The Original Swingers: Sam L. Feldman on Hookups, Hiccups & Freedom

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Alright y'all, before we
dive in, a quick heads up.

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This show is raw, real, and
definitely not rated pg.

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We're talking about adult themes, sexual
content, and the kind of stuff you

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probably don't want blasting through your
speakers at work or around your kits.

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So grab some headphones, pour your
drink of choice and get comfy.

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Oh, and just so we're clear, we are not
licensed therapists, counselors, or sex.

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Couches.

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Sex coaches.

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Sex coaches, not sex couches

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or just a couple of people sharing our
lives, experiences and sexy adventures.

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An ethical non-monogamy.

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So with that, pull up a
chair and enjoy the show.

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And.

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Hello, and welcome to another
episode of Beyond Monogamy.

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I'm Adam.

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And I'm Pris.

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And today we are hopping in the
time machine and heading back to

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the original sexual revolution.

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Yep.

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Before lifestyle was a lifestyle
before SDC, before three.

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Fun.

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Before anybody said ethical non-monogamy.

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That's right.

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Our guest.

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Sam l Feldman didn't just
study it, he lived it.

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He's the author of Hookups, hiccups,
and Happenstances, A Wild Ride through

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the sixties and seventies full of
hookups that made headlines, hiccups,

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that taught lessons and happenstances
that changed how people saw love.

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And yes, if you're watching
this on YouTube, that's his book

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sitting right there on our table.

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That's right.

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That's right.

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Sam's stories are raw,
funny, and deeply human.

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Kind of like what happens when you first
open your relationship and realize, oh,

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this isn't as simple as I thought it was.

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So get comfy.

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We're talking about what the early
days of sexual liberation can teach

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us about swinging communication,
jealousy, and connection today.

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So welcome, Sam.

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Yes.

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Welcome Sam.

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Thank you so much for.

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Thank you all.

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I've been looking forward to this.

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I'm thrilled to be here so.

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Let's let it happen.

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Yeah.

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You know, I, I, I will tell you, I
am a, I used to describe myself as

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a history buff, and I did a lot of
reading and, uh, you know, I, I didn't

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get to touch up so much on the sexual
revolutions of the sixties and seventies,

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but my parents were of that era.

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Yeah.

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Um, and so I'm, I was really curious and
I've had your book for a while and I got

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to get through it, and it was a lot of.

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Fun, a really enjoyable book.

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Uh, now we're gonna dive right in in
hookups, hiccups and happenstances.

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You talk about discovering
freedom before it had a label.

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How did people find each other back
then without apps, websites and

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swinger apps and swinger clubs?

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That's a damn good question.

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And you know, it was
happenstance, I would say.

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Uh.

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A lot of it was happenstance.

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We, back in the sixties and seventies,
of course, there was no such

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terminology as ethical non-monogamy.

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So the closest to it
would've been key clubs.

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Neighborhood key clubs.

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That was the beginning, I would
say, of the sexual revolution

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as far as non-monogamy.

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So key clubs.

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And then outside of that as far as Butch
and his experiences in, in the book.

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It was meetings.

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It was again, happenstances and being
in the right place at the right time.

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Sometimes they weren't the happy,
periods that you would hope they'd be.

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But there was no such thing as filling out
an application or going online and talking

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about your kinks and trying to match up
with somebody who had the same kinks.

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I mean, it is unimaginable.

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I'm 86 years old and, uh, been married
62 years to the same wonderful woman.

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But to again, go out and
say, what are your kinks?

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Let's hook up tonight and.

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That's it.

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Yeah.

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So inconceivable

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it happened very naturally back

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then as opposed to not

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very, yeah, it's very technical.

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It's very, um, there's a lot of rules.

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There's a lot of rules now, a

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lot of rules, a lot of labels,
a lot of e every, everything's

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been well documented now.

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Yeah.

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Yep.

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A lot of reference.

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So you have to realize that
this was, again, the beginning

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of the sexual revolution.

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So.

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Women were able to have an
abortion legally, right?

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They were able to purchase contraceptives.

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Uh, up until that time you had to
be a couple, believe it or not,

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oh, to purchase contraceptives.

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So the law was passed where anyone
could purchase contraceptives

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and then you had the pill.

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So women had the freedom now
to be sexually active that

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they didn't have before without
extremely dire consequences.

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Another part of that.

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In 1970, Reagan signed
into law, no-fault divorce.

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And a lot of women were unable to get
divorces, you know, their housewives.

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They had no income.

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So if they were involved in a very bad,
uh, marriage whatever it was, abuse,

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physical, mental, emotional, whatever.

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They couldn't get out of it 'cause they
couldn't afford to, to hire a lawyer.

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So again, no fault divorce made
it easy for them without having to

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prove adultery or again, you know,
abuse, physical or mental abuse.

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So those freedoms gave
women the opportunity to.

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Be human.

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Be human to have their human desires.

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That's right.

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And I want to tell you now, so if
you look at my book, you read the

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first line of the book, it says, uh,
these stories may never happen again.

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And the last line says, don't
let them take the joy out of sex.

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Then the book came out in 2003.

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That was before Trump was
reelected when Trump got reelected.

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And they took over Congress, they took
over the Senate and the White House,

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and it was, it's totally conservative.

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I, I don't have to tell you anything you
don't know, but there's a conservative

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manifesto out there called Project 2025.

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Yeah.

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And Project 2025 wants to take women
and put 'em back in the kitchen.

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Yeah, with an apron and kids all around
their feet, they want to take away the,

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uh, the right and they've done that,
the right to have illegal abortion.

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They want to take away
the morning after pill.

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You know, it's taking away those
freedoms that women discovered

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back in the sixties and seventies.

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So you gotta be very careful.

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Project 2025.

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Also, there's something that you
ought to be very concerned about

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because there's a provision in there
that they want to ban pornography.

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They want to jail authors, producers like
yourself who produce pornography in their

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definition of pornography and jail them.

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You people have to be concerned.

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You're not.

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If this ever passed, you're not
gonna be able to have a program

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that's gonna talk about, um.

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Everything.

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Well, it's ev Yeah.

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Everything I, I, I'm trying to,
I'm trying to think of glory holes.

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You're not gonna be
able to tell about Yeah.

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People's actively sucking the glory holes.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Because they would throw
you in jail for this.

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So it it is very, we can laugh now.

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Yeah.

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But if we don't stay on top of this
and fight this it could happen.

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And again, women could lose their rights,
so, oh, sounds, the sexual revolution was.

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Was, uh, an awakening and we don't
want to go back to the dark ages.

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No.

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No we don't.

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And I am.

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Right there with you.

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I have daughters.

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I have lots of, female friends,
and I am, 100% agreeing with you.

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It's, it's, we don't
want it to go backwards.

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It's too much fun.

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It's too much freedom, like, yeah.

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Yeah.

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And Pris is very empowered now.

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Yeah.

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She's,

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She's living her life.

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Yeah.

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Like I can be as free as I want and.

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Our daughters can be as free as they want.

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And that's exactly
what, we, we thrive for.

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And you are, you are very
right on all of that.

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So what, back then, what were the
unwritten rules and how did folks

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handle things like jealousy and
boundaries when no one was teaching it?

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Did y'all just naturally
throw your men out?

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So there was, again, you have rules today.

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But back then, you know, with the
hookup there was no dialogue as

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far as, well, let's look at the
rule book or, check the boxes off.

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So I can't answer that there was such
a thing, but I can answer what in the

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book, Butch says, and Butch had his rules
where, l the L word was never mentioned.

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You kept the L word off the table.

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If you wore your wedding ring.

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So you're gonna be honest with
yourself and other people.

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No cheating?

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No, no.

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Everything was out in the open
type of thing with everybody.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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You know, there's a difference
between physical love and

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emotional lover activity and so.

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The references in the book are
going back to what physical they

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weren't emotional arrangements.

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They were hookups and, and, um,
you're just there in the moment.

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And so the, but if you, so
the L word never came in.

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Like there was never any, any
real kind of emotional commitment.

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It was literally just kind of
just sex, hit it and quit it.

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Correct.

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However.

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The butch had his rules so that if
the L word raised its head, it was

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gonna be like, let's talk about this,
or let's not even talk about it.

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If it comes up again.

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Butch's rule was walk away.

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You have to walk away If the
emotional starts to come in,

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the strictly sexual encounters,

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that's kind of like me.

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Yeah, that is a lot.

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Like, that's very me right

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there.

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I, I'm all, I'm not emotional.

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I'm very.

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Technical, let's just
do what we have to do.

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Yeah,

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yeah.

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You know, it's, it's very, um, very rigid,
very, let's get down to brass tacks.

