over our show and, and then I'm

1309
00:53:39,685 --> 00:53:42,615
all sudden, I'm looking at them and
I'm like, and things are changing.

1310
00:53:43,035 --> 00:53:47,870
So I, I try to, and I try to, uh,
pill, it's called Ro, it's called ro

1311
00:53:48,005 --> 00:53:48,665
RO,

1312
00:53:49,165 --> 00:53:53,605
and it's, it lasts, you take it as
a lozenge and it lasts 36 hours.

1313
00:53:53,995 --> 00:53:59,715
And essentially it's only when
I'm aroused, it makes it larger

1314
00:53:59,715 --> 00:54:02,295
almost and harder in a way.

1315
00:54:02,295 --> 00:54:03,315
It's the, it's You don't get from a

1316
00:54:03,315 --> 00:54:04,485
gas station, do you?

1317
00:54:05,175 --> 00:54:05,475
No.

1318
00:54:05,475 --> 00:54:05,805
No.

1319
00:54:05,810 --> 00:54:06,080
Uhuh, no.

1320
00:54:06,585 --> 00:54:07,605
It's doctor prescribed.

1321
00:54:07,605 --> 00:54:08,115
Yeah.

1322
00:54:08,205 --> 00:54:08,215
Yeah.

1323
00:54:08,595 --> 00:54:08,955
Yeah.

1324
00:54:09,455 --> 00:54:12,690
I am perfectly fine with that kind
of thing because whatever helps

1325
00:54:12,690 --> 00:54:16,020
a person be more relaxed in the
situation, have more confidence.

1326
00:54:16,650 --> 00:54:21,510
In the beginning of the, of the Viagra
era, I was, I was like, no, I, I,

1327
00:54:21,510 --> 00:54:26,160
I, I took pride in making it safe
enough for my partner to, to perform,

1328
00:54:26,370 --> 00:54:27,960
but then I realized, wait a minute.

1329
00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:31,830
If it makes it easier for him to be
more focused on what's going on than

1330
00:54:31,830 --> 00:54:32,940
just his dick, I'm fine with it.

1331
00:54:32,970 --> 00:54:37,080
So if any kind of, um,
medication helps you.

1332
00:54:38,070 --> 00:54:41,850
Perform in a way that you like and
also helps you stay more present?

1333
00:54:41,850 --> 00:54:42,270
I'm down.

1334
00:54:42,270 --> 00:54:43,235
I'm totally down for that.

1335
00:54:43,290 --> 00:54:43,740
Yeah.

1336
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:46,650
And so, yeah, it's like
parts the part Viagra.

1337
00:54:46,830 --> 00:54:47,010
Mm-hmm.

1338
00:54:47,250 --> 00:54:50,370
And, uh, you know, it,
it, it works very well.

1339
00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:54,540
Um, and if I, I don't really need it.

1340
00:54:54,545 --> 00:54:54,555
Yeah.

1341
00:54:54,555 --> 00:54:58,110
But it helps whenever we're putting
on a show, like if we know that we're

1342
00:54:58,110 --> 00:55:00,900
going to the club or we know that we're
gonna be at a house party, we know that

1343
00:55:00,900 --> 00:55:05,610
we're gonna have an audience, um, it
just takes the mind out it a little bit.

1344
00:55:05,610 --> 00:55:06,060
Perfect.

1345
00:55:06,930 --> 00:55:07,320
Go for it.

1346
00:55:07,710 --> 00:55:12,940
And that's like a lot of men don't,
they still have that mind that

1347
00:55:13,300 --> 00:55:14,920
women are gonna make fun of them.

1348
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:16,960
I was ashamed a lot because

1349
00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:18,220
a lot of women will make fun of them.

1350
00:55:18,700 --> 00:55:18,940
What?

1351
00:55:18,940 --> 00:55:19,930
I'm not enough for you.

1352
00:55:20,920 --> 00:55:21,820
I mean, so they, they see, and

1353
00:55:21,820 --> 00:55:23,260
for me it's the opposite.

1354
00:55:23,770 --> 00:55:24,605
Or for me, I'm,

1355
00:55:24,665 --> 00:55:24,885
I'm,

1356
00:55:24,890 --> 00:55:25,690
I'm okay.

1357
00:55:25,690 --> 00:55:26,650
I don't care.

1358
00:55:26,650 --> 00:55:32,580
Like be honest with yourself because
you trying to shove a soft dick

1359
00:55:32,580 --> 00:55:35,310
inside of me is just such a turnoff.

