Queer, Curious & Candid: Catching Up with Jeremy

1
00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:23,760
This podcast is intended for mature audiences only. We explore topics

2
00:00:24,260 --> 00:00:27,820
surrounding sexuality, intimate relationships, and related subjects in

3
00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:32,220
an open and candid manner. Please be advised that we are not licensed marriage or

4
00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:37,100
sex therapists, and the content shared here is for entertainment and informational purposes

5
00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:41,060
only. If you are under 18 years of age or prefer not to engage with

6
00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:45,620
discussions about sex, relationships or mature language, we strongly recommend

7
00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:49,580
that you refrain from listening further. However, if you are of legal age and

8
00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:53,380
comfortable with this content, we invite you to settle in and enjoy the show.

9
00:00:55,500 --> 00:00:59,260
Hello and welcome to another episode of Beyond Monogamy. I'm Adam. And I'm

10
00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:03,660
Pris. And today we are actually broadcasting

11
00:01:03,820 --> 00:01:07,180
from the area of Chicago. It's very different

12
00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:11,220
for us. We decided to take a. A nice little trip out here and

13
00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:15,660
spend some time with some friends and some family and we actually

14
00:01:15,740 --> 00:01:18,980
have joining us. It's very different from what we usually have.

15
00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:23,020
We have joining us a good friend of mine from all the

16
00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:27,060
way from middle school actually, but pretty much my best friend throughout high

17
00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:31,220
school. His name is Jeremy. And we figured it would be a lot of fun

18
00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:34,980
to have a discussion. We really haven't talked about our

19
00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:39,220
lifestyle with him and it would be a lot of fun to discuss

20
00:01:40,020 --> 00:01:42,860
kind of where we were in the process of catching up. And it's like,

21
00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:46,740
well, let's do this on the show. Why not? Yeah, let's have some fun.

22
00:01:47,020 --> 00:01:50,940
So with that, I'd like to introduce a good friend of mine. Jeremy. Welcome.

23
00:01:51,180 --> 00:01:54,620
Welcome to the show. Well, hello. Well, thank you for having me. Yes,

24
00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:58,620
it's, it's. I'm very excited now. No blushing,

25
00:01:58,940 --> 00:02:02,700
Jeremy, because I understand, you know, you. You do know,

26
00:02:02,779 --> 00:02:06,220
very briefly, you know, I, I think I might have thrown it at

27
00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:08,700
you like a bag of bricks the other day where I texted you and I

28
00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:12,500
said, well, we're swingers. Yeah, you surprised me. Yeah, Yeah, I really threw that one

29
00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:17,890
out. Now, you know, we. We go very way back and

30
00:02:17,970 --> 00:02:21,730
you know, everything that we've been through as far as

31
00:02:22,230 --> 00:02:26,370
high school and stuff. You. You remember those days? Oh, I remember relatively well.

32
00:02:26,850 --> 00:02:30,370
So now when I threw that at you, as far as us being

33
00:02:30,450 --> 00:02:33,890
swingers, what was your initial reaction?

34
00:02:34,370 --> 00:02:37,610
Well, first I was really surprised. Cause I've always seen you as such a family

35
00:02:38,110 --> 00:02:41,250
man and so, you know, you see Facebook, you know, we don't talk every day.

36
00:02:41,750 --> 00:02:45,060
Right. We be. We. We've kept in touch over social media, we've had occasional conversations,

37
00:02:45,620 --> 00:02:48,940
but we haven't really gotten into your personal life, you know, like the day to

38
00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:52,300
day. So when you said that the day to day, you know, I thought that

39
00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:55,980
was very progressive and yeah, it just shocked me. Cause I just didn't know you

40
00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:59,620
that way growing up. But maybe you didn't discover this till later in life.

41
00:02:59,780 --> 00:03:02,620
It was. Yeah, it was. It was a lot later in life. Now I will

42
00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:05,380
tell you, and I've said this on the show a few times. I. I did

43
00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:09,720
notice when I was in high school, I didn't realize there was a name for

44
00:03:10,220 --> 00:03:12,480
it, but I always felt like there was something wrong with me because I would

45
00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:16,520
be in a relationship and I would want to be

46
00:03:17,020 --> 00:03:19,520
with others while in that relationship. Yeah.

47
00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:22,840
So it was. I just felt like there was something wrong with me. I was

48
00:03:23,340 --> 00:03:26,560
like, why can't I just focus on this one person and this, this and that

49
00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:30,840
now just kind of catch you up. So we've

50
00:03:31,340 --> 00:03:34,000
been together. We're going on 15 years now.

51
00:03:34,700 --> 00:03:37,820
Wow. Yeah. Yeah. This, this, this coming year.

52
00:03:38,140 --> 00:03:42,140
That's a long time. We'll have our 15 year anniversary in.

53
00:03:43,340 --> 00:03:46,540
At the end of this. Yeah. The. The latter quarter of this year.

54
00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:49,780
I don't know, it's. It's been a nice vacation. I don't feel like turning on

55
00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:54,300
my brain for that. But we've been together for about 15 years and

56
00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:58,100
we've been in the lifestyle for about 14 years. Yeah. So we've been

57
00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:01,910
doing this for a while. Pris was actually doing

58
00:04:02,410 --> 00:04:05,830
it before I was in her previous relationship. Drugged him in.

59
00:04:06,230 --> 00:04:10,230
Yeah. Well, because she likes women. Yeah. So that's really what

60
00:04:10,390 --> 00:04:13,990
spurned this for us. I came out as bisexual.

61
00:04:14,490 --> 00:04:18,150
I was always sexual, but nobody knew. And then when I got with Adam,

62
00:04:18,650 --> 00:04:22,150
I explained that to him and he was like, great, let's do this.

63
00:04:22,470 --> 00:04:25,870
And so it took about a year because I was very protective and territorial

64
00:04:26,370 --> 00:04:30,170
and jealous. And after little steps, I was

65
00:04:30,670 --> 00:04:33,970
like, all right, let's do this now. So he lets me just be as free

66
00:04:34,470 --> 00:04:37,570
as I want to be. Yeah. Yeah. And. And you know, it's.

67
00:04:38,070 --> 00:04:42,090
It's so. It. But it's been a progression. So when we first started, it wasn't

68
00:04:42,590 --> 00:04:45,530
like that. You know, it was very. I don't know. She dealt with. I love

69
00:04:46,030 --> 00:04:49,730
your face. I. Because I'm just. I'm imagining like you all first meeting.

70
00:04:49,890 --> 00:04:53,270
Okay. And then having the conversation because you both,

71
00:04:53,910 --> 00:04:57,870
you both were married prior. Yes. Yeah. Relationships prior. So there's

72
00:04:58,370 --> 00:05:01,030
that dynamic. But then to meet together and only be together for a year.

73
00:05:01,530 --> 00:05:04,870
Like how do you go from that to being together a year and having such

74
00:05:05,370 --> 00:05:08,989
a monumental conversation so soon? And there's

75
00:05:09,489 --> 00:05:12,630
family dynamics. At play. I mean, that's a big conversation to have. Yeah.

76
00:05:13,130 --> 00:05:16,070
So what I'm actually intrigued about is, like, how'd you get to that conversation?

77
00:05:16,870 --> 00:05:19,830
So I can tell you exactly how it happened. He knows exactly.

78
00:05:20,150 --> 00:05:23,190
I can tell you exactly how it happened, because it was actually very early on.

79
00:05:23,550 --> 00:05:26,710
Okay. So we had. We were still dating. We had

80
00:05:27,210 --> 00:05:31,990
only been together, you know, maybe a month. And I am very big

81
00:05:32,490 --> 00:05:35,310
into open communication, and I. And I made that real clear when we first started

82
00:05:35,810 --> 00:05:38,430
dating. I was like, look, I know the mistakes that I made with my last

83
00:05:38,930 --> 00:05:42,190
relationship. The communication sucked. I said, I don't want to do that this time around.

84
00:05:42,830 --> 00:05:46,070
So, you know, I was very open with that. We talked about

85
00:05:46,570 --> 00:05:50,510
fantasies and whatnot. And then she told me that she was into girls and

86
00:05:50,950 --> 00:05:54,190
her past relationships or her last relationship before

87
00:05:54,690 --> 00:05:58,390
me, that they used to play with other people so that she could have

88
00:05:58,890 --> 00:06:02,470
her experiences with girls. And I was immediately turned on.

89
00:06:02,970 --> 00:06:05,190
I was like, oh. He was like, okay. I mean.

90
00:06:07,830 --> 00:06:11,590
This went from Mr. Rogers to HBO Real Sex

91
00:06:12,090 --> 00:06:15,150
like that, you know, it was just a snap of a finger. And so

92
00:06:15,650 --> 00:06:19,510
I was very intrigued. I had just come from a relationship

93
00:06:20,010 --> 00:06:23,630
where we had sex about as often as we had kids.

94
00:06:24,510 --> 00:06:27,910
So that. That. That tells you everything right there. And I have a very high

95
00:06:28,410 --> 00:06:31,270
sex drive. I've always had a very high sex drive. And so I was real

96
00:06:31,770 --> 00:06:34,430
big into, you know, when we first started dating, she. One of the things she

97
00:06:34,930 --> 00:06:36,830
asked me was, she's like, you're not one of those guys who likes to have

98
00:06:37,330 --> 00:06:39,270
sex all the time, are you? Because I was in that kind of sort of

99
00:06:39,770 --> 00:06:43,720
relationship also, but I was already good with not giving it up.

100
00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:46,520
I was like, fine, you don't want it. I'm cool. We're good.

101
00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:50,160
And I'm just like, yeah, I. I like sex often, and I hope

102
00:06:50,660 --> 00:06:54,360
that's not an issue. And so when we started dating, she realized that the sex

103
00:06:54,860 --> 00:06:56,840
was good. Then she was like, okay, all right, that's cool.

104
00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:03,320
Hey, 2025 is confident. I'm just

105
00:07:03,820 --> 00:07:07,000
gonna throw that out there. But, yeah, you know, it was it.

106
00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:11,070
So she initially told me about her experiences,

107
00:07:11,570 --> 00:07:15,230
and I was very intrigued. And I said, you know, I. I have always known

108
00:07:15,730 --> 00:07:19,790
what a swinger was because my father used

109
00:07:20,290 --> 00:07:24,390
to want to explore that. Like, he had a bunch of Penthouses,

110
00:07:24,890 --> 00:07:27,630
and he had a bunch. Like, I, I, I think I. I explained it on

111
00:07:28,130 --> 00:07:31,870
a past show once, but he had a bunch of reading material that alluded

112
00:07:32,370 --> 00:07:35,790
to him wanting to be a swinger. And I. Even my mother had

113
00:07:36,290 --> 00:07:38,790
admitted that that was something that he had asked, and she was like, no,

114
00:07:39,070 --> 00:07:42,350
I don't want to do that. But I believe he was a swinger in his

115
00:07:42,850 --> 00:07:46,630
past relationship before my mother. So I was

116
00:07:47,130 --> 00:07:50,830
already familiar with the term. I understood it, but I didn't think that that was

117
00:07:50,910 --> 00:07:54,350
a thing. My father was cheating on my mother.

118
00:07:54,850 --> 00:07:58,230
Kind of, you know, we all kind of knew it, even my mother. And I

119
00:07:58,730 --> 00:08:03,270
guess when we got together, I was like, I don't want to feel

120
00:08:03,770 --> 00:08:06,910
like we're cheating. And I said, if this is something that we can do in

121
00:08:07,410 --> 00:08:10,910
the open, you know, and we can be, you know, communicating about

122
00:08:11,410 --> 00:08:13,950
it and things like that, and we can. I think it can be okay,

123
00:08:14,190 --> 00:08:16,510
you know? Well, I have a question for you.

124
00:08:18,270 --> 00:08:21,390
So from the conversation you had, what about the boundaries? Like, at what point?

125
00:08:21,890 --> 00:08:24,670
What? Yeah. What are the boundaries? Just flat out. So things have changed. Things.

126
00:08:25,170 --> 00:08:28,750
Yeah. Communication's key. Right. Where to start in the beginning versus where it is

127
00:08:29,250 --> 00:08:32,550
now. Because you said you've been swingers for 14 years, essentially,

128
00:08:33,050 --> 00:08:36,080
at this point. Yeah. Yeah. That's a long. I don't know how many situations you've

129
00:08:36,580 --> 00:08:39,400
been in. Well, it's been gradual. Okay, we'll answer that. And then I have another

130
00:08:39,900 --> 00:08:43,280
question, because there's the fight, the family dynamic of it all. So we had to.

131
00:08:43,780 --> 00:08:47,840
It was really not. We were not immersed in it as we are now

132
00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:52,400
because our kids were young, and so that was really our priority,

133
00:08:52,900 --> 00:08:55,600
was raising our kids and raising them happy and healthy.

134
00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:59,240
And if we had some extra time to break away and we had

135
00:08:59,740 --> 00:09:03,350
a babysitter, we would go do our thing, you know? So in the beginning,

136
00:09:03,850 --> 00:09:07,310
it was kind of like lots. No, there were lots of rules. Oh, lots of

137
00:09:07,810 --> 00:09:11,710
boundaries. Lots of rules. There's different aspects of swinging.

138
00:09:12,210 --> 00:09:15,110
You can do same room. There's different,

139
00:09:15,350 --> 00:09:18,390
like, same roof, different rooms. There's.

140
00:09:18,870 --> 00:09:21,510
Yes. These are things I don't know. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

141
00:09:22,310 --> 00:09:26,310
There's a lot of different dynamics. Some couples only play together,

142
00:09:26,630 --> 00:09:30,310
so they won't do a full swap. So, like, they won't swap

143
00:09:30,870 --> 00:09:34,470
partners at all. Okay. They'll just, like, want to be in the same room.

144
00:09:34,790 --> 00:09:38,750
There are some that swap fully. So he'll get

145
00:09:39,250 --> 00:09:42,190
the wife, I'll get the husband, or I'll get the wife and the husband,

146
00:09:42,690 --> 00:09:45,750
Stuff like that. Yeah, it really depends on. On. On what if there's

147
00:09:46,250 --> 00:09:49,390
bisexual elements added to that. So.

148
00:09:49,890 --> 00:09:51,990
Yeah. How do you define between. Swinger. Yeah.

149
00:09:52,490 --> 00:09:55,890
Bisexual. Yeah. I'm a bisexual swinger.

150
00:09:56,390 --> 00:09:59,130
I can swing with. I can get with the guys, and I can also be

151
00:09:59,630 --> 00:10:02,850
with the girls. Adam is straight. I am straight. But I'm. I'm comfortable.

152
00:10:03,350 --> 00:10:06,930
You know, I'm not. Like, there are. There are some guys that are very scared

153
00:10:07,430 --> 00:10:10,330
to have guy on guy contact and that sort of thing. I've always been very

154
00:10:10,830 --> 00:10:13,490
secure in myself, so it's like I don't care. Yeah.

