Non-Monogamy on Your Own Terms: Growth, Jealousy & Freedom with Evita "Lavitaloca" Sawyers

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Alright y'all, before we
dive in, a quick heads up.

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This show is raw, real, and
definitely not rated pg.

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We're talking about adult themes, sexual
content, and the kind of stuff you

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probably don't want blasting through your
speakers at work or around your kits.

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So grab some headphones, pour your
drink of choice and get comfy.

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Oh, and just so we're clear, we are not
licensed therapists, counselors, or sex.

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Couches.

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Sex coaches.

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Sex coaches, not sex couches

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or just a couple of people sharing our
lives, experiences and sexy adventures.

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An ethical non-monogamy.

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So with that, pull up a
chair and enjoy the show.

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And.

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Hello, and welcome to another
episode of Beyond Monogamy.

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I'm Adam.

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And I'm Pris.

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And today we are diving deep into
something that hits close to home

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For a lot of people in this space,
especially me, what it really means to

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live non-monogamy on your own terms.

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We're not talking about following
somebody else's playbook or

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trying to fit your relationship
into a box with a fancy label.

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What we are talking about here is
how you evolve, how you feel, how

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you grow through all the messy,
beautiful parts of open love.

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And joining us for this one is
someone who's been as real as

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hell about that exact journey.

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Evita "Lavitaloca" Sawyers.

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Yes.

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Evita is a speaker, author, and a
relationship coach who's known for

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keeping it unapologetically honest when
it comes to non-monogamy emotional work

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and communication that actually works.

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You've probably seen her online dropping
these daily truth bombs on today's

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polyamory reminder or maybe you've
read her book, a polyamory devotional.

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Either way you already know.

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She brings it.

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Evita, we are so glad to have you here.

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So welcome to the show.

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Yes, welcome to the show.

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Hi.

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Hi.

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Happy Sunday.

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Good morning.

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I'm so happy to be here.

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I'm really looking forward to this.

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Yeah.

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You know, we are really
glad that you could make it.

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We we actually have been sitting
down, we've been watching, uh,

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some of your reels on Instagram.

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Yes.

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Some of your content.

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We were literally sitting on the couch
yesterday just listening to you talk.

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So we feel like we are prepared for you.

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Yes.

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Yes, we are.

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Am I prepared for you though?

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We'll see.

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Bring it on.

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Let's do this.

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I don't know, man.

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Now Evita, I, I got to know,
and this is pretty much how I

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start with all of my guests.

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I'm just really, really curious.

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How you got here as far as non-monogamy.

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I know that there's not a, we're gonna get
into labels and that sort of thing, and

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I, I don't know how you feel about labels.

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But as far as where you are
at currently and what you're

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experiencing, how did you get here?

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Wow.

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Gosh,

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that's such a, that's such
a loaded question, isn't it?

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It is such a loaded question, but I always
like to say that I evolved to this place,

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which is funny because, you know, I did
have an entry partner, um, uh, which

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is what I call, uh, the partner that
someone enters into non-monogamy with.

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Um, not everyone enters from
a partnered space, but I did.

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I was married at the time.

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Um, and, um, we started with
non-monogamy as a way for me to like.

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Explore my sexuality.

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So I was monogamously married to a man.

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Mm-hmm.

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Um, and was still kind of
struggling with whether or not I was

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straight, whether or not I was gay.

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Something in between, you know?

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Yeah.

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And, um, yeah.

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And so, I was really kind of
struggling in my marriage and kind

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of like going, I don't know if, you
know, I really enjoy this experience

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of being, uh, married to a man.

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Um, and we were going through something
as a family that was really traumatic.

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Like my son had gotten
diagnosed with cancer.

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Um, and so life had gotten really,
really, really, really serious.

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And we entered into swinging
just to lighten up life.

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Um, yeah.

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And as an opportunity for
me to explore my sexuality.

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Um, my ex-husband and I, and so our
movements through non-monogamy started

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with sort of recreational sex, looking
for the elusive threesome, you know?

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Yeah.

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That kind of thing.

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Um, and, uh, we did the swing of
version of non-monogamy for a while

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and then, um, went to a party and
met someone who would, uh, become our

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like actual, like romantic partner
for off and on for about two years.

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Um, and so that's when we shifted to a new
model of non-monogamy because at the time

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we were mostly sexually non-monogamous,
but we weren't it wasn't within our

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agreements to develop like relational
emotional bonds, um, with other people.

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And so, um, I, when my.

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Ex-husband initially
wanted to do polyamory.

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I was a little resistant because I was
like, I don't wanna share you in that way.

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At least that was my
philosophy at the time.

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Yeah.

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So sex to me, I very much understand
the drive to wanna have as much sex

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with as many people as you possibly can.

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Like that is, makes total
sense to me, but I get it.

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I'm like, yeah, totally understand.

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And so that one wasn't hard.

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It's stocking up food for the winter.

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Mm-hmm.

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Right.

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Yeah, exactly.

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Like, so I always tell people
I'm a certified bluesy.

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And so like, it totally made sense to me.

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But the wanting to connect emotionally
with multiple people, like that one

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was a little bit of a challenge.

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And, uh, but for my ex-husband he
was a lot more, he needed a lot

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more of an emotional attachment
to be sexual with a person.

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Whereas I didn't, so swinging
worked very well for me.

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It was really hard for him.

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He wanted to explore different
versions of non-monogamy.

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So he suggested polyamory
the first time we tried it.

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I was very hesitant.

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Um, and I was very volatile.

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I was not in possession of my emotional
faculties at the time, so we tabled it.

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So, and then we came back to it maybe
about six months later because I

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wanted the opportunity to actually
develop, actually develop like

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romantic bonds with, uh, afab people.

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Mm-hmm.

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Um, or people assigned female at birth.

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Like I could only sleep with them in the
current model that we were practicing.

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And I wanted to act chance to actually
have a romantic relationship with them.

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So we re um, like we re instituted,
that we would be trying, um,

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non-monogamy like polyamory and
those kinds of forms of non-monogamy.

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But, um, and we initially
were supposed to find.

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Our own person because I was
like, there is no way that we

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have the same taste in women.

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Like, absolutely not.

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You know, so

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very

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different

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taste.

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And so I was like, you
gonna find me somebody?

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I'm gonna go find me somebody
and never the twain shall meet.

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And then we like randomly go to
a party and we meet this person

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that we both fall for, uh, we
were with uh, her for two years.

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And that was our entrance into polyamory.

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And then once that relationship ended,
because it was highly volatile, um, with

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all of our, uh, first experience with
non-monogamy of that caliber, um, and, uh,

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we just did not know what we were doing.

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And so, uh, that relationship broke up.

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But after it broke up,
we just remained open.

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And, uh, so throughout the course of our.

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The non-monogamous period of our marriage.

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We had multiple types of partnerships,
long distance relationships,

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I, was in another triad.

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And um, and so yeah, and so
that was kind of like my journey

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to becoming non-monogamous.

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And then how I became a content creator
was I joined a bunch of online groups

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to like find community and yeah.

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I would post in these groups about
some of the challenges that I was

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facing emotionally, and so many people
were so like, resistant to that.

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Oh, was my goodness.

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Yes.

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Yeah.

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It really was.

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Yes.

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So resistant to it.

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And that was really hard for me 'cause
I was like, y'all, I'm struggling.

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And like people are like posting
like, oh my God, my partner's

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away for two weeks with their
other partner on a dream vacation.

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I'm just so happy for them.

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And I'm like, that is
not my experience at all.

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Like, I am Yes.

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Getting over here guys.

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Like what am I doing wrong?

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Because I just don't understand
why I don't feel this way

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these people are talking about.

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And so initially like I would
make these posts in these groups

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and people would kind of, you
know, bulk at it a little bit.

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And I was literally just looking for help.

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Like, I was just like, I am doing real.

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I know that I really wanna
live this way and I'm having

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such a hard time doing this.

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Can someone like give me some help?

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But I would also talk about like
my process through kind of like.

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Basically unpacking, monogamy,
unpacking these like sort of

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standard relationship norms.

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And I found this stuff so fascinating
that I would discover within myself

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that I would like make these posts
where I'd just talk about it, you know,

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because I'm like, oh my God, guess
what I learned about myself today?

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And it started to resonate with people.

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And because like I said, you know, nobody
wanted to post that they were struggling.

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People would like jump in my inbox and
be like, I'm so glad you posted that.

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Oh my god.

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I felt the same way and I just
didn't wanna say anything.

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And I was just like, okay,
so y'all are out here.

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You know, it's not just me.

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Yeah.

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So, um, and so that kind of started my
content creation journey and in 2020.

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I was laid off work and I, we
all were stuck in the house.

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And so I challenged myself to see
if I could make a daily polyamory

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reminder for 365 days and then
compile them into like a, little

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book of, um, like daily reminders and
reflections on living non monogamously.

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And so that's how that journey started.

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And because everybody was stuck in
the fucking house, like yeah, the

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internet exploded and, um, and so, yeah.

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And so people started kind of following
and resonating with what I said.

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And, um, I wrote the book.

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It was published in 2023, and so now I get
the privilege and the honor of being able

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to be for other people what I needed when
I was transitioning and, um, uh, entering

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into and shifting and adapting to, um,
uh, non-monogamous way of relating.

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So yeah, that's how love, I love that.

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I mean that, so you hit a
lot of like little Oh, nail.

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Oh, you,

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you, you've knocked, you knocked
a whole lot of different areas.

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I'm like, okay.

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Check, check, check.

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I totally understand.

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So I, um, just really briefly, 'cause
this is not about us, but we, we, and

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we were swingers in the beginning.

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And, um, first we first
started our relationship.

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We've been together for 14 years.

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We've been together 15, 15 years.

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We were in the lifestyle for 14.

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There you go.

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I'll remember the numbers.

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It's okay.

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And,

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um, we, we, we did the swinging thing.

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It was fun.

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We did it.

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I mainly wanted to, I
knew that I was bisexual.

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I just wasn't out.

239
00:11:00,904 --> 00:11:01,564
Mm-hmm.

240
00:11:01,804 --> 00:11:06,634
And when I told him, and he responded
in a way that my other partners,

241
00:11:06,634 --> 00:11:09,364
my previous partners did not, I was
like, cool, okay, let's try this.

242
00:11:09,814 --> 00:11:10,654
So we.

243
00:11:11,059 --> 00:11:11,719
Just briefly.

244
00:11:11,769 --> 00:11:14,739
We did swinging, we stopped,
we did poly, we moved into

245
00:11:14,739 --> 00:11:15,759
the poly world.

246
00:11:15,764 --> 00:11:17,339
And we did that for five years.

247
00:11:17,339 --> 00:11:21,539
And I'm gonna tell you what I tell
everybody on my show and what we talk

248
00:11:21,539 --> 00:11:25,049
about a lot, it was the worst experience.

249
00:11:25,079 --> 00:11:25,169
Mm-hmm.

250
00:11:25,289 --> 00:11:26,789
For me,

251
00:11:27,029 --> 00:11:27,539
I enjoyed it.

252
00:11:27,749 --> 00:11:27,899
Yeah.

253
00:11:27,899 --> 00:11:29,219
Um, because

254
00:11:29,219 --> 00:11:31,649
he needed, like what you
said, your partner, he needed

255
00:11:31,649 --> 00:11:33,299
that emotional connection.

256
00:11:33,329 --> 00:11:33,389
Yeah.

257
00:11:33,599 --> 00:11:35,069
That I did not understand that.

258
00:11:35,069 --> 00:11:36,779
I was like, I we're not doing that.

259
00:11:36,779 --> 00:11:38,489
We're this, you are my husband.

260
00:11:38,609 --> 00:11:42,179
You can go and have sex with
whomever you want, but emotional

261
00:11:42,179 --> 00:11:43,589
relationship, we're not doing that.

262
00:11:43,809 --> 00:11:44,529
That's not gonna happen.

263
00:11:44,529 --> 00:11:44,589
Yeah.

264
00:11:44,644 --> 00:11:44,934
Yeah.

265
00:11:45,069 --> 00:11:48,489
So I did it and I was going
through menopause at the time.

266
00:11:48,729 --> 00:11:54,129
I was living 300, three hours
away from my family and my kids.

267
00:11:54,249 --> 00:11:54,369
Mm-hmm.

268
00:11:55,129 --> 00:11:56,564
It was a very stressful time for me.

269
00:11:56,564 --> 00:11:56,844
That was a weird time.