1360
00:55:35,910 --> 00:55:36,840
It, it is for sure.

1361
00:55:36,930 --> 00:55:40,230
So I, um, um, so you can be someone
out there saying, it's fine with me.

1362
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:43,590
'cause also they have to remember, it
doesn't, unless you're doing injectables,

1363
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:45,210
it doesn't give you an erection.

1364
00:55:45,210 --> 00:55:48,450
It just makes it more able,
when you feel safe enough to

1365
00:55:48,450 --> 00:55:49,620
expose yourself in that way.

1366
00:55:50,100 --> 00:55:50,190
Yes.

1367
00:55:50,190 --> 00:55:54,180
So if you are trying to shove, if your
dick is not hard in public, you are not

1368
00:55:54,180 --> 00:55:55,680
really, my first husband was like that.

1369
00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:59,070
He actually, it broke his heart when
he realized he was not exhibitionistic.

1370
00:55:59,070 --> 00:56:02,370
He was actually super introverted
and he could not, he did not perform

1371
00:56:02,370 --> 00:56:04,680
well at swing parties and he could
not make porno movies with me.

1372
00:56:05,100 --> 00:56:06,480
And he had hoped maybe he could.

1373
00:56:06,930 --> 00:56:11,270
Um, and so that was a real
heartbreak, ego break for him.

1374
00:56:11,300 --> 00:56:15,050
Um, yeah, because he had, he had a really
nice dick and he had some good mood, you

1375
00:56:15,050 --> 00:56:16,190
know, I mean, and did the whole thing.

1376
00:56:16,190 --> 00:56:20,110
So I, I felt bad for him, but he
never, if he had asked at me, asked

1377
00:56:20,110 --> 00:56:23,590
me outright to quit porn, I would've
kicked him to the curb and he just,

1378
00:56:24,220 --> 00:56:25,600
and that's neither here nor there.

1379
00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:31,000
So if you're not, if you're not action
exhibitionist, the drugs barely help.

1380
00:56:31,500 --> 00:56:32,100
Emotionally.

1381
00:56:32,700 --> 00:56:33,330
Oh, I've told that before.

1382
00:56:33,330 --> 00:56:33,390
Yeah.

1383
00:56:33,390 --> 00:56:34,155
No, because they don't wondering

1384
00:56:34,155 --> 00:56:34,315
about,

1385
00:56:34,775 --> 00:56:39,060
unless you use an injection caverject,
which is going to absolutely get you

1386
00:56:39,060 --> 00:56:42,630
hard, even if you're in the middle
of grief because it is a chemical

1387
00:56:43,020 --> 00:56:50,070
direct injection into, into the, um,
corpus cavernosum, um, your emotion

1388
00:56:50,070 --> 00:56:52,350
should be in part of your erection.

1389
00:56:52,620 --> 00:56:57,750
And so men who really can't perform
well, either in public, in a pressure

1390
00:56:57,750 --> 00:57:03,440
situation or with condoms, probably should
not go to swing parties or just go to

1391
00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:04,940
swing parties and eat a lot of pussy.

1392
00:57:05,510 --> 00:57:05,780
Yeah.

1393
00:57:06,170 --> 00:57:07,970
Well, there's some that you, you can see.

1394
00:57:08,090 --> 00:57:08,210
Yeah,

1395
00:57:08,210 --> 00:57:09,980
I have, and well, I've noticed that.

1396
00:57:09,980 --> 00:57:14,940
And then I did recently, um,
was with somebody and he did two

1397
00:57:14,940 --> 00:57:16,045
things that I absolutely love.

1398
00:57:16,545 --> 00:57:18,855
He couldn't get hard with me.

1399
00:57:18,975 --> 00:57:22,665
And he said to his wife, Hey,
honey, can, can you help?

1400
00:57:23,115 --> 00:57:25,515
Because that's what I do in
the very, very beginning.

1401
00:57:25,515 --> 00:57:27,105
I would always be like, I, I'll help you.

1402
00:57:27,465 --> 00:57:33,095
And so he did that and I was like,
that right there was was you like, you

1403
00:57:33,095 --> 00:57:35,915
know, you're, you don't have to let,
you don't have to try and you don't,

1404
00:57:36,875 --> 00:57:40,775
aren't, you know, asking me to take
care of you because obviously I can't.