155
00:10:14,130 --> 00:10:17,570
And there's. There's a lot of bisexual men in. In the

156
00:10:18,070 --> 00:10:21,890
lifestyle, so there was a lot of. We're only gonna

157
00:10:22,390 --> 00:10:25,890
do it in the same room. Yeah. So she was very protective.

158
00:10:26,290 --> 00:10:29,810
Yeah, I was very protective, very jealous. She was very protective, very jealous.

159
00:10:30,310 --> 00:10:33,970
And I am the opposite. I'm not jealous. And so we started very little.

160
00:10:34,470 --> 00:10:38,210
Yeah. Okay, let's try a girl together. So we did. And let's try

161
00:10:38,710 --> 00:10:42,050
a guy. Okay. How did that feel? How did you like? Yeah. And that

162
00:10:42,550 --> 00:10:45,130
was really our first experience. So when we decided that we were gonna give this

163
00:10:45,630 --> 00:10:48,150
a try, I said, I have to see how I'm gonna feel about this because

164
00:10:48,650 --> 00:10:52,160
I. I've never done this before. She had done it prior. So we invited a

165
00:10:52,660 --> 00:10:56,320
guy over and to be with her, and I sat

166
00:10:56,820 --> 00:11:00,760
back and I watched. And then at some point I joined in and

167
00:11:01,260 --> 00:11:04,720
we, you know, finished off the night and I. So when it happened,

168
00:11:05,220 --> 00:11:08,440
it. It's something so different from what we're

169
00:11:08,940 --> 00:11:11,840
used to. That it's an uncomfortable feeling.

170
00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:15,690
And I liken it to, like, butterflies in the

171
00:11:16,190 --> 00:11:19,610
stomach. You know, it's that uncomfortable feeling. Like, it could be a bad uncomfortable

172
00:11:20,110 --> 00:11:23,250
or it could be a good uncomfortable. Just depends on how you're thinking about it.

173
00:11:23,750 --> 00:11:26,890
Right? So if I'm in a bad mood or I'm not feeling it, and I

174
00:11:27,390 --> 00:11:30,450
get that feeling, it's going to be a bad feeling. Like, it's not going to

175
00:11:30,950 --> 00:11:33,970
go well. If I get that feeling and I'm, like,

176
00:11:34,470 --> 00:11:38,530
into it, it's going to be a good experience. Right? And so that's kind

177
00:11:39,030 --> 00:11:41,680
of where I realized what that feels feeling was. And I was like, okay,

178
00:11:42,180 --> 00:11:45,920
I kind of liked it. Like, this was cool. Like, I was married

179
00:11:46,420 --> 00:11:49,360
to a porn star for one thing. And that was kind of what I got

180
00:11:49,860 --> 00:11:53,560
out of it initially was I got front row seats to

181
00:11:54,060 --> 00:11:57,120
watch my wife, who I think is like the sexiest woman in the world,

182
00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:02,000
do this, like, porn star, you know, show for

183
00:12:02,500 --> 00:12:05,440
me, you know, and I get to watch her with somebody else. And not to

184
00:12:05,940 --> 00:12:08,280
mention, you know, when you really love somebody, you want to. You want them to

185
00:12:08,780 --> 00:12:11,570
have a good experience, you want them to be satisfied,

186
00:12:11,970 --> 00:12:15,090
because I know she ain't gonna leave me. Yeah, you Know what I mean?

187
00:12:15,590 --> 00:12:18,130
I think that's what everyone thinks that. Are you.

188
00:12:18,850 --> 00:12:22,050
Are you happy? Are you doing this because you're unsatisfied?

189
00:12:22,550 --> 00:12:26,249
Are you happy in your marriage? Or is there something going on that

190
00:12:26,749 --> 00:12:30,130
you're just not completely satisfied? Because that's the first thing that people think.

191
00:12:30,930 --> 00:12:33,970
And it's not like that at all. It's just the.

192
00:12:34,450 --> 00:12:37,810
It's the sexual freedom of it. It's more so. But there's.

193
00:12:38,310 --> 00:12:40,690
There's so many other elements to it. And I'm gonna get to so many.

194
00:12:42,190 --> 00:12:45,790
When we started it, it was. There was a lot of rules. Yeah.

195
00:12:45,950 --> 00:12:49,630
And it was. She was very protective of me doing other things

196
00:12:50,130 --> 00:12:53,470
with other people. And, you know, it was a lot for her to process.

197
00:12:53,550 --> 00:12:56,350
It was less for me to process because I'm not a jealous person.

198
00:12:56,830 --> 00:12:59,950
And so it was more just like, oh, this is a new experience.

199
00:13:00,110 --> 00:13:03,630
Oh, this is a new experience. Okay. You know, this is. This is

200
00:13:04,130 --> 00:13:06,470
how I feel about that. Okay. I don't really care for this, so I know

201
00:13:06,970 --> 00:13:09,070
not to do this again. There was a lot of talks. There was.

202
00:13:10,110 --> 00:13:13,790
We don't argue. We just have really long discussions sometimes.

203
00:13:14,030 --> 00:13:17,790
Yeah, we process a lot of stuff. Process. I process things very

204
00:13:18,290 --> 00:13:21,230
differently than Adam does. It takes me longer.

205
00:13:21,730 --> 00:13:25,550
I'm a little passive aggressive sometimes. Yeah, things like that

206
00:13:26,270 --> 00:13:30,070
were where the communication really had the

207
00:13:30,570 --> 00:13:34,230
patience for him and the communication on my end. So. And we come from this,

208
00:13:34,730 --> 00:13:38,270
from different reasons. So I've always said that a lot. Oftentimes when people are

209
00:13:39,010 --> 00:13:42,530
in ethical non monogamy, it's.

210
00:13:42,770 --> 00:13:46,370
And not even just the sexual aspect, but there's like the polyamorous

211
00:13:46,870 --> 00:13:50,170
aspect where you can date others. And we did that for about five years as

212
00:13:50,670 --> 00:13:54,849
well. Most people that go into ethical non monogamy

213
00:13:55,349 --> 00:13:58,970
come from some sort of trauma, whatever it

214
00:13:59,470 --> 00:14:02,010
can be. I've noticed this. I've done a lot of trauma bonding with a lot

215
00:14:02,510 --> 00:14:05,730
of people in the lifestyle. And so for me, for example,

216
00:14:06,390 --> 00:14:09,990
the reason why I'm not jealous, the reason why I do

217
00:14:10,490 --> 00:14:14,470
so well with this dynamic is because of a couple of reasons.

218
00:14:14,970 --> 00:14:18,670
One, I grew up knowing that my father was cheating on my mother and seeing

219
00:14:19,170 --> 00:14:22,710
how that affected their relationship and all that sort of stuff,

220
00:14:23,350 --> 00:14:26,950
it was not a good situation growing up, seeing that. The other

221
00:14:27,450 --> 00:14:30,790
thing was I came out of an abusive household. So I

222
00:14:31,290 --> 00:14:34,470
didn't. I really had to work to try and get somebody to tell me that

223
00:14:34,970 --> 00:14:37,720
they loved me. Right. And so for years,

224
00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:42,600
including my ex wife, like, I just never felt genuine

225
00:14:43,100 --> 00:14:47,240
love from anybody before until I got with Priscilla and then when we got together,

226
00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:50,800
I realized just how loyal and loving she is to

227
00:14:51,300 --> 00:14:53,880
me and that sort of thing. And I've told her before, I said, it's almost

228
00:14:54,380 --> 00:14:58,480
like I'm sending you off to have fun with somebody else and

229
00:14:58,980 --> 00:15:02,140
there's a good chance that they may be able to satisfy you. And it's great

230
00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:06,060
and everything. You still come back to me. Like, that's, to me, like the

231
00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:10,140
ultimate love. Like you can experience whatever

232
00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:13,900
you want. And on a shallow level, it can be

233
00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:17,699
an incredible experience. And you're still going to come back to me because

234
00:15:18,199 --> 00:15:21,540
no matter what, there's no replicating this connection we have.

235
00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:25,300
You know what I mean? So it really kind of

236
00:15:26,100 --> 00:15:29,440
changes things on our romantic

237
00:15:29,940 --> 00:15:32,800
level that you wouldn't, you wouldn't think it would,

238
00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:36,720
but it's brought us closer together in that way. Okay,

239
00:15:37,220 --> 00:15:40,520
what do you have, do you think, in that dynamic, do you guys

240
00:15:41,020 --> 00:15:43,200
consider it performative or intimate? Or can it be both?

241
00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:46,960
It can be both. I,

242
00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:51,680
I'm probably the more performative of it because I know

243
00:15:52,180 --> 00:15:55,640
he's watching. Okay. And so I go the

244
00:15:56,140 --> 00:15:59,930
extra mile and kind of make eye contact with him

245
00:16:00,570 --> 00:16:04,890
and I know he's watching, so I'm going to do something even hotter.

246
00:16:05,290 --> 00:16:09,130
So, yeah, it, it comes, that comes into play for me. For him,

247
00:16:09,770 --> 00:16:12,970
it's. It's both for me. But what you say,

248
00:16:13,470 --> 00:16:17,170
focus more on the person. I do. So I enjoy. It's more intimate

249
00:16:17,670 --> 00:16:20,930
for me. I, I like that connection between me

250
00:16:21,430 --> 00:16:25,010
and the other person. So I can't have stranger sex, if that

251
00:16:25,510 --> 00:16:28,330
makes sense. I don't do one night stands. If I'm gonna hook up with somebody,

252
00:16:28,830 --> 00:16:31,210
it's somebody I've been talking to for a little while. Like we've hung out a

253
00:16:31,710 --> 00:16:34,890
couple times. I know that I like them. I'm very different. So that

254
00:16:35,390 --> 00:16:37,770
we can have sex and I can enjoy it. Yeah, he likes a connection.

255
00:16:38,270 --> 00:16:41,810
And I'm. I would be called a transactional person if

256
00:16:42,310 --> 00:16:45,130
I meet you and I like your vibe. Cool. All right. Do you want to

257
00:16:45,630 --> 00:16:49,090
go hook up? Yeah, I'm that. I'm that person and she's always been that before

258
00:16:49,590 --> 00:16:53,350
me. Yeah, it's just easier for me. I was actually

259
00:16:53,850 --> 00:16:56,710
only in this four women because I was a man hater.

260
00:16:57,670 --> 00:17:01,430
Now the men that we hang out with, the people, the community that we have,

261
00:17:01,910 --> 00:17:05,990
they're really good men. So I'm like, okay, they're sexy too.

262
00:17:06,710 --> 00:17:10,190
So I've opened up that part. But yeah,

263
00:17:10,690 --> 00:17:14,350
it's a kind of transactional on my end. All right.

264
00:17:14,850 --> 00:17:18,070
Yeah. So it's more intimate for me. It's more show for her.

265
00:17:18,430 --> 00:17:21,790
Now I do. We like. We like to do the

266
00:17:22,290 --> 00:17:26,230
show. Don't get me wrong. We are exhibitionists. So, like, we have

267
00:17:26,730 --> 00:17:30,510
a membership to a certain sex club down in San Antonio,

268
00:17:31,010 --> 00:17:34,510
and we drive. We're an hour away from it. That's performative. And we.

269
00:17:35,010 --> 00:17:38,550
And we. We go there. We go there. And from. I think they open at

270
00:17:39,050 --> 00:17:42,750
nine. We get there right when they open, and we're back there every 30 minutes

271
00:17:43,070 --> 00:17:46,430
in the beds in front of everybody, in the middle. In the middle.

272
00:17:46,930 --> 00:17:50,330
And. And everybody has kind of gotten used to us being back there and on

273
00:17:50,830 --> 00:17:54,610
a show. Like, it's. It's. People enjoy it, and it. It heats them up

274
00:17:55,110 --> 00:17:57,370
and they get all hot and bothered, and then they jump into a cubby and

275
00:17:57,870 --> 00:18:00,410
they start playing like it's a thing. It's.

276
00:18:00,970 --> 00:18:04,490
Does this ever get into, like, BDSM or anything like that?

277
00:18:04,650 --> 00:18:08,090
So there are. So not for us. But yes, there's different kinks.

278
00:18:08,590 --> 00:18:12,530
There are different kinks in. In the world. In this specific

279
00:18:13,030 --> 00:18:16,290
world. So there's different aspects of ethical non monogamy.

280
00:18:16,790 --> 00:18:20,870
It's kind of the umbrella term, but it can go in different ways.

281
00:18:21,370 --> 00:18:24,590
We celebrate more of the sexual freedom portion of it.

282
00:18:24,830 --> 00:18:28,550
There are people that go in who feel that you can date and

283
00:18:29,050 --> 00:18:32,830
have several relationships with several different people. And that's more like polyamory.

284
00:18:33,710 --> 00:18:37,510
And then there are people that explore the kink world of it

285
00:18:38,010 --> 00:18:40,750
and only the kink world of it. And that's like bdsm,

286
00:18:41,150 --> 00:18:44,110
you know, there's that same thing. Yeah, pretty much.

287
00:18:44,350 --> 00:18:47,990
There's. And there's different volumes of bdsm. Now, I'm not an expert

288
00:18:48,490 --> 00:18:51,870
on that. We plan on talking to people about that because we've never really

289
00:18:52,510 --> 00:18:56,350
been too involved in that. I don't like pain. Okay.

290
00:18:56,850 --> 00:18:59,670
Yeah. I'm not. I'm not a. And, you know, not really a pain giver or.

291
00:19:00,170 --> 00:19:03,230
And he doesn't like. So I'm a. I'm a pleaser. So I.

292
00:19:03,730 --> 00:19:08,190
I get my rocks off from pleasing the person that I'm with. And if

293
00:19:08,690 --> 00:19:12,070
I can do that, then that. That's my everything. But there are people out

294
00:19:12,570 --> 00:19:15,230
there that they enjoy inflicting pain, you know, that sort of thing.

295
00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:18,560
So when you guys go out as a couple and you meet somebody that maybe

296
00:19:19,060 --> 00:19:22,960
you're interested, like, how do you know? Because I. I think what's also intriguing

297
00:19:23,460 --> 00:19:25,760
me about this is, like, I'm coming to this as. As a gay man.

298
00:19:26,260 --> 00:19:29,600
Yeah. You know, from a gay Perspective. Sure. Yeah. And then, like, if you don't

299
00:19:30,100 --> 00:19:32,720
mind me sharing, like, here in Chicago, you know, there's. Yeah, there's sex clubs here,

300
00:19:33,220 --> 00:19:36,560
but they're for gay men. You know, there's the bath house. There's literally two clubs.

301
00:19:37,060 --> 00:19:38,920
They have a. You know, there's a sex room in the back, but there's a

302
00:19:39,420 --> 00:19:42,360
dungeon, you know, but it's only for gay men.