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Uh, there's, there's not a
whole lot of emotion that passes

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through, and I'm the opposite.

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The L word can come up as much as it,
as it needs to, but I, I'm gonna have my

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fun and I like to have the connection and
I like to put in the time, you know, it

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just really, I, I want to say a lot more
people are coming out and admitting that.

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They need more connection
and less one night standish.

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I've seen that a lot lately now.

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Yeah.

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Now Sam, you call 'em hiccups, but
they're basically the same mistakes

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people still make now overpromising under
communicating, catching feelings, uh,

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or assuming everyone's on the same page.

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Which of your hiccups from
the book feel timeless?

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Like the kind of lessons every
non-monogamous couple learns the hard way?

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Well, I wanna keep it, not
in the realm of couples.

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Let's just talk about sexual activity
between people and, and let me go back

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and set the stage a little bit too.

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I believe we were married probably
about three years, and I, um,

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said to my wife one day, you know,
hun, I'd like to do a threesome.

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What do you say about doing a threesome?

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And her response was not
something I, I'm interested in.

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If you wanna do it, you do
it it came maybe months later

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and subject came up again.

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I brought it up, you know,
what about a threesome?

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And her response was exactly the same.

242
00:11:32,507 --> 00:11:33,677
It's not something I want to do.

243
00:11:34,007 --> 00:11:36,407
If you wanna do it, do it.

244
00:11:37,427 --> 00:11:42,047
And so after the third time, then it
was like, okay, I got the message.

245
00:11:42,137 --> 00:11:46,407
It's clear she's not interested,
but I'm free to do it.

246
00:11:47,307 --> 00:11:50,577
I tell you, we've been married
62 years and, uh, people say.

247
00:11:51,642 --> 00:11:52,572
What's the secret?

248
00:11:52,722 --> 00:11:58,932
And she has kind of a stock answer
and it is, pick your battles.

249
00:11:59,712 --> 00:11:59,922
Yes.

250
00:12:00,882 --> 00:12:04,512
And so, at an early age
she picked her battle.

251
00:12:05,562 --> 00:12:08,592
I'm not saying I, I don't
know how it would've turned

252
00:12:08,592 --> 00:12:11,112
out had she said No, no, no.

253
00:12:11,112 --> 00:12:13,022
And what are you talking about?

254
00:12:14,147 --> 00:12:16,787
You're bad for do, no,
that wasn't her answer.

255
00:12:16,787 --> 00:12:21,547
But I, if she had said no, and
I stuck to that I'm not sure

256
00:12:21,547 --> 00:12:23,797
how, how it would've all ended.

257
00:12:23,797 --> 00:12:28,507
But, you know, here we are six, two years
later and we've had a great marriage and,

258
00:12:28,507 --> 00:12:35,887
uh, that past that I got and her mentality
of pick your battles, it, you know.

259
00:12:36,442 --> 00:12:37,822
It was just perfect.

260
00:12:37,872 --> 00:12:38,407
Yeah, yeah.

261
00:12:38,407 --> 00:12:42,067
I'll tell you what, if that was a
battle that she chose not to fight, I'd

262
00:12:42,187 --> 00:12:48,157
love to see a battle that she chose to
fight, because that must have been mega.

263
00:12:49,157 --> 00:12:51,407
Um, well, go ahead.

264
00:12:51,557 --> 00:12:52,577
No, no, go ahead sir. Go ahead.

265
00:12:52,577 --> 00:12:52,667
Well,

266
00:12:53,712 --> 00:12:57,407
I was gonna say we had a, I believe,
a strong bond, you know, very,

267
00:12:58,097 --> 00:13:00,857
a very, but on, on top of that.

268
00:13:01,292 --> 00:13:02,732
I will go back a few steps.

269
00:13:02,852 --> 00:13:05,252
She came from a very religious family.

270
00:13:06,062 --> 00:13:07,532
Uh, they taught Sunday school.

271
00:13:07,532 --> 00:13:08,702
They were in the choir.

272
00:13:09,162 --> 00:13:12,042
So she had that typical.

273
00:13:12,747 --> 00:13:17,727
Reaction that women of her age at that
time were going through it was their

274
00:13:17,727 --> 00:13:22,437
grandmothers and their mothers saying,
oh, sex, uh, we don't talk about sex,

275
00:13:22,467 --> 00:13:24,657
or, you know, that's to have babies.

276
00:13:25,227 --> 00:13:28,467
I mean, that's really the way
it was for her mother and her

277
00:13:28,707 --> 00:13:30,597
grandmother, and, you know, the like.

278
00:13:31,327 --> 00:13:34,867
So when the sexual revolution hit
and women had the freedom to, to

279
00:13:34,867 --> 00:13:38,257
go out and explore and not worry
about the consequences of being

280
00:13:38,257 --> 00:13:44,287
pregnant and et cetera that, that
set the stage, but going back to her

281
00:13:44,287 --> 00:13:45,632
upbringing, she was very vanilla.

282
00:13:46,817 --> 00:13:50,987
Now, 62 years later, I might
have had a little impact.

283
00:13:51,557 --> 00:13:53,897
Not a great deal, but
a little impact there.

284
00:13:55,697 --> 00:14:00,557
You know, I feel like once we get past the
age of like 40, 45, we're like, all right,

285
00:14:01,217 --> 00:14:03,167
we don't have any more fucks to give.

286
00:14:03,167 --> 00:14:03,727
So that's right.

287
00:14:03,727 --> 00:14:04,757
So we're living our lives.

288
00:14:04,757 --> 00:14:04,817
So

289
00:14:05,597 --> 00:14:07,457
time to just be unapologetic about it.

290
00:14:07,457 --> 00:14:08,567
It's um, yeah,

291
00:14:09,227 --> 00:14:11,477
I'll say that one of my
favorite lines from the book.

292
00:14:11,837 --> 00:14:15,287
Is freedom without
communication is just chaos.

293
00:14:15,287 --> 00:14:16,637
Wearing a smile.

294
00:14:17,152 --> 00:14:20,957
I, I want you to explain that, like
what exactly this quote means to you.

295
00:14:23,327 --> 00:14:26,637
Well, a lot of the book was
talking about communication.

296
00:14:26,787 --> 00:14:30,477
And if you read the first
story, there was a dyer.

297
00:14:31,287 --> 00:14:33,717
Consequence which was suicide.

298
00:14:34,227 --> 00:14:38,097
And that was because
of that communication.

299
00:14:38,307 --> 00:14:40,317
There happened to be a physician involved.

300
00:14:40,757 --> 00:14:47,447
And the physician really was, uh, uh, the
word escapes me that I want right now.

301
00:14:47,627 --> 00:14:54,047
But, uh, he threw people under the
bus and again, that consequences and

302
00:14:54,047 --> 00:14:58,097
there was no communication or dialogue
between the male and the female.

303
00:14:58,147 --> 00:15:00,097
So communication is very important.

304
00:15:00,097 --> 00:15:04,087
By the way, when I wrote the book, I
noticed at the end of the first, uh,

305
00:15:04,087 --> 00:15:10,097
story that I said profits would be
shared with the suicide hotline society.

306
00:15:10,367 --> 00:15:11,027
Yeah, I noticed that.

307
00:15:11,027 --> 00:15:12,107
And that was, that was great.

308
00:15:12,137 --> 00:15:12,197
Yeah.

309
00:15:13,307 --> 00:15:18,617
Yeah, it was, that was the reason I
started the book was for that story.

310
00:15:18,617 --> 00:15:22,397
And that story was one I
thought could be a Netflix or

311
00:15:22,397 --> 00:15:25,307
an Amazon Prime hour, uh, story.

312
00:15:26,597 --> 00:15:31,047
And it had a it had a humor in it, but
it had dire consequences and it had some

313
00:15:31,047 --> 00:15:32,442
lessons I thought people could learn.

314
00:15:33,472 --> 00:15:35,692
But then one story just sat by itself.

315
00:15:35,962 --> 00:15:40,882
It was like this tiny p on an irony board,
and I said, well, let me beef it up.

316
00:15:40,882 --> 00:15:42,112
So I'll write five stories.

317
00:15:42,112 --> 00:15:44,812
And five went to 10 and 10 went to 12.

318
00:15:44,812 --> 00:15:46,912
And that at 12, I said, that's it.

319
00:15:47,272 --> 00:15:50,182
The 12 story was always
gonna be the last story.

320
00:15:50,282 --> 00:15:52,472
So that was it.

321
00:15:52,472 --> 00:15:53,972
But in the middle of the night, one night.

322
00:15:54,562 --> 00:15:58,852
I woke up and I said, oh my God, I have
another story to tell in the morning.

323
00:15:58,852 --> 00:16:01,732
I said to my wife, Hey
hun, I got another story.