270
00:11:56,844 --> 00:11:56,854
Yeah.

271
00:11:56,854 --> 00:11:58,129
It was a very weird time.

272
00:11:58,129 --> 00:12:02,269
Then the pandemic happened and so
we just finally, I, in a heat of

273
00:12:02,269 --> 00:12:04,324
an argument not related to poll.

274
00:12:05,254 --> 00:12:07,114
I said, we're not doing this anymore.

275
00:12:07,119 --> 00:12:08,179
Like what?

276
00:12:08,179 --> 00:12:08,259
Yeah.

277
00:12:08,259 --> 00:12:11,384
You know, we've, we've always had the, you
know, we don't have a whole lot of rules.

278
00:12:11,414 --> 00:12:11,474
Yeah.

279
00:12:11,474 --> 00:12:14,114
But there's one big rule that
we've always had, and it applied

280
00:12:14,114 --> 00:12:16,304
to every aspect of non-monogamy.

281
00:12:16,304 --> 00:12:16,394
Yes.

282
00:12:16,394 --> 00:12:20,984
Which is, if one of us says, I
don't like this, I don't want to do

283
00:12:20,984 --> 00:12:23,114
this anymore, no questions asked.

284
00:12:23,114 --> 00:12:23,174
Yeah.

285
00:12:23,234 --> 00:12:24,234
We pull out, yeah.

286
00:12:24,239 --> 00:12:24,439
And so

287
00:12:24,939 --> 00:12:27,904
I think he knew that I was struggling
with something and, and I could see it.

288
00:12:27,939 --> 00:12:30,609
I knew I was struggling with something
and I didn't know what it was.

289
00:12:30,609 --> 00:12:34,889
But as we started like kind of learning,
I learned more about myself and

290
00:12:34,889 --> 00:12:36,629
understood like how to communicate.

291
00:12:36,629 --> 00:12:41,279
I was like, yeah, this is not, I just
don't like the emotional connection.

292
00:12:41,279 --> 00:12:43,619
And, and I know a lot of people are
like, well, when you have friends,

293
00:12:43,619 --> 00:12:45,089
it's, it's an emotional connection.

294
00:12:45,239 --> 00:12:46,739
It's a very different connection.

295
00:12:47,129 --> 00:12:47,609
I don't know.

296
00:12:47,669 --> 00:12:48,299
It's a barrier.

297
00:12:48,599 --> 00:12:50,309
That's where we always, uh, differs.

298
00:12:50,369 --> 00:12:51,209
That's where we differ.

299
00:12:51,209 --> 00:12:53,699
Like, I understand the.

300
00:12:54,254 --> 00:12:57,734
When you're in a relationship, especially
poly, you're in a relationship.

301
00:12:57,764 --> 00:12:58,214
It is.

302
00:12:58,514 --> 00:13:00,704
You are giving and taking,
like that's just the way it is.

303
00:13:00,974 --> 00:13:05,084
When you're with friends and you have
a friends with benefits, it's just sex.

304
00:13:05,234 --> 00:13:05,444
Yeah.

305
00:13:05,444 --> 00:13:08,894
You're gonna be a friend, but you
don't have to be there all the time for

306
00:13:08,894 --> 00:13:11,144
every emotional little thing, you know?

307
00:13:11,144 --> 00:13:13,224
And the relationship doesn't
have to it's a friendship.

308
00:13:13,224 --> 00:13:14,154
It's not gonna grow anymore.

309
00:13:14,154 --> 00:13:16,164
Like that's, you're gonna be best friends.

310
00:13:16,164 --> 00:13:17,254
It's all but yeah.

311
00:13:17,254 --> 00:13:19,019
So you, and, and so
you hit a lot of nails.

312
00:13:19,124 --> 00:13:22,724
This is where we start talking about
semantics though, because for me

313
00:13:22,724 --> 00:13:25,124
it's why do we have to label things?

314
00:13:25,124 --> 00:13:26,774
I'm not a, I'm not a label person.

315
00:13:26,774 --> 00:13:26,834
Yeah.

316
00:13:27,134 --> 00:13:31,754
Now I, I think that labels play a good
part in the beginning for, especially

317
00:13:31,754 --> 00:13:35,754
for new people who are figuring out
the ropes and learning about dynamics

318
00:13:35,754 --> 00:13:40,494
and this and that and what people are
into labels will help guide people

319
00:13:40,494 --> 00:13:46,484
into figuring out, who to aim into, and
go, okay, well we, we may be, are into

320
00:13:46,484 --> 00:13:49,064
something similar, but after a while.

321
00:13:49,499 --> 00:13:51,989
You label up or you level up, excuse me.

322
00:13:52,379 --> 00:13:54,929
And those labels kind of go away.

323
00:13:55,289 --> 00:13:55,469
Yeah.

324
00:13:55,469 --> 00:13:56,669
And then it becomes, yeah.

325
00:13:56,699 --> 00:14:01,589
Less about what you used to classify
yourselves and it's more fluid.

326
00:14:01,979 --> 00:14:04,499
It's more like, why do
we have to define this?

327
00:14:04,499 --> 00:14:10,409
Why can't we why're friends and we
have sex occasionally, and guess what?

328
00:14:10,409 --> 00:14:13,349
I love my friends and I have
feelings for them and this and that.

329
00:14:13,349 --> 00:14:17,519
And so while we don't have to sit
here and go, you are my partner now

330
00:14:17,999 --> 00:14:19,589
because I have feelings for you.

331
00:14:20,009 --> 00:14:21,089
Why can't we just, yeah.

332
00:14:21,539 --> 00:14:22,739
Why can't we just exist?

333
00:14:22,919 --> 00:14:23,009
Yeah.

334
00:14:23,009 --> 00:14:23,609
You know what I'm saying?

335
00:14:23,799 --> 00:14:27,449
And that's where we've always when
she said she didn't wanna be poly

336
00:14:27,449 --> 00:14:32,509
anymore and I was really big into,
I, I need an emotional connection.

337
00:14:32,509 --> 00:14:32,599
Mm-hmm.

338
00:14:33,109 --> 00:14:38,689
I said, okay, well how about
we compromise and I, we'll just

339
00:14:38,689 --> 00:14:40,459
do the friends with benefits.

340
00:14:40,549 --> 00:14:40,699
Yeah.

341
00:14:40,699 --> 00:14:41,269
Dynamic.

342
00:14:41,269 --> 00:14:42,409
Let me have that.

343
00:14:42,454 --> 00:14:42,744
Yeah.

344
00:14:42,979 --> 00:14:44,359
And this way I can.

345
00:14:44,794 --> 00:14:48,694
Connect with my friends
and have sex occasionally.

346
00:14:48,699 --> 00:14:48,889
Yeah.

347
00:14:49,309 --> 00:14:51,204
And, you know, and, and
yeah, I'm, I'm good.

348
00:14:51,204 --> 00:14:54,054
And you don't have the,
the romantic aspect of

349
00:14:54,294 --> 00:14:54,354
it.

350
00:14:54,564 --> 00:14:54,894
Yeah.

351
00:14:54,894 --> 00:14:54,904
Yeah.

352
00:14:55,164 --> 00:14:58,764
So yeah, we were, we were very
similar in how, you know, how

353
00:14:58,764 --> 00:15:00,084
you kind of did your journey.

354
00:15:00,084 --> 00:15:01,734
We, it was the same thing for us.

355
00:15:01,764 --> 00:15:01,854
Mm-hmm.

356
00:15:02,364 --> 00:15:06,774
And when we started the podcast is when
we realized that there was a lot of

357
00:15:06,774 --> 00:15:09,284
other people out there who don't know.

358
00:15:09,784 --> 00:15:10,324
Yes.

359
00:15:10,384 --> 00:15:11,284
They don't know.

360
00:15:11,284 --> 00:15:14,074
And they're just kind of going
along with where the crowds are

361
00:15:14,074 --> 00:15:15,424
going and what people are saying.

362
00:15:15,424 --> 00:15:18,824
And deep down inside, they
have no idea what to do.

363
00:15:19,114 --> 00:15:19,474
Yeah.

364
00:15:19,594 --> 00:15:26,104
And so we like to have guests like
yourself on who can echo, uh, you

365
00:15:26,104 --> 00:15:27,634
know, what other people have thought.

366
00:15:27,664 --> 00:15:28,324
Mm-hmm.

367
00:15:28,564 --> 00:15:28,574
Mm-hmm.

368
00:15:28,574 --> 00:15:28,654
And

369
00:15:28,654 --> 00:15:31,834
it, it helps them really,
really get, get going with that.

370
00:15:32,334 --> 00:15:32,604
Yeah.

371
00:15:32,604 --> 00:15:33,189
That was, was there ever a point.

372
00:15:33,689 --> 00:15:38,019
What, propelled me to want to get
into content creation because I,

373
00:15:38,019 --> 00:15:43,449
it was a voice that I needed when
I was going through my transition.

374
00:15:43,449 --> 00:15:46,719
And like I said, I'm like, I
really want to live this way.

375
00:15:46,929 --> 00:15:51,139
Like, I was like, and not like my
ex-husband wasn't forcing me to do it.

376
00:15:51,139 --> 00:15:55,879
I think there's this big myth, you
know, um, that um, like women femmes

377
00:15:55,879 --> 00:16:00,709
in, uh, relationships with men, um,
that are practicing non-monogamy,

378
00:16:00,769 --> 00:16:03,889
that the men are the ones that
are like pushing them to do this.

379
00:16:03,889 --> 00:16:05,599
And that could not be
further from the truth.

380
00:16:05,599 --> 00:16:06,079
You know,

381
00:16:06,319 --> 00:16:06,499
for

382
00:16:06,999 --> 00:16:11,129
my situation, it was very much
I was the catalyst for us,

383
00:16:11,229 --> 00:16:12,579
uh, getting to this place.

384
00:16:13,119 --> 00:16:15,039
So I was like, I want to live this way.

385
00:16:15,219 --> 00:16:16,329
Why is it so hard?

386
00:16:16,329 --> 00:16:18,489
Like, I just don't understand.

387
00:16:19,269 --> 00:16:24,459
Um, and um, and I needed a
voice that would, that said,

388
00:16:25,389 --> 00:16:28,029
because it's hard and it is.

389
00:16:28,899 --> 00:16:30,009
That's okay.

390
00:16:30,339 --> 00:16:36,459
Um, I always say that shifting from
monogamy to non-monogamy is like, like

391
00:16:36,459 --> 00:16:38,949
changing your computer's operating system.

392
00:16:38,949 --> 00:16:41,469
It's like going from a
PC to a Mac, you know?

393
00:16:41,469 --> 00:16:46,659
So some of the functions are gonna
work the same on IT platform, but a

394
00:16:46,659 --> 00:16:49,629
lot of them are not, you know, and
so you have to learn this entire

395
00:16:49,629 --> 00:16:52,029
new relationship operating system.

396
00:16:52,779 --> 00:16:53,469
And, um.

397
00:16:53,969 --> 00:16:54,674
We That's really smart.

398
00:16:54,994 --> 00:16:55,234
I like that.

399
00:16:55,234 --> 00:16:56,639
Think that's just gonna be really easy.

400
00:16:56,639 --> 00:16:59,339
Like, oh yeah, I'm just gonna make a
decision to be polyamorous and, but

401
00:16:59,339 --> 00:17:01,239
a bing, but boom, you know, idea.

402
00:17:01,749 --> 00:17:02,039
Good.

403
00:17:02,899 --> 00:17:08,884
And, um, I think there are some people for
whom that does occur because non-monogamy

404
00:17:08,884 --> 00:17:10,879
very much feels like a homecoming to them.

405
00:17:10,879 --> 00:17:12,184
I think for those people.

406
00:17:12,184 --> 00:17:15,964
Um, like usually those people,
monogamy just never made sense to them.

407
00:17:16,024 --> 00:17:20,494
And that was always the one that felt
very foreign and odd and weird, you know?

408
00:17:21,244 --> 00:17:24,694
Um, and they just couldn't understand
why, you know, that it didn't make sense.

409
00:17:24,699 --> 00:17:27,504
And I think, but for most of us, um.

410
00:17:28,434 --> 00:17:30,834
Monogamy was pretty
comfortable in a lot of ways.

411
00:17:30,834 --> 00:17:34,524
And so even when, you know, we
decided like, oh, I don't actually

412
00:17:34,524 --> 00:17:35,664
wanna live this way anymore.

413
00:17:35,724 --> 00:17:39,354
You know, I want to shift to, you know,
polyamory, non-monogamy, et cetera.