303
00:19:42,860 --> 00:19:45,680
This is what I was going to say. No, just very recently, probably after the

304
00:19:46,180 --> 00:19:49,560
pandemic. Mm. Now couples are coming in, really. And so

305
00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:52,720
for some of the gay community, it's been really hard for them to accept that

306
00:19:53,220 --> 00:19:56,320
now they go into their safe space that. Where they have sex. And now there's

307
00:19:56,820 --> 00:20:00,200
straight couples down there. And there. There's been. It's been interesting in the

308
00:20:00,700 --> 00:20:03,760
community to see that shift, because where you have a bar that was specifically geared

309
00:20:04,260 --> 00:20:07,960
toward, you know, gay men, and we're talking maybe an older generation like that,

310
00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:11,880
from the 1980s or maybe even earlier, you know, that had that specific

311
00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:16,000
thing. This was their space. There are some people that have felt like it's been

312
00:20:16,500 --> 00:20:20,240
kind of a takeover or infringing on their safe space, and it's like,

313
00:20:20,740 --> 00:20:23,520
why don't these couples have a space of their own? But the reality is there's

314
00:20:24,020 --> 00:20:27,600
not here in Chicago anyway. In my experience, there's not a lot of places

315
00:20:28,100 --> 00:20:30,840
for straight couples to go. Really? Yeah. Or. You know.

316
00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:34,680
Right. People are in. You know, in this arrangement. I'm. I'm sure they exist.

317
00:20:35,180 --> 00:20:38,440
I'm just not part of the community. But it's. Yeah. No, you guys are opening

318
00:20:38,940 --> 00:20:41,960
my eyes. I've seen it play out. I've just never spoken to anybody about it.

319
00:20:42,630 --> 00:20:45,510
Like, I was in a car one time with a friend, and my friend hit

320
00:20:46,010 --> 00:20:49,270
on this couple, and all of a sudden, we had this couple that's with us.

321
00:20:49,770 --> 00:20:52,990
A husband and wife. Yeah. And I was like, we're going where? And we were

322
00:20:53,490 --> 00:20:57,190
going to the normal gay club. We go to. Yeah. And I. I freaked

323
00:20:57,690 --> 00:21:00,430
out. I had to get out. They. They went on in and they did their

324
00:21:00,930 --> 00:21:02,710
thing. I heard about it after the fact, but I was like,

325
00:21:03,750 --> 00:21:06,710
can we have a conversation about that? Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

326
00:21:06,870 --> 00:21:11,140
Well. And, you know, it's. It's really weird for us initially,

327
00:21:11,220 --> 00:21:14,260
because I had a lot of anxiety. I had a lot of trepidation going into

328
00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:18,820
it. And it's funny that you mentioned the pandemic. A lot

329
00:21:18,900 --> 00:21:22,580
changed in the community when the pandemic

330
00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:26,580
hit. It seemed like there was this explosion of. Of swingers

331
00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:30,020
that came out it was. It was almost like it was. It was accepted.

332
00:21:30,500 --> 00:21:33,940
Everybody stayed home during the pandemic. They all got on social media.

333
00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:37,450
They got all on TikTok, and they found these. These different people.

334
00:21:37,930 --> 00:21:41,210
Yeah. And then they listen to these podcasts like these, and.

335
00:21:41,710 --> 00:21:44,850
And they go, huh, okay, we can give that a shot. And I.

336
00:21:45,350 --> 00:21:48,850
I feel like it really exploded after the pandemic. Like, there was

337
00:21:49,350 --> 00:21:52,650
just a large amount of people. But your. Your question was mainly the.

338
00:21:53,150 --> 00:21:55,210
How did it all, like, when we. How do we find. Yeah. How do you

339
00:21:55,710 --> 00:21:59,090
find somebody? How do you negotiate? How do you. Do you both have to,

340
00:21:59,590 --> 00:22:01,810
like, the person or one of you? So we. That was a part of our

341
00:22:02,310 --> 00:22:05,050
journey. That is. So that was a part of our journey that. That had changed

342
00:22:05,540 --> 00:22:08,820
Adam. And so we. The way we

343
00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:11,940
say things is because we're. We are okay with it. Some people do not,

344
00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:16,340
but Adam is. I allow Adam to explore whoever

345
00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:19,620
he wants. So if he finds a woman that he's interested in,

346
00:22:20,020 --> 00:22:23,260
we do like to play together. That's preferred.

347
00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:27,900
That's preferred. But some people don't. Some women only want

348
00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:32,140
to be with him. There's some women that only want to

349
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:36,580
be with me, couples that only want to be with me, or couples

350
00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:39,540
that are just looking for a guy and they're like, oh, you know, my wife

351
00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:43,020
likes you, Adam. So, like, do you want to join things like that?

352
00:22:43,580 --> 00:22:47,340
Our only, like, role there is. They have to be respectful of

353
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:51,780
me and of him, of our relationship. I don't

354
00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:56,540
necessarily have to like the person because I'm

355
00:22:56,620 --> 00:23:00,300
just that person, but I do have to at least be

356
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:04,220
respected and stuff like that. Like, you know, now that's changed throughout the years.

357
00:23:04,540 --> 00:23:07,780
That's something that she's at now. Yeah, it was, but that's taken

358
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:11,500
a while to get there. So that we've. We've gone from where when we first

359
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:15,499
started, I couldn't talk to anybody. She had to be the one who was talking

360
00:23:15,999 --> 00:23:19,620
to the couple to, you know, do that whole thing. And then

361
00:23:20,120 --> 00:23:23,740
eventually it was like, okay, we were doing group chats. Well, then eventually she

362
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:27,060
realized that me and other people wanted to talk one on one. She didn't care

363
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:30,950
for that. But then eventually she took. She took to okay to that because.

364
00:23:31,450 --> 00:23:35,030
We'Re open and communicating. So, like, yeah, we don't hide anything. If I feel like

365
00:23:35,350 --> 00:23:38,790
if I'm getting insecure or something, I can always, like, he'll share

366
00:23:39,290 --> 00:23:42,630
his phone and stuff like that. We don't hide it. So if I'm

367
00:23:43,130 --> 00:23:46,310
feeling that way, I'm like, oh, okay. All right, it's all good. We're fine.

368
00:23:46,810 --> 00:23:49,870
But yeah. And, you know, we. We talk through any issues that

369
00:23:50,370 --> 00:23:54,030
we have. So say she's feeling insecure about something or

370
00:23:54,530 --> 00:23:57,350
there's an issue with something that's coming up, or same thing with me.

371
00:23:58,010 --> 00:24:00,170
We kind of sit there and we talk about it and it's like, well,

372
00:24:00,670 --> 00:24:04,130
where's that coming from? What's the root of this? Did I

373
00:24:04,630 --> 00:24:08,370
not. Did I say something? Did I do. You know, everything comes all

374
00:24:08,870 --> 00:24:12,450
the way to one minute spot that you can pinpoint and go, well, this is

375
00:24:12,950 --> 00:24:15,930
where it came from. And if this had been taken care of, if I was

376
00:24:16,430 --> 00:24:19,890
reassured or whatever, then it would have. It would have been okay.

377
00:24:20,390 --> 00:24:23,530
But instead that I didn't get that. So now I'm here and I feel this

378
00:24:24,030 --> 00:24:28,220
way. Okay. There's a lot of reconnecting. Yeah. After playing yes.

379
00:24:28,300 --> 00:24:31,740
So after we're. We're doing our thing or whatever,

380
00:24:31,820 --> 00:24:35,340
you know, we. We gotta come home and we gotta decompress.

381
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:39,220
And yeah, the next couple of weeks or the next couple of days or whatever,

382
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:42,780
however we feel, we just do a lot of reconnecting. It's a lot of.

383
00:24:43,340 --> 00:24:46,980
But it's. It's definitely been a journey. And as far as what she accepts and

384
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:51,070
what she doesn't accept, I go off of what she's feeling. I go off

385
00:24:51,570 --> 00:24:55,550
of her pace, really, because I'm. I've always been more

386
00:24:56,050 --> 00:24:59,990
advanced pace, I guess, because I don't have jealousy issues. And so we've

387
00:25:00,490 --> 00:25:04,070
always kind of went by how progressive she was feeling and

388
00:25:04,570 --> 00:25:07,990
how. How onward she went. And so as time went on, she got more

389
00:25:08,490 --> 00:25:12,510
and more comfortable with things. Now, I will say that when the pandemic hit,

390
00:25:12,910 --> 00:25:16,760
we were still not as majorly

391
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:20,680
spread out through the community as we would have liked.

392
00:25:21,180 --> 00:25:24,160
We were kind of in the back end. We were kind of lurkers. We would

393
00:25:24,660 --> 00:25:27,720
connect with a couple every now and then. We were just not very involved.

394
00:25:28,120 --> 00:25:31,720
And that was because I was very. I dealt with a lot of anxiety.

395
00:25:31,879 --> 00:25:35,320
I was, you know, I didn't like being around crowds of people. I really didn't

396
00:25:35,820 --> 00:25:38,440
like leaving the house at all. If I knew I had to have a conversation

397
00:25:38,940 --> 00:25:42,200
with somebody, I'd find some reason to bail. Like, I just, oh,

398
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:46,090
excuse me, I'm not feeling good. I gotta go home, you know.

399
00:25:46,490 --> 00:25:49,770
So it was. I realized my anxiety since the pandemic,

400
00:25:49,850 --> 00:25:53,290
actually previous to that, but even more so was getting worse and

401
00:25:53,790 --> 00:25:57,090
worse, and I was really struggling to socialize with people

402
00:25:57,590 --> 00:26:00,810
and I was feeling bad about myself, you know, What I mean, So I told

403
00:26:01,310 --> 00:26:04,490
her one year. I said, hey, I need to. I need to

404
00:26:04,990 --> 00:26:06,930
fix this. I don't know what I need to do, but I need to fix

405
00:26:07,430 --> 00:26:10,410
this. The only way that I'm gonna fix this is to start forcing myself to

406
00:26:10,910 --> 00:26:13,380
talk to other people. And the only way that I'm going to do that is

407
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:17,260
to basically, you know, we're in these different Facebook

408
00:26:17,340 --> 00:26:21,380
groups for the local swinging communities that we're in, and we've

409
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:25,020
always just kind of been lurkers. We didn't really get involved with people.

410
00:26:25,580 --> 00:26:29,460
I said, you know, I'm just going to start posting. I'm going to start posting

411
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:34,220
my picture with different posts there and get people to kind

412
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,660
of associate this with me and get used to seeing these two.

413
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:41,880
And then when we go to events, people will see me, they'll want

414
00:26:42,380 --> 00:26:45,960
to talk to me, and I'll be forced to socialize,

415
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:49,880
because otherwise I'm just going to sit in the back and hold up a wall

416
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:53,680
and just. People watch and not talk to anybody. People watchers. We would

417
00:26:54,180 --> 00:26:57,320
just be cuddled up watching everybody and. Yeah, not.

418
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:00,680
And I'm shy sometimes, so it's like. Yeah, and so

419
00:27:01,180 --> 00:27:04,310
I don't want to talk to anybody. All of a sudden, she's like, people watching.

420
00:27:04,810 --> 00:27:07,870
And I'm getting bombarded by people who are like, I know who you are.

421
00:27:08,370 --> 00:27:10,910
I saw your post, you know, and they'd start talking to me. I know that

422
00:27:11,410 --> 00:27:15,190
even though I have anxiety about talking to people, if I'm forced to, I will

423
00:27:15,690 --> 00:27:17,830
talk to them. And I, you know, I won't be a dick and be like,

424
00:27:17,990 --> 00:27:21,190
get away. You know, I'll actually have a conversation with them.

425
00:27:21,670 --> 00:27:25,190
So it was forcing myself to be more social,

426
00:27:25,430 --> 00:27:29,070
and it. It actually worked. It. It helped me a

427
00:27:29,570 --> 00:27:33,700
lot over the past couple of years, and with

428
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:37,660
that, it's kind of pushed us more so into the forefront

429
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:41,780
of the community in our local area. And, you know,

430
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:45,380
and then one day we decided to start at the podcast and go from there.

431
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:49,740
So, you know, the journey has really. We've been immersed in the past

432
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:54,180
few years, but prior to that, it was, baby, not that

433
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:58,630
much. So she really had to kind of grow up in the past couple of

434
00:27:59,130 --> 00:28:02,750
years in this lifestyle as far as where she was at, how she was feeling

435
00:28:03,250 --> 00:28:06,910
and what she can really deal with. We went

436
00:28:07,410 --> 00:28:10,870
from being real tight with our boundaries and, you know, things were

437
00:28:11,370 --> 00:28:14,870
difficult to. Seemed like overnight we ended up

438
00:28:15,370 --> 00:28:19,030
becoming poly and we had. We met a couple that was. They were

439
00:28:19,530 --> 00:28:22,670
swingers in the lifestyle, and one day they were telling us,

440
00:28:23,170 --> 00:28:25,730
and they said, well, what? We're polyamorous? And I said, well, what is that?

441
00:28:25,890 --> 00:28:29,370
Like, what is that? And they explained it to me kind of roughly.

442
00:28:29,870 --> 00:28:32,290
And then of course, the nerd in me, I decided to do my research.

443
00:28:32,790 --> 00:28:35,810
And I was like, oh, crap. So this is a whole nother form

444
00:28:36,310 --> 00:28:40,930
of ethical non monogamy where it's strictly several relationships.

445
00:28:41,410 --> 00:28:44,810
And I mean, it's. It's. That's poly, meaning many,

446
00:28:45,310 --> 00:28:48,530
and then amory, meaning love. So many loves. Essentially you can.

447
00:28:48,690 --> 00:28:52,370
You can equally love several different people. And there's different forms

448
00:28:52,870 --> 00:28:56,300
of polyamory. There's kitchen table polyamory, there's solo polyamory,

449
00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:00,220
there's all. There's. And everything's got a label, right? Everything's got a label.

450
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:04,340
Everything's got a label. Yeah. And there's different offshoots of all these

451
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:08,300
different things. So we did that for five years. Now. Understand that

452
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:12,500
when we did that, we were. We had a couple of downsides.

453
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,780
Priscilla was just going through menopause. Oh. And she

454
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:21,200
had just moved to. By herself to the

455
00:29:21,700 --> 00:29:25,320
central Texas area to set us up while I was still at home with

456
00:29:25,820 --> 00:29:28,920
the kids back home, you know, and so we would only see each other on

457
00:29:29,420 --> 00:29:32,960
weekends. So that was probably one of the harder times in

458
00:29:33,460 --> 00:29:36,880
our lives was when we were dating others. And she wasn't really into it.

459
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:40,000
She didn't really care for it, but she was like, I'm gonna give it a

460
00:29:40,500 --> 00:29:43,840
shot. But she didn't like it. I was actually pretty good at it, of course.

461
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:47,640
Of course. I don't know what that means, but I was really

462
00:29:48,140 --> 00:29:51,230
good at it. Like, I, you know, I. I got to make some really interesting

463
00:29:51,730 --> 00:29:54,350
connections and I got to date around and I only dated women.