324
00:16:01,792 --> 00:16:02,752
And she said, you can't.

325
00:16:02,992 --> 00:16:04,132
I said, what?

326
00:16:04,132 --> 00:16:06,352
She said, it's a 13 story.

327
00:16:06,352 --> 00:16:06,922
I said, yeah.

328
00:16:06,922 --> 00:16:09,142
She said, you can't, it's 12 or 14.

329
00:16:09,142 --> 00:16:10,312
You can't do 13.

330
00:16:10,732 --> 00:16:15,772
I, it's 13, but I, I went
back, I went back and sandwich

331
00:16:15,772 --> 00:16:18,082
stood in between 10 and 11.

332
00:16:18,202 --> 00:16:23,932
And, uh, so 12 was, again, that
was, or 13 was always gonna be

333
00:16:23,932 --> 00:16:29,992
that last story where Butch's wife
discovers her own experiences.

334
00:16:30,092 --> 00:16:30,632
Okay.

335
00:16:30,662 --> 00:16:31,112
Wow.

336
00:16:31,352 --> 00:16:34,642
Well, you know, during that era
flirting and sexual expression

337
00:16:34,642 --> 00:16:35,912
were acts of rebellion.

338
00:16:35,962 --> 00:16:39,502
And I know I, from the reading that
I've done that's always been the case.

339
00:16:39,712 --> 00:16:40,702
Swingers today.

340
00:16:40,702 --> 00:16:44,272
How can they bring back that same
kind of playfulness instead of just

341
00:16:44,272 --> 00:16:45,952
getting stuck in like rules anxiety?

342
00:16:45,952 --> 00:16:50,012
We brought up rules earlier in the
show, and I feel like a lot of us are

343
00:16:50,012 --> 00:16:52,142
just kind of stuck to a rule book.

344
00:16:52,382 --> 00:16:56,132
We get contacted all the time
with people saying, I don't know

345
00:16:56,132 --> 00:16:58,172
how, how can we be swingers?

346
00:16:58,172 --> 00:16:59,282
Like how do we do this?

347
00:16:59,522 --> 00:17:01,262
And to me the answer's very simple.

348
00:17:01,262 --> 00:17:04,952
It's like you, you need to stop asking
questions and just do, you know,

349
00:17:04,952 --> 00:17:07,202
like go out there and meet people.

350
00:17:07,202 --> 00:17:12,662
And, and so I, I have a bit of a fluidity
to, to the way I like to do things.

351
00:17:13,002 --> 00:17:15,832
What's a good way to kind of
bring that back, you think?

352
00:17:17,272 --> 00:17:18,502
I don't think we can bring it back.

353
00:17:20,332 --> 00:17:22,162
There's, I, there's no
way to bring it back.

354
00:17:22,642 --> 00:17:29,342
And, uh, people do have their hookups
nowadays, and it unfortunately they

355
00:17:29,342 --> 00:17:35,152
become, uh, emotional then that's not
what my about or the book is about,

356
00:17:35,662 --> 00:17:39,292
but I don't think there's a way to put
the genie back in the bottle today.

357
00:17:40,847 --> 00:17:42,952
Likewise, I think it's cool that.

358
00:17:43,522 --> 00:17:48,082
There are, it's open, there's
open expressions now about

359
00:17:48,292 --> 00:17:49,822
monogamy, non-monogamy.

360
00:17:50,402 --> 00:17:52,952
You can't watch tv.

361
00:17:53,417 --> 00:17:58,187
For a week, probably different
programs without hearing about

362
00:17:58,187 --> 00:18:00,497
a swinger or a swingers club.

363
00:18:00,497 --> 00:18:00,557
Yeah.

364
00:18:01,007 --> 00:18:02,837
Or about monogamy or non-monogamy.

365
00:18:02,837 --> 00:18:02,897
Yeah.

366
00:18:02,927 --> 00:18:05,337
So it's out there.

367
00:18:05,517 --> 00:18:15,327
And every study that I've seen in the
last five years about sex, the, one of the

368
00:18:15,327 --> 00:18:18,147
top three topics is about non-monogamy.

369
00:18:19,137 --> 00:18:21,687
Now the new term is hot wifeing.

370
00:18:21,777 --> 00:18:23,637
That's become the new term.

371
00:18:24,027 --> 00:18:29,427
And of course, menage a tois is always
a, you know, in the, in the top three.

372
00:18:29,907 --> 00:18:33,597
And, uh, I hope you read about
the corkscrew and how Butch.

373
00:18:34,362 --> 00:18:36,552
Discover a new position
called the Corkscrew.

374
00:18:38,502 --> 00:18:38,982
We did,

375
00:18:39,912 --> 00:18:40,002
yes.

376
00:18:41,802 --> 00:18:42,732
Try it sometime.

377
00:18:43,732 --> 00:18:43,882
We're

378
00:18:43,882 --> 00:18:45,022
gonna pause real quick.

379
00:18:47,962 --> 00:18:49,492
Well, you need a third person.

380
00:18:49,702 --> 00:18:49,792
I know

381
00:18:50,512 --> 00:18:53,812
there's, there was a lot to learn
from the book, I'll tell you that.

382
00:18:53,902 --> 00:18:54,082
Yeah.

383
00:18:54,112 --> 00:18:56,662
Uh, you know, I, I think
it's really cool that.

384
00:18:57,207 --> 00:18:59,307
You know, you didn't just write
about it, but you lived it.

385
00:18:59,427 --> 00:18:59,577
Mm-hmm.

386
00:18:59,817 --> 00:19:04,317
And, and I think that's, that says a lot
because, uh, you know, in the world that

387
00:19:04,317 --> 00:19:08,277
we live in, there are a lot of people
who want to talk about it, but never

388
00:19:08,277 --> 00:19:11,157
have really tried certain aspects of it.

389
00:19:11,157 --> 00:19:15,297
There was one person that we talked
to that didn't even, even though

390
00:19:15,297 --> 00:19:18,747
they did what Swingers do, they
said, well, I'm not a part of that.

391
00:19:19,057 --> 00:19:19,657
Community.

392
00:19:19,657 --> 00:19:21,487
Like, that's not my, that's not my thing.

393
00:19:21,487 --> 00:19:23,347
Like I just, I just do it occasionally.

394
00:19:23,707 --> 00:19:26,887
I thought something was interesting
though, Sam and I, I, I wanted to ask you

395
00:19:26,887 --> 00:19:31,897
about it because right now in, I guess
the, the sexual phase that we're living

396
00:19:31,897 --> 00:19:35,977
in communication obviously is the number
one thing that we always talk about.

397
00:19:35,977 --> 00:19:37,237
But the other thing is consent.

398
00:19:37,687 --> 00:19:39,337
Uh, consent is very, very big.

399
00:19:39,757 --> 00:19:43,447
We talk about it when we go to
clubs, when we go to house parties,

400
00:19:43,447 --> 00:19:44,287
you know, this sort of thing.

401
00:19:44,347 --> 00:19:51,107
And there's been several times where
consent has not been obtained and

402
00:19:51,137 --> 00:19:55,167
things have happened, as far as back
then, I mean, o obviously with its

403
00:19:55,167 --> 00:20:00,717
fluidity and, you know, that that sort
of thing, was consent even a thing?

404
00:20:00,777 --> 00:20:03,357
Uh, I mean, obviously
you'd have to get a yes.

405
00:20:03,357 --> 00:20:05,517
I mean, but was it what it is today?

406
00:20:06,517 --> 00:20:10,452
Butch's encounters were all natural.

407
00:20:10,692 --> 00:20:10,782
Yeah.

408
00:20:11,562 --> 00:20:17,502
And so there was a fluidity to
going from first base to home plate.

409
00:20:19,962 --> 00:20:27,252
So consent was not on the table
because it was just a natural a flow.

410
00:20:28,677 --> 00:20:34,107
If I were in my twenties, thirties,
forties, fifties today, it'd

411
00:20:34,107 --> 00:20:38,517
scare the hell out of me yeah, to
proceed with an sexual encounter.

412
00:20:39,507 --> 00:20:44,057
Like if I met somebody and I thought
things were going well and there was

413
00:20:44,562 --> 00:20:51,747
some, uh, communication or some feelings
of sexuality between us, I don't

414
00:20:51,747 --> 00:20:53,247
know how I would approach it today.

415
00:20:54,372 --> 00:20:57,977
You know, I gotta stop
and ask are we doing this?

416
00:20:57,977 --> 00:20:59,717
Is this okay with you?

417
00:20:59,897 --> 00:21:01,307
It's nerve wracking, Sam.

418
00:21:01,457 --> 00:21:02,507
It is nerve wracking.