1405
00:57:41,345 --> 00:57:44,105
Um, that was one thing he did.

1406
00:57:44,105 --> 00:57:46,085
And then I can't remember
the second thing.

1407
00:57:46,585 --> 00:57:46,885
Um.

1408
00:57:47,385 --> 00:57:47,865
I don't know.

1409
00:57:47,865 --> 00:57:51,015
I mean, I, I know that was the primary
thing you were very excited about

1410
00:57:51,015 --> 00:57:52,575
because that doesn't happen very often.

1411
00:57:52,575 --> 00:57:52,635
Yeah.

1412
00:57:52,995 --> 00:57:56,865
You know, a lot of times these guys, they
wanna pretend like it's not happening

1413
00:57:57,255 --> 00:57:59,685
or it's gonna go away in just a second.

1414
00:57:59,715 --> 00:58:01,575
You know, let's just keep trying this.

1415
00:58:01,875 --> 00:58:05,265
And it's obviously a
major turnoff for her.

1416
00:58:05,775 --> 00:58:09,315
And, you know, it, it hasn't
happened very often, but when it's

1417
00:58:09,315 --> 00:58:13,545
happened to me, I go straight to
her and she's my security anyway.

1418
00:58:13,545 --> 00:58:17,295
So it's like I know that
she can pull me out of that.

1419
00:58:17,925 --> 00:58:23,055
Uh, but I, I know a, a a lot of guys
that they're just gonna continue on.

1420
00:58:23,145 --> 00:58:23,265
Yeah.

1421
00:58:23,765 --> 00:58:24,055
Yeah.

1422
00:58:24,235 --> 00:58:26,720
And, but pretend it's not
happy, you can't talk about it.

1423
00:58:26,720 --> 00:58:32,030
So the, there's still a lot
of emotional constipation in

1424
00:58:32,030 --> 00:58:33,860
the swing community as well.

1425
00:58:33,950 --> 00:58:37,910
Um, because we don't have good
role models for healthy, masculine,

1426
00:58:38,060 --> 00:58:40,370
um, um, alternative ways of being.

1427
00:58:40,760 --> 00:58:41,390
Um,

1428
00:58:41,660 --> 00:58:41,960
yeah.

1429
00:58:42,140 --> 00:58:44,150
Uh, so.

1430
00:58:44,735 --> 00:58:47,105
And also when dealing with
our age category, right?

1431
00:58:47,105 --> 00:58:47,765
It's just there.

1432
00:58:47,795 --> 00:58:50,705
So people your age are on the
cusp of the old way of being

1433
00:58:50,705 --> 00:58:52,235
raised and then the new culture.

1434
00:58:52,235 --> 00:58:56,945
So it, it's, it's, you know, the,
the, the anti-sex things got into

1435
00:58:56,945 --> 00:59:02,095
you early because you're old enough
that still have been the way that the

1436
00:59:02,095 --> 00:59:03,985
raised kids, you know, in the eighties.

1437
00:59:04,075 --> 00:59:04,405
Right?

1438
00:59:04,410 --> 00:59:04,420
Right.

1439
00:59:04,735 --> 00:59:06,595
Um, I mean, I'm just,
I'm barely old enough.

1440
00:59:06,895 --> 00:59:09,505
If I'd had a baby from my
first intercourse, they'd

1441
00:59:09,505 --> 00:59:10,765
be turning 48 this year.

1442
00:59:11,155 --> 00:59:13,195
So I'm, I'm old enough to be both
of your parents, but I'm no one's

1443
00:59:13,195 --> 00:59:14,335
parents, so it's not creepy.

1444
00:59:14,665 --> 00:59:14,995
Um,

1445
00:59:15,495 --> 00:59:15,990
are you my mom?

1446
00:59:16,490 --> 00:59:21,470
I, I've, I've fantasized, uh, enough
about you to where it is very not creepy.

1447
00:59:21,470 --> 00:59:21,680
Like

1448
00:59:21,680 --> 00:59:22,910
do you get that a lot?

1449
00:59:22,910 --> 00:59:23,705
I mean, because I'm excited.

1450
00:59:23,785 --> 00:59:25,130
I, I, I, I, I do.

1451
00:59:25,130 --> 00:59:28,190
I mean, obviously there are a lot of guys
who are now in their twenties who, who you

1452
00:59:28,190 --> 00:59:30,110
know, oh, I really, really wanna fuck you.