464
00:29:54,510 --> 00:29:57,470
Yeah. So that was interesting.

465
00:29:57,710 --> 00:30:01,950
I will never. I won't say I will never. I was

466
00:30:02,450 --> 00:30:04,990
not in the right mind to just date women.

467
00:30:05,630 --> 00:30:08,830
They were very complicated. We want a lot.

468
00:30:09,150 --> 00:30:12,590
Like, I feel like women want more attention than the men do,

469
00:30:13,150 --> 00:30:16,730
relationship wise. And that was not because I have

470
00:30:17,230 --> 00:30:21,490
kids and I have a husband and it didn't work. But what. What happens

471
00:30:21,990 --> 00:30:25,170
if you all meet somebody and you. Have you ever been in the position when

472
00:30:25,670 --> 00:30:28,770
you found yourself attracted to somebody more than you should have? So we actually.

473
00:30:28,930 --> 00:30:31,890
And what do you do in those circumstances? No, I mean,

474
00:30:32,130 --> 00:30:35,970
really. I mean, more than you should have is. Is kind of an interesting phrase

475
00:30:36,470 --> 00:30:39,650
there, because. What is that exactly? I mean, I mean, we have

476
00:30:40,150 --> 00:30:43,410
a girlfriend. We do have a girlfriend, actually. So we have a girlfriend together.

477
00:30:43,570 --> 00:30:47,090
Yeah. Which is something I. I Never thought I would see even. Cause we did

478
00:30:47,590 --> 00:30:51,490
polyamory for five years, and I hated it. She hated it, and she

479
00:30:51,990 --> 00:30:55,370
wanted out. And I said, okay, well, we'll stop. This is not a make or

480
00:30:55,870 --> 00:30:59,290
break for me. I can take it or leave it. And so we stopped and

481
00:30:59,790 --> 00:31:03,410
we just did the sexual aspect of it. And. And that was

482
00:31:03,730 --> 00:31:06,930
great. But for some reason, I guess she was like, you know,

483
00:31:07,430 --> 00:31:10,760
things just kind of feel right with this girl. And she checked. So we

484
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:14,120
had a show. And I was like, we're never doing poly. Like,

485
00:31:14,620 --> 00:31:17,360
it's just a bad thing for me. Like, I just don't. I don't even like

486
00:31:17,860 --> 00:31:21,760
talking about it. It just brings up such, I don't know, bad times

487
00:31:22,260 --> 00:31:25,480
in my brain. And so we met this girl. Well, we first, we were like.

488
00:31:25,980 --> 00:31:28,280
I mean, we could date somebody if they were busy all the time, if they

489
00:31:28,780 --> 00:31:32,240
had kids, if they understood. She made the whole list. Yeah, we met

490
00:31:32,740 --> 00:31:36,440
somebody like, a week later. This. This girl was just checking boxes.

491
00:31:36,630 --> 00:31:40,790
Yeah, she's super, super nice. She has.

492
00:31:41,190 --> 00:31:44,510
She's busy, she has family. She does her own thing. She's doesn't

493
00:31:45,010 --> 00:31:48,790
bombard us. We don't bombard her. And it just felt right.

494
00:31:49,270 --> 00:31:53,190
Yeah. Which is, to this day, still very weird

495
00:31:53,690 --> 00:31:57,230
for me because I don't like a lot of people. I'm very selective on

496
00:31:57,730 --> 00:32:00,310
who I spend my time with. Even though I'm transactional,

497
00:32:00,470 --> 00:32:04,220
I'm really selective. Like, you still have to meet certain criteria.

498
00:32:04,380 --> 00:32:08,060
And I'm going to share my husband, and I'm going to share my time and

499
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:12,180
his time. So. Yeah. So why do you not. Why do you not consider yourself

500
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:15,820
a throuple then? Because I don't like the word.

501
00:32:15,900 --> 00:32:19,260
It's a title, okay. It's the label thing. So. So understand.

502
00:32:19,340 --> 00:32:23,380
When we first got together, okay, when we first got together, I had

503
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:27,820
just left my ex. Like, I was literally a

504
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:31,860
week out, if that. Not even that. And we started seeing each

505
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:35,700
other now when everybody that I knew

506
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:39,340
knew that I had left so that I was out of this first

507
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:43,500
marriage. I'm done. And so there was a lot of friends that I had that

508
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:46,940
were women that would be like, hey, come on out to this bar.

509
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,700
We're all hanging out. Cool. You know? And so I had just started

510
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:54,980
seeing Priscilla, and it was still kind of under the.

511
00:32:55,060 --> 00:32:58,020
You know, under the carpet, you know, we weren't telling everybody.

512
00:32:58,890 --> 00:33:02,170
And so I remember I was at a bar, and I was there with some.

513
00:33:02,330 --> 00:33:05,850
Some girlfriends, some friends that were girls, and we

514
00:33:06,350 --> 00:33:09,730
were all drinking, and Priscilla walked in with One of her family

515
00:33:10,230 --> 00:33:14,170
members to. To meet with us. And I introduced her as my friend

516
00:33:14,650 --> 00:33:18,090
to all of these girls. I was like, oh, this is Priscilla. She's a

517
00:33:18,590 --> 00:33:22,010
friend of mine. And she sat there and she enjoyed the rest of the night.

518
00:33:22,570 --> 00:33:26,390
And then later on, I. Or maybe it was the next day, we talked

519
00:33:26,890 --> 00:33:30,230
about it. She was like, you know, you introduced me as your friend, and I'm

520
00:33:30,730 --> 00:33:32,790
not just your friend. And I was like,

521
00:33:33,750 --> 00:33:37,510
what? I know, but, you know, we're kind of. And so that was literally.

522
00:33:38,010 --> 00:33:41,070
It was our first argument, and we don't argue very much,

523
00:33:41,570 --> 00:33:44,710
but that was the first one that we ever really had. And I was like,

524
00:33:45,210 --> 00:33:48,030
you know, I was against giving the title. I didn't want to give out the

525
00:33:48,530 --> 00:33:52,640
title. Like, I just wasn't ready for that. And she

526
00:33:53,140 --> 00:33:55,000
was like, well, if you're not ready for that, then you're not ready for this

527
00:33:55,500 --> 00:33:59,200
and that sort of thing. And I was like, period. All right.

528
00:33:59,700 --> 00:34:02,760
God got you together. Yeah. And so, you know, I had to shit her,

529
00:34:03,260 --> 00:34:06,680
get off the pot, essentially, like, I had to make a decision. And so she

530
00:34:07,180 --> 00:34:09,240
was like, you know, if you're going to give me the title, if you want

531
00:34:09,740 --> 00:34:13,520
me to be that role. And I was like, okay, so titles are

532
00:34:14,020 --> 00:34:17,560
kind of sensitive. And so I had to be the first one to say we

533
00:34:18,060 --> 00:34:20,429
had a girlfriend. I was like, kind of. I wasn't gonna call it that.

534
00:34:20,929 --> 00:34:23,829
And so he didn't call it that, but we are. It is a throuple.

535
00:34:24,229 --> 00:34:27,029
I just. I don't know. That word just sometimes gives me.

536
00:34:27,429 --> 00:34:29,189
She's got PTSD from.

537
00:34:30,709 --> 00:34:33,789
From. It's so funny. She had to. I mean,

538
00:34:34,289 --> 00:34:37,629
it was the one time in our entire marriage that she ever felt like she

539
00:34:38,129 --> 00:34:40,669
was. She wasn't sure if we were gonna make it. Yeah. I was like,

540
00:34:41,169 --> 00:34:43,469
if he really wants to be in this kind of relationship, then I'm gonna let

541
00:34:43,969 --> 00:34:47,370
him be, but I'm not gonna be in it. Well, okay. I mean,

542
00:34:47,850 --> 00:34:50,970
you. We talked about how Polly is, like, many loves, right? Yeah. So I believe

543
00:34:51,470 --> 00:34:54,850
that there's no one person for. Yeah. There's no one forever

544
00:34:55,350 --> 00:34:57,330
and always, for one. I think you can fall in love with people for a

545
00:34:57,830 --> 00:35:00,330
lot of different reasons. So I think that goes back to my question, like,

546
00:35:00,570 --> 00:35:04,410
how do. Could you fall in love with somebody else outside of your marriage?

547
00:35:04,490 --> 00:35:07,850
What would happen if you did? And have you had anything close to that?

548
00:35:08,350 --> 00:35:10,970
To where you're like, put the brakes on it. Nope, we can't do this.

549
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:14,480
So we haven't. I wouldn't say we have had that.

550
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:19,240
I think the, the girl that we're dating is probably the, the closest that

551
00:35:19,740 --> 00:35:23,800
we have to that. And that's because she's. Priscilla's kind of reformed her thinking as

552
00:35:24,300 --> 00:35:27,920
of recently. But even when we were poly, we, we didn't really have that

553
00:35:28,420 --> 00:35:31,760
now. We always talked about it and this was scenarios that we've always

554
00:35:32,260 --> 00:35:35,480
brought up because I feel like the more we talk about it, when it happens,

555
00:35:35,980 --> 00:35:39,630
we're prepared, you know, and so I, I would always tell her,

556
00:35:40,130 --> 00:35:43,470
look, if. What if, you know, I'm talking to somebody

557
00:35:43,970 --> 00:35:47,110
and we connect and things get really strong and. And it's one of those

558
00:35:47,610 --> 00:35:51,630
things where it's like, okay, well, when that happens, we'll talk about it. Because for

559
00:35:52,130 --> 00:35:55,870
us, we've realized there isn't a single thing that we can't

560
00:35:56,370 --> 00:35:58,790
work out. Like, we can sit and we can talk about it, and it's like,

561
00:35:59,290 --> 00:36:02,150
you. Know, we can't stop each other's feelings. Right. Right. It's. It's one of those

562
00:36:02,650 --> 00:36:05,720
things. You feel something for somebody. It is what it is. And it's. It's scary.

563
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:09,320
It's scary for me because I'm like, man, I lost

564
00:36:09,820 --> 00:36:13,320
my first husband to a girl. And so it's like that trauma

565
00:36:13,820 --> 00:36:15,800
comes sometimes. Like, man, I don't want to. I don't want to lose him,

566
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:19,400
but I'm now, now probably last two, three years,

567
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:23,000
realize he's not going anywhere. I'm not going.

568
00:36:23,500 --> 00:36:25,240
I love where I'm at. You know what I mean? And that's what I had

569
00:36:25,740 --> 00:36:28,840
to. I had to really explain to her was like, hey, you know what we

570
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:31,960
have with each other, I can't have this with anybody else.

571
00:36:32,460 --> 00:36:36,300
Like, there are certain intimacies that I share with her and

572
00:36:37,100 --> 00:36:40,300
I feel 100% vulnerable, vulnerable with her.

573
00:36:40,380 --> 00:36:44,060
And I can't feel like that with everybody right now.

574
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:47,900
We can't. Right. Like, that's just our thing. We just maybe we don't allow each

575
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:52,140
other to mentally, but you never know. It's a growing

576
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:56,580
process. So, like, this, this one lady that

577
00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:01,190
we are dating, she's pretty much on the same kind of mindset.

578
00:37:01,590 --> 00:37:05,350
You know, she knows what she wants. She still dates other people. She has

579
00:37:05,850 --> 00:37:09,750
kids. She has kids. She's busy. She's, you know, so it's.

580
00:37:09,830 --> 00:37:13,470
I don't know. I don't know. Like, we don't know where it's going. We like

581
00:37:13,970 --> 00:37:17,350
it. I like it. I'm very comfortable with her. I have no reservations.

582
00:37:18,390 --> 00:37:21,550
I still kind of. I'm like, is there going to be Like

583
00:37:22,050 --> 00:37:25,280
a red flag. I communicate a lot and if I,

584
00:37:25,780 --> 00:37:29,200
she's very intuitive. Yeah. And I feel, if I feel a certain way, I will

585
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:33,080
tell you, like how I feel and let's discuss it

586
00:37:33,580 --> 00:37:36,800
and let's talk about. And this is with anybody. Like, I don't know why I'm

587
00:37:37,300 --> 00:37:40,600
feeling this, but this is what brought this up. And let's talk. So. Yeah,

588
00:37:41,100 --> 00:37:44,800
yeah, yeah. Very interesting. Right? It's very interesting.

589
00:37:45,300 --> 00:37:48,440
I'm. Yeah. Oh, wow. And, and this is really why I wanted. Because we were

590
00:37:48,940 --> 00:37:50,800
going to have this conversation one way or another and I was like, you know

591
00:37:51,300 --> 00:37:54,720
what, what better way to do it than just hit record? Because I knew you

592
00:37:55,220 --> 00:37:58,400
were going to have a lot of questions. You and I haven't talked for,

593
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:02,640
you know, I mean, we haven't talked in person in, in a couple of decades.

594
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:06,360
So it's, it's. And we were in,

595
00:38:06,860 --> 00:38:09,720
in my opinion, closest in high school.

596
00:38:10,220 --> 00:38:13,280
Like we spent the night at each other's house and, and, and we spent a

597
00:38:13,780 --> 00:38:17,360
lot of time together. My first job was at the same place that your first

598
00:38:17,860 --> 00:38:21,570
job was at. Like, you got me into that place. You know, a lot

599
00:38:22,070 --> 00:38:25,650
of my high school childhood years were around

600
00:38:26,150 --> 00:38:28,970
you. And so I was like, you know, this is kind of fitting because if

601
00:38:29,470 --> 00:38:32,890
anybody, you know, you are a gay

602
00:38:33,390 --> 00:38:36,930
man and your, your lifestyle,

603
00:38:37,430 --> 00:38:40,690
specifically people automatically assume

604
00:38:41,190 --> 00:38:45,250
intersects with our lifestyle and sometimes it can for certain

605
00:38:45,750 --> 00:38:48,730
people. But what I, what I realized is,

606
00:38:49,230 --> 00:38:51,690
is that they don't, they don't go hand in hand.

607
00:38:52,650 --> 00:38:56,730
They are not. So I, I take it you are familiar with swinging,

608
00:38:57,230 --> 00:39:00,490
with, with the ethical. When was the first time that you would say that you've,

609
00:39:00,730 --> 00:39:04,690
you kind of had your, your closest experience to

610
00:39:05,190 --> 00:39:09,050
that or found seen it, not personally experienced it, but like seen it

611
00:39:09,550 --> 00:39:12,770
in front of you or had somebody talk about that sort of thing in front

612
00:39:13,270 --> 00:39:17,310
of you. Ethical monogamy. Ethical non monogamy or really?

613
00:39:17,810 --> 00:39:21,070
Or like swinging or anything like that. I've heard swinging, but I've never, I've never

614
00:39:21,570 --> 00:39:24,230
sat down with a couple that's done. It's really, I've seen it play out.