419
00:21:03,917 --> 00:21:04,427
Yeah.

420
00:21:04,697 --> 00:21:04,937
Yeah.

421
00:21:04,987 --> 00:21:11,227
It's, it takes, I don't wanna say it
takes the fun out of it, but you have

422
00:21:11,227 --> 00:21:13,507
to do that today without question.

423
00:21:13,957 --> 00:21:14,047
Yeah.

424
00:21:14,077 --> 00:21:20,557
Um, and again, going back then, you
know, Butch had these encounters and, uh.

425
00:21:22,477 --> 00:21:27,787
Most of them, all of them
practically were brought to him.

426
00:21:27,817 --> 00:21:28,297
I mean mm-hmm.

427
00:21:29,077 --> 00:21:30,247
The women came down to him.

428
00:21:30,787 --> 00:21:31,087
Yeah.

429
00:21:31,357 --> 00:21:31,567
Yeah.

430
00:21:31,617 --> 00:21:32,337
So.

431
00:21:33,162 --> 00:21:33,792
Again,

432
00:21:34,792 --> 00:21:39,562
so the consent part was, I guess I had
to consent to what they wanted to do.

433
00:21:40,562 --> 00:21:40,802
I mean,

434
00:21:40,882 --> 00:21:46,037
I, I, I like that you're seeing the, the
way it, it's all changing now, so it's,

435
00:21:46,037 --> 00:21:47,807
it is very different and you are right.

436
00:21:47,807 --> 00:21:48,857
We can't go back.

437
00:21:49,667 --> 00:21:50,087
But

438
00:21:50,137 --> 00:21:53,917
We've grown up in, in, with
our feet in both fires.

439
00:21:53,947 --> 00:21:58,897
Yeah, because we grew up in the, you know,
Pris grew up in, in the late seventies,

440
00:21:58,897 --> 00:22:02,407
early eighties, and I grew up through the,
throughout the eighties and of course.

441
00:22:03,622 --> 00:22:07,682
Consent was not as a big
a deal in the eighties.

442
00:22:07,682 --> 00:22:07,742
Yeah.

443
00:22:07,892 --> 00:22:11,462
And even some of, some of the early
nineties, it was, it was like, you know,

444
00:22:11,462 --> 00:22:14,342
we grew up watching these movies and
it was like, you just go up to the girl

445
00:22:14,342 --> 00:22:17,972
and you kiss her and you, you know,
you go, you swoon, you get her to swoon

446
00:22:17,972 --> 00:22:19,232
and then you take her to the bedroom.

447
00:22:19,232 --> 00:22:21,452
You know, like there's no questions asked.

448
00:22:21,452 --> 00:22:26,642
And, and, and the idea was that women
liked men who were take charge and

449
00:22:26,642 --> 00:22:28,112
you just go over there and you just.

450
00:22:28,317 --> 00:22:29,307
You just kiss her.

451
00:22:29,547 --> 00:22:29,787
Yeah.

452
00:22:29,787 --> 00:22:30,267
You know what I mean?

453
00:22:30,417 --> 00:22:31,827
Now it is not like that.

454
00:22:31,827 --> 00:22:38,407
No, it, I mean, I, I'm, I was raised very
differently, that can't happen at all.

455
00:22:38,702 --> 00:22:38,922
No.

456
00:22:38,992 --> 00:22:40,032
Consent is very big.

457
00:22:40,167 --> 00:22:40,377
I mean, we're

458
00:22:40,377 --> 00:22:42,687
raising kids, you know, we are
raising kids and we tell our boy,

459
00:22:42,687 --> 00:22:45,567
we have boys and I, and I always,
and we have daughters also.

460
00:22:45,567 --> 00:22:50,157
But I always tell my boys it's like
if de say, if they say no, it's no.

461
00:22:50,247 --> 00:22:51,592
And that's just the way it is like.

462
00:22:52,257 --> 00:22:54,507
There's, you can cry about it later.

463
00:22:54,807 --> 00:22:55,047
Yeah.

464
00:22:55,047 --> 00:22:59,292
But so the hard part was and going
back to what you said Sam was you

465
00:22:59,292 --> 00:23:00,702
know, it's, it's nerve wracking.

466
00:23:01,002 --> 00:23:04,302
And so when we first started,
uh, we've been together 15 years.

467
00:23:04,302 --> 00:23:07,272
We started in the lifestyle
as swingers 14 years ago.

468
00:23:07,722 --> 00:23:13,182
And I remember thinking, how
am I supposed to do this?

469
00:23:13,182 --> 00:23:14,572
Like, I have always thought that.

470
00:23:15,187 --> 00:23:17,857
You go up to the girl and you
grab her and you kiss her, you

471
00:23:17,857 --> 00:23:18,577
know, and that sort of thing.

472
00:23:18,577 --> 00:23:19,897
And you gotta be like
butch and just stand there.

473
00:23:19,957 --> 00:23:20,377
Yeah.

474
00:23:20,647 --> 00:23:24,337
All of a sudden people are lecturing
me and saying, look, you gotta ask man.

475
00:23:24,337 --> 00:23:26,167
Like, you can't touch, you gotta ask.

476
00:23:26,167 --> 00:23:26,407
Yeah.

477
00:23:26,707 --> 00:23:30,547
Uh, and so then I had to figure out how
to be able to ask for consent without I.

478
00:23:31,462 --> 00:23:34,582
Putting a stop to all the, the fun vibe.

479
00:23:34,882 --> 00:23:35,152
Yeah.

480
00:23:35,282 --> 00:23:37,472
And that alone is just exhausting.

481
00:23:39,062 --> 00:23:41,192
You were still, uh, you
were still a gentleman.

482
00:23:41,192 --> 00:23:44,102
I mean, you didn't go up and
grab him by the pussy, did you?

483
00:23:45,477 --> 00:23:45,697
No.

484
00:23:45,932 --> 00:23:46,322
No.

485
00:23:46,322 --> 00:23:47,882
I can't say I've never done that.

486
00:23:50,237 --> 00:23:50,457
No.

487
00:23:51,092 --> 00:23:52,017
You were a gentleman.

488
00:23:52,297 --> 00:23:53,097
I was a gentleman.

489
00:23:53,192 --> 00:23:54,182
I was, I was very

490
00:23:54,182 --> 00:23:54,572
gentle.

491
00:23:54,812 --> 00:23:55,712
I was very gentle.

492
00:23:56,102 --> 00:23:56,402
Yeah.

493
00:23:56,402 --> 00:23:57,662
No, uh, you know, and so that's.

494
00:23:57,887 --> 00:24:02,527
That's always been my, my, uh, I guess my
nerve wracking thing was because we didn't

495
00:24:02,527 --> 00:24:04,567
really technically grow up in that era.

496
00:24:05,077 --> 00:24:08,227
Uh, and you know, there's still some
women out there in the lifestyle

497
00:24:08,227 --> 00:24:11,887
that I've come across that have
been like, don't ask, just do it.

498
00:24:12,217 --> 00:24:12,487
Yeah.

499
00:24:12,732 --> 00:24:13,932
And I'm like, really?

500
00:24:14,292 --> 00:24:15,072
Are you sure?

501
00:24:15,732 --> 00:24:16,662
Are you baiting me?

502
00:24:16,662 --> 00:24:17,442
Because I don't know.

503
00:24:19,017 --> 00:24:19,752
No, no.

504
00:24:19,992 --> 00:24:22,962
Adam, if I hear, just do it,
I'm not gonna ask her twice.

505
00:24:23,962 --> 00:24:24,232
Oh, man.

506
00:24:24,442 --> 00:24:25,042
He does.

507
00:24:25,217 --> 00:24:25,417
I do.

508
00:24:25,762 --> 00:24:29,182
I, you know, I'm Sam, I,
I've got such bad anxiety.

509
00:24:29,182 --> 00:24:32,092
I always feel like I'm gonna say the
wrong thing or do the wrong thing.

510
00:24:32,392 --> 00:24:37,942
And so I'm like a woman will contact
me now and she'll be like, Hey, um.

511
00:24:38,552 --> 00:24:39,602
I think you're attractive.

512
00:24:39,602 --> 00:24:40,902
Let's, we should get together.

513
00:24:40,902 --> 00:24:41,952
Let's, let's play.

514
00:24:42,522 --> 00:24:43,942
And I'm like, are you sure?

515
00:24:44,482 --> 00:24:45,952
Are you sure you want to do that?

516
00:24:45,952 --> 00:24:49,362
Like, have you have you actually
like, looked at everything that

517
00:24:49,362 --> 00:24:50,952
I've said in this conversation?

518
00:24:50,952 --> 00:24:53,017
Like, are you sure you wanna do this?