1453
00:59:30,115 --> 00:59:31,130
I I don't say this to him.

1454
00:59:31,130 --> 00:59:35,690
It's like, sweetheart, you, you couldn't,
you couldn't, you would die with a hand.

1455
00:59:35,720 --> 00:59:36,620
You, no, you can't.

1456
00:59:36,890 --> 00:59:39,110
Did they get, but what,
what else do they know?

1457
00:59:39,230 --> 00:59:39,560
Right?

1458
00:59:39,560 --> 00:59:43,730
They, they, they see porn and they think,
yeah, being a man is all about this.

1459
00:59:43,735 --> 00:59:44,025
Yeah.

1460
00:59:44,060 --> 00:59:45,860
And that all women want this.

1461
00:59:45,860 --> 00:59:48,380
And then all the cougars,
they want this because cougars

1462
00:59:48,380 --> 00:59:50,420
seeking cubs and all the things.

1463
00:59:50,420 --> 00:59:57,950
So if your only experience of age gap
sex is porn, it's super skewed, a little

1464
00:59:57,950 --> 01:00:00,720
bit shallow and sort of narrow, right?

1465
01:00:00,725 --> 01:00:02,315
I can make porn's not about feelings.

1466
01:00:02,645 --> 01:00:05,495
Porn's not about feelings,
which of course, women in

1467
01:00:05,495 --> 01:00:06,995
the real world do care about.

1468
01:00:07,295 --> 01:00:09,815
So I tell people I'm never with
somebody because young or because

1469
01:00:09,815 --> 01:00:12,680
old, or because black or because
white, if I like you enough.

1470
01:00:13,430 --> 01:00:14,365
To be in your bed.

1471
01:00:14,365 --> 01:00:14,450
Your bed.

1472
01:00:14,870 --> 01:00:16,850
I'm going to like, whatever
you have between your legs,

1473
01:00:17,210 --> 01:00:18,500
we're gonna have a great time.

1474
01:00:19,400 --> 01:00:21,050
I do everything I can with anyone.

1475
01:00:21,050 --> 01:00:24,830
I'm with what that actually is, depends.

1476
01:00:25,700 --> 01:00:28,400
But I'm never gonna turn
you down because you're 20.

1477
01:00:29,180 --> 01:00:30,860
I'll turn you down
because you're an asshole.

1478
01:00:31,580 --> 01:00:33,500
And you know, do, do, do like black men.

1479
01:00:33,620 --> 01:00:34,370
I like men.

1480
01:00:34,430 --> 01:00:39,680
If I like you, your Melan nation
and your age over 18 doesn't hurt.

1481
01:00:39,980 --> 01:00:41,990
And if I don't like you, it doesn't help.

1482
01:00:42,490 --> 01:00:43,000
Gotcha.

1483
01:00:43,005 --> 01:00:44,260
I, I don't, I don't fetishize race.

1484
01:00:44,260 --> 01:00:45,700
So if you're an asshole,
you're an asshole.

1485
01:00:45,700 --> 01:00:48,160
I don't care that you're age a
beautiful version of whatever

1486
01:00:48,160 --> 01:00:49,420
it is you are, you're a jerk.

1487
01:00:49,450 --> 01:00:50,560
I don't want anything to do with you.

1488
01:00:50,950 --> 01:00:51,605
So, yeah,

1489
01:00:51,605 --> 01:00:52,270
yeah, yeah.

1490
01:00:52,420 --> 01:00:56,050
They, we don't tell boys this, that,
you know, actually, you know, and I

1491
01:00:56,050 --> 01:00:59,200
tell men all the time, it's really
important, you know, it's a woman

1492
01:00:59,260 --> 01:01:01,090
needs to feel safe next to you.

1493
01:01:01,590 --> 01:01:04,410
She feel she needs to feel,
she needs to be next to a calm

1494
01:01:04,410 --> 01:01:06,060
person who is a safe space.

1495
01:01:06,060 --> 01:01:08,100
Because if she's not feeling
safe, she cannot feel sexy.

1496
01:01:08,520 --> 01:01:10,860
'cause in our culture, sex is
much more dangerous for women.

1497
01:01:10,860 --> 01:01:14,910
So if she feels any kinda weird
energy coming off of you, anxiety,

1498
01:01:15,120 --> 01:01:20,775
tension, expectation, you know,
barely controlled rage or narcissism,

1499
01:01:21,065 --> 01:01:24,170
we're not going to relax enough with
you to wanna be sexual with you.