615
00:39:24,730 --> 00:39:28,110
Yeah. I've, you know, there was that show on tv, Swing. Yeah. Right. Swaps.

616
00:39:28,670 --> 00:39:32,950
Swap, whatever. Yeah. That's the only exposure I probably never

617
00:39:33,450 --> 00:39:37,110
had. So this is very much a first conversation. And so what,

618
00:39:37,610 --> 00:39:40,630
what I, what I'm fascinated about, and this is the thing that always got to

619
00:39:41,130 --> 00:39:44,660
me was there are a lot of preconceived notions from people who

620
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:49,620
don't know really anything about it. And a lot of the Judgment

621
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:54,060
that we experience from society as a whole comes from

622
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:58,300
people that just don't really know anything about it. And so, you know, we.

623
00:39:58,700 --> 00:40:01,860
That's one of the reasons why we talk on this podcast is kind of just

624
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:05,580
to educate people that, you know, it's. It's an actual community,

625
00:40:05,740 --> 00:40:09,170
like, of. Of. Of legit people. People think it's a bunch of leisure.

626
00:40:09,670 --> 00:40:13,450
Suit Larry's walking around hitting on people. And we were talking on the way

627
00:40:13,950 --> 00:40:16,290
over here. We had a good conversation, and I told her, I said, you know,

628
00:40:16,790 --> 00:40:20,410
it's funny because if you were to take me and

629
00:40:20,910 --> 00:40:24,690
stick me in a small room with a bunch of women who are

630
00:40:25,190 --> 00:40:28,050
not swingers, They're. They're just monogamous.

631
00:40:28,690 --> 00:40:31,810
And I stand there and I just have conversation

632
00:40:32,310 --> 00:40:36,210
with everybody. Just regular conversation. Not flirty, not anything like that, just regular conversation.

633
00:40:36,670 --> 00:40:39,870
And I do talk about that, that we're swingers.

634
00:40:40,510 --> 00:40:44,430
You're gonna have that room clear out away from me.

635
00:40:44,510 --> 00:40:48,270
The women will get away from me because they. They'll automatically assume I'm gonna

636
00:40:48,770 --> 00:40:51,190
hit on them or I'm gonna try and bed them in some way. It's not

637
00:40:51,690 --> 00:40:54,990
like that, but that's what they automatically assume because of the label.

638
00:40:55,390 --> 00:40:58,550
Now, if you take that same room and you fill it with a bunch of

639
00:40:59,050 --> 00:41:03,100
men who are, you know, they don't. They don't do

640
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:05,980
that. They're monogamous, and maybe even some of them are married, and you put them

641
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:09,500
all in that room and you take her and you. You put Chris in that

642
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:13,540
room and she has her regular, you know, just a regular conversation,

643
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:16,780
and she does the same thing and says that she's a swinger, you're gonna have

644
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:20,020
almost every one of those men trying to hit on her, trying to better.

645
00:41:20,500 --> 00:41:24,420
And. And that's because that word

646
00:41:24,500 --> 00:41:28,140
carries such weight for women. If a woman walks to a guy and

647
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:32,610
says, oh, yeah, we. We sleep with other people. I'm a swinger, then they're automatically

648
00:41:33,110 --> 00:41:36,570
going to assume, oh, she's easy. I can. I can hit it tonight if I

649
00:41:37,070 --> 00:41:39,690
wanted to. You know what I mean? Transactional. And that's not,

650
00:41:40,570 --> 00:41:44,170
you know, that's not always the case, you know, but it's an assumption that's made.

651
00:41:44,670 --> 00:41:48,330
Yeah, a lot of women will assume when we. Because we talk

652
00:41:48,830 --> 00:41:50,890
openly about it sometimes when we're asked.

653
00:41:51,690 --> 00:41:54,970
And they'll assume that I'm friendly,

654
00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:58,760
you know, and I treat everybody the same way, but maybe they'll assume that there's

655
00:41:59,260 --> 00:42:02,800
more to that friendly way that I speak, you know,

656
00:42:03,300 --> 00:42:06,640
and it's like I make eye contact when I talk to people, and that's

657
00:42:07,140 --> 00:42:11,479
everybody. Like, I talk to everybody the same way. But if

658
00:42:11,979 --> 00:42:15,280
they find out that this is the lifestyle I'm in and they don't know anything

659
00:42:15,780 --> 00:42:18,800
about it, they assume and it's like, oh, shit.

660
00:42:19,300 --> 00:42:21,840
Okay. Yeah. No, when you first. When you first said it, like, I think one

661
00:42:22,340 --> 00:42:24,920
other thought that came to mind, I was like, oh, my God, is Adam gay?

662
00:42:25,420 --> 00:42:28,200
Is he bi? Like, yeah. And so I've gotten that a lot. Yeah. Like,

663
00:42:28,700 --> 00:42:32,000
I had. That's what really kind of got me. I just didn't want to offend

664
00:42:32,500 --> 00:42:35,000
you. No, no, no. And. And that wouldn't offend me. I. I get that a

665
00:42:35,500 --> 00:42:39,240
lot. And. And a lot of people, we refer to you guys

666
00:42:39,740 --> 00:42:43,280
as. As vanillas. Oh, yeah. I'd like to say gold star

667
00:42:43,780 --> 00:42:45,200
gay. There you go.

668
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:51,360
I like that better. But, you know, in the. In the vanilla world,

669
00:42:51,870 --> 00:42:55,790
the monogamous world, you know, these preconceived

670
00:42:56,290 --> 00:42:59,670
notions have come up. When we've talked to, you know, we've talked

671
00:43:00,170 --> 00:43:03,790
to men, men have been interested. They would love for him to be gay.

672
00:43:04,270 --> 00:43:07,270
So I've. I. I get hit on by men quite a bit. Okay.

673
00:43:07,770 --> 00:43:11,150
And I've. The very first time. And you. You're in this story.

674
00:43:11,650 --> 00:43:14,510
I did not hit on you. No, no, no, no, I'm not. Not you.

675
00:43:14,910 --> 00:43:18,320
No, but you're in this story. So. You know, I used to wear a lot

676
00:43:18,820 --> 00:43:21,880
of jewelry back in high school, and I don't know if you remember,

677
00:43:22,380 --> 00:43:25,000
but we went to. We went to this. I was. I was. I was a

678
00:43:25,500 --> 00:43:28,880
little bougie. I had a. I had a couple silver rings and things like

679
00:43:29,380 --> 00:43:33,080
that. Anyways, anyways, so we. We,

680
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:36,960
as in me and Jeremy, we went to this store in the

681
00:43:37,460 --> 00:43:41,320
mall, and it was a jewelry store, kind of a small jewelry

682
00:43:41,820 --> 00:43:45,480
store. And we walked in, and there was a guy behind

683
00:43:45,980 --> 00:43:49,080
the counter, and he was blatantly flirting with me.

684
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:53,480
Blatantly flirting with me. Now, you were not out at that time.

685
00:43:53,720 --> 00:43:56,680
You know, we were just friends. And I had always known, but you weren't.

686
00:43:57,180 --> 00:44:00,480
You had never come out. And we were at this.

687
00:44:00,980 --> 00:44:04,680
This store, and this guy was just flirting. And I didn't realize that he

688
00:44:05,180 --> 00:44:08,000
was flirting. I just thought he was real friendly. And he was like, you know,

689
00:44:08,500 --> 00:44:11,120
I can give you a. I can clean your rings for free and this and

690
00:44:11,620 --> 00:44:13,720
that. And I was like, oh, yeah, sure, here. You know, I took him off

691
00:44:14,250 --> 00:44:16,250
and I handed it to him, and he took him to the back, and he

692
00:44:16,750 --> 00:44:19,890
starts. So then he comes back Out. And he's talking to me and he's

693
00:44:20,390 --> 00:44:23,610
like, yeah, so do you, do you go out? Like, where, where's your spot?

694
00:44:24,110 --> 00:44:27,690
And this and that. And I, I'm thinking in my head, I mean, I'm high

695
00:44:28,190 --> 00:44:31,090
school. I'm like, I don't have a spot. You know what I mean? But you

696
00:44:31,590 --> 00:44:35,450
didn't say anything. You just stood behind me and you watched this whole interaction.

697
00:44:35,850 --> 00:44:39,370
So then, anyways, we finish up, he gives me my rings, and I was

698
00:44:39,870 --> 00:44:43,200
like, well, it's nice to meet you. And we left. And literally as soon

699
00:44:43,700 --> 00:44:47,520
as we walked out, you came up to me and you were like, that guy

700
00:44:48,020 --> 00:44:50,920
was hitting on you. And I said,

701
00:44:51,240 --> 00:44:54,520
what? And you said, that guy

702
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:57,880
wanted you, like that guy was hitting on you bad.

703
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:01,400
And I said, no, he wasn't. And you were like, are you,

704
00:45:01,900 --> 00:45:05,560
you're with me, right? I can remember this conversation like it was yesterday.

705
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:08,150
And you were like, you're, you're, you're joking, right? Like,

706
00:45:08,710 --> 00:45:12,470
I, I, I could see it very clearly. And I was like,

707
00:45:13,110 --> 00:45:15,990
no, really? And you're like, yes, that guy was hitting him.

708
00:45:16,490 --> 00:45:19,990
Oh, so he's been like that forever. He's, I'm very clueless. Very clueless.

709
00:45:20,070 --> 00:45:22,470
Well, I was gonna say you were talking about high school and like when you

710
00:45:22,970 --> 00:45:26,630
were young. And it's like, what also shocked me about all this. It's like I,

711
00:45:26,710 --> 00:45:29,550
I knew you through middle school and high school having a really hard time.

712
00:45:30,050 --> 00:45:33,830
Yeah. Even socially, you know, your self esteem was not very

713
00:45:34,330 --> 00:45:37,310
high. You had a hard time making friends. I saw you struggle trying to get

714
00:45:37,810 --> 00:45:41,110
girlfriends. Yeah. And like, that's how I remember

715
00:45:41,610 --> 00:45:44,070
you. And it was to be your friend and to be as close as I

716
00:45:44,570 --> 00:45:47,790
was to you then was always hard

717
00:45:48,290 --> 00:45:51,390
just to see you struggle that way. So now to see you older and married

718
00:45:51,890 --> 00:45:55,510
and with children and to overcome all that, because trauma is trauma and

719
00:45:55,750 --> 00:45:59,030
kids can be cruel and people can be cruel. And so I,

720
00:45:59,530 --> 00:46:02,670
I, I find it very inspiring that you've had this journey and you are where

721
00:46:03,170 --> 00:46:05,730
you are now and that you have this light about you that you have.

722
00:46:05,810 --> 00:46:08,370
I mean, we all have our journeys and we all grow and mature.

723
00:46:08,450 --> 00:46:11,810
Yeah. But it really is remarkable. You know, it's been,

724
00:46:12,310 --> 00:46:14,730
it's been fun. And you know, I can tell you this, and this was part

725
00:46:15,230 --> 00:46:18,850
of what I was going to tell you earlier, which part

726
00:46:19,350 --> 00:46:23,210
of what I get out of this? Because some people say, well, what do

727
00:46:23,710 --> 00:46:27,450
you get out of this? And, and this is something that the conversations

728
00:46:27,950 --> 00:46:31,210
that Pris and I will have or had often to get her to

729
00:46:31,710 --> 00:46:35,290
understand what I get out of this. I have to have a

730
00:46:35,790 --> 00:46:39,370
connection with somebody. If I'm gonna sleep with them, I have to know

731
00:46:39,870 --> 00:46:43,650
that they want me. And it sometimes sounds bad, but I have to

732
00:46:44,150 --> 00:46:47,330
feel and know that they want me. That's the turn on. That's the kink,

733
00:46:47,830 --> 00:46:51,450
you know? And what I realized is a lot of it roots back to when

734
00:46:51,950 --> 00:46:56,170
I was in high school. You know, I struggled, you know, to have

735
00:46:56,670 --> 00:47:00,100
relationships with. With girls. There was a lot of. Of girls that I was interested

736
00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:04,460
in that I just couldn't get the time of day to. I was unsuccessful and

737
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:08,060
dating at all. Like, just in high school, in middle school,

738
00:47:08,140 --> 00:47:11,860
in college. Like, I just could not hit a ball if

739
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:16,380
it was baseball. Like, I. I couldn't do it. You know, I was constantly being

740
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:19,500
told, oh, well, I think of you as the little brother, you know, Like,

741
00:47:19,900 --> 00:47:23,220
I just really felt less

742
00:47:23,720 --> 00:47:27,100
than, you know, I was always trying to achieve what I saw my friends

743
00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:31,400
have, and I just couldn't get. Get it. And so throughout

744
00:47:31,900 --> 00:47:35,280
the years, I felt like I struggled. I married my first

745
00:47:35,780 --> 00:47:39,120
wife because she's the only person that

746
00:47:39,620 --> 00:47:43,480
really seemed to give me the solid attention that I wanted. Unfortunately, it changed

747
00:47:43,980 --> 00:47:47,480
very quickly, and I didn't get that anymore. And so when I

748
00:47:47,980 --> 00:47:51,600
left her and then Pris and I started dating, I was always waiting

749
00:47:52,100 --> 00:47:55,480
for the other shoe to drop, and it never did. And we had such a

750
00:47:55,980 --> 00:47:59,800
great relationship. And so what I get from

751
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:04,200
other women in the lifestyle, I totally get from her.

752
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:08,120
You know, it's not like I'm lacking anything from her. I get the want,

753
00:48:08,620 --> 00:48:12,560
I get the attention. She's my best friend. And so we're around each other

754
00:48:13,060 --> 00:48:16,960
all the time, and we have a connection that I could

755
00:48:17,460 --> 00:48:21,120
never have with anybody else. And that's because she's there on so

756
00:48:21,620 --> 00:48:24,880
many different levels. She's hitting it on so many different levels. Um,

757
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:28,400
and when we got together, it just seemed

758
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:32,240
like everything worked out. And when

759
00:48:32,740 --> 00:48:36,080
we started seeing other people, I remember thinking,

760
00:48:36,580 --> 00:48:40,360
this is kind of fun. And I've always associated this

761
00:48:40,860 --> 00:48:44,800
as a kind of a fun situation. And I feel like I'm enjoying.

762
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:48,080
I. I mean, now I'm. I mean, I'm cleaning up, man.

763
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:55,240
I'm cleaning up. I mean, I'm up in the floor with man.

764
00:48:57,080 --> 00:49:00,480
Bring him back. Remember? I mean, like,

765
00:49:00,980 --> 00:49:05,400
you said it, you saw the difference, right? So I remember. I remember young Adam.

766
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:07,240
I'm just kidding, by the way.

767
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:11,960
I. You got to let him have a. Big head,

768
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:16,800
you know, I did. You know, I will say that I I have had moments

769
00:49:17,300 --> 00:49:20,720
where I've sat back even as. Even recently. Yeah. I've sat back

770
00:49:21,220 --> 00:49:23,720
and I've said, it is really weird for me.