519
00:24:53,317 --> 00:24:59,737
And then I forget that a lot of times
some women just transactional, just like

520
00:24:59,737 --> 00:25:01,207
some men are transactional, they just,

521
00:25:01,212 --> 00:25:01,312
yeah.

522
00:25:02,197 --> 00:25:04,482
Jump in there and, and
get it, get it going.

523
00:25:05,082 --> 00:25:05,622
I don't ask for

524
00:25:05,622 --> 00:25:05,922
permission.

525
00:25:05,922 --> 00:25:10,127
You talk, you talk about anxiety
and one of the, uh, I tried to have

526
00:25:10,127 --> 00:25:14,807
a lot of lessons in the book and
one of them, and they're subtle.

527
00:25:15,527 --> 00:25:18,077
This is probably an example
why I say there's subtle.

528
00:25:18,567 --> 00:25:23,367
There was an event where, uh,
Butch was took his father to have

529
00:25:23,367 --> 00:25:25,557
some test medical tests in Boston.

530
00:25:25,557 --> 00:25:29,067
And so staying in a hotel and, um.

531
00:25:30,747 --> 00:25:32,337
There was a woman at a bar.

532
00:25:32,397 --> 00:25:36,327
Butch was at the bar after he had
finished, uh, his, his dinner,

533
00:25:37,077 --> 00:25:40,767
and he could see her looking
through the glass, looking over.

534
00:25:40,767 --> 00:25:46,047
So he buys her drink and then they start
talking and then they go up to his room.

535
00:25:47,847 --> 00:25:51,327
I would say Butch was probably
about maybe 35 years old.

536
00:25:51,777 --> 00:25:54,027
And, uh, she was like 22 years old.

537
00:25:54,267 --> 00:25:56,847
Found out she was a,
uh, telephone operator.

538
00:25:57,417 --> 00:25:58,617
Where do you see those today?

539
00:25:58,857 --> 00:25:58,977
Right.

540
00:25:59,667 --> 00:26:05,397
Said she was a part-time model and, uh,
so things started to progress in the

541
00:26:05,397 --> 00:26:09,627
room to where they're go hitting the bed.

542
00:26:09,657 --> 00:26:12,267
They're both naked, hitting the bed and.

543
00:26:14,037 --> 00:26:19,332
Is not, it's not working,
it just isn't working.

544
00:26:20,157 --> 00:26:25,067
And so Butch's favorite maneuver,
probably what made him infamous to get

545
00:26:25,067 --> 00:26:27,887
referrals was he was good going down.

546
00:26:27,887 --> 00:26:28,347
There you go.

547
00:26:30,167 --> 00:26:31,787
There's a lot of that still.

548
00:26:31,787 --> 00:26:34,307
So I have met plenty of butches

549
00:26:34,402 --> 00:26:38,122
so it's like, okay, let's
do the never fail move.

550
00:26:38,302 --> 00:26:38,692
That's right.

551
00:26:38,692 --> 00:26:39,767
And, but, and.

552
00:26:40,507 --> 00:26:41,767
It ain't happening.

553
00:26:42,127 --> 00:26:45,737
So she got incensed, am I not good enough?

554
00:26:45,737 --> 00:26:47,057
Am I not pretty enough?

555
00:26:47,057 --> 00:26:52,337
And, and then he tried to explain,
he's got his father in the hospital.

556
00:26:52,637 --> 00:26:58,697
He's, uh, got a client back home who
he's working on a very big case for.

557
00:26:59,507 --> 00:27:02,807
So he had real stress.

558
00:27:03,737 --> 00:27:07,247
He had two or three things going on in
his life that were really stressful.

559
00:27:08,087 --> 00:27:08,177
Mm-hmm.

560
00:27:08,417 --> 00:27:11,237
And even in the heat of what?

561
00:27:11,672 --> 00:27:13,412
Normally it would've been a great time.

562
00:27:13,982 --> 00:27:14,882
It wasn't working.

563
00:27:14,882 --> 00:27:19,442
So, the message in the book is if a
woman's reading the book and she ever

564
00:27:19,712 --> 00:27:24,872
encounters a guy who has a problem, don't
think it's you, don't put it on yourself.

565
00:27:25,082 --> 00:27:25,172
Yeah.

566
00:27:25,382 --> 00:27:27,092
We actually show about that.

567
00:27:27,152 --> 00:27:27,452
Yeah.

568
00:27:27,452 --> 00:27:31,292
Not too long ago, because I had,
I had a situation like that.

569
00:27:31,292 --> 00:27:36,197
You know, I, I am not because of my
anxiety it, this is contradictory,

570
00:27:36,197 --> 00:27:37,967
but I have social anxiety.

571
00:27:38,687 --> 00:27:40,337
But I'm also an exhibitionist.

572
00:27:40,637 --> 00:27:43,487
And so we like to put on shows
in front of other people.

573
00:27:43,487 --> 00:27:47,507
We'll go to the club and there's a row of
beds in the, in the center mass there, and

574
00:27:47,507 --> 00:27:49,217
we just get it on in front of everybody.

575
00:27:50,027 --> 00:27:55,767
But one day we got called over to,
uh, one of the little cubbies there,

576
00:27:55,767 --> 00:27:58,437
there was a couple, a couple over
there that they were having fun.

577
00:27:58,437 --> 00:28:03,147
They were, and they waved us over and
I didn't really know them very well.

578
00:28:03,147 --> 00:28:06,447
Pris had known them a little bit
and she was like, Hey, come on.

579
00:28:06,447 --> 00:28:06,897
Let's go.

580
00:28:06,897 --> 00:28:07,587
Let's have fun.

581
00:28:08,607 --> 00:28:09,327
Okay, cool.

582
00:28:09,327 --> 00:28:09,807
Why not?

583
00:28:09,867 --> 00:28:13,197
I'm already, we were just
playing, so I'm, I'm good to go.

584
00:28:13,197 --> 00:28:16,077
I think I can just naturally
slip into this other one.

585
00:28:16,077 --> 00:28:16,137
Um.

586
00:28:17,997 --> 00:28:19,227
It did not happen that way.

587
00:28:19,647 --> 00:28:24,507
And so once I started getting into
it with this other woman, something

588
00:28:24,507 --> 00:28:26,607
happened and it just did not work.

589
00:28:26,707 --> 00:28:30,817
And so, you know, I, I worked
as hard as I could to, you

590
00:28:30,817 --> 00:28:32,527
know, I gave myself three tries.

591
00:28:32,847 --> 00:28:34,347
Three strikes and then that's it.

592
00:28:34,347 --> 00:28:34,767
I'm out.

593
00:28:35,337 --> 00:28:36,267
And by the third,

594
00:28:36,447 --> 00:28:37,167
no, you're not in.

595
00:28:38,822 --> 00:28:39,582
I was never in.

596
00:28:41,937 --> 00:28:44,007
And so by the third time I
was like, you know what guys?

597
00:28:44,007 --> 00:28:45,057
Y'all have a good time.

598
00:28:45,057 --> 00:28:46,587
I said, this is not gonna work for me.

599
00:28:46,587 --> 00:28:48,337
It's just I need more connection.

600
00:28:48,607 --> 00:28:51,857
And I think what it is, is I.
I like to know that the person

601
00:28:51,857 --> 00:28:53,687
that I'm playing with wants me.

602
00:28:54,177 --> 00:28:56,367
'Cause that's kind of what turns me on.

603
00:28:56,827 --> 00:29:01,207
And I, I've thought about this leading up
to this interview, Sam, I, I don't know

604
00:29:01,207 --> 00:29:04,777
how well I would have been back then.

605
00:29:04,867 --> 00:29:05,137
No.

606
00:29:05,257 --> 00:29:09,757
Uh, because of that, like, I, I, you know,
I don't know how well I could perform

607
00:29:09,757 --> 00:29:12,547
just on the fly and be like, Hey, me, you.

608
00:29:13,087 --> 00:29:14,737
In this room, let's get it.

609
00:29:15,067 --> 00:29:15,637
You know what I mean?

610
00:29:15,637 --> 00:29:17,917
Like, that would be very difficult for me.

611
00:29:19,717 --> 00:29:20,257
You gotta go to the

612
00:29:20,257 --> 00:29:20,677
move.

613
00:29:21,277 --> 00:29:23,047
I gotta, I have to do the butch move.

614
00:29:23,047 --> 00:29:23,317
Yeah.

615
00:29:24,487 --> 00:29:25,297
Immediately go.

616
00:29:25,297 --> 00:29:26,647
And that's a great move to go to.

617
00:29:26,647 --> 00:29:27,067
It is.

618
00:29:27,102 --> 00:29:27,402
It is.