414
00:17:40,074 --> 00:17:43,254
Um, you have to give up this, you
know, it's almost like this old

415
00:17:43,254 --> 00:17:46,139
sort of comfortable relationship
blanket, that's what I was gonna

416
00:17:46,139 --> 00:17:49,169
say, because monogamy is
like you, it's the devil, you

417
00:17:49,169 --> 00:17:49,349
know,

418
00:17:49,499 --> 00:17:51,179
and Yeah, it's the traditional, right?

419
00:17:51,179 --> 00:17:51,239
Yeah.

420
00:17:51,239 --> 00:17:55,649
It's the traditional of the man marries
the woman, or, you know, whatever.

421
00:17:55,649 --> 00:18:00,089
And you have your children and you just
continue life in that traditional way.

422
00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:04,769
And to break that mold is
where it's, its extremely hard.

423
00:18:04,769 --> 00:18:08,309
And it's like, Ooh, are
you doing the right thing?

424
00:18:08,459 --> 00:18:08,759
You know?

425
00:18:08,774 --> 00:18:12,689
It, it, it comes off non-monogamy
comes off very chaotic at times.

426
00:18:12,719 --> 00:18:12,989
Yes.

427
00:18:12,989 --> 00:18:13,049
Yeah.

428
00:18:13,479 --> 00:18:13,679
But.

429
00:18:14,384 --> 00:18:17,714
Really, when you look at it, like if
you've been doing it a while, when

430
00:18:17,714 --> 00:18:23,014
you look at monogamy, monogamy is
pretty chaotic with this just sheer

431
00:18:23,014 --> 00:18:26,584
blanket over it that goes, no, this
is, this is what everybody does.

432
00:18:26,584 --> 00:18:27,274
This is safe.

433
00:18:27,394 --> 00:18:29,644
This is what you see
Hallmark movies about.

434
00:18:29,644 --> 00:18:29,854
You know?

435
00:18:30,594 --> 00:18:34,284
But realistically being
monogamous was just as chaotic.

436
00:18:34,404 --> 00:18:34,794
It was, yeah.

437
00:18:34,794 --> 00:18:35,874
If not more sometimes.

438
00:18:36,054 --> 00:18:36,114
Yeah.

439
00:18:36,594 --> 00:18:40,864
Now I'm curious about something Evita
when it came to your experiences.

440
00:18:40,864 --> 00:18:46,514
It, something that you hit on at
the beginning was when you went from

441
00:18:46,514 --> 00:18:51,924
swinging to polyamory, you know, you
were not very much in the mindset

442
00:18:51,924 --> 00:18:54,714
of, of, okay, let's, let's do this.

443
00:18:54,714 --> 00:18:56,214
You know, I'm, I'm, I'm into this.

444
00:18:56,214 --> 00:18:58,344
You know, it was kind of
a, a different aspect.

445
00:18:58,344 --> 00:19:02,384
It, it, it reminds me of my wife at times
where she's like, I just have no interest.

446
00:19:02,664 --> 00:19:07,044
This is not something I'm curious
on your end because you went

447
00:19:07,044 --> 00:19:08,394
from that kind of thinking to.

448
00:19:08,894 --> 00:19:10,574
Being with somebody for two years.

449
00:19:10,604 --> 00:19:10,964
Mm-hmm.

450
00:19:11,624 --> 00:19:13,634
Was there like a light
switch that flipped?

451
00:19:13,634 --> 00:19:15,224
Was it a gradual thing?

452
00:19:15,524 --> 00:19:18,314
Did all of a sudden you just meet this
person and go, okay, you know what?

453
00:19:18,314 --> 00:19:19,214
I think I can do this.

454
00:19:19,714 --> 00:19:24,664
Well, it wasn't gradual because
in the classic gestalts of,

455
00:19:25,234 --> 00:19:26,929
you know, triads, like mm-hmm.

456
00:19:27,054 --> 00:19:30,394
It feels so serendipitous that
you like punch it, you know?

457
00:19:30,999 --> 00:19:31,659
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

458
00:19:31,804 --> 00:19:34,894
So like, you know, when I talk to people
about it, I'm like, man, if a friend

459
00:19:34,894 --> 00:19:38,884
of mine told me that they had started
seeing somebody in two months into

460
00:19:38,884 --> 00:19:41,764
the relationship, they were talking
about moving in together and having

461
00:19:41,764 --> 00:19:43,204
children, like, I'd be like, Hmm.

462
00:19:43,704 --> 00:19:45,624
Um, are you sure?

463
00:19:45,624 --> 00:19:48,714
You know, but that's
exactly what we were doing.

464
00:19:48,744 --> 00:19:52,704
Um, because it felt so serendipitous
to like, find this person who we

465
00:19:52,704 --> 00:19:54,714
both liked, who liked both of us.

466
00:19:54,714 --> 00:19:57,954
You know, it was like this
like magical thing, but it is.

467
00:19:58,074 --> 00:20:04,549
Um, it, uh, it was gradual in the sense
that you know, we just kind of started

468
00:20:04,549 --> 00:20:07,819
hanging out and it was just like, oh,
feelings have developed for this person

469
00:20:07,819 --> 00:20:13,049
and I still have my feelings for my
husband and he has feelings for this

470
00:20:13,049 --> 00:20:16,379
person and he still has feelings for me,
and we all have feelings for each other.

471
00:20:16,949 --> 00:20:18,599
Um, and this feels really good.

472
00:20:18,599 --> 00:20:20,279
And so we're just gonna keep following,

473
00:20:20,379 --> 00:20:20,859
yeah.

474
00:20:20,859 --> 00:20:20,889
Following the feel.

475
00:20:20,889 --> 00:20:22,119
And a lot of communication.

476
00:20:22,179 --> 00:20:22,389
Yeah.

477
00:20:22,389 --> 00:20:23,379
A lot of communication.

478
00:20:23,379 --> 00:20:26,584
And then if you feel it,
it's like, boom, it happened.

479
00:20:27,084 --> 00:20:27,444
It's nice.

480
00:20:27,744 --> 00:20:28,314
Right, right, right.

481
00:20:28,314 --> 00:20:28,584
Yeah.

482
00:20:28,584 --> 00:20:30,654
So we were just kind of
following the feel good.

483
00:20:30,714 --> 00:20:35,454
Um, and, um, and you know, I
think we all were getting, you

484
00:20:35,454 --> 00:20:38,964
know, different things that really
like mattered to us about mm-hmm.

485
00:20:39,684 --> 00:20:44,454
You know, what we wanted in relationships,
um, uh, in that relationship.

486
00:20:44,454 --> 00:20:46,884
And then, like I said, once
we, you know, that relationship

487
00:20:46,884 --> 00:20:48,264
ended, it was just like, oh, okay.

488
00:20:48,624 --> 00:20:50,964
I always liken like, um.

489
00:20:51,744 --> 00:20:56,914
For me becoming non-monogamous and then
like, maybe like going back to monogamy.

490
00:20:56,944 --> 00:20:59,584
So, you know, it was kind of
a point of no return for me.

491
00:20:59,584 --> 00:21:00,424
Mm-hmm.

492
00:21:00,449 --> 00:21:06,439
But, I was liken it to like living in like
a five bedroom house and then packing up

493
00:21:06,439 --> 00:21:09,629
all the furniture and then like packing
it into a two bedroom household, yeah.

494
00:21:09,689 --> 00:21:13,799
So like, it's just such a more
expanded way of living for me.

495
00:21:13,889 --> 00:21:14,249
Okay.

496
00:21:14,879 --> 00:21:15,149
Right.

497
00:21:15,149 --> 00:21:15,599
You know, so I'm

498
00:21:15,599 --> 00:21:20,389
not making it, more, um, like
more, quality than monogamy is.

499
00:21:20,389 --> 00:21:22,489
Monogamy is very valid,
you know, before me.

500
00:21:22,489 --> 00:21:25,189
And there is freedom and
spaciousness for people in monogamy.

501
00:21:25,729 --> 00:21:29,509
Uh, but for me non-monogamy
feels so much more expansive.

502
00:21:29,509 --> 00:21:32,209
So like now to like, go back to
monogamy, like I feel like I've

503
00:21:32,209 --> 00:21:34,489
amassed so much, you know, stuff.

504
00:21:35,239 --> 00:21:38,989
Um, and this like five bedroom house,
you know, that is not a monogamy for

505
00:21:38,989 --> 00:21:41,959
me, that, you know, now going back to
two bedroom house with all my furniture,

506
00:21:41,959 --> 00:21:43,039
like it would just feel crowded,

507
00:21:43,129 --> 00:21:43,519
yeah.

508
00:21:43,994 --> 00:21:44,359
Um, so

509
00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:49,099
that's how it, you know, I conceptualized
like going back to monogamy, uh, for me.

510
00:21:49,099 --> 00:21:50,959
And so, you know, once we.

511
00:21:51,784 --> 00:21:52,564
Kind of opened up.

512
00:21:52,564 --> 00:21:53,734
We opened up and that was kind of it.

513
00:21:53,734 --> 00:21:57,664
So even though neither of us
are, uh, with each other, we

514
00:21:57,664 --> 00:21:59,494
both still practice non-monogamy.

515
00:21:59,524 --> 00:22:01,774
And that was one of our saving graces.

516
00:22:02,404 --> 00:22:06,514
'cause a lot of couples, one person is
doing it for the other person, you know?

517
00:22:06,514 --> 00:22:06,524
Mm-hmm.

518
00:22:06,634 --> 00:22:08,584
But they're not really
doing it for themselves.

519
00:22:08,584 --> 00:22:11,254
Whereas for us, like both of us,
were like, no, we're pretty sure

520
00:22:11,254 --> 00:22:12,124
that we wanna live this way.

521
00:22:12,124 --> 00:22:14,884
We don't wanna live this
way with you anymore.

522
00:22:14,974 --> 00:22:16,534
Like, that should be sailed.

523
00:22:17,314 --> 00:22:19,414
Um, but we do still wanna live this way.

524
00:22:19,414 --> 00:22:21,484
And so we both continued to practice it.

525
00:22:21,484 --> 00:22:25,414
So yeah, I wouldn't say that
it was like a switch flip.

526
00:22:25,714 --> 00:22:29,724
Um, it was gradual in a sense that
you know, it was like, oh, we did this

527
00:22:29,724 --> 00:22:31,824
thing and then we did that thing, and
then we did this thing, and then we

528
00:22:31,824 --> 00:22:36,054
did that thing, and then we looked up
and like, here we were, um, doing it.

529
00:22:36,054 --> 00:22:39,594
But it did feel a little rapid,
you know, because like I said, the

530
00:22:39,594 --> 00:22:41,484
serendipitous of the relationship.

531
00:22:42,144 --> 00:22:44,304
Now, did you deal with jealousies?

532
00:22:44,694 --> 00:22:47,954
You know, I'm, I'm really
big into, uh, you know, the.

533
00:22:48,659 --> 00:22:52,139
There's a lot of negativity that comes
with jealousy, with the word jealousy.

534
00:22:52,499 --> 00:22:55,379
And there's a lot, it's villainized
oftentimes, and I've talked about

535
00:22:55,379 --> 00:22:59,409
this in past episodes where people
in the non-monogamy spaces are

536
00:22:59,409 --> 00:23:00,729
like, oh my God, you're jealous.

537
00:23:00,729 --> 00:23:01,869
You're doing it wrong.

538
00:23:01,959 --> 00:23:02,049
Yeah.

539
00:23:02,049 --> 00:23:02,709
You know what I mean?

540
00:23:03,009 --> 00:23:05,259
And I just don't feel like
jealousy is a bad thing.

541
00:23:05,259 --> 00:23:08,349
I feel like not knowing how to
cope with it is a bad thing.

542
00:23:08,349 --> 00:23:10,029
I'm a very jealous person.

543
00:23:10,509 --> 00:23:11,554
I'm a, I'm a very, how so am I?

544
00:23:12,009 --> 00:23:12,159
Yeah.

545
00:23:12,159 --> 00:23:13,329
I'm a very jealous person.

546
00:23:13,329 --> 00:23:16,239
I'm a very possessive
person and under, and she

547
00:23:16,239 --> 00:23:18,064
gets looks whenever she tells people that.

548
00:23:18,304 --> 00:23:18,344
Yeah.

549
00:23:18,344 --> 00:23:19,869
And I'm like, it is what it is.

550
00:23:19,869 --> 00:23:20,409
It's a feeling.