771
00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:27,560
I'm 42 years old, and it's weird for me to sit back and

772
00:49:28,060 --> 00:49:31,760
go, wow, the pretty girl that I was attracted

773
00:49:32,260 --> 00:49:35,240
to and I expressed that interest into are there.

774
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:38,760
They're finding me attractive and they're interested in me too.

775
00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:42,440
What? You know, I've had a similar experience,

776
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:45,840
like just getting older. Yeah. And I get more attention

777
00:49:46,340 --> 00:49:49,400
now than I ever did when I was younger. Well, you're very handsome. You're very

778
00:49:49,900 --> 00:49:52,960
good. You know, I've always had. Thank you. So a

779
00:49:53,460 --> 00:49:56,840
lot of women, they liked you. Like, a lot of women were attracted to you.

780
00:49:57,340 --> 00:50:00,120
Oh, see, I was completely oblivious. I did not see any of that. When did

781
00:50:00,620 --> 00:50:03,360
you come out? I came out when I was 16, but even. And that was

782
00:50:03,860 --> 00:50:06,800
in high school. But that was just to my parents and maybe to one person,

783
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:09,840
I think. Okay, that was my best girlfriend at the time. But I.

784
00:50:10,340 --> 00:50:12,640
I didn't. I wasn't going around saying I had a couple girlfriends in high school.

785
00:50:13,140 --> 00:50:16,310
We didn't do anything. Yeah. You know, I remember that one experience of the

786
00:50:16,810 --> 00:50:20,590
girl in high school I had one was a lesbian. There you go. Yeah,

787
00:50:21,090 --> 00:50:24,390
obvious, you know, so. Yeah, but that was that. I mean, I just.

788
00:50:24,890 --> 00:50:27,750
I went through the whole thing. I was bi thing, but really, not until I

789
00:50:28,250 --> 00:50:31,270
left high high school, moved out, did I just completely embrace it. But I mean,

790
00:50:31,770 --> 00:50:33,670
shoot, I was gay. Yeah. There was no way. There was no way around.

791
00:50:34,170 --> 00:50:37,150
There was no way around it. Yeah, there's no. Yeah. Yeah. It's a.

792
00:50:37,390 --> 00:50:40,790
But no, I mean, I'm sure that you. Especially the getting older,

793
00:50:41,290 --> 00:50:45,000
it's like you get comfortable in your own skin. And I think people see that

794
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:48,280
because you're getting older. Right. And it kind of like brings out this, like,

795
00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:52,120
sexiness vibe or something. I think it's. Yeah, I think it's

796
00:50:52,620 --> 00:50:55,840
about confidence and about just accept. Like, even. Even you guys like the way you

797
00:50:56,340 --> 00:50:59,560
have conversations so easily with people, how you guys even work as a dynamic.

798
00:51:00,060 --> 00:51:03,680
I'm sure that's very alluring. So it's also kind of looking at you guys as.

799
00:51:04,180 --> 00:51:07,280
It's almost like a power couple in your. We get told a lot that we're.

800
00:51:07,780 --> 00:51:11,670
Intimidated, I feel like. But so whenever we're there, like saying,

801
00:51:12,170 --> 00:51:15,030
like, having sex with the clubs. Right. And we do it in the middle and

802
00:51:15,530 --> 00:51:19,230
we. And you do that for the exhibitionists and the voyeurism.

803
00:51:19,730 --> 00:51:22,190
But you also. It's an area where people can actually come up to you and

804
00:51:22,690 --> 00:51:26,510
be like, can I join? Which is easy for us, because sometimes

805
00:51:27,010 --> 00:51:29,670
I can be a little shy. Sometimes he can be a little shy.

806
00:51:30,390 --> 00:51:34,470
So that's the fun part. But it's also, when you're

807
00:51:34,970 --> 00:51:38,370
there, you're like, I'm hoping somebody comes up to us, because I don't want

808
00:51:38,870 --> 00:51:42,050
to go up to anybody, you know, and people will stop and be like,

809
00:51:42,550 --> 00:51:46,250
you're so intimidating. Like, it's. That. That's intimidating. We've been told that a lot

810
00:51:46,570 --> 00:51:49,930
individually and as a couple. Sex a thousand times. Like,

811
00:51:50,650 --> 00:51:53,530
and I just blows my mind. I'm, like, intimidating. Like,

812
00:51:54,030 --> 00:51:57,370
I can't. I can't see that at all. Like, I think some people, it goes

813
00:51:57,870 --> 00:52:00,690
back to being shy. Yeah. I think when somebody is so carefree and so willing

814
00:52:01,190 --> 00:52:04,410
to express themselves and somebody may want it internally, they just don't know

815
00:52:04,910 --> 00:52:06,850
how to get to that. So we do get that. I think it's an instant

816
00:52:07,350 --> 00:52:10,870
goes back and insecurity. Do you all ever find yourself being teachers?

817
00:52:11,430 --> 00:52:14,910
Yeah. So that's really why we started the podcast. Before that,

818
00:52:15,410 --> 00:52:18,670
I was considered more of a mentor to a lot

819
00:52:19,170 --> 00:52:21,350
of newer people that would come in. Is that a thing?

820
00:52:21,910 --> 00:52:25,270
So I. I guess it is. I mean, we. We didn't really

821
00:52:25,770 --> 00:52:28,510
know it was a thing. We just. We just knew that there was a lot

822
00:52:29,010 --> 00:52:32,710
of, like. Right. No, no, no, no. This is not a cult.

823
00:52:33,910 --> 00:52:37,270
No, no, no, no, no. So it's. It's not like we

824
00:52:37,770 --> 00:52:41,030
would. We wouldn't seek out people, but we would. Whenever, you know,

825
00:52:41,530 --> 00:52:44,670
you go on these apps and couples looking for couples and that sort of thing,

826
00:52:44,910 --> 00:52:48,710
we would always find that new couples would gravitate

827
00:52:49,210 --> 00:52:52,630
towards us. And as we would talk, I was always just very open

828
00:52:53,130 --> 00:52:57,310
with our experiences and what we've. Mistakes we've made

829
00:52:57,810 --> 00:53:00,510
and things that we realized how to get where we were at.

830
00:53:01,220 --> 00:53:04,620
And I do that just to let them know that, hey,

831
00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:08,140
you know, we had to figure this out on our own. So if you

832
00:53:08,640 --> 00:53:11,780
guys can avoid some of the shit that we dealt with, here you go.

833
00:53:12,100 --> 00:53:15,620
You can. You can have that gratis. Because people will

834
00:53:15,700 --> 00:53:19,260
go into this lifestyle. Yeah. With bad intentions.

835
00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:23,980
Like, yeah, man, he cheated on me. And so we've

836
00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:26,820
heard him. Yeah, we're gonna go into this and we're gonna try it out,

837
00:53:27,320 --> 00:53:30,560
because maybe that's what he wants. That's. You know, there's people that get into it

838
00:53:31,060 --> 00:53:33,520
with good intentions, and there's people that get into it with bad intentions. We have

839
00:53:34,020 --> 00:53:37,840
friends. We have a Friend who. They went into this lifestyle,

840
00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:41,760
which you would think would be the most freeing thing for a

841
00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:45,280
man or for a woman. Right. Who wants to kind of explore

842
00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:49,280
another person and ended up

843
00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:52,720
they're getting a divorce. Yeah, a few of them are getting. And this one's

844
00:53:53,220 --> 00:53:56,630
getting a divorce because he cheated on a wife. Why did.

845
00:53:56,710 --> 00:54:00,230
And it's a thing. I mean, why did you cheat? You had the openness to

846
00:54:00,730 --> 00:54:04,230
have sex with anybody you wanted to. So people get into it for the wrong

847
00:54:04,730 --> 00:54:08,390
reasons. They do so with the wrong intentions. And a lot of new couples,

848
00:54:09,030 --> 00:54:12,910
I would just try and give them our experiences in hopes

849
00:54:13,410 --> 00:54:17,510
that they wouldn't, they would know what rat red flags to look for and

850
00:54:18,010 --> 00:54:21,310
go, yeah, we should probably stay away from that. And they can better

851
00:54:21,810 --> 00:54:25,610
have better good experiences because if I let these people have bad experiences

852
00:54:26,110 --> 00:54:29,650
with others, then they're gonna walk away from it. They're gonna add

853
00:54:29,810 --> 00:54:33,410
to the vanilla world of talking

854
00:54:33,490 --> 00:54:37,290
about those crazy sex crazed swingers and how

855
00:54:37,790 --> 00:54:40,850
they ruin people's relationships and like that. It's like, you know, it's,

856
00:54:41,350 --> 00:54:44,610
it's not like that. You know, it's like it's a lifestyle.

857
00:54:45,170 --> 00:54:48,780
But at the same time too, I'm kind of like a hippie.

858
00:54:49,100 --> 00:54:52,620
Like, I've been, there's been this whole change in my

859
00:54:53,120 --> 00:54:56,100
demeanor. I used to be very kind of pissed off. I always felt like I

860
00:54:56,600 --> 00:55:00,860
had a chip on my shoulder, very negative way of thinking. And it's,

861
00:55:00,940 --> 00:55:04,620
it's that kind of way of thinking that I felt

862
00:55:05,120 --> 00:55:08,340
was bringing me down. I couldn't focus on

863
00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:12,060
trying to get healthier. It just, I always had bad feelings,

864
00:55:12,560 --> 00:55:14,780
so I was going to eat those bad feelings. You know, it was like it

865
00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:18,800
all around just wasn't healthy. And I said, I need to flip this

866
00:55:19,300 --> 00:55:22,480
switch. I'm going to force myself to be positive until it becomes a habit.

867
00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:26,400
And I did that. And now I'm this just

868
00:55:26,900 --> 00:55:29,440
extremely happy, chill person.

869
00:55:30,320 --> 00:55:33,880
And that attitude really helps me in this lifestyle too,

870
00:55:34,380 --> 00:55:38,080
because I get to open my mind to

871
00:55:38,580 --> 00:55:42,730
all sorts of different things and it doesn't feel, I don't feel like I

872
00:55:43,230 --> 00:55:46,770
have a chip on my shoulder. I don't feel like I have to fight fights

873
00:55:47,270 --> 00:55:50,450
with people and things like that. There's, like I said, there's people in for some

874
00:55:50,950 --> 00:55:54,170
bad intentions. So we try to not, not so much teachers, but we do try

875
00:55:54,670 --> 00:55:57,690
to like guide people if they ask questions. We're in

876
00:55:58,190 --> 00:56:01,610
a lot of social media platforms so they'll ask different questions

877
00:56:02,110 --> 00:56:05,730
and we try. But really this, this podcast

878
00:56:06,230 --> 00:56:09,520
started just from conversations that we have. And we would have these

879
00:56:10,020 --> 00:56:13,480
conversations in front of others. And, you know, it's. I'm very

880
00:56:13,980 --> 00:56:17,600
inquisitive, and she has very interesting opinions, and sometimes

881
00:56:18,100 --> 00:56:22,240
we agree, and sometimes we don't, and people will see us have these conversations,

882
00:56:22,740 --> 00:56:25,880
and they're like, I wish me and my husband can have those conversations the way

883
00:56:26,380 --> 00:56:29,920
y' all just did, you know, And. And she. She's been

884
00:56:30,420 --> 00:56:34,490
saying since the pandemic, we need to record our conversations and

885
00:56:34,570 --> 00:56:36,810
put it on a podcast. And we just didn't do it. And I was like,

886
00:56:37,310 --> 00:56:40,170
I just. I wasn't that confident. It wasn't 2025,

887
00:56:41,690 --> 00:56:45,330
so. So, yeah, I, I, I finally said

888
00:56:45,830 --> 00:56:48,570
she had been telling me for years, and I bought the stuff, and I was

889
00:56:49,070 --> 00:56:51,530
just like, dude, nobody's gonna. Nobody's gonna listen to us talk about this stuff.

890
00:56:52,030 --> 00:56:54,330
This is ridiculous. Like, I. I'm not gonna do this. And so we didn't.

891
00:56:54,830 --> 00:56:57,810
We put it off to the side for a while, and then a friend of

892
00:56:58,310 --> 00:57:02,390
mine decided he was gonna start a podcast. And I'm. I'm that positive,

893
00:57:02,890 --> 00:57:06,470
supportive friend, and I'm like, fuck, yes, you should do that. And I threw

894
00:57:06,970 --> 00:57:09,230
out some ideas, and I was like, look, you know, you. You've got it.

895
00:57:09,730 --> 00:57:12,430
You've got it. This is your thing. You can do this. You can be a

896
00:57:12,930 --> 00:57:15,150
part of this community, and you can really be a voice, and it's good.

897
00:57:15,790 --> 00:57:19,070
Well, they asked me to be, I guess, their first guest.

898
00:57:19,630 --> 00:57:22,950
And the show went well to the point to where they said,

899
00:57:23,450 --> 00:57:26,430
I would like for you to be our permanent co host. And I was like,

900
00:57:27,520 --> 00:57:31,040
really? I don't want to do this. Like, I.

901
00:57:31,120 --> 00:57:33,920
This is. I just wanted to do the one show, but I was like,

902
00:57:34,420 --> 00:57:37,200
okay, fine. I'm not good at telling people no sometimes. So I was like,

903
00:57:37,700 --> 00:57:40,920
whatever, sure. And so I did the show. Well, then, of course,

904
00:57:41,420 --> 00:57:44,680
this one over here, she looks at me and she goes, hello. I've been telling

905
00:57:45,180 --> 00:57:48,240
you to do a podcast since 2020. This guy asked you to come onto his

906
00:57:48,740 --> 00:57:51,520
show, and now you're doing his show. Now you're a co host.

907
00:57:52,450 --> 00:57:56,490
And I'm like, I didn't realize. I said, fine, we'll start our

908
00:57:56,990 --> 00:58:00,810
show. And so I bought the equipment and I did

909
00:58:01,310 --> 00:58:04,290
the research, and finally I said, look, I'm gonna.

910
00:58:04,850 --> 00:58:08,329
If I sit back and I reevaluate and rerecord and

911
00:58:08,829 --> 00:58:10,770
go, okay, I don't like this. Let's do another one. I don't like this.

912
00:58:11,270 --> 00:58:13,290
Let's do another one. I said, we're never going to do it. I said,

913
00:58:13,790 --> 00:58:15,810
so what we're going to do is we're going to sit down and we're going

914
00:58:16,310 --> 00:58:19,780
to. We're going to press record and I'm going to lightly edit it,

915
00:58:20,280 --> 00:58:23,260
but we're going to put it out the way it is, and if,

916
00:58:23,420 --> 00:58:27,220
if it becomes a thing, if it takes off, maybe we'll

917
00:58:27,720 --> 00:58:30,780
continue. But I said, I'm looking for any reason to quit.