1500
01:01:24,650 --> 01:01:24,980
Yeah.

1501
01:01:25,275 --> 01:01:25,575
You know?

1502
01:01:25,595 --> 01:01:26,570
But you know, it does.

1503
01:01:27,350 --> 01:01:30,890
I feel like we also have to educate
our women in that because a lot of

1504
01:01:30,890 --> 01:01:36,410
women are still, and they stay in
relationships that are that hard,

1505
01:01:36,440 --> 01:01:40,850
that don't have men like what I have
that are like, you're, you know, women

1506
01:01:40,850 --> 01:01:42,800
empowerment, like you do your thing.

1507
01:01:43,700 --> 01:01:46,190
But Tara, you know, so they say it
takes an average of seven attempts of

1508
01:01:46,190 --> 01:01:47,930
before a person to leave their abuser.

1509
01:01:47,930 --> 01:01:50,690
And so my abuse was so subtle
and emotional, it took me

1510
01:01:50,720 --> 01:01:52,370
18 years to leave, right?

1511
01:01:52,490 --> 01:01:52,580
Mm-hmm.

1512
01:01:52,820 --> 01:01:55,490
Because they were smart enough to
never actually lay a hand on me.

1513
01:01:55,490 --> 01:01:56,690
That would've been instant.

1514
01:01:57,110 --> 01:01:58,265
Deal breaker, but yes,

1515
01:01:58,265 --> 01:01:58,425
yes.

1516
01:01:58,430 --> 01:01:59,780
They weren't, they weren't stupid.

1517
01:02:00,200 --> 01:02:03,050
They were other kinds of
things, but they weren't stupid.

1518
01:02:03,350 --> 01:02:06,785
And so they knew Yeah, they had
one of each, so they, they knew.

1519
01:02:06,790 --> 01:02:10,820
They knew that, that if I never
said, handed me, it's over.

1520
01:02:10,820 --> 01:02:11,450
They just knew.

1521
01:02:11,510 --> 01:02:16,550
And I knew because I be, but back in the,
back in the eighties, abuse was only ever

1522
01:02:16,550 --> 01:02:18,410
spoken of at that point as physical abuse.

1523
01:02:18,470 --> 01:02:21,440
The whole narcissistic abuse
had, it's only been talked

1524
01:02:21,440 --> 01:02:22,370
about what, for five years.

1525
01:02:22,370 --> 01:02:25,400
I mean, it's brand new in terms
of a thing that we now talk about.

1526
01:02:25,400 --> 01:02:31,280
They recognize that narcissistic abuse
is as, you know, often part and parcel

1527
01:02:31,280 --> 01:02:35,210
with physical abuse, but certainly
its own, its own level of, of bad.

1528
01:02:35,990 --> 01:02:36,260
Right?

1529
01:02:36,560 --> 01:02:36,590
Oh

1530
01:02:36,920 --> 01:02:37,250
yeah,

1531
01:02:37,750 --> 01:02:38,080
yeah.

1532
01:02:38,080 --> 01:02:38,500
You know,

1533
01:02:38,740 --> 01:02:40,000
we'll have to do this again.

1534
01:02:40,090 --> 01:02:41,050
We'll have to have another

1535
01:02:41,650 --> 01:02:44,500
go, you know, and we're actually
gonna go ahead and wrap up.

1536
01:02:44,800 --> 01:02:48,940
Uh, but Nina, before we let you go,
uh, if you could tell our audience

1537
01:02:48,940 --> 01:02:51,965
where they can find you, what you got
going on, how to support your work.

1538
01:02:52,300 --> 01:02:54,010
The floor is yours.

1539
01:02:54,610 --> 01:02:55,660
Well, thank you so much.

1540
01:02:55,690 --> 01:02:57,070
Uh, first great conversation.

1541
01:02:57,070 --> 01:02:57,940
We need more of it.

1542
01:02:58,330 --> 01:03:02,680
Um, the main places to find
me online are Nina live, LIVE.

1543
01:03:02,890 --> 01:03:06,310
That is my Safe for Work, um, platform.

1544
01:03:06,310 --> 01:03:10,210
It's got my blog there and you people
who wanna just come and talk to me

1545
01:03:10,210 --> 01:03:15,340
about anything can schedule, uh, zoom
calls, uh, safe for work, zoom calls,

1546
01:03:15,400 --> 01:03:17,800
uh, and consult with me on anything.