551
00:23:20,409 --> 00:23:21,219
I can't help it.

552
00:23:21,219 --> 00:23:27,159
And, and it took many years of us
talking to each other to understand that

553
00:23:27,159 --> 00:23:28,839
I'm always gonna have these feelings.

554
00:23:28,839 --> 00:23:30,999
And yes, he's going to validate them.

555
00:23:30,999 --> 00:23:33,939
And yes, he reassures me,
but they are what they are.

556
00:23:33,939 --> 00:23:36,249
And they can be the most
silliest, stupidest little things.

557
00:23:36,579 --> 00:23:39,159
Like, I can stop and be
like, that was just so silly.

558
00:23:39,579 --> 00:23:42,024
But how did you, like how did
you overcome those things?

559
00:23:42,024 --> 00:23:42,224
Yeah.

560
00:23:42,229 --> 00:23:42,459
Especially

561
00:23:42,459 --> 00:23:45,819
in that, in that situation,
brand new to dating.

562
00:23:46,794 --> 00:23:47,394
Yeah.

563
00:23:47,394 --> 00:23:47,484
You're

564
00:23:47,484 --> 00:23:48,039
like, I don't know.

565
00:23:48,539 --> 00:23:51,064
No, it was intense.

566
00:23:51,154 --> 00:23:52,204
Um, jealousy.

567
00:23:52,204 --> 00:23:53,554
Such a visceral emotion.

568
00:23:53,914 --> 00:23:54,994
It's so visceral.

569
00:23:54,994 --> 00:23:59,824
I, it, it, it would have the in effect
on me of almost feeling punch drunk.

570
00:24:00,784 --> 00:24:01,264
Yeah.

571
00:24:01,354 --> 00:24:08,234
So I would pitch and real, you know,
emotionally when I would be faced with

572
00:24:08,444 --> 00:24:14,444
some evidence of, you know, my, um,
ex-husband, feeling for another person.

573
00:24:14,444 --> 00:24:18,144
The things that, you know, I was
accustomed to him, only feeling solely

574
00:24:18,144 --> 00:24:19,674
for me and only seeing him feel.

575
00:24:20,434 --> 00:24:20,444
Mm-hmm.

576
00:24:20,444 --> 00:24:21,333
Totally for me.

577
00:24:21,393 --> 00:24:26,043
Um, and it was highly activating
for me, highly activating.

578
00:24:26,043 --> 00:24:32,043
So I did a lot of wild things,
um, in the throes of jealousy, uh,

579
00:24:32,043 --> 00:24:33,363
that I'm not proud of for sure.

580
00:24:33,363 --> 00:24:34,623
And I talk about that a lot.

581
00:24:35,493 --> 00:24:36,153
And.

582
00:24:37,023 --> 00:24:39,633
Number one, like I said, I really
wanted to live this way and I was

583
00:24:39,633 --> 00:24:41,703
just like, okay, we cannot do this.

584
00:24:41,703 --> 00:24:44,403
Like, I was like, like this
is, we wanna live this way.

585
00:24:44,403 --> 00:24:48,543
Like we gotta figure out how to nip
this shit in the butt, you know?

586
00:24:48,843 --> 00:24:48,933
Yeah.

587
00:24:49,143 --> 00:24:53,133
So like, um, this is really like, you
know, this is harsh in our Buzz Vita.

588
00:24:53,953 --> 00:24:55,513
So there was that aspect of it.

589
00:24:55,513 --> 00:24:59,983
And then some of the behaviors
that I chose in the throes

590
00:24:59,983 --> 00:25:01,333
of jealousy were not Okay.

591
00:25:01,483 --> 00:25:01,873
You know?

592
00:25:01,873 --> 00:25:03,643
And so it was like, okay, we
have to fix it for that way.

593
00:25:03,643 --> 00:25:06,153
Because one of the things I learned
I always say that the biggest benefit

594
00:25:06,153 --> 00:25:09,693
of non-monogamy is not the multiple
partners, but the self-discovery.

595
00:25:10,353 --> 00:25:10,473
Mm-hmm.

596
00:25:10,473 --> 00:25:10,833
Yes.

597
00:25:10,833 --> 00:25:14,043
I learned so many incredible
things about myself.

598
00:25:14,073 --> 00:25:16,953
Um, and one of the things that
I learned was that my default

599
00:25:16,953 --> 00:25:18,543
response to pain was anger.

600
00:25:19,503 --> 00:25:24,303
So when I would find myself feeling,
really uncomfortable, um, about something

601
00:25:24,303 --> 00:25:29,113
in that monogamy or feeling, particularly
in pain, um, I would have these really

602
00:25:29,113 --> 00:25:31,303
angry reactions that were super hostile.

603
00:25:31,633 --> 00:25:32,713
Not good at all.

604
00:25:33,518 --> 00:25:38,098
And so, uh, some of my motivation
was needing to fix that because I was

605
00:25:38,098 --> 00:25:41,488
like, I know that I wanna live this
way and I can't live this way f and

606
00:25:41,488 --> 00:25:46,258
function, you know, if this is the
extent to which, you know, I'm becoming

607
00:25:46,258 --> 00:25:48,328
emotionally impacted by this experience.

608
00:25:49,238 --> 00:25:54,938
And then also a lot of these behaviors
that I exhibit in this state also not.

609
00:25:54,938 --> 00:25:55,328
Okay.

610
00:25:55,868 --> 00:26:03,728
Um, I began to learn to, I think probably
my first step in my jealousy process

611
00:26:03,728 --> 00:26:04,928
because everybody's step is different.

612
00:26:04,928 --> 00:26:09,588
I think everybody's movement through
it is different or we feel different

613
00:26:09,588 --> 00:26:15,303
things about the experience that seem
maybe like accessible for us to alter.

614
00:26:16,148 --> 00:26:16,368
So,

615
00:26:16,533 --> 00:26:19,923
'
cause it is this really visceral emotion
and people treat jealousy like, oh my God.

616
00:26:19,923 --> 00:26:21,513
Like, it's like, if I
feel this, I'm gonna die.

617
00:26:21,563 --> 00:26:21,948
You know?

618
00:26:22,448 --> 00:26:22,738
Yeah.

619
00:26:22,773 --> 00:26:24,183
I let myself feel this.

620
00:26:24,543 --> 00:26:28,533
If I admit that I feel this, if
I just sit with the feeling, I'm

621
00:26:28,533 --> 00:26:31,353
literally going to spontaneously
combust and so I can't do this.

622
00:26:31,353 --> 00:26:31,443
Yes.

623
00:26:32,083 --> 00:26:36,603
Um, and so, I think people's movement
through how to process it just varies

624
00:26:36,603 --> 00:26:40,393
on like what things seems attainable
to them first, you know, to mm-hmm.

625
00:26:40,393 --> 00:26:41,913
To maybe adjust or tweak.

626
00:26:42,413 --> 00:26:45,963
Um, and so for me the first thing was.

627
00:26:46,803 --> 00:26:48,153
Just embracing that.

628
00:26:48,153 --> 00:26:49,173
Like, okay.

629
00:26:49,173 --> 00:26:53,133
Like yeah, there are some like people
out there who just naturally feel

630
00:26:53,133 --> 00:26:56,973
compersion and fuck those people,
you know, that's my husband because

631
00:26:57,528 --> 00:26:57,818
Yeah.

632
00:26:58,148 --> 00:26:58,498
Right.

633
00:26:59,498 --> 00:27:01,058
Respectfully, respectfully.

634
00:27:01,798 --> 00:27:03,538
So you can look it up and see a

635
00:27:03,538 --> 00:27:05,633
picture of me waving
like, yeah, no, I get it.

636
00:27:05,833 --> 00:27:06,113
Right?

637
00:27:06,238 --> 00:27:09,628
Like, write a book and teach us your
ways because I don't get it, you know?

638
00:27:09,628 --> 00:27:10,708
So, yeah.

639
00:27:10,708 --> 00:27:14,488
You know, I, I had to
learn to just embrace that.

640
00:27:14,488 --> 00:27:18,358
Like, vida, this is your
emotional reaction to the stimuli.

641
00:27:18,858 --> 00:27:19,038
Yeah.

642
00:27:19,038 --> 00:27:19,158
Is

643
00:27:19,158 --> 00:27:19,788
you get jealous.

644
00:27:20,448 --> 00:27:23,748
Um, and that kind of is it, and ditch
the self self-judgment because like

645
00:27:23,748 --> 00:27:28,998
ditching the self-judgment allowed me
more capacity to be able to sit with

646
00:27:29,838 --> 00:27:31,758
the emotional, expansive jealousy.

647
00:27:31,808 --> 00:27:36,338
And it is a surprisingly
insightful teacher.

648
00:27:37,133 --> 00:27:37,673
It is.

649
00:27:37,778 --> 00:27:40,538
So I learned to kind of make
friends with my jealousy.

650
00:27:40,538 --> 00:27:43,208
Um, even if it's though, it's super
uncomfortable when it comes on.

651
00:27:43,208 --> 00:27:44,648
And I'm like, oh, you again?

652
00:27:45,148 --> 00:27:45,208
Yeah.

653
00:27:45,208 --> 00:27:49,888
But, um, but I've learned to, um,
there's a, a poem by a Rumi, I

654
00:27:49,888 --> 00:27:52,108
believe, and it's called a guest house.

655
00:27:52,138 --> 00:27:55,348
And he talks about, you know,
allowing your emotions to kind of

656
00:27:55,348 --> 00:27:56,968
come in, you know, and sit down.

657
00:27:57,718 --> 00:28:00,568
Um, and so now I'm like, okay,
when my jealousy comes in, I'm just

658
00:28:00,568 --> 00:28:02,668
like, okay, like, sit at the table.

659
00:28:02,758 --> 00:28:05,248
I poured a cup of tea, and I'm
like, what do you have to say?

660
00:28:05,748 --> 00:28:07,578
Okay, girl, what do you have to say?

661
00:28:08,298 --> 00:28:12,098
Um, but I had to learn how to ditch
the self self-judgment and then like

662
00:28:12,098 --> 00:28:18,628
learn how to decipher its messages
without getting so cut up in its

663
00:28:18,628 --> 00:28:20,728
story that I allow it to sort of like.

664
00:28:21,223 --> 00:28:24,613
Bonnie and Clyde me into like,
you know, driving the car off the

665
00:28:24,613 --> 00:28:26,573
cliff, which is what, what happened.

666
00:28:26,573 --> 00:28:29,243
Like, you know, we would get in
the passenger seat, or actually

667
00:28:29,243 --> 00:28:30,263
we would get in the driver's seat.

668
00:28:30,803 --> 00:28:31,043
Yeah.

669
00:28:31,073 --> 00:28:33,263
You know, and then it'd be like,
we're gonna drive this thing off

670
00:28:33,263 --> 00:28:34,913
the cliff, and I'd go along with it.

671
00:28:34,973 --> 00:28:38,153
Whereas like, I had to learn how to
stay in the driver's seat and like,

672
00:28:38,213 --> 00:28:42,153
I could let it get in the car, but I
couldn't let it drive so and so I kind

673
00:28:42,153 --> 00:28:43,843
of had to learn that skill as well.

674
00:28:43,873 --> 00:28:51,113
And in learning those things it allowed
me to have a more right relationship

675
00:28:51,113 --> 00:28:58,443
with my jealousy so that I was optimizing
its existence as a, as a uh, like

676
00:28:58,443 --> 00:29:03,033
an emotional teacher, um, as opposed
to like this sort of monster that

677
00:29:03,153 --> 00:29:05,013
overtakes me and puts me in a trance.

678
00:29:05,013 --> 00:29:07,623
And now I'm doing all these
horrible things, you know,

679
00:29:07,623 --> 00:29:09,183
because I'm, possessed by it.

680
00:29:09,858 --> 00:29:12,278
Now it's like, oh, like
I said, it's a friend.

681
00:29:12,458 --> 00:29:13,178
It shows up.

682
00:29:13,178 --> 00:29:13,238
Yeah.

683
00:29:13,838 --> 00:29:15,548
And I'm like, I know you
have, you have a message.

684
00:29:15,608 --> 00:29:15,938
You know?

685
00:29:15,938 --> 00:29:19,808
And so, um, and it's like, it was
changing, you know, my relationship to it.