619
00:29:27,402 --> 00:29:30,097
Uh, but that was something that
we had talked about because, uh,

620
00:29:30,097 --> 00:29:32,827
I had to let my lady friend No.

621
00:29:32,897 --> 00:29:36,012
And basically all women know, and my
wife had to learn the hard way too is.

622
00:29:37,157 --> 00:29:39,617
When that happens, it's not about you.

623
00:29:39,857 --> 00:29:40,997
Yeah, it's about me.

624
00:29:41,297 --> 00:29:41,477
Yeah.

625
00:29:41,507 --> 00:29:44,387
It's not that I don't find you
attractive, it's not that this isn't

626
00:29:44,387 --> 00:29:45,857
a hot scenario or anything like that.

627
00:29:45,857 --> 00:29:48,077
It's things in my own head.

628
00:29:48,387 --> 00:29:50,847
You know, there's been times where
she's told me in the morning for a

629
00:29:50,847 --> 00:29:52,467
quickie, she's like, Hey, hurry up.

630
00:29:52,467 --> 00:29:53,037
We gotta go.

631
00:29:53,037 --> 00:29:54,147
I, I gotta go to work.

632
00:29:54,417 --> 00:29:57,177
And then I'm looking at the
clock and then I'm like, yeah,

633
00:29:57,267 --> 00:29:58,587
this is, this isn't gonna work.

634
00:29:58,587 --> 00:30:00,747
Like, I can't, it's
just too much pressure.

635
00:30:00,777 --> 00:30:01,437
I can't do it.

636
00:30:02,637 --> 00:30:03,567
Yeah, it's, uh.

637
00:30:04,102 --> 00:30:06,052
Sam, I'm just, I'm a mess man.

638
00:30:06,292 --> 00:30:06,922
I'm a mess.

639
00:30:07,922 --> 00:30:09,812
So I'm taking a lot from your book.

640
00:30:09,812 --> 00:30:10,532
I can tell you that.

641
00:30:10,577 --> 00:30:11,117
I'm trying, yes.

642
00:30:11,117 --> 00:30:16,772
I'm trying to incorporate some,
because I think even though, uh, like

643
00:30:16,772 --> 00:30:21,002
you said, uh, a lot of the aspects
of the way things were back then, uh.

644
00:30:21,452 --> 00:30:22,712
Just can't make it out here.

645
00:30:22,772 --> 00:30:27,212
I think there are some aspects, uh,
that can still make it out here.

646
00:30:27,227 --> 00:30:31,712
I, I, I believe that there are, uh, some
women and some men that I have met that

647
00:30:31,712 --> 00:30:37,342
really kind of have that makeup and, uh,
I've always referred to it as the, uh.

648
00:30:38,232 --> 00:30:40,242
The hippie vibe, you know what I mean?

649
00:30:40,247 --> 00:30:40,527
Mm-hmm.

650
00:30:40,607 --> 00:30:40,962
Like everything mm-hmm.

651
00:30:41,202 --> 00:30:45,732
Is just, everything is fluid
and we're in the moment and

652
00:30:45,732 --> 00:30:47,202
what are we feeling right now?

653
00:30:47,202 --> 00:30:49,692
And this is the moment that we're
having, let's just go with it,

654
00:30:49,932 --> 00:30:53,142
and I, you know, from a pothead
standpoint, I dig that down.

655
00:30:53,547 --> 00:30:54,427
I did it.

656
00:30:55,117 --> 00:30:56,947
That sounds like a great idea.

657
00:30:57,067 --> 00:30:59,167
Anyway I'm kind of curious.

658
00:30:59,902 --> 00:31:05,152
Your makeup, Sam, as far as back then,
because I only get this Sam to talk to

659
00:31:05,752 --> 00:31:10,492
you know, if you could paint a picture
of of, of the Sam from, uh, from back

660
00:31:10,492 --> 00:31:14,122
then, you know, like, what, what was
this cock of the walk doing back then?

661
00:31:14,122 --> 00:31:17,962
Like, uh, were you sporting the nice
suits of the, of the day and you were,

662
00:31:18,322 --> 00:31:21,292
you know, when your wife said, no, you
can go ahead and have your threesomes.

663
00:31:21,292 --> 00:31:23,632
Like, did you already have go-tos?

664
00:31:24,022 --> 00:31:26,872
Uh, did you have to work on
that to find what you wanted?

665
00:31:28,097 --> 00:31:29,867
No, there was no go-tos.

666
00:31:30,437 --> 00:31:33,497
The idea was go-to in my head.

667
00:31:34,907 --> 00:31:37,607
But I, I had nobody, uh, in mind.

668
00:31:37,607 --> 00:31:37,667
Yeah.

669
00:31:39,427 --> 00:31:45,607
So then, you know, when I took it
after three times, okay, go do it.

670
00:31:45,967 --> 00:31:49,267
It again, it was a natural
thing the way it came about.

671
00:31:50,347 --> 00:31:50,497
Um.

672
00:31:53,497 --> 00:31:58,747
In, uh, in the career that Butch
had, he, uh, he was, uh, a salesman.

673
00:31:59,107 --> 00:32:00,007
He was many things.

674
00:32:00,077 --> 00:32:02,657
He's a Gemini, so he wore many hats.

675
00:32:03,047 --> 00:32:08,297
Uh, he was a coach, he was an athlete,
but, uh, primarily he was a businessman.

676
00:32:09,347 --> 00:32:10,847
And so yeah, dressed well.

677
00:32:10,947 --> 00:32:12,087
I always tried to look good.

678
00:32:12,087 --> 00:32:12,267
Yeah.

679
00:32:12,327 --> 00:32:13,557
I'm 86 years old.

680
00:32:13,767 --> 00:32:18,147
I still, when I get dressed, I want
to dress to please myself Yeah.

681
00:32:18,297 --> 00:32:19,407
To look good going out.

682
00:32:20,247 --> 00:32:22,617
Yeah, I, I dressed kind of high style.

683
00:32:23,427 --> 00:32:26,127
Don't really know what the magic was, but.

684
00:32:27,387 --> 00:32:32,837
I got involved in modeling, not
because I wanted to I did a favor

685
00:32:32,837 --> 00:32:37,457
for a woman who, which again is in
the book who had a modeling agency.

686
00:32:38,597 --> 00:32:41,237
And after the favor she said,
you know, I'd like to have

687
00:32:41,237 --> 00:32:43,127
you do some modeling for me.

688
00:32:43,127 --> 00:32:44,807
And I said, you know, I'm not interested.

689
00:32:44,807 --> 00:32:45,917
I don't have the time.

690
00:32:47,237 --> 00:32:52,427
We exchanged cards, and she called me in
a couple weeks and, said, are you coming?

691
00:32:52,427 --> 00:32:53,807
I said, no, not really.

692
00:32:53,807 --> 00:32:55,067
She said, do me a favor.

693
00:32:55,347 --> 00:32:57,147
And I told her, I said, I
don't wanna embarrass you.

694
00:32:57,147 --> 00:32:59,187
I don't have any training, et cetera.

695
00:32:59,607 --> 00:33:03,127
She said, I need somebody for
a bridal show this weekend.

696
00:33:03,127 --> 00:33:05,857
And so could you put a UX on
and come and do it for her?

697
00:33:05,857 --> 00:33:07,637
I said, okay I'll do that for you.

698
00:33:08,597 --> 00:33:09,317
That was fun.

699
00:33:10,852 --> 00:33:13,102
So that broke the barriers.

700
00:33:13,102 --> 00:33:15,382
So I did some modeling, for several years.

701
00:33:15,382 --> 00:33:21,232
And then as a result of the modeling, I
was asked to judge beauty pageants and I

702
00:33:21,232 --> 00:33:23,752
got involved in judging beauty pageants.

703
00:33:23,752 --> 00:33:28,792
So that led to some exploration and,
and travel a lot of butch's adventures.

704
00:33:29,752 --> 00:33:36,032
I mean, almost all of them were involved
through traveling, but I, what was it?

705
00:33:36,422 --> 00:33:37,082
I don't know.

706
00:33:37,082 --> 00:33:39,212
Did I try and perfect whatever it was?

707
00:33:39,692 --> 00:33:44,012
No, it just, you know, it
just happens to this day.

708
00:33:44,012 --> 00:33:44,402
I dunno.

709
00:33:45,047 --> 00:33:45,407
Wow.

710
00:33:45,947 --> 00:33:47,147
I think you did amazing.

711
00:33:47,147 --> 00:33:47,537
So,

712
00:33:48,377 --> 00:33:51,167
yeah, and you know, you're a sharp looking
guy when you say that you are a model.

713
00:33:51,167 --> 00:33:51,797
I could see that.