1547
01:03:17,860 --> 01:03:25,120
So at Nina live and nina.com is where
my video store is and where I do, uh,

1548
01:03:25,240 --> 01:03:27,220
there 20 hours a week and hang out.

1549
01:03:27,310 --> 01:03:32,920
Um, and that's where we can do
naked things and um, you know, naked

1550
01:03:32,920 --> 01:03:34,420
cam to cam and that kind of stuff.

1551
01:03:34,720 --> 01:03:36,190
So nina.com is, I'll

1552
01:03:36,190 --> 01:03:37,090
be seeing you there,

1553
01:03:37,150 --> 01:03:42,220
that nina.com is not safe for work
and Nina live is safe for work and

1554
01:03:42,220 --> 01:03:45,940
both of those places are where you
can contact, uh, talk to me live.

1555
01:03:46,440 --> 01:03:47,520
my Instagram is.

1556
01:03:48,510 --> 01:03:51,540
Miss Nina Hartley.

1557
01:03:51,540 --> 01:03:53,370
There are many fake Insta out there.

1558
01:03:53,460 --> 01:03:58,410
And my Twitter handle at
Nina land, N-I-N-A-L-A-N-D.

1559
01:03:58,860 --> 01:04:01,560
And there are plenty of
fake Ninas out there.

1560
01:04:01,560 --> 01:04:02,760
I'm not on TikTok.

1561
01:04:02,760 --> 01:04:06,060
So if you see anybody on TikTok claiming
to be me, you can report their asses.

1562
01:04:06,090 --> 01:04:08,310
'cause I am not on, they, they
still, I can see it, they steal my

1563
01:04:08,310 --> 01:04:11,940
videos and then say things really
send me money and I'll call you.

1564
01:04:11,940 --> 01:04:13,620
It's just, it's just such a scam.

1565
01:04:13,620 --> 01:04:17,160
And, and I, oh God, I, I had to have a
full-time person just going and putting

1566
01:04:17,160 --> 01:04:18,510
out those brush fires, which I don't.

1567
01:04:18,930 --> 01:04:26,220
Um, so, um, I'm on Instagram, I'm on
x I'm not on, I'm not on, um, TikTok.

1568
01:04:26,220 --> 01:04:27,960
I do have a Facebook, but I don't,

1569
01:04:28,020 --> 01:04:29,505
I saw your Facebook pop up on,

1570
01:04:29,550 --> 01:04:32,130
but there are, there are lots of
fake, there are lots of fake Facebooks

1571
01:04:32,280 --> 01:04:35,220
there as well, so I'm not quite
sure what my Facebook handle is.

1572
01:04:35,720 --> 01:04:36,350
It's okay.

1573
01:04:36,860 --> 01:04:37,640
We'll find it for you.

1574
01:04:38,570 --> 01:04:40,460
But when it comes to social
media, I'm very much a boomer.

1575
01:04:40,591 --> 01:04:42,121
I'm just, I've just come back.

1576
01:04:42,121 --> 01:04:43,591
I've started making movies again.

1577
01:04:43,621 --> 01:04:47,791
Um, I am doing everything but,
uh, what we call PIV intercourse.

1578
01:04:48,241 --> 01:04:54,061
So, um, kink, femdom, girl, girl
help, help two other people have sex.

1579
01:04:54,121 --> 01:04:58,621
Um, help you fuck him, help him
fuck her, uh, that kind of thing.

1580
01:04:58,621 --> 01:05:03,751
So, I love, I love being on camera,
but, but my, but my, again, I gave

1581
01:05:03,751 --> 01:05:07,771
it the, my vagina has given at the
office and I am post-menopausal, and

1582
01:05:07,771 --> 01:05:12,886
the, the level of penis that I can
take and enjoy is not camera worthy.

1583
01:05:13,386 --> 01:05:14,951
I, I like a, a nice five inch here.

1584
01:05:15,581 --> 01:05:16,631
So nice four inches.

1585
01:05:16,721 --> 01:05:18,401
Nice humanized thing.

1586
01:05:18,401 --> 01:05:18,491
Good

1587
01:05:18,491 --> 01:05:19,691
enough for satisfaction.

1588
01:05:19,691 --> 01:05:23,111
You know that, that answers the age
old question that guys seem to wanna

1589
01:05:23,111 --> 01:05:24,941
know is, you know, does size matter?