686
00:29:20,618 --> 00:29:25,048
Oh, I get, you know, I, every now and
then when that little guy creeps in kind

687
00:29:25,048 --> 00:29:30,708
of often I always go and I tell Adam,
I'm like, you know, I felt like this,

688
00:29:30,918 --> 00:29:34,968
but I didn't react and I said this to
myself and this is how it happened.

689
00:29:34,968 --> 00:29:37,788
He, and sometimes he is,
oh, that's really good.

690
00:29:37,788 --> 00:29:38,868
And then other times he's like.

691
00:29:39,813 --> 00:29:42,753
Well, why did you even, like,
what was that reaction for?

692
00:29:42,753 --> 00:29:44,508
Like why that's not why you even go there.

693
00:29:44,508 --> 00:29:47,343
Like that's not a win for him,
but it's a win for me, and I

694
00:29:47,343 --> 00:29:48,348
like to share that with him.

695
00:29:48,528 --> 00:29:52,388
And, that's where it's hard for us and,
and where we both have to kind of sit

696
00:29:52,388 --> 00:29:54,068
down and, and cope with her jealousies.

697
00:29:54,128 --> 00:29:54,308
Yeah.

698
00:29:54,308 --> 00:29:55,928
Because I'm not a very
jealous person at all.

699
00:29:55,988 --> 00:29:56,408
Yeah.

700
00:29:56,558 --> 00:30:01,058
Um, and so it's hard for me to understand
a lot of times when she comes out and

701
00:30:01,058 --> 00:30:05,828
she's all excited and she's like, Hey, so
that girl, uh, that came up and cuddled

702
00:30:05,828 --> 00:30:07,328
with you when you were on the couch.

703
00:30:07,358 --> 00:30:07,598
Yeah.

704
00:30:07,598 --> 00:30:11,678
Like, I really didn't like that,
but I really am excited at the fact

705
00:30:11,678 --> 00:30:13,238
that I didn't react in the moment.

706
00:30:13,738 --> 00:30:14,003
I didn't

707
00:30:14,003 --> 00:30:14,963
pull her hair off.

708
00:30:15,013 --> 00:30:18,583
And, and my situation is like, I'm
sitting back going, well that's

709
00:30:18,583 --> 00:30:20,203
good except for the fact that.

710
00:30:20,593 --> 00:30:22,808
Why would that be your
reaction to begin with?

711
00:30:22,963 --> 00:30:24,583
Like, we're all, we're friends.

712
00:30:24,583 --> 00:30:25,813
Like, there's no romantic.

713
00:30:25,813 --> 00:30:28,723
It's I, and so that's where
we have our conversations.

714
00:30:28,723 --> 00:30:31,003
Like, okay, I need to
understand your side of it

715
00:30:31,063 --> 00:30:32,923
and your Yeah, I was gonna say, exactly.

716
00:30:32,923 --> 00:30:36,703
Your partner has to understand
that's just one of your reactions.

717
00:30:36,703 --> 00:30:37,813
Like, that's just a, that's just, yeah.

718
00:30:37,813 --> 00:30:37,933
I

719
00:30:37,933 --> 00:30:39,193
tell people that a lot.

720
00:30:39,193 --> 00:30:39,493
Yeah.

721
00:30:39,493 --> 00:30:44,193
Like, I tell my partners and actually,
so it's funny because I think what,

722
00:30:44,223 --> 00:30:49,363
what happened to me when I would get
jealous is it's such a, a myopic emotion.

723
00:30:49,368 --> 00:30:49,498
Mm-hmm.

724
00:30:49,578 --> 00:30:49,778
You know?

725
00:30:49,778 --> 00:30:50,058
Mm-hmm.

726
00:30:50,143 --> 00:30:50,533
Mm-hmm.

727
00:30:50,803 --> 00:30:51,583
And so when I'm in

728
00:30:51,583 --> 00:30:57,493
the midst of it, like, it's really
hard for me to like focus, zoom out,

729
00:30:57,673 --> 00:30:59,333
and kind of incorporate anybody else.

730
00:30:59,333 --> 00:31:00,088
It just, it replays.

731
00:31:00,088 --> 00:31:00,298
Yeah.

732
00:31:00,298 --> 00:31:01,288
Replays in your head.

733
00:31:01,288 --> 00:31:04,088
It replaces, it replaces, it replaces
until you catch it talk, right?

734
00:31:04,688 --> 00:31:05,018
Yeah.

735
00:31:05,858 --> 00:31:06,158
Yeah.

736
00:31:06,158 --> 00:31:10,178
So it's really hard for me to, like,
it's really hard for me to grasp that

737
00:31:10,178 --> 00:31:14,438
my ex-husband or any of my partners
really are having their own experience

738
00:31:14,498 --> 00:31:16,088
on the other side of my jealousy.

739
00:31:16,418 --> 00:31:22,318
And so with my ex-husband, the experience
that he was having was maybe feeling

740
00:31:22,318 --> 00:31:26,648
some sadness or some disappointment
because, to him, the fact that I

741
00:31:26,648 --> 00:31:31,418
experienced jealousy meant that I didn't
want him to have good things, you know?

742
00:31:31,878 --> 00:31:32,158
Mm-hmm.

743
00:31:32,953 --> 00:31:37,513
Um, and he told me that once, like, he, I
remember one time we were like laying in

744
00:31:37,513 --> 00:31:43,488
bed one day and processing through some
polyamorous, issue for the umpteenth time.

745
00:31:44,178 --> 00:31:48,328
And he said to me like, why
would I get upset about you

746
00:31:48,328 --> 00:31:49,678
having more love in your life?

747
00:31:49,858 --> 00:31:50,308
Yes.

748
00:31:50,308 --> 00:31:54,268
And that like really struck a chord, you
know, with me because I was like, oh,

749
00:31:54,268 --> 00:31:58,198
it, it, it kind of made sense to me why
my jealousy was so challenging for him.

750
00:31:58,258 --> 00:31:58,348
Mm-hmm.

751
00:31:58,588 --> 00:32:02,578
'cause he also didn't struggle with
jealousy, but in his mind, feeling

752
00:32:02,578 --> 00:32:06,178
that meant that you don't want
this person to have good things.

753
00:32:06,178 --> 00:32:07,078
Where I was like, no.

754
00:32:07,078 --> 00:32:08,518
I said, it's not that at all.

755
00:32:08,938 --> 00:32:11,458
It's not that I don't want you to
have good things, it's just that

756
00:32:11,698 --> 00:32:16,858
you having those things causes
me to feel so bad about myself.

757
00:32:16,918 --> 00:32:17,468
Like, yeah.

758
00:32:17,468 --> 00:32:21,158
And causes me to feel so
much fear and so much threat.

759
00:32:21,218 --> 00:32:21,818
Mm-hmm.

760
00:32:22,268 --> 00:32:25,598
Um, and, um, and I wish it
was different, but it's not.

761
00:32:26,448 --> 00:32:33,318
And, um, and so we had to do a lot
of communicating to at least help the

762
00:32:33,318 --> 00:32:35,928
person somewhat understand the mindset.

763
00:32:36,858 --> 00:32:40,938
So that they weren't turning it into
the stories of like, well, you know,

764
00:32:40,938 --> 00:32:43,968
my partner doesn't want me, like I
said, to have good things or, you know.

765
00:32:44,688 --> 00:32:48,138
My partner just wants to control me
or possess me, or all of those things.

766
00:32:48,138 --> 00:32:50,748
Like, I kind of had to explain,
to my ex-husband, it's like,

767
00:32:50,748 --> 00:32:52,398
no, it's none of those things.

768
00:32:52,428 --> 00:32:56,298
It's that, you know, I'm literally kind
of having this existential crisis around

769
00:32:56,298 --> 00:32:58,008
like, what does this mean about me?

770
00:32:58,918 --> 00:33:05,228
If you experience attraction, desire,
affection regard for someone else.

771
00:33:05,258 --> 00:33:06,908
Um, and so, yeah.

772
00:33:06,908 --> 00:33:12,188
And so like, I often find myself in
circumstances where like, I'm the really

773
00:33:12,188 --> 00:33:15,788
jealous one, and the person that I'm with
is just like, I just don't get it at all.

774
00:33:15,788 --> 00:33:16,298
You know?

775
00:33:17,198 --> 00:33:17,618
Yeah.

776
00:33:17,913 --> 00:33:18,203
It's,

777
00:33:18,728 --> 00:33:19,748
it's very hard.

778
00:33:19,748 --> 00:33:20,923
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

779
00:33:21,398 --> 00:33:22,508
To understand one another.

780
00:33:22,508 --> 00:33:22,778
Yeah.

781
00:33:22,778 --> 00:33:25,238
And you know, like we
couldn't be more opposite.

782
00:33:25,238 --> 00:33:31,148
So I, I came from an abusive household
where I didn't get shown love.

783
00:33:31,238 --> 00:33:31,418
Mm-hmm.

784
00:33:31,658 --> 00:33:33,818
And so I seek it.

785
00:33:34,163 --> 00:33:37,133
I seek that affection,
I seek that attention.

786
00:33:37,193 --> 00:33:41,273
And it took her a long time to
understand why I felt the need

787
00:33:41,273 --> 00:33:45,623
to seek attention and affection
from others when I got it at home.

788
00:33:46,013 --> 00:33:50,543
And when I kind of explained it to her
from the very beginning and just kind

789
00:33:50,543 --> 00:33:54,593
of walked through and she understood
after a while, and she was like, oh,

790
00:33:55,043 --> 00:33:55,133
mm-hmm.

791
00:33:55,373 --> 00:33:55,703
Okay.

792
00:33:55,888 --> 00:33:57,323
I, I, I, I get it.

793
00:33:57,323 --> 00:34:01,313
I mean, I don't, I don't like it,
but I get it and it makes sense now

794
00:34:01,313 --> 00:34:04,073
why we are here in this position.

795
00:34:04,343 --> 00:34:04,703
Yeah.

796
00:34:04,793 --> 00:34:09,313
Um, and so I don't have any jealousy
issues and so it's taken me a lot to,

797
00:34:09,883 --> 00:34:14,533
I'm a big analyzer and I want to analyze,
let's go all the way down to the root.

798
00:34:14,983 --> 00:34:16,843
Reason why you feel this way.

799
00:34:17,323 --> 00:34:19,788
And a lot of times it, it
derives from an insecurity.

800
00:34:19,788 --> 00:34:20,028
Mm-hmm.

801
00:34:20,298 --> 00:34:24,228
Um, a lot of, of jealousies that
she's had, have derived into her

802
00:34:24,318 --> 00:34:29,388
from her own insecurities about how
she feels about herself and, and,

803
00:34:29,393 --> 00:34:30,943
and she thinks that it's coming out.

804
00:34:30,943 --> 00:34:33,293
And I had to show her, look
it's not like that at all.

805
00:34:33,443 --> 00:34:36,203
And so those conversations
are very pivotal now.

806
00:34:36,203 --> 00:34:40,193
I wish we had those conversations
when we were poly because Yeah.

807
00:34:40,223 --> 00:34:43,283
When we were poly, it
was all still so new.

808
00:34:43,373 --> 00:34:43,463
Mm-hmm.

809
00:34:43,793 --> 00:34:47,483
We thought that we had a really
good way of communicating,

810
00:34:47,483 --> 00:34:48,833
and it turns out we didn't.

811
00:34:49,403 --> 00:34:54,863
And I knew she was struggling and because
she was struggling, but not talking

812
00:34:54,863 --> 00:34:58,073
to me about it, I was just kind of
waiting for her to talk to me about it.

813
00:34:58,733 --> 00:35:02,063
And meanwhile, my experiences
were not great because she was

814
00:35:02,063 --> 00:35:03,323
doing everything that she could.

815
00:35:03,323 --> 00:35:03,353
Oh.

816
00:35:03,743 --> 00:35:06,093
I was to make sure that I
wasn't having Yeah, I, I

817
00:35:06,093 --> 00:35:10,093
definitely did what you said,
like, I definitely caused our poly.

818
00:35:10,993 --> 00:35:12,703
Little lifestyle that we had.

819
00:35:13,123 --> 00:35:15,283
I threw wrenches in there for sure.

820
00:35:15,708 --> 00:35:17,173
I, I created Yeah.

821
00:35:17,173 --> 00:35:22,033
Chaos because I was jealous and insecure
and I didn't know how to manage those.

822
00:35:22,033 --> 00:35:23,143
So, and you know when, that's definitely

823
00:35:23,323 --> 00:35:26,683
when your relationship is your
always your number one priority.

824
00:35:26,713 --> 00:35:26,983
Yeah.