714
00:33:51,797 --> 00:33:53,327
I could see you modeling right now, man.

715
00:33:53,327 --> 00:33:55,157
You look great in what you're wearing.

716
00:33:55,247 --> 00:33:55,397
Thanks.

717
00:33:55,607 --> 00:33:58,877
I definitely couldn't pull off a
turtleneck, uh, because I just,

718
00:33:58,877 --> 00:34:00,107
I've tried and I don't know.

719
00:34:00,107 --> 00:34:03,677
I get, I think I have a double
chin and so something happens.

720
00:34:03,707 --> 00:34:04,392
Looks great on you.

721
00:34:04,397 --> 00:34:05,627
Yeah, you look fantastic.

722
00:34:05,927 --> 00:34:06,377
Thanks.

723
00:34:06,657 --> 00:34:09,267
And you know, I said
I'm 86, my wife is 83.

724
00:34:09,517 --> 00:34:10,927
We work out three times a week.

725
00:34:11,017 --> 00:34:11,617
We work out.

726
00:34:12,262 --> 00:34:13,402
With a personal trainer.

727
00:34:14,572 --> 00:34:14,812
That's awesome.

728
00:34:15,142 --> 00:34:18,592
You know, we, we try, we
play, we played tennis.

729
00:34:18,682 --> 00:34:21,412
Now she has some macular degeneration.

730
00:34:21,412 --> 00:34:23,872
So we're, we're, we went to the dark side.

731
00:34:23,872 --> 00:34:25,137
We're trying to play pickleball.

732
00:34:26,032 --> 00:34:26,777
Oh, you do it.

733
00:34:27,142 --> 00:34:28,582
We went to Seattle.

734
00:34:28,582 --> 00:34:30,497
Did you know that that is the pickleball?

735
00:34:30,917 --> 00:34:32,417
That's that's where,
that's where it started.

736
00:34:32,417 --> 00:34:32,857
Started.

737
00:34:33,237 --> 00:34:34,097
That's where it started.

738
00:34:34,197 --> 00:34:35,272
In the Seattle.

739
00:34:35,272 --> 00:34:35,482
Yeah.

740
00:34:35,482 --> 00:34:35,722
They have a

741
00:34:35,722 --> 00:34:36,892
museum and everything.

742
00:34:36,892 --> 00:34:38,332
It was so weird, but I was like.

743
00:34:39,112 --> 00:34:43,942
I thought pick, I thought pickleball
was just, uh, a fake, a fake game that

744
00:34:43,942 --> 00:34:45,502
someone just invented, like, well, I

745
00:34:45,502 --> 00:34:46,432
mean, all games, I

746
00:34:46,432 --> 00:34:47,362
mean, you know what I mean?

747
00:34:48,352 --> 00:34:48,622
Well,

748
00:34:48,922 --> 00:34:49,942
I'm glad you're enjoying It's,

749
00:34:50,662 --> 00:34:51,562
yeah, it's fun.

750
00:34:51,562 --> 00:34:52,582
No question about it.

751
00:34:53,062 --> 00:34:57,952
When I'm talking about our
lifestyle, Uhhuh, we do date

752
00:34:57,952 --> 00:35:00,142
night every Saturday night

753
00:35:00,562 --> 00:35:00,742
really.

754
00:35:02,107 --> 00:35:06,877
So before COVID we would do date night.

755
00:35:06,877 --> 00:35:11,137
So date night was going out,
having dinner, going to a movie.

756
00:35:11,137 --> 00:35:15,067
It had to be sexually oriented
or a romcom, no violence.

757
00:35:15,517 --> 00:35:19,837
And then we'd go to a lounge that was
close to home and we'd have a couple

758
00:35:19,867 --> 00:35:24,517
pops, get to meet a lot of nice people and
get home and finish date night with sex.

759
00:35:25,267 --> 00:35:30,397
COVID hit and a couple weeks went
by and it was like, Hey, hun.

760
00:35:30,742 --> 00:35:31,942
We're not doing date night.

761
00:35:32,212 --> 00:35:33,142
We gotta fix this.

762
00:35:33,622 --> 00:35:41,912
So we started, we making dinner at
home, then turn on Netflix, Amazon

763
00:35:41,912 --> 00:35:44,982
Prime find some sexual content.

764
00:35:45,282 --> 00:35:46,212
There's tons of it.

765
00:35:46,632 --> 00:35:49,002
And guys, I hope one day you're gonna be.

766
00:35:49,827 --> 00:35:53,037
Watching hookups, hiccups,
and happenstances on

767
00:35:53,037 --> 00:35:54,927
Netflix or Amazon or Hulu.

768
00:35:54,927 --> 00:35:55,767
I would love that.

769
00:35:55,827 --> 00:36:00,147
But so halfway through whatever we're
watching, we'll pause it and I'll

770
00:36:00,147 --> 00:36:05,827
make margaritas and then again, when
it's over, jump in bed and, uh, we'll

771
00:36:05,827 --> 00:36:08,557
have sex and you know, it's great.

772
00:36:09,127 --> 00:36:09,297
It's so healthy, man.

773
00:36:09,337 --> 00:36:15,637
Sex is a absolutely, you, you
know the advantages of sex, right?

774
00:36:17,902 --> 00:36:20,272
It can help stress, it
can't help relieve stress.

775
00:36:20,272 --> 00:36:24,952
Yeah, help relieve pain burns
calories improves sleep.

776
00:36:25,282 --> 00:36:30,352
I sleep like a baby Saturday night, I
wanna tell you until Sunday morning.

777
00:36:30,382 --> 00:36:30,562
Oh, man.

778
00:36:31,252 --> 00:36:31,312
Yeah.

779
00:36:31,312 --> 00:36:34,562
I, I, I hibernate you know,
it's funny that you say that.

780
00:36:34,802 --> 00:36:38,992
The date we've attempted to do
that several times and, and we were

781
00:36:38,992 --> 00:36:40,672
pretty good at it for a while there.

782
00:36:40,982 --> 00:36:45,572
When we started this podcast, I, I gotta
say the, the podcast is all consuming.

783
00:36:45,942 --> 00:36:48,672
And you know, it's one of those
things where it's like we, I threw

784
00:36:48,672 --> 00:36:53,202
myself into it and it, it takes up
so much of my time and this and that.

785
00:36:53,502 --> 00:36:57,462
And then we are traveling to do
different events and this and that,

786
00:36:58,032 --> 00:36:59,837
and we have sat back and gone.

787
00:37:00,882 --> 00:37:02,322
When are we doing date night?

788
00:37:02,322 --> 00:37:03,222
Like, you know what?

789
00:37:03,522 --> 00:37:09,192
And so like this past weekend we were at
a, a hotel takeover where they basically,

790
00:37:09,522 --> 00:37:13,752
it's the swingers take over the entire
hotel from the moment you walk in.

791
00:37:13,752 --> 00:37:16,182
They have the doors kind
of shaded closed off.

792
00:37:16,182 --> 00:37:18,642
People are walking around
naked and lingerie.

793
00:37:19,032 --> 00:37:22,452
Uh, you get a room, you, you're there for
the entire weekend and there's a bunch

794
00:37:22,452 --> 00:37:24,462
of festivities that are going downstairs.

795
00:37:24,912 --> 00:37:27,282
That was our opportunity to.

796
00:37:28,182 --> 00:37:32,382
Basically have a love fest and, and
have fun with every single person.

797
00:37:32,412 --> 00:37:35,652
You know, we were there to do a
live podcast on a Saturday, and

798
00:37:35,652 --> 00:37:38,292
so when we checked in Friday,
people already knew who we were.

799
00:37:38,292 --> 00:37:39,402
We could have had a lot of fun.

800
00:37:39,642 --> 00:37:40,512
You know what we did?

801
00:37:41,142 --> 00:37:44,832
We stayed in the room the entire weekend.

802
00:37:45,597 --> 00:37:48,132
And we literally just I,
she stayed in my arms.

803
00:37:48,132 --> 00:37:49,722
We watched TV and that was our

804
00:37:49,782 --> 00:37:50,292
Okay.

805
00:37:50,532 --> 00:37:51,162
Two of you.

806
00:37:51,312 --> 00:37:51,522
Yeah.

807
00:37:51,522 --> 00:37:51,762
Yeah.

808
00:37:51,792 --> 00:37:52,062
Yes.

809
00:37:52,092 --> 00:37:52,242
Yeah.

810
00:37:52,542 --> 00:37:54,127
But that was a, that was great.

811
00:37:54,127 --> 00:37:54,312
That was great.

812
00:37:54,312 --> 00:37:55,032
That was great.

813
00:37:55,032 --> 00:37:56,082
That was great.