1590
01:05:25,031 --> 01:05:25,241
Got it.

1591
01:05:25,361 --> 01:05:26,571
For some women it does.

1592
01:05:26,571 --> 01:05:27,401
For some women it does.

1593
01:05:27,401 --> 01:05:31,841
So I'm gonna, so I'm gonna say 15% of
women are two size queens, seven plus,

1594
01:05:31,841 --> 01:05:33,131
or don't even fucking talk to them.

1595
01:05:33,341 --> 01:05:34,511
They're built very roomy.

1596
01:05:34,661 --> 01:05:35,501
That's what they like.

1597
01:05:35,801 --> 01:05:38,981
They're like a certain level of
discomfort, intensity that works for them.

1598
01:05:39,481 --> 01:05:43,321
15% of women can take more than
six, but don't need more than six.

1599
01:05:43,321 --> 01:05:46,411
But, you know, in the right
situation, they could, that leaves

1600
01:05:46,911 --> 01:05:51,471
15, 15, 30, at least 70% of women
out there happy with sticks and

1601
01:05:51,471 --> 01:05:53,441
under happy with sticks and under.

1602
01:05:53,441 --> 01:05:54,701
Yeah, like, nice.

1603
01:05:54,881 --> 01:05:56,051
So the, the perfect size.

1604
01:05:56,951 --> 01:05:59,621
Yeah, I'm, I'm definitely, I'm definitely
the, I'm definitely the under six.

1605
01:06:00,401 --> 01:06:01,991
I'm definitely the under six crowd because

1606
01:06:02,321 --> 01:06:02,591
yeah,

1607
01:06:02,591 --> 01:06:06,791
I want to, I want at some point in the
process to be able, for you to be able to

1608
01:06:06,791 --> 01:06:09,791
go hog fucking wild, crazy monkey shit.

1609
01:06:09,821 --> 01:06:10,751
Like, fuck me.

1610
01:06:10,991 --> 01:06:13,841
Sometimes I wanna be nailed into
the bed for 20 seconds at a time.

1611
01:06:14,141 --> 01:06:16,871
But to do that, to really
feel all of, I like seeing all

1612
01:06:16,871 --> 01:06:18,131
that masculine energy come in.

1613
01:06:18,131 --> 01:06:21,521
For me, a penis is just a delivery
system for, for masculine energy.

1614
01:06:21,851 --> 01:06:26,501
And so I, I like a good deep injection,
but for that, so what, what is good

1615
01:06:26,501 --> 01:06:30,551
and deep for me is a different size
than what is good and deep for her.

1616
01:06:31,301 --> 01:06:35,141
And so I want a size penis that he
can, if he wants to just go full

1617
01:06:35,141 --> 01:06:37,241
till boogie and not have it go out.

1618
01:06:37,741 --> 01:06:38,071
Right.

1619
01:06:38,071 --> 01:06:42,271
And for that cheese o cheese yaa
and, and we're done tapping out.

1620
01:06:42,511 --> 01:06:47,011
So, um, for me that, so for that kind
of sec it's five inches for sure.

1621
01:06:47,401 --> 01:06:50,041
Okay, well, sorry you got distracted.

1622
01:06:50,281 --> 01:06:50,351
Hi, Dina.

1623
01:06:50,351 --> 01:06:55,471
Dina, thank you for nina.com for
Not Safe for work, Nuna live safe

1624
01:06:55,471 --> 01:06:58,741
for work, and I look forward to
talking with anybody about anything.

1625
01:06:59,191 --> 01:07:02,671
Hell yes, go and find her, follow her
and support everything that she's doing

1626
01:07:02,671 --> 01:07:07,261
because people like Nina are the reason
that these conversations even exist.

1627
01:07:07,381 --> 01:07:08,011
Seriously, we're

1628
01:07:08,011 --> 01:07:09,871
so grateful to have you on here, Nina.

1629
01:07:09,871 --> 01:07:10,201
Thank you.

1630
01:07:10,201 --> 01:07:10,656
Well, we'll see.

1631
01:07:10,656 --> 01:07:12,751
We'll love to do it again
sometime and we'll talk about

1632
01:07:12,751 --> 01:07:14,161
how does gang bang planning.

1633
01:07:14,341 --> 01:07:16,711
So just to think about, I'm gonna
get a gang bang for my 50th.