825
00:35:26,983 --> 00:35:31,243
The moment that you partner, you
realize your partner is hurting because

826
00:35:31,243 --> 00:35:35,343
of the lifestyle or because of, you
know, non-monogamy and jealousies.

827
00:35:35,823 --> 00:35:39,453
Well then you just kind of want to
go, okay, then I'm not gonna do this.

828
00:35:39,483 --> 00:35:39,753
Yeah.

829
00:35:39,813 --> 00:35:39,873
I

830
00:35:39,873 --> 00:35:40,743
don't wanna hurt you.

831
00:35:41,043 --> 00:35:41,343
Yeah.

832
00:35:41,493 --> 00:35:44,493
And at the same time, you know,
she's like, well, I don't wanna hurt

833
00:35:44,493 --> 00:35:46,503
you and pull you away from this.

834
00:35:46,953 --> 00:35:48,093
We need to figure this out.

835
00:35:48,098 --> 00:35:48,348
Yeah.

836
00:35:48,753 --> 00:35:48,963
Yeah.

837
00:35:49,173 --> 00:35:51,453
And so that's, that's pretty
much how that worked for us.

838
00:35:51,453 --> 00:35:56,793
Now, if we, and I always say, God
forbid it ever happened, we would

839
00:35:56,793 --> 00:35:59,643
never break up because, uh, she would
probably kill me before we break up.

840
00:36:00,183 --> 00:36:02,763
But if we ever broke up.

841
00:36:03,468 --> 00:36:06,318
She would most likely
not be non monogamous.

842
00:36:06,378 --> 00:36:06,738
Yeah.

843
00:36:06,888 --> 00:36:08,898
And I would most likely be polyamorous.

844
00:36:08,898 --> 00:36:09,198
Yeah.

845
00:36:09,198 --> 00:36:09,798
You know what I mean?

846
00:36:09,798 --> 00:36:09,948
Like Yeah.

847
00:36:09,948 --> 00:36:10,398
I'm good with the

848
00:36:10,573 --> 00:36:12,558
mon, I, I'm good with both
and I'm also good with

849
00:36:12,738 --> 00:36:14,133
just the sexual, sexual aspect.

850
00:36:14,133 --> 00:36:14,253
Yeah.

851
00:36:14,258 --> 00:36:14,358
Just the

852
00:36:14,358 --> 00:36:15,168
sexual aspect.

853
00:36:15,168 --> 00:36:18,738
But I'm also good be, I could go, like
you said, I could go back to the monogamy.

854
00:36:18,738 --> 00:36:19,878
I have no problem with that.

855
00:36:20,208 --> 00:36:23,808
Because I find it, it's just sharing
my relationship and I could also,

856
00:36:23,868 --> 00:36:28,698
yeah, I would, if I had to pick and
choose one monogamy works for me, fine.

857
00:36:29,208 --> 00:36:29,568
Yeah.

858
00:36:29,568 --> 00:36:29,628
Yeah.

859
00:36:29,748 --> 00:36:31,843
I don't as non mono times say it,

860
00:36:32,058 --> 00:36:34,878
I think that I'm a monogamous
person that like figured out

861
00:36:34,878 --> 00:36:36,298
how to hack myself, you know?

862
00:36:36,513 --> 00:36:36,803
Yeah.

863
00:36:37,303 --> 00:36:42,318
Not the way I, the way I describe it, I
definitely do feel, pretty polyamorous

864
00:36:42,318 --> 00:36:47,738
now, but it's less about the, having
the capacity to love multiple people

865
00:36:47,738 --> 00:36:52,958
at once, which I can, but and more
about, I just like having the maximum

866
00:36:52,958 --> 00:36:54,878
amount of freedom afforded to me.

867
00:36:55,238 --> 00:36:55,923
Yeah, absolutely.

868
00:36:55,923 --> 00:36:59,108
Um, and absolutely that includes
how I interact with, uh, the

869
00:36:59,108 --> 00:37:00,518
relationships that I form.

870
00:37:00,518 --> 00:37:05,048
So I'm like, how can I get the
maximum amount of freedom possible?

871
00:37:05,468 --> 00:37:09,858
Um, and so that's actually what
propels, you know, my living, uh, yeah.

872
00:37:09,888 --> 00:37:12,408
Non monogamously is that particular thing.

873
00:37:12,408 --> 00:37:15,768
It's like, okay, I want to be able
to be, just choose who I wanna

874
00:37:15,768 --> 00:37:23,238
interact with and how, and so as a
result in order to be, fair, yeah.

875
00:37:23,238 --> 00:37:28,748
I have, you know, in, in my,
you know, ethos, um, I have to,

876
00:37:28,808 --> 00:37:33,848
uh, embrace that my partners get
to share in the same freedoms.

877
00:37:34,118 --> 00:37:34,238
Mm-hmm.

878
00:37:34,268 --> 00:37:39,098
But the, I remember being on a podcast
once and telling someone that, if I

879
00:37:39,128 --> 00:37:44,858
could like wave a magic wand and like
nothing about this would be problematic.

880
00:37:45,358 --> 00:37:47,098
That world does not exist, but whatever.

881
00:37:47,668 --> 00:37:53,368
And so I would be non-monogamous and all
of my partners would be monogamous to me.

882
00:37:53,368 --> 00:37:54,033
You know?

883
00:37:54,533 --> 00:37:54,753
Yes,

884
00:37:55,253 --> 00:37:55,473
yes.

885
00:37:56,453 --> 00:37:57,473
Can you wave that long?

886
00:37:57,973 --> 00:37:58,323
Right.

887
00:37:58,608 --> 00:38:00,228
And they would all be monogamous to me.

888
00:38:00,228 --> 00:38:02,988
'cause they'd be like,
you are just so amazing.

889
00:38:02,988 --> 00:38:06,408
Too perfect, and so great and so
wonderful and too perfect, and so

890
00:38:06,413 --> 00:38:10,678
much humor that I love that there is
just no way that I could hold you.

891
00:38:11,038 --> 00:38:14,998
But also there is no other
person that I could see myself

892
00:38:14,998 --> 00:38:16,048
like really wanting to be with.

893
00:38:16,048 --> 00:38:19,678
And so you go, you be with all
these other people, um, and I

894
00:38:19,678 --> 00:38:21,328
am just gonna be devoted to you.

895
00:38:21,328 --> 00:38:22,408
Like, oh my God.

896
00:38:22,528 --> 00:38:23,458
Like, I'd be like, yes.

897
00:38:23,608 --> 00:38:24,328
Who wouldn't want that?

898
00:38:24,398 --> 00:38:25,043
Can we have that?

899
00:38:25,043 --> 00:38:25,323
Who wouldn't want?

900
00:38:25,328 --> 00:38:26,738
Can we have that spell over here?

901
00:38:27,238 --> 00:38:28,023
Right, right.

902
00:38:28,023 --> 00:38:32,883
You know, but because of my my like
I said, ethic of like wanting freedom

903
00:38:32,883 --> 00:38:35,523
and then also wanting freedom for
the people around me, you know?

904
00:38:35,523 --> 00:38:38,643
So polyamory is very much, or my
movement through my relationships

905
00:38:38,643 --> 00:38:41,278
is very much a liberatory
practice as well, you know, Uhhuh.

906
00:38:41,778 --> 00:38:47,208
So, you know, how are we engaging in
relationships where people feel liberated,

907
00:38:47,268 --> 00:38:49,068
you know, and not feel constraints.

908
00:38:49,068 --> 00:38:57,028
Constraints, tie down uh, you know,
having to you know, not at least,

909
00:38:57,528 --> 00:39:01,098
I don't wanna say maybe like,
maybe entertain, their desires.

910
00:39:01,098 --> 00:39:03,138
So it's like certain desires
you have to just completely

911
00:39:03,138 --> 00:39:04,578
stifle and put them on ice.

912
00:39:04,578 --> 00:39:06,768
And I'm like, eh, you know,
do you really have to do that?

913
00:39:07,368 --> 00:39:09,438
So is there something else that we can do?

914
00:39:09,488 --> 00:39:09,848
Mm-hmm.

915
00:39:10,023 --> 00:39:13,443
So, um, and so, yeah, so
obviously, you know, I would not.

916
00:39:13,943 --> 00:39:17,093
You know, I embrace that my partners
are gonna have other people.

917
00:39:17,613 --> 00:39:21,183
And I've actually been fortunate
that, you know, throughout the

918
00:39:21,183 --> 00:39:27,603
course of my journey, I have been
able to develop more compersion.

919
00:39:28,413 --> 00:39:29,613
Um, but it was intentional.

920
00:39:29,613 --> 00:39:31,688
It was very much an intentional
practice of going mm-hmm.

921
00:39:31,768 --> 00:39:31,928
Okay.

922
00:39:32,073 --> 00:39:32,528
Like mm-hmm.

923
00:39:33,048 --> 00:39:36,363
I, I, I feel like what happens is people
come into the non-monogamous community,

924
00:39:36,363 --> 00:39:40,983
they hear about Compersion, they hear
these people who are probably clearly

925
00:39:40,983 --> 00:39:42,693
further along, you know, than they are.

926
00:39:42,693 --> 00:39:46,713
So they move through a lot of this stuff,
talking about feeling compersion, and

927
00:39:46,713 --> 00:39:49,623
then people are like, oh my God, I have
to figure out how to get to that emotion.

928
00:39:50,043 --> 00:39:52,893
And it's such naivety to me at best.

929
00:39:52,983 --> 00:39:56,553
And delusion meant okay
at, um, while worse.

930
00:39:56,883 --> 00:40:01,623
To imagine that you're gonna
go from my partner, having a

931
00:40:01,623 --> 00:40:06,903
relationship with someone else in
any context or capacity is bad to.

932
00:40:07,488 --> 00:40:10,818
It's this wonderful thing that I
feel really great about, like with

933
00:40:10,818 --> 00:40:12,438
one decision to be polyamorous.

934
00:40:12,438 --> 00:40:15,208
Like no, that's a, a
gradual process of mm-hmm.

935
00:40:15,228 --> 00:40:16,533
You know, sort of walking towards that.

936
00:40:17,163 --> 00:40:21,153
So at first I was shooting for Compersion
and when it was like, oh, Vita, we

937
00:40:21,153 --> 00:40:22,503
do not feel that naturally, honey.

938
00:40:23,103 --> 00:40:27,393
Then it was like, okay, like maybe I
can just shoot for indifference, yeah.

939
00:40:27,693 --> 00:40:30,183
Can I just do for neutrality to
where I'm just like, I don't feel

940
00:40:30,183 --> 00:40:31,773
bad or good about this, you know?

941
00:40:31,773 --> 00:40:37,083
I feel committed to the agreement
that we made to live this way.

942
00:40:37,863 --> 00:40:40,893
Um, but like, I don't feel
good or bad about, you know, my

943
00:40:40,893 --> 00:40:42,063
partner being with someone else.

944
00:40:42,063 --> 00:40:42,783
It just is.

945
00:40:42,783 --> 00:40:46,318
And so I had to like work towards getting
to that point, Evita, and, and then so

946
00:40:46,773 --> 00:40:48,663
can we get, I don't mean
place feel more progress,

947
00:40:49,113 --> 00:40:50,103
I don't mean to cut you off.

948
00:40:50,103 --> 00:40:50,973
I'm curious though.

949
00:40:51,243 --> 00:40:54,998
So in that specific form
of indifference mm-hmm.

950
00:40:55,458 --> 00:41:00,423
Do you feel at all that
it's almost a, a disconnect?

951
00:41:01,288 --> 00:41:02,938
Do you feel like that's what I
call it, disconnected at all?

952
00:41:02,938 --> 00:41:04,438
When, when you hit that indifference?

953
00:41:04,618 --> 00:41:08,008
Because I noticed Pris does the same
thing and I, and I, I, I love it.

954
00:41:08,008 --> 00:41:12,938
I'm very grateful for it because she's
learned how to kind of roll her eyes and

955
00:41:12,938 --> 00:41:14,648
walk away to certain things that she sees.

956
00:41:14,648 --> 00:41:15,218
She's like, you know what?

957
00:41:15,278 --> 00:41:15,668
Whatever.

958
00:41:16,208 --> 00:41:17,648
Uh, and I appreciate that.

959
00:41:17,648 --> 00:41:18,998
It makes things easier for me.

960
00:41:19,338 --> 00:41:22,818
But at the same time, do you feel
like there's a level of disconnect?

961
00:41:23,318 --> 00:41:24,068
No.