918
00:58:31,740 --> 00:58:35,140
And I think I've quit the show about 70 times. Our first

919
00:58:35,640 --> 00:58:37,900
episode dropped Thanksgiving of 2024.

920
00:58:38,620 --> 00:58:41,700
And luckily for us, we have a very supportive

921
00:58:42,200 --> 00:58:45,900
local community that really signed on and they started listening

922
00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:50,420
to our podcast and the numbers started rising and people

923
00:58:50,920 --> 00:58:54,940
started talking and it went outside of our local community and it started spreading

924
00:58:55,440 --> 00:58:59,740
through the state. And the good thing about our community

925
00:58:59,820 --> 00:59:03,580
members is a lot of them travel. There's a lot of people that are

926
00:59:03,660 --> 00:59:07,260
maybe retired or retired military or they just,

927
00:59:07,660 --> 00:59:10,620
they come and go and they have an RV or whatever,

928
00:59:11,020 --> 00:59:14,540
and they hit up these different clubs and they're in these different communities.

929
00:59:15,040 --> 00:59:17,620
And before you know it, it's like, hey, you should listen to this.

930
00:59:18,260 --> 00:59:21,940
I think you may enjoy it. And it just kind of

931
00:59:22,440 --> 00:59:26,260
exploded. Now we have listeners not only nationally, but we have

932
00:59:26,760 --> 00:59:30,340
listeners in several different countries. And it's really,

933
00:59:30,840 --> 00:59:33,940
really cool to know that there are people that are, you know,

934
00:59:34,440 --> 00:59:38,300
kind of enjoying what. What we didn't even figure local people would listen

935
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:42,700
to. You know, it's just us interacting, talking about our experiences,

936
00:59:43,200 --> 00:59:46,610
talking about what we know and what we enjoyed and what we

937
00:59:47,110 --> 00:59:50,970
didn't enjoy. And yeah, it's been a. It's been a thing. It's kind of exploded.

938
00:59:51,130 --> 00:59:53,850
And we're really enjoying it. It's a lot of fun.

939
00:59:54,410 --> 00:59:57,610
Yeah. Wow. I'm just like,

940
00:59:58,010 --> 01:00:02,130
no. And sexuality is so fluid. Yes. You know, and that's what's so interesting

941
01:00:02,630 --> 01:00:06,250
about all these conversations. I realized as we were talking, I realized I'm also

942
01:00:06,750 --> 01:00:09,930
intrigued. So I. I am involved with two different people that happen to be married.

943
01:00:10,430 --> 01:00:13,720
Oh, right on. And. And I. I didn't realize until we started talking,

944
01:00:14,220 --> 01:00:17,400
but they're married. They're both married to other men. Oh, okay. This has been very

945
01:00:17,900 --> 01:00:21,240
recent. So, like, I'm talking maybe in the last six months. Jeremy, did I.

946
01:00:21,320 --> 01:00:24,880
I was holding Ethical non monogamy is the label of

947
01:00:25,380 --> 01:00:28,960
that. I was holding back. Guess, guess what, world you've got your

948
01:00:29,460 --> 01:00:32,120
toes in. Look at me now.

949
01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:35,400
Look at that. One podcast and you're already. There we go.

950
01:00:35,880 --> 01:00:39,670
Right? But I, I had. I think that's why I

951
01:00:40,170 --> 01:00:42,830
had questions, because I was like. Because I found myself on the other end of

952
01:00:43,330 --> 01:00:46,510
that, being the other person. Being like, I said, hold up, let's have a conversation.

953
01:00:47,010 --> 01:00:49,830
Because I agree with you all completely. It's completely about communication off the bat.

954
01:00:50,330 --> 01:00:53,630
Yeah. My first insecurity was I want to make sure you're secure in your relationships,

955
01:00:54,130 --> 01:00:57,070
because I'm not about to be the other person. I'm not a home wrecker.

956
01:00:57,570 --> 01:01:00,430
Yes. And both have. One has. Have family, they have a child,

957
01:01:00,750 --> 01:01:03,950
and. And the other one is in relationship. But I can tell

958
01:01:04,450 --> 01:01:07,270
there's something lacking, and I wanted to be very sure.

959
01:01:07,750 --> 01:01:11,190
And so the first one sure enough was feeling some kind of way.

960
01:01:11,690 --> 01:01:14,150
And I was like, ooh, I feel like he would, like, fall for me.

961
01:01:14,650 --> 01:01:16,950
And I'm like, yes, he's married. You know, I mean, and this is why I

962
01:01:17,450 --> 01:01:20,630
was kind of asking. And the other one, solid, secure. It's easy, breezy.

963
01:01:20,710 --> 01:01:24,590
He has an understanding. I have an understanding. But I had to catch myself

964
01:01:25,090 --> 01:01:28,350
a couple times to be like, he's married. That's.

965
01:01:28,850 --> 01:01:32,360
That. That's. That It's. That's the boundary. And it very much is about boundaries,

966
01:01:32,860 --> 01:01:35,680
but you really have to be in touch with yourself to be able to identify

967
01:01:36,180 --> 01:01:39,640
those. Those moments and how you're feeling and check in with yourself. So,

968
01:01:40,040 --> 01:01:43,400
no, believe it or not, this is teaching me something, because I have

969
01:01:43,900 --> 01:01:46,960
never been involved with somebody that was in a marriage. Yeah. And it was one

970
01:01:47,460 --> 01:01:50,040
thing to be in a relationship. It's very different to be in a bona fide

971
01:01:50,540 --> 01:01:53,760
marriage. Like I said, I do. Yeah. Yes. Okay. And that's, you know, you have

972
01:01:54,260 --> 01:01:57,900
to ask the questions. And we have. Actually, our. Our girlfriend

973
01:01:58,400 --> 01:02:02,220
is in a similar situation. I mean, she's. I mean, she's seeing

974
01:02:02,720 --> 01:02:06,140
us, but we've also made it clear we're not exclusive.

975
01:02:06,780 --> 01:02:10,300
So it's like you can see whoever you want. You can do your own thing.

976
01:02:10,779 --> 01:02:14,340
And, you know, she's gotten involved with other people and this and

977
01:02:14,840 --> 01:02:16,900
that and. And it's just one of those things where she's like, you know,

978
01:02:17,400 --> 01:02:20,980
I'm still trying to figure out things, but it's nice to know that

979
01:02:21,480 --> 01:02:24,660
you guys are as solid as you are and that this isn't going to be

980
01:02:25,160 --> 01:02:28,580
an issue. Yeah. And we're figuring out things, because that's new.

981
01:02:29,080 --> 01:02:32,540
But it's an. It's all about the uncomfortable conversation. And if you

982
01:02:33,040 --> 01:02:36,860
can have it with others, if you can have it with yourself. And that's the

983
01:02:37,360 --> 01:02:41,060
big thing, is it's uncomfortable. Nobody likes uncomfortable conversations,

984
01:02:41,380 --> 01:02:44,740
but you grow from them. You know what I mean? And we've

985
01:02:45,240 --> 01:02:48,140
had so many of them. We have them all the time. I mean, this could

986
01:02:48,640 --> 01:02:52,100
potentially be an uncomfortable conversation if you did it like five or six

987
01:02:52,600 --> 01:02:55,440
years ago. You know what I mean? Like, this is just a different time.

988
01:02:55,940 --> 01:02:59,720
But it's those uncomfortable conversations and that's why we talk so

989
01:03:00,220 --> 01:03:03,280
fluidly about this sort of thing and it doesn't really bother us to have,

990
01:03:03,600 --> 01:03:07,280
we don't have hang ups. We are both very accountable

991
01:03:07,780 --> 01:03:10,720
for our actions and, and that's kind of our thing.

992
01:03:11,280 --> 01:03:14,920
I, I, I've always told her, I said, look, you know, you can't cheat on

993
01:03:15,420 --> 01:03:18,720
me. One thing if you're with somebody and there's

994
01:03:19,220 --> 01:03:22,890
somebody that you're interested in and you want to just like it's in the heat

995
01:03:23,390 --> 01:03:25,730
of the moment, you want to play. Do your thing, man. If I'm not around,

996
01:03:26,210 --> 01:03:30,490
go ahead, do your thing. I said don't hide it because

997
01:03:30,990 --> 01:03:34,530
that's an intention. You know what I mean? You're hiding something.

998
01:03:35,030 --> 01:03:38,890
That's an, that's a sneaky intention. That's you, that's the same as

999
01:03:39,390 --> 01:03:42,370
the equivalent of lying. You don't need to do that. We're out in the open.

1000
01:03:42,870 --> 01:03:45,730
You can just tell me my, I'm not going to have a bad reaction,

1001
01:03:46,230 --> 01:03:49,010
you know, we'll talk about it. And it's the same thing with me, you know,

1002
01:03:49,510 --> 01:03:52,450
if, if I did something that maybe she didn't like or anything like that,

1003
01:03:52,930 --> 01:03:55,650
it's fine, we can talk about it and we'll be fine.

1004
01:03:55,970 --> 01:03:59,410
But if I hide it. Oh, that's, that's an intention. You know

1005
01:03:59,910 --> 01:04:03,370
what I mean? Yeah. Now this question is for pris. So when

1006
01:04:03,870 --> 01:04:07,130
you, I know we were just talking and you equated to like performative

1007
01:04:07,630 --> 01:04:10,530
and like being a porn star. So what do you do, you know, go stereotype

1008
01:04:11,030 --> 01:04:13,770
with that, thinking that their husband wants a fantasy of a porn star. And how

1009
01:04:14,270 --> 01:04:18,150
did you. I did. How did you go about like I did.

1010
01:04:18,230 --> 01:04:21,670
Okay. Yeah. So you're doing that because you actually

1011
01:04:22,170 --> 01:04:24,950
enjoy it or was, you know, I'm trying to say. I don't know what I'm

1012
01:04:25,450 --> 01:04:28,870
trying to ask. Yeah. So. So I would,

1013
01:04:29,430 --> 01:04:32,950
sometimes it would be so transactional that it was purely

1014
01:04:33,450 --> 01:04:36,870
for his rocks. Is that an

1015
01:04:37,370 --> 01:04:40,950
expression of love? Would you say yes. Okay. Because I want to see him

1016
01:04:41,380 --> 01:04:44,660
happy. Right. But then sometimes I would get very insecure and be like,

1017
01:04:46,820 --> 01:04:50,220
say like only fans or something. Right. Why are you watching

1018
01:04:50,720 --> 01:04:54,220
that? That's not like, that's porn. That's not real. Like why

1019
01:04:54,720 --> 01:04:57,780
Are you fantasizing about that? I would get really insecure about that.

1020
01:04:57,940 --> 01:05:00,820
Have a conversation with him. We would understand.

1021
01:05:01,620 --> 01:05:04,660
And then I would have,

1022
01:05:05,300 --> 01:05:09,230
I don't know, moments of more.

1023
01:05:11,550 --> 01:05:14,750
Not very porn star ish. And it would make me feel

1024
01:05:15,250 --> 01:05:18,950
sexy. So, like, now, because I do now, because I'm comfortable

1025
01:05:19,450 --> 01:05:23,469
with my own skin. It's for me, too. But I do think

1026
01:05:23,969 --> 01:05:28,550
people get the idea of, oh, are you fantasizing about that? And when

1027
01:05:29,050 --> 01:05:32,910
you're insecure and you're not having those conversations now

1028
01:05:34,580 --> 01:05:38,060
we have those conversations during sex. It's like,

1029
01:05:38,560 --> 01:05:41,500
who are you thinking about? Or who do you want to be with? You know,

1030
01:05:42,000 --> 01:05:44,100
so it's even. It's hot. It's very hot for us.

1031
01:05:45,780 --> 01:05:49,300
But, yeah, no, I. I did. When I was. When I was insecure

1032
01:05:49,800 --> 01:05:52,180
and I didn't know how to have those conversations, I'd get very, like,

1033
01:05:53,060 --> 01:05:56,660
he's. Just. Because his type is very different than my type. I love.

1034
01:05:57,860 --> 01:06:00,880
I love thicker ladies, but thick like me.

1035
01:06:02,480 --> 01:06:05,040
I used to only gravitate to Latinas.

1036
01:06:07,520 --> 01:06:10,000
Now our girlfriend is white,

1037
01:06:11,680 --> 01:06:14,480
but she's. Like a white version. She's like a white version of me.

1038
01:06:14,960 --> 01:06:18,520
So I basically have two of her. They're both like, what did you sign up

1039
01:06:19,020 --> 01:06:22,480
for? I don't know. You know, nuts. It's. It's funny because I'm like, man,

1040
01:06:22,980 --> 01:06:26,720
you're crazy, dude. But okay, whatever. Has too many. Has too many. Yeah.

1041
01:06:27,220 --> 01:06:29,820
So, yeah, I mean, I think people sometimes think,

1042
01:06:32,140 --> 01:06:35,780
as a woman, right, we get insecure. I feel more than.

1043
01:06:36,280 --> 01:06:39,820
More so than men, that, yeah,

1044
01:06:40,320 --> 01:06:43,620
are you fantasizing about that? Are you? You know, it took a lot of

1045
01:06:44,120 --> 01:06:47,220
conversation. Well, you know, and I remember the negative portions of it where she.

1046
01:06:47,720 --> 01:06:50,500
She would be like, are you fantasizing? Like, she would say it like that.

1047
01:06:51,000 --> 01:06:54,630
Are you fantasizing about her? And I would say.

1048
01:06:55,130 --> 01:06:58,590
I would answer, and I would answer honestly because we don't lie to

1049
01:06:59,090 --> 01:07:02,070
each other. And I was always prepared for a fight afterwards. I'd be like,

1050
01:07:02,570 --> 01:07:05,950
yeah. And I would get my feelings, and. I'd be like, I'm. It has nothing

1051
01:07:06,450 --> 01:07:09,190
to do with you. It's just, wow. I mean,

1052
01:07:09,830 --> 01:07:12,910
like, I know what I have at home, and I. And I still. I check

1053
01:07:13,410 --> 01:07:15,670
her out all the time. Like, I think she's the hottest woman in the world.

1054
01:07:16,170 --> 01:07:19,520
You know what I mean? And so I.

1055
01:07:20,020 --> 01:07:24,080
To me, she's perfect in every single way

1056
01:07:24,580 --> 01:07:28,720
for me. And everybody that I see outside

1057
01:07:29,220 --> 01:07:32,560
of her, I don't see in that way. Like, there's not somebody that

1058
01:07:33,060 --> 01:07:36,800
I can look and go, Perfect in every way. But there

1059
01:07:37,300 --> 01:07:41,320
are certain shallow aspects of somebody that I can really enjoy and

1060
01:07:41,820 --> 01:07:45,380
be like, yeah, I have totally thought about

1061
01:07:45,880 --> 01:07:49,660
it, and in my mind, we've had sex a few times, and it

1062
01:07:50,160 --> 01:07:53,740
was good. And,

1063
01:07:54,240 --> 01:07:56,620
you know, the first few times that I was honest about it, like, it.