1634
01:07:16,796 --> 01:07:16,886
Yes,

1635
01:07:17,386 --> 01:07:17,666
absolutely.

1636
01:07:17,871 --> 01:07:21,111
And, and that, and that, and that takes
the pressure off of, you know, the, okay.

1637
01:07:21,111 --> 01:07:21,121
Okay.

1638
01:07:21,411 --> 01:07:23,301
Because you can plan it, you
can, you can totally plan it.

1639
01:07:23,301 --> 01:07:23,481
Can hell

1640
01:07:24,381 --> 01:07:24,771
yeah.

1641
01:07:25,131 --> 01:07:25,401
Yes.

1642
01:07:25,681 --> 01:07:29,751
So before we close out head tomy com,
right now, every episode, every blog,

1643
01:07:30,051 --> 01:07:34,941
video clips, merch, our events calendar,
guest bios of the awesome Nina Hartley.

1644
01:07:34,971 --> 01:07:35,061
Mm-hmm.

1645
01:07:35,481 --> 01:07:38,781
Uh, and our hundred percent anonymous
confessional are all right there.

1646
01:07:38,781 --> 01:07:39,261
That's a great

1647
01:07:39,471 --> 01:07:39,771
thing.

1648
01:07:40,041 --> 01:07:40,491
Anonymous.

1649
01:07:40,491 --> 01:07:40,911
I love it.

1650
01:07:41,451 --> 01:07:42,171
Yeah.

1651
01:07:42,171 --> 01:07:43,011
It's my favorite.

1652
01:07:43,431 --> 01:07:47,196
And if you're not subscribed yet,
whatcha waiting for Hit that Follow

1653
01:07:47,196 --> 01:07:48,936
button on Spotify Apple Podcast.

1654
01:07:48,936 --> 01:07:50,976
Wherever you're listening,
it's free and helps us.

1655
01:07:51,686 --> 01:07:52,676
More than you know.

1656
01:07:53,006 --> 01:07:53,456
Yeah.

1657
01:07:53,456 --> 01:07:55,916
And leave us a five star review
there because you know what?

1658
01:07:55,916 --> 01:07:58,826
This show was freaking
awesome today and I loved it.

1659
01:07:58,826 --> 01:07:59,606
So definitely.

1660
01:07:59,816 --> 01:08:02,966
And share this episode, send it to
your partner, drop it in your group

1661
01:08:02,966 --> 01:08:04,946
chat, post it on your communities.

1662
01:08:05,216 --> 01:08:07,886
If this conversation did
anything for you, pass it on.

1663
01:08:07,946 --> 01:08:08,216
Yeah.

1664
01:08:08,216 --> 01:08:11,306
And you can also catch us
at uh, beyond Monogamy.

1665
01:08:11,306 --> 01:08:13,916
We are streaming on
full swap radio do com.

1666
01:08:13,916 --> 01:08:18,476
So go ahead and check that out along with
the cavalcade of other adult podcasters.

1667
01:08:18,976 --> 01:08:23,596
And guys, and if you're anywhere near
San Antonio, we wanna see you in person.

1668
01:08:23,596 --> 01:08:26,536
We are going to be at Club
Eden, San Antonio, June 20th at

1669
01:08:26,566 --> 01:08:28,066
9:00 PM Come hang out with us.

1670
01:08:28,516 --> 01:08:28,816
Yeah.

1671
01:08:28,816 --> 01:08:30,226
Details are on the site.

1672
01:08:30,226 --> 01:08:33,306
The events tab, www not beyond com.

1673
01:08:33,726 --> 01:08:35,406
Uh, Nina, thank you again.

1674
01:08:35,406 --> 01:08:37,266
We really appreciate you.

1675
01:08:37,266 --> 01:08:38,331
We frigging love you man.

1676
01:08:38,461 --> 01:08:38,971
Thank you.

1677
01:08:38,971 --> 01:08:39,731
Thanks so much, so much.

1678
01:08:39,731 --> 01:08:39,981
Well thank you.

1679
01:08:39,981 --> 01:08:42,606
Have a great rest of your day
and thanks for having me on.

1680
01:08:42,606 --> 01:08:43,731
I so enjoyed it, appreci,

1681
01:08:43,731 --> 01:08:44,891
you and that.

1682
01:08:45,156 --> 01:08:47,916
We thank you guys for listening
and we'll see you guys next week.

1683
01:08:48,156 --> 01:08:48,966
Bye.