962
00:41:24,178 --> 00:41:29,278
I think that we have this notion
that we're supposed to, like

963
00:41:29,938 --> 00:41:33,508
everything that our partners do
in order to be able to support it.

964
00:41:33,603 --> 00:41:38,643
And in that context, I didn't
feel a disconnect because I was

965
00:41:38,643 --> 00:41:40,083
connected to what was going on.

966
00:41:40,083 --> 00:41:41,343
I just didn't like it, you know?

967
00:41:41,728 --> 00:41:43,188
It made me uncomfortable, you know?

968
00:41:43,378 --> 00:41:43,668
Yeah.

969
00:41:43,738 --> 00:41:44,348
Sometimes.

970
00:41:44,898 --> 00:41:45,188
Yeah.

971
00:41:45,328 --> 00:41:45,548
So,

972
00:41:45,963 --> 00:41:49,173
um, and so for me, indifference was about.

973
00:41:49,673 --> 00:41:53,753
Kind of going like, eh, I'm not all
that jazzed that, like, this is the

974
00:41:53,753 --> 00:41:58,163
thing that's causing my partner to feel
fulfillment, but I'm like, glad that

975
00:41:58,163 --> 00:41:59,773
they're pursuing their fulfillment, yeah.

976
00:41:59,953 --> 00:42:02,273
And so that was kind of
where I stayed, mm-hmm.

977
00:42:02,353 --> 00:42:03,168
For a little while.

978
00:42:03,558 --> 00:42:03,768
Mm-hmm.

979
00:42:04,368 --> 00:42:09,618
Um, and then, I started moving towards,
well, let me see if I can develop ways

980
00:42:09,618 --> 00:42:11,328
where I feel positively about this.

981
00:42:11,328 --> 00:42:12,858
Or can I move the needle
a little bit more?

982
00:42:12,858 --> 00:42:15,558
That's why I call it, can I move the
needle, you know, a little bit more

983
00:42:15,558 --> 00:42:20,988
towards, I can actually experience
feeling good, you know, about my

984
00:42:20,988 --> 00:42:22,608
partner interacting with other people.

985
00:42:22,668 --> 00:42:27,048
And I, you know, I'm happy to
report that I was able to, you know,

986
00:42:27,048 --> 00:42:29,358
move the needle, uh, considerably.

987
00:42:29,358 --> 00:42:33,628
So, but I still, what I find, I
never really found that I just have

988
00:42:33,628 --> 00:42:38,248
these situations where I'm just
completely void of jealousy or India.

989
00:42:38,248 --> 00:42:39,988
It's more like ratios, you know?

990
00:42:40,693 --> 00:42:44,913
So I may have ratios where my
jealousy quotient is like 2%, yeah.

991
00:42:44,943 --> 00:42:47,393
But it's still there, you
know, so it's still there.

992
00:42:47,393 --> 00:42:51,783
It's just so mild that it's not even
worth mentioning or some other feeling

993
00:42:51,783 --> 00:42:57,453
is, is far more present and far more
salient, um, than, you know, my jealousy.

994
00:42:57,453 --> 00:43:01,513
But, I tend to, like I said, I'm
just kind of, so one of the concepts

995
00:43:01,513 --> 00:43:05,893
that I came up with for myself is
that as human beings, we all have our

996
00:43:05,893 --> 00:43:08,023
individual personal emotional index.

997
00:43:08,523 --> 00:43:13,083
And in the wide swath of human emotions,
we have our own personal emotional index.

998
00:43:13,113 --> 00:43:16,893
And some emotions we experience
to a high degree, some emotions we

999
00:43:16,893 --> 00:43:19,323
experience to a mid, you know, degree.

1000
00:43:19,953 --> 00:43:23,133
Um, and some emotions we experience,
you know, little to none at all.

1001
00:43:23,863 --> 00:43:28,613
Um, for me, embarrassment and shame are
emotions that I don't experience a ton of.

1002
00:43:29,313 --> 00:43:33,483
But jealousy is one that I experience,
um, uh, you know, pretty highly.

1003
00:43:34,243 --> 00:43:37,123
And so I've just come to,
like I said, embrace that.

1004
00:43:37,123 --> 00:43:40,463
Like, this is my emotional
reaction to this stuff, more often

1005
00:43:40,463 --> 00:43:42,053
than not, or a lot of the time.

1006
00:43:42,713 --> 00:43:44,813
Um, also too, jealousy.

1007
00:43:44,873 --> 00:43:48,023
It doesn't just tell you about insecurity.

1008
00:43:48,023 --> 00:43:52,083
Sometimes it tells you that something
in your relationship isn't right.

1009
00:43:52,303 --> 00:43:54,043
It needs to be taken a
look at and addressed.

1010
00:43:54,043 --> 00:43:59,683
Sometimes it tells you that you are
hungry and your blood sugar's low.

1011
00:44:00,183 --> 00:44:00,603
Yeah.

1012
00:44:01,103 --> 00:44:01,763
Or something like that.

1013
00:44:01,763 --> 00:44:02,273
Yes.

1014
00:44:02,693 --> 00:44:05,153
Or having a sinus infection combination.

1015
00:44:05,243 --> 00:44:07,643
I often find that it's a
combination of things actually.

1016
00:44:07,643 --> 00:44:07,663
Oh yeah.

1017
00:44:07,728 --> 00:44:09,298
It's never just one thing.

1018
00:44:09,563 --> 00:44:09,713
Yeah.

1019
00:44:09,713 --> 00:44:11,153
It's usually a combination of things

1020
00:44:11,813 --> 00:44:12,983
We had to really dig.

1021
00:44:12,983 --> 00:44:17,033
We had a, uh, before we close
off, we had a really big event

1022
00:44:17,093 --> 00:44:20,213
and I had a sinus infection.

1023
00:44:20,363 --> 00:44:20,633
Yeah.

1024
00:44:20,843 --> 00:44:21,233
And.

1025
00:44:21,803 --> 00:44:25,673
During this event, and the event was
supposed to be, it's, it was a three,

1026
00:44:25,763 --> 00:44:28,793
three nights and it was supposed to
be a lot of fun, you know, enjoying

1027
00:44:28,793 --> 00:44:30,323
each other, enjoying other people.

1028
00:44:31,313 --> 00:44:34,043
I had a sinus infection and I was needy.

1029
00:44:34,043 --> 00:44:40,433
So jealousy came out like the big bad
wolf and was like, yeah, no, I need

1030
00:44:40,463 --> 00:44:42,323
you to take care of me right now.

1031
00:44:42,323 --> 00:44:45,293
You are not to like, and
I didn't express that.

1032
00:44:45,293 --> 00:44:47,363
I expressed it in jealousy.

1033
00:44:47,363 --> 00:44:50,513
In jealousy, in
controlling and insecurity.

1034
00:44:50,783 --> 00:44:53,843
And every negative little
way you can think of.

1035
00:44:53,993 --> 00:44:57,023
I totally controlled
that situation with that.

1036
00:44:57,443 --> 00:45:05,313
And wasn't healthy, wasn't good, wasn't an
experience that I ever wanna have again.

1037
00:45:05,313 --> 00:45:07,858
But to sit back and finally
realize you learned a lot.

1038
00:45:07,918 --> 00:45:08,578
Oh, that's what it was.

1039
00:45:08,883 --> 00:45:09,063
You know?

1040
00:45:09,063 --> 00:45:09,123
Yeah.

1041
00:45:09,393 --> 00:45:13,173
But it did take me, yeah, it
took me to understand really,

1042
00:45:13,203 --> 00:45:14,583
I had to do it really fast.

1043
00:45:14,913 --> 00:45:16,143
Why was I acting like this?

1044
00:45:16,143 --> 00:45:17,193
Why was that happening?

1045
00:45:17,253 --> 00:45:17,913
And.

1046
00:45:18,633 --> 00:45:22,023
Control the situation fast, because
it could have blown up, it could have

1047
00:45:22,023 --> 00:45:23,103
got worse, it could have whatever.

1048
00:45:23,223 --> 00:45:23,283
Yeah.

1049
00:45:23,613 --> 00:45:26,598
It does take a lot to like stop
and just think and, figure out

1050
00:45:26,598 --> 00:45:30,168
what you're struggling with and try
to make that change really quick.

1051
00:45:30,168 --> 00:45:33,348
Because it could be catastrophic.

1052
00:45:33,618 --> 00:45:34,188
It could be.

1053
00:45:34,193 --> 00:45:34,323
Yeah.

1054
00:45:34,338 --> 00:45:34,788
Yeah.

1055
00:45:34,788 --> 00:45:39,483
I liken it to, so something happens,
you get activated and if you think of

1056
00:45:39,483 --> 00:45:44,373
yourself as like, at a, like a train
station, and something happens, um, you

1057
00:45:44,373 --> 00:45:48,563
get activated and a train pulls up to
the station and you just get on it, um,

1058
00:45:48,563 --> 00:45:53,123
and you know that that train is like
careening towards a wall, you know?

1059
00:45:53,333 --> 00:45:53,603
Mm-hmm.

1060
00:45:53,808 --> 00:45:54,228
Mm-hmm.

1061
00:45:54,328 --> 00:45:57,833
But now you, you done got on
the damn train and so now you're

1062
00:45:57,833 --> 00:45:59,213
getting careening towards the wall.

1063
00:45:59,243 --> 00:46:02,243
So I had to learn how to
get off a few stops sooner,

1064
00:46:02,363 --> 00:46:02,783
yeah.

1065
00:46:02,913 --> 00:46:06,333
Um, and then eventually, you know,
I got to the place to where I would

1066
00:46:06,333 --> 00:46:09,063
like barely get on the train at
all, you know, when it came up.

1067
00:46:09,753 --> 00:46:13,913
But but you know, that took time and
practice to sort of develop those skills

1068
00:46:13,913 --> 00:46:16,883
to, like you said, you know, even if you
experience that emotion to be able to

1069
00:46:16,883 --> 00:46:18,273
pivot, you know, in the moment mm-hmm.

1070
00:46:18,273 --> 00:46:18,628
Mm-hmm.

1071
00:46:18,983 --> 00:46:19,043
So

1072
00:46:19,073 --> 00:46:22,873
that you're not engaging in these really,
really, like, just horrible behaviors.

1073
00:46:22,903 --> 00:46:22,963
Yeah.

1074
00:46:23,263 --> 00:46:26,753
Because you're, you know, experiencing
this, very visceral emotion.

1075
00:46:27,443 --> 00:46:27,653
Yeah.

1076
00:46:27,683 --> 00:46:27,833
So,

1077
00:46:27,833 --> 00:46:28,313
yeah.

1078
00:46:29,033 --> 00:46:32,543
Now Evita, uh, Evita, we're, we're
gonna start wrapping up, but before

1079
00:46:32,543 --> 00:46:38,273
we do we have a lot of listeners who
are maybe new to the lifestyle or new

1080
00:46:38,273 --> 00:46:40,073
to polyamory, new to non-monogamy.

1081
00:46:40,073 --> 00:46:40,253
Mm-hmm.

1082
00:46:40,253 --> 00:46:40,793
Period.

1083
00:46:40,798 --> 00:46:40,888
Mm-hmm.

1084
00:46:41,068 --> 00:46:44,513
Uh, and then there's a lot of
listeners who are just trying to

1085
00:46:44,603 --> 00:46:46,943
learn how to grow in non-monogamy.

1086
00:46:47,333 --> 00:46:51,033
And so there's always a lot of
really great information that

1087
00:46:51,123 --> 00:46:52,203
that guests put out there.

1088
00:46:52,353 --> 00:46:58,113
You had said earlier, freedom, that's one
of the reasons why I love non-monogamy.

1089
00:46:58,143 --> 00:47:03,033
And when I first became polyamorous,
I did like a lot of people, which

1090
00:47:03,033 --> 00:47:06,663
is, I felt like I had, I, I was a
Pokemon, I was trying to collect all

1091
00:47:06,663 --> 00:47:10,653
the cards, you know, I was trying to
get into as many situation ships or

1092
00:47:10,653 --> 00:47:14,913
relationships as much as I could, because
I felt like that's what we had to do.

1093
00:47:15,283 --> 00:47:20,113
And then I learned later on that
it, I didn't want that at all.

1094
00:47:20,113 --> 00:47:24,343
What I just wanted was the freedom
to be able to, if I chose to.

1095
00:47:25,063 --> 00:47:25,888
Uh, and so, mm-hmm.