1064
01:07:57,120 --> 01:08:00,100
It was a fight. It was. Yeah. You know, and I remember, like,

1065
01:08:00,260 --> 01:08:03,300
I remember early on when we were first dating

1066
01:08:04,020 --> 01:08:06,900
and we were walking around in the Trade center,

1067
01:08:07,220 --> 01:08:10,980
and we had already. We were openly having discussions

1068
01:08:11,380 --> 01:08:14,940
about swinging and this and that. And I knew she was

1069
01:08:15,440 --> 01:08:18,180
into girls and I was into girls. And so there was something that we had

1070
01:08:18,680 --> 01:08:22,660
in common we could talk about. And we were. There was this. There was this

1071
01:08:23,460 --> 01:08:26,500
big booty Latina right in front of us. I mean, I'm talking, like,

1072
01:08:26,660 --> 01:08:29,540
JLO style. Like, she was walking in front of us,

1073
01:08:29,860 --> 01:08:33,140
and I'm holding hands with Bris, and we're walking. And I said,

1074
01:08:33,640 --> 01:08:36,100
hey, check it out. Like, damn.

1075
01:08:36,990 --> 01:08:40,550
And she got pissed. And she

1076
01:08:41,050 --> 01:08:42,990
didn't talk to me for the rest of that time that we were there until

1077
01:08:43,490 --> 01:08:46,430
we got into the vehicle. And I was like, what I do?

1078
01:08:47,310 --> 01:08:50,750
And she was like, you know, she just started expressing.

1079
01:08:51,250 --> 01:08:54,150
She. She got upset that. That I was checking out this chick in front of

1080
01:08:54,650 --> 01:08:57,630
her. And I was like, but wait, I thought that's what we do. Like,

1081
01:08:57,870 --> 01:09:01,190
I thought that was the idea here, you know,

1082
01:09:01,690 --> 01:09:05,219
and that we had that kind of freedom, but it was still so

1083
01:09:05,719 --> 01:09:09,579
early on, and she still had a lot of insecurities about herself and a

1084
01:09:10,079 --> 01:09:12,819
lot of the old feelings that she had from a cheating husband and this and

1085
01:09:13,319 --> 01:09:16,139
that. It just. She was nice. It's all time and place. Yeah.

1086
01:09:16,779 --> 01:09:20,219
She wasn't there yet. Yeah. She's spicy, man. She's spicy.

1087
01:09:21,019 --> 01:09:24,179
She reminds me I'm still alive. It reminds me how

1088
01:09:24,679 --> 01:09:28,399
many days I've got left. Yeah. I mean, I'm now taking

1089
01:09:28,550 --> 01:09:32,230
a fantasize about anything he wants. I like to make those fantasies come

1090
01:09:32,730 --> 01:09:35,710
true. So there you go. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and somebody told me one time,

1091
01:09:36,210 --> 01:09:38,550
they were like, well, is it really a fantasy if you know that you can.

1092
01:09:38,790 --> 01:09:41,670
You can get it that way? And I'm like, yeah,

1093
01:09:41,750 --> 01:09:45,350
Yeah. I mean, I still fantasize about my wife. And I've had her every single

1094
01:09:45,850 --> 01:09:49,110
way I can. It's. It's. It's just the daydream.

1095
01:09:49,610 --> 01:09:52,470
It's the moment. It's the thought. It's what you can put together in your own

1096
01:09:52,970 --> 01:09:56,680
head, you know? And I think that there's a lot of people who.

1097
01:09:57,400 --> 01:10:01,040
They associate sex with love. Like romantic

1098
01:10:01,540 --> 01:10:05,360
love. And it's hard for them to disassociate

1099
01:10:05,860 --> 01:10:10,040
the two. I think that even gets back into, like, transactional versus.

1100
01:10:10,540 --> 01:10:14,160
Yeah. Intimacy. Exactly. That's such a conversation in itself.

1101
01:10:14,660 --> 01:10:18,800
Yeah. And we've done shows on it, and I think that that comes up an

1102
01:10:19,300 --> 01:10:22,550
awful lot for me. I. Like I said, I. I can't

1103
01:10:23,050 --> 01:10:26,430
just have sex with a stranger. I gotta have some sort of intimate connection with

1104
01:10:26,930 --> 01:10:30,590
them in order to do so. I'm the same way. Yeah. And. And. But there's

1105
01:10:31,090 --> 01:10:34,190
a lot of people that. That are like, Chris, where it's like, okay, you're cool.

1106
01:10:34,430 --> 01:10:37,990
You seem like a nice person. Your hands were soft when we high fived.

1107
01:10:38,490 --> 01:10:41,070
Let's go to the back. You know what I mean? Like, she's all cool.

1108
01:10:41,570 --> 01:10:44,390
You know, it's like, oh, you actually asked if it was okay to kiss me.

1109
01:10:44,890 --> 01:10:48,450
Yeah, let's go have sex. Let's jump it up four or five. Not. You're polite

1110
01:10:48,950 --> 01:10:52,890
and you're nice. Oh, and if you have good teeth. And teeth

1111
01:10:53,390 --> 01:10:55,810
are big. Okay. Yeah, I am down.

1112
01:10:56,770 --> 01:10:59,970
Yeah. Yeah. Very specific stuff she's into.

1113
01:11:00,530 --> 01:11:04,450
Yeah. So it's. It's a whole different kind of complex. And now I

1114
01:11:04,950 --> 01:11:08,450
have. I have another question. And you all doing this podcast. Have you ever had.

1115
01:11:09,170 --> 01:11:12,410
You said sometimes people go into this with, like, bad intentions. Have you ever

1116
01:11:12,910 --> 01:11:16,240
had people listen to your podcast, know you in the community, and then approach you

1117
01:11:16,740 --> 01:11:19,640
with things that have been shared on air? Many times. What do you do with

1118
01:11:20,140 --> 01:11:23,680
that? Many times we've got an approach that, oh, we know

1119
01:11:24,180 --> 01:11:27,840
you so well. We also. They know us

1120
01:11:28,340 --> 01:11:31,880
so well because we're so open. Well, so that just want to have sex

1121
01:11:32,380 --> 01:11:35,640
with us because we're on a. Podcast that has come up, which is.

1122
01:11:36,120 --> 01:11:38,040
We've. We've had people, really.

1123
01:11:38,840 --> 01:11:42,930
There's people in our circle that. They know us. They listen to our podcasts,

1124
01:11:43,430 --> 01:11:46,610
and sometimes we make references to situations or people or,

1125
01:11:46,850 --> 01:11:50,770
like, if we know of a certain situation, we bring it up on the podcast

1126
01:11:51,270 --> 01:11:54,970
as an example. I don't normally talk about something unless I've

1127
01:11:55,470 --> 01:11:58,370
talked to them about it first, though. And I'm like, hey, you know,

1128
01:11:58,530 --> 01:12:01,770
what you're going through is really interesting, and I feel like we have a lot

1129
01:12:02,270 --> 01:12:05,170
to say about it. Would that be okay? I said, we. We won't mention any

1130
01:12:05,670 --> 01:12:08,660
names or anything like that. But, yeah,

1131
01:12:09,140 --> 01:12:13,140
we've had them. I've. I get texts a lot from people that

1132
01:12:13,640 --> 01:12:16,660
we know in the community where they're like, I heard

1133
01:12:16,820 --> 01:12:20,100
the. The show yesterday, and you

1134
01:12:20,600 --> 01:12:24,260
made reference to something that I found very interesting, that similarities.

1135
01:12:24,760 --> 01:12:27,860
And it's like. Oh, yeah, well, that's what we were talking about. Yeah. You know,

1136
01:12:28,180 --> 01:12:31,700
and. And it's. And it's like. Okay, cool. Like, it hasn't been negative,

1137
01:12:31,940 --> 01:12:35,490
fortunately. Okay. And because everything that we talk

1138
01:12:35,990 --> 01:12:39,530
about, when we do talk about it, we try to portray both

1139
01:12:40,030 --> 01:12:44,970
sides of the. Of the coin, so to speak. So whatever Chris

1140
01:12:45,470 --> 01:12:48,849
is feeling, as far as what she sees and what her

1141
01:12:49,349 --> 01:12:52,370
opinions are, I try to play the devil's advocate. Yeah. And see the other side

1142
01:12:52,870 --> 01:12:56,370
of things. We try to give it everything, equal treatment as

1143
01:12:56,870 --> 01:13:00,060
as much as possible, because there's a lot of things to think about. Every situation

1144
01:13:00,560 --> 01:13:03,660
is not the same, you know. Yeah. I was gonna say this is really cool,

1145
01:13:04,160 --> 01:13:07,020
the idea of you bringing on a guest. Yeah, it's a really cool idea.

1146
01:13:07,520 --> 01:13:11,260
I was. If I can say on air also just taking a

1147
01:13:11,760 --> 01:13:15,340
phone call or something or getting questions. So we. Yeah, yeah. Do people ever.

1148
01:13:15,840 --> 01:13:18,220
So we don't and ask questions. So we do have.

1149
01:13:18,620 --> 01:13:21,380
We have the ability. And I'm glad that you brought that up, because I normally

1150
01:13:21,880 --> 01:13:25,100
sign off with that. Yeah. But good job. You know,

1151
01:13:25,690 --> 01:13:28,890
we do have several different ways that people can contact us.

1152
01:13:29,390 --> 01:13:33,330
We love the interaction from the community. We have had people send

1153
01:13:33,830 --> 01:13:37,770
us emails, reach out to us on our social media and things

1154
01:13:38,270 --> 01:13:42,250
like that. And it was. It was hard. It was harder to maintain

1155
01:13:42,490 --> 01:13:46,010
then because we had all the different social medias. We had Facebook,

1156
01:13:46,090 --> 01:13:49,930
we have Instagram, we have TikTok and Snap,

1157
01:13:50,810 --> 01:13:54,470
and then we also have, you know, our Facebook groups that we're a

1158
01:13:54,970 --> 01:13:58,550
part of. We have our own personal stuff that we do. And so

1159
01:13:59,050 --> 01:14:03,110
we finally. We started up a new website that basically takes our podcast,

1160
01:14:03,430 --> 01:14:07,590
it puts it on the website. We're going to be starting

1161
01:14:08,090 --> 01:14:11,550
up video along to be the companion

1162
01:14:12,050 --> 01:14:15,390
to our audio, and we're going to start offering that

1163
01:14:15,890 --> 01:14:19,250
on the website as well. So that people have two ways of scoping out the

1164
01:14:19,400 --> 01:14:22,840
podcast. And then on top of all that, you know,

1165
01:14:23,080 --> 01:14:26,680
in that same website, they can reach out to us via

1166
01:14:26,760 --> 01:14:30,280
message. They can actually leave us voicemails through the.

1167
01:14:30,520 --> 01:14:33,920
The website. There's like a little side piece on there. It says, leave us

1168
01:14:34,420 --> 01:14:36,880
a voicemail, and you just press it, and you can be on your computer or

1169
01:14:37,380 --> 01:14:40,960
your smartphone, whatever, and it just takes down this voicemail and it sends

1170
01:14:41,460 --> 01:14:45,120
it to us, and we can either play it on the air, we can read

1171
01:14:45,620 --> 01:14:48,300
it on the air, if it's a story, if it's a question, whatever. You know,

1172
01:14:48,800 --> 01:14:52,180
we. We really love the interactivity with our listeners.

1173
01:14:52,500 --> 01:14:55,380
Now, we don't go live to take phone calls,

1174
01:14:56,180 --> 01:15:00,220
but that is something that we're looking at possibly interjecting a,

1175
01:15:00,720 --> 01:15:04,340
a live streaming day once a month, something like that,

1176
01:15:04,900 --> 01:15:08,500
you know, early on where people can tune in live and

1177
01:15:08,980 --> 01:15:12,340
call in and do that whole thing. So that's in the works.

1178
01:15:13,180 --> 01:15:19,980
But yeah, we, people can easily go to www.beyond-monogamy.com

1179
01:15:20,620 --> 01:15:24,460
and that's where they can basically find anything and all things beyond

1180
01:15:24,960 --> 01:15:28,260
monogamy with Adam and Chris. There you go. Yeah, this was our first guest.

1181
01:15:28,760 --> 01:15:31,860
How did you like it? I had a wonderful time. I'm glad, wonderful being a

1182
01:15:32,360 --> 01:15:35,940
first guest. I'm glad, you know, there. If there was anybody that I could have

1183
01:15:36,440 --> 01:15:39,380
on. I think that this is really cool because you and I, we had a

1184
01:15:39,880 --> 01:15:43,850
lot of catching up to do and your. I always told Chris,

1185
01:15:44,350 --> 01:15:47,770
I was like, his reactions are golden. Like your reactions.

1186
01:15:48,270 --> 01:15:51,930
You've been. It's one of the best reactions, you know, I, I could ever

1187
01:15:52,430 --> 01:15:56,010
have. And since I don't really, you know, there's a lot of people that we

1188
01:15:56,510 --> 01:15:58,730
went to school with that you wouldn't believe. I mean, they're, they're involved in the

1189
01:15:59,230 --> 01:16:02,810
lifestyle and, and I'll have that conversation after this. You know,

1190
01:16:03,310 --> 01:16:06,410
and there's, there's a lot of people. Yeah, we, we have a lot of listeners,

1191
01:16:06,910 --> 01:16:09,740
you know, that, that you know, from. And, and we've been contacted by a lot

1192
01:16:10,240 --> 01:16:13,900
of people. It's, it's really a fascinating lifestyle because like I said, it's, it's becoming

1193
01:16:14,400 --> 01:16:18,300
more, it's becoming less taboo. It's becoming more accepted. So it's really cool.

1194
01:16:18,860 --> 01:16:22,260
So with that, I'm not going to hold. Hold you up anymore. We, we have

1195
01:16:22,760 --> 01:16:26,220
a town to sightsee. So I just want to say thank you to Jeremy

1196
01:16:26,720 --> 01:16:30,180
for joining us today, one of many guests that will be coming on

1197
01:16:30,680 --> 01:16:34,620
this show as we go along and all of our listeners out

1198
01:16:35,120 --> 01:16:38,880
there, we really appreciate you guys. We love, love you guys. We really

1199
01:16:39,380 --> 01:16:42,440
enjoy hearing from you. So like you said, like I said earlier, if you could

1200
01:16:42,940 --> 01:16:46,000
go to www.beyond-monogamy.com,

1201
01:16:46,320 --> 01:16:49,840
go in there and just shoot us a message. Let me hear your sexy voice

1202
01:16:50,960 --> 01:16:54,480
because I'm sure you sound so fine. So fine.

1203
01:16:55,040 --> 01:16:57,920
Hey, girl. He's so, so funny.

1204
01:16:58,480 --> 01:17:00,960
So fine. Anyways, with that,

1205
01:17:01,440 --> 01:17:04,230
we will see you guys next week. Bye.