1096
00:47:26,093 --> 00:47:30,513
I think a lot of people are realizing,
Hey, I don't have to date everybody now.

1097
00:47:30,513 --> 00:47:34,683
That's from my own tangent, but I'm
curious from your own tangent, for

1098
00:47:34,683 --> 00:47:39,603
people who are new to this space,
what is the, what's the biggest

1099
00:47:39,603 --> 00:47:43,653
advice that you could give to
someone who's just learning about it?

1100
00:47:44,153 --> 00:47:45,053
Curiosity.

1101
00:47:45,553 --> 00:47:50,763
And gratitude before you get upset,
get curious is one thing that I heard

1102
00:47:50,763 --> 00:47:52,773
somewhere that has been my saving grace.

1103
00:47:52,833 --> 00:48:02,143
And then also shifting from seeing your
relationships as like sites where you

1104
00:48:02,143 --> 00:48:04,483
know, you, you like your old things.

1105
00:48:04,573 --> 00:48:07,648
This is my right, this is my
birthright, the entitle entitlement.

1106
00:48:07,743 --> 00:48:08,733
Mm-hmm.

1107
00:48:08,973 --> 00:48:09,243
Right.

1108
00:48:09,243 --> 00:48:09,453
Yeah.

1109
00:48:09,453 --> 00:48:10,113
Entitlement.

1110
00:48:10,113 --> 00:48:15,663
And instead, you know, shifting
to a model where you're seeking

1111
00:48:15,663 --> 00:48:17,733
to find the gratitude space first.

1112
00:48:17,733 --> 00:48:20,283
I feel like that always puts me
in the right attitude, you know?

1113
00:48:20,283 --> 00:48:20,403
Mm-hmm.

1114
00:48:20,463 --> 00:48:23,223
Even when I'm upset or frustrated
or my partner has done a thing

1115
00:48:24,063 --> 00:48:27,873
that I don't like I try to look
for, okay, what am I grateful for?

1116
00:48:28,143 --> 00:48:33,503
Because it's a reminder to me that,
anytime, any regard, any affection that

1117
00:48:33,503 --> 00:48:38,063
someone chooses to give you is very
much a gift and very much a choice.

1118
00:48:38,063 --> 00:48:39,323
Mm-hmm.

1119
00:48:39,324 --> 00:48:41,123
Um, and they could be
making a different choice.

1120
00:48:41,783 --> 00:48:49,643
And it allowed me to begin to, uh,
break down seeing all of those things

1121
00:48:49,643 --> 00:48:54,293
as mine, their regard, their attention,
their time, whatever they belong to me.

1122
00:48:54,833 --> 00:48:58,433
And so when I'm, you know, when
I am, you know, trying to cash in

1123
00:48:58,433 --> 00:49:01,893
on it, you know, give me what I'm
owed, you know, what I belong to.

1124
00:49:02,393 --> 00:49:08,188
And that was really crucial for me and,
um, embracing the monogamy because it,

1125
00:49:08,693 --> 00:49:12,353
helped me to sort of break down this idea
that, you know, my partner was giving what

1126
00:49:12,353 --> 00:49:14,243
belonged to me to other people, right.

1127
00:49:14,248 --> 00:49:14,448
Mm-hmm.

1128
00:49:15,318 --> 00:49:19,733
Instead of, they were sharing what
belonged to them with the people

1129
00:49:19,763 --> 00:49:23,183
that they wanted to, and it is.

1130
00:49:23,618 --> 00:49:27,788
A blessing that I, you know, they
choose me to be one of those people.

1131
00:49:28,288 --> 00:49:31,678
Um, and so that was also very
pivotal, you know, for me is

1132
00:49:31,678 --> 00:49:33,748
to remember gratitude first.

1133
00:49:33,748 --> 00:49:35,188
A gratitude first approach.

1134
00:49:35,968 --> 00:49:39,388
Um, and then also, you know, a
curiosity, a beginner's mind.

1135
00:49:39,448 --> 00:49:42,448
You know, they talk about in Buddhism,
you know, the beginner's mind, yeah.

1136
00:49:42,478 --> 00:49:46,018
Keeping a mind of curiosity
and openness and wonder, huh.

1137
00:49:46,078 --> 00:49:46,828
I felt that.

1138
00:49:46,858 --> 00:49:47,458
Wow.

1139
00:49:47,458 --> 00:49:48,838
That's so fascinating.

1140
00:49:48,898 --> 00:49:49,228
Why?

1141
00:49:49,228 --> 00:49:50,098
What was that about?

1142
00:49:50,098 --> 00:49:50,518
You know?

1143
00:49:50,518 --> 00:49:51,178
Mm-hmm.

1144
00:49:51,373 --> 00:49:51,593
Huh.

1145
00:49:51,778 --> 00:49:53,128
You know, this is what I thought about.

1146
00:49:53,128 --> 00:49:54,448
This is how this impacted me.

1147
00:49:54,448 --> 00:49:55,528
Or, you know, wow.

1148
00:49:55,528 --> 00:50:00,568
You know, I, that he went out on a date
with someone and I was totally fine with

1149
00:50:01,318 --> 00:50:07,638
like them, like, fucking, you know, at
a sex party for hours, but they went to.

1150
00:50:08,193 --> 00:50:11,018
The restaurant that we went to on our
first date, and I fell apart, you know,

1151
00:50:11,358 --> 00:50:14,608
so it's so funny, did you read my diary?

1152
00:50:15,108 --> 00:50:15,458
Right?

1153
00:50:15,678 --> 00:50:20,143
You know, it, you know, I find it so
fascinating, the what is the thing, yeah.

1154
00:50:20,143 --> 00:50:22,843
For us, and the thing that's
for us is very different

1155
00:50:22,843 --> 00:50:23,983
from the thing for a partner.

1156
00:50:24,643 --> 00:50:28,033
So the partner may not care about the
restaurant, but maybe like, y'all went to

1157
00:50:28,033 --> 00:50:31,213
a sex club, you know, and that's the thing
that, you know, was, was it for them?

1158
00:50:31,973 --> 00:50:32,933
Um, and so, yeah.

1159
00:50:32,933 --> 00:50:36,413
And so, uh, you know, being
curious about those things.

1160
00:50:36,473 --> 00:50:41,813
Um, it's also a saving grace because
I think curiosity allows us the space

1161
00:50:41,813 --> 00:50:48,153
to meet, um, what comes forward for
us with a lot more like openness and

1162
00:50:48,153 --> 00:50:51,573
less judgment, because you're not
seeing it as, a lot of times, you know,

1163
00:50:51,573 --> 00:50:54,123
we have our emotional reaction and
people just go, you're not supposed

1164
00:50:54,123 --> 00:50:55,343
to be here, you shouldn't be here.

1165
00:50:55,373 --> 00:50:59,238
You know, they do that to their emotions,
whereas curiosity says, oh, you're here.

1166
00:51:00,158 --> 00:51:00,998
Wow.

1167
00:51:01,028 --> 00:51:02,168
Let me find out why.

1168
00:51:02,228 --> 00:51:02,768
Mm-hmm.

1169
00:51:03,243 --> 00:51:06,488
Um, and, um, and so yeah,
so curiosity and gratitude.

1170
00:51:06,698 --> 00:51:08,348
Remember C, curiosity and gratitude.

1171
00:51:08,738 --> 00:51:09,368
I love that.

1172
00:51:09,368 --> 00:51:09,458
Mm-hmm.

1173
00:51:09,698 --> 00:51:09,818
Yeah.

1174
00:51:09,878 --> 00:51:10,833
That's man, those are

1175
00:51:10,833 --> 00:51:11,473
gonna stay with me.

1176
00:51:11,773 --> 00:51:14,258
Evita, you're just throwing
out gold left and right.

1177
00:51:14,258 --> 00:51:14,348
I know.

1178
00:51:14,808 --> 00:51:17,658
I could talk about this
stuff with you all day.

1179
00:51:17,658 --> 00:51:19,608
Evita, this was such a good conversation.

1180
00:51:19,608 --> 00:51:23,501
Big shout out to Evita
"Lavitaloca" Sawyers for hanging

1181
00:51:23,521 --> 00:51:25,261
out with us and keeping it real.

1182
00:51:25,351 --> 00:51:25,591
Yeah.

1183
00:51:25,591 --> 00:51:26,221
Seriously.

1184
00:51:26,221 --> 00:51:28,171
Thank you for being so
vulnerable and honest.

1185
00:51:28,171 --> 00:51:31,141
And if you guys aren't already
following her, you need to fix that.

1186
00:51:31,441 --> 00:51:34,501
She's on Instagram, she's
on Facebook, her website.

1187
00:51:34,501 --> 00:51:38,251
We're gonna keep all of her
little tags on our show.

1188
00:51:38,401 --> 00:51:39,031
Absolutely.

1189
00:51:39,031 --> 00:51:40,141
It'll be on our show notes.

1190
00:51:40,141 --> 00:51:40,321
Awesome.

1191
00:51:40,321 --> 00:51:43,441
As well as, uh, her
guest bio on our website.

1192
00:51:43,501 --> 00:51:44,041
Nice.

1193
00:51:44,251 --> 00:51:47,166
Uh, so you know also what we mentioned
at the beginning of the show.

1194
00:51:47,166 --> 00:51:47,406
Mm-hmm.

1195
00:51:47,486 --> 00:51:51,571
She's an author of " a polyamory
devotional", which is basically a

1196
00:51:51,571 --> 00:51:56,131
year's worth of bite-sized reflections
that'll make you rethink how you

1197
00:51:56,131 --> 00:51:58,051
show up in your relationships.

1198
00:51:58,391 --> 00:52:04,061
As always, don't forget to hit
us up www.beyond-monogamy.com.

1199
00:52:04,061 --> 00:52:07,901
That's where you'll find everything
on our, uh, you know, from our events

1200
00:52:07,901 --> 00:52:10,901
calendar, our merch, the blog, our guest.

1201
00:52:11,211 --> 00:52:11,961
Bios, yes.

1202
00:52:11,991 --> 00:52:14,001
Where you can find everything
about our guests as well as our

1203
00:52:14,001 --> 00:52:19,401
episodes and our Beyond Monogamy
Confessional, which is 100% anonymous.

1204
00:52:19,401 --> 00:52:21,171
You can interact with us, the show.

1205
00:52:21,501 --> 00:52:24,411
Tell us your stories, your
secrets, whatever you wanna share.

1206
00:52:24,626 --> 00:52:28,731
If, if you don't like this lifestyle and
you wanna spew it out with your partner

1207
00:52:28,791 --> 00:52:33,051
not knowing about it, by all means, that's
what you can do, that you can drop us.

1208
00:52:33,341 --> 00:52:35,681
All of your questions and your
wildest stories for the show,

1209
00:52:35,681 --> 00:52:36,791
we love hearing from you.

1210
00:52:36,791 --> 00:52:37,331
Seriously.

1211
00:52:37,661 --> 00:52:39,071
That's what keeps us going.

1212
00:52:39,131 --> 00:52:39,671
Yes.

1213
00:52:39,671 --> 00:52:43,151
And don't forget to like, subscribe,
review, and share the show on

1214
00:52:43,151 --> 00:52:44,501
whatever platform you're listening.

1215
00:52:44,561 --> 00:52:46,541
Apple, Spotify, YouTube, all of it.

1216
00:52:46,721 --> 00:52:50,831
It helps us grow and it helps more
curious couples, find out conversations.

1217
00:52:50,831 --> 00:52:51,431
Yes.

1218
00:52:51,761 --> 00:52:55,241
Uh, you can also catch us on
fullswapradio.com every Thursday at

1219
00:52:55,241 --> 00:52:57,251
2:00 PM and 7:00 PM Central Time.

1220
00:52:57,641 --> 00:53:00,551
Come hang out with us there and
catch all the other awesome lifestyle

1221
00:53:00,551 --> 00:53:01,991
shows that are there as well.

1222
00:53:02,181 --> 00:53:06,351
To all our listeners who tune in every
week, keep growing, keep feeling, keep

1223
00:53:06,351 --> 00:53:08,361
doing this thing on your own damn terms.

1224
00:53:08,361 --> 00:53:10,161
That's what we all are trying to do.

1225
00:53:10,161 --> 00:53:11,061
We're trying to grow.

1226
00:53:11,061 --> 00:53:11,511
Yes.

1227
00:53:11,571 --> 00:53:14,271
Uh, and with that, we will
see you all next week.

1228
00:53:14,271 --> 00:53:15,351
Bye.