814
00:37:56,082 --> 00:37:59,592
And, and we, we have a house full
of children, so it's anytime we

815
00:37:59,592 --> 00:38:06,102
can get it in our quiet time, our
alone time, we make the best of it.

816
00:38:06,102 --> 00:38:06,672
I initially

817
00:38:06,672 --> 00:38:10,182
felt bad about it 'cause I was like, you
know, how often are we here at a, at a

818
00:38:10,182 --> 00:38:12,192
hotel takeover in this kind of situation?

819
00:38:12,192 --> 00:38:13,302
But at the same time, I was like.

820
00:38:13,917 --> 00:38:16,407
I, I need this, and I feel
like she needs this too.

821
00:38:16,797 --> 00:38:16,947
Yeah.

822
00:38:17,182 --> 00:38:19,857
I, I, you know, our relationship
has always been our number

823
00:38:19,857 --> 00:38:21,867
one priority over everything.

824
00:38:22,317 --> 00:38:26,547
And uh, you know, I think that's
really something that we try to

825
00:38:26,577 --> 00:38:31,347
bring up in almost every show
besides communication is that.

826
00:38:32,487 --> 00:38:35,397
You need to really put everything
you have into your relationship.

827
00:38:35,452 --> 00:38:39,082
You could have looked at it afterwards
and said, geez, we spent all that money

828
00:38:39,262 --> 00:38:40,552
when we could have done this at home.

829
00:38:40,762 --> 00:38:42,172
But it wasn't home.

830
00:38:42,202 --> 00:38:42,652
It was,

831
00:38:42,952 --> 00:38:43,617
it wasn't a

832
00:38:43,697 --> 00:38:45,112
a, a new feeling.

833
00:38:45,112 --> 00:38:46,772
A new, new surroundings.

834
00:38:47,162 --> 00:38:47,222
Yeah.

835
00:38:47,222 --> 00:38:47,427
And I'll, and I'll take it.

836
00:38:47,427 --> 00:38:48,362
You needed that to the next,

837
00:38:48,362 --> 00:38:49,742
I'll take it to the next level, Sam.

838
00:38:50,222 --> 00:38:51,152
We didn't have to pay for.

839
00:38:51,152 --> 00:38:51,312
It worked.

840
00:38:52,292 --> 00:38:53,537
We, it was even better.

841
00:38:53,537 --> 00:38:55,997
We were, we were part of the
entertainment, so it worked out.

842
00:38:55,997 --> 00:38:58,697
So, yeah, no, it was, it was really
great and it was a great event.

843
00:38:58,697 --> 00:39:02,567
We got to really see some cool stuff
and be around a lot of great people.

844
00:39:02,567 --> 00:39:04,427
But when it came down to it.

845
00:39:05,187 --> 00:39:07,197
Yeah, we just, we stayed in the room.

846
00:39:07,197 --> 00:39:09,357
We ate our fast food junk food.

847
00:39:09,927 --> 00:39:13,377
We, and we ended the night with
sex and we slept amazingly.

848
00:39:13,377 --> 00:39:13,947
It was nice.

849
00:39:14,217 --> 00:39:14,937
Yeah.

850
00:39:14,942 --> 00:39:15,717
Yeah, definitely.

851
00:39:15,717 --> 00:39:18,207
What, what state do you guys live in?

852
00:39:18,927 --> 00:39:19,527
Texas.

853
00:39:19,617 --> 00:39:19,977
Yeah.

854
00:39:20,247 --> 00:39:20,997
In Texas?

855
00:39:21,207 --> 00:39:21,447
Yeah.

856
00:39:21,452 --> 00:39:21,582
Okay.

857
00:39:22,487 --> 00:39:22,787
Yeah.

858
00:39:22,877 --> 00:39:26,717
Have you ever been to Fantasy Fest
in, in Florida, key West Florida?

859
00:39:26,717 --> 00:39:27,167
No.

860
00:39:27,527 --> 00:39:27,767
No.

861
00:39:27,767 --> 00:39:29,207
I've heard, I've heard of it.

862
00:39:29,477 --> 00:39:30,107
I have not.

863
00:39:30,167 --> 00:39:30,827
I've heard of it.

864
00:39:30,827 --> 00:39:31,757
I've never been.

865
00:39:31,757 --> 00:39:32,867
We've never been though.

866
00:39:33,137 --> 00:39:34,937
We're starting to do some traveling, so

867
00:39:35,297 --> 00:39:35,507
yeah.

868
00:39:35,507 --> 00:39:37,212
20. Is that something
that we should look into?

869
00:39:38,282 --> 00:39:39,527
You got that spot on your face?

870
00:39:39,527 --> 00:39:39,537
Well,

871
00:39:42,092 --> 00:39:45,482
we did Fantasy Fest
probably 8, 8, 9 years.

872
00:39:45,872 --> 00:39:49,412
So, uh, I, you know, I, you
think I can recommend it?

873
00:39:50,732 --> 00:39:50,762
Okay.

874
00:39:50,762 --> 00:39:51,302
Well now I'm

875
00:39:51,302 --> 00:39:52,142
gonna get on the computer.

876
00:39:52,142 --> 00:39:53,522
I'm gonna find out I to look at it.

877
00:39:54,252 --> 00:39:58,852
But then if you put it on your,
uh, wishlist and you're gonna go,

878
00:39:58,912 --> 00:40:00,592
you gotta talk to me before you go.

879
00:40:00,772 --> 00:40:01,132
Okay.

880
00:40:01,477 --> 00:40:02,167
That's a deal.

881
00:40:02,227 --> 00:40:02,857
Yeah, definitely.

882
00:40:03,067 --> 00:40:05,137
We're gonna, we're gonna try
and get this thing linked up.

883
00:40:05,137 --> 00:40:06,757
We're gonna have you
back on the show, Sam.

884
00:40:06,757 --> 00:40:06,907
Yes.

885
00:40:06,907 --> 00:40:07,747
So we can talk about it.

886
00:40:09,667 --> 00:40:12,667
Well, with that, I appreciate
you, uh, Sam, I appreciate

887
00:40:12,667 --> 00:40:13,867
you joining us for the show.

888
00:40:13,997 --> 00:40:17,867
I love the conversations like this because
it, it's wild realizing how much of what

889
00:40:17,867 --> 00:40:21,707
we call modern really started decades ago.

890
00:40:21,797 --> 00:40:23,837
And of course, that's the
wonderful book right there.

891
00:40:23,837 --> 00:40:24,197
That's right.

892
00:40:24,197 --> 00:40:25,307
Hey, we got it right here too.

893
00:40:25,367 --> 00:40:25,547
Yep.

894
00:40:26,182 --> 00:40:28,272
SamLFeldman.com

895
00:40:28,502 --> 00:40:28,712
There

896
00:40:28,712 --> 00:40:28,862
you go.

897
00:40:28,862 --> 00:40:30,152
Feldman com.

898
00:40:30,402 --> 00:40:30,562
You know.

899
00:40:31,377 --> 00:40:36,267
Sam's book, hookups, hiccups,
and Happenstances Nails that mix

900
00:40:36,267 --> 00:40:37,857
of sexy, funny, and reflective.

901
00:40:38,067 --> 00:40:40,467
It's like reading the origin
story of everything we've

902
00:40:40,467 --> 00:40:41,997
talked about on Beyond Monogamy.

903
00:40:42,057 --> 00:40:44,727
Yeah, and if you haven't checked
it out, go grab yourself a copy.

904
00:40:45,027 --> 00:40:45,967
We'll have the link up up.

905
00:40:46,162 --> 00:40:47,242
On our website.

906
00:40:47,242 --> 00:40:47,692
So yes,

907
00:40:47,752 --> 00:40:50,872
and our show, our show notes,
everything will be listed there.

908
00:40:51,172 --> 00:40:56,302
Uh, speaking of which, go to
www.beyondmonogamy.com for all our

909
00:40:56,302 --> 00:41:00,382
episodes, blogs, merch, and so much
more, including our guest bio of

910
00:41:00,382 --> 00:41:02,152
our yes, of our friend Sam here.

911
00:41:02,422 --> 00:41:05,632
Uh, and that's gonna have all of his,
uh, book information there as well.

912
00:41:05,632 --> 00:41:06,142
Great.

913
00:41:06,142 --> 00:41:09,532
And don't forget to drop your own
wild and hilarious lifestyle stories

914
00:41:09,532 --> 00:41:11,242
in the beyond Monogamy confessional.

915
00:41:11,242 --> 00:41:12,622
You can stay anonymous and.

916
00:41:12,977 --> 00:41:15,557
We might feature it in
our upcoming episode.

917
00:41:15,557 --> 00:41:16,067
That's right.

918
00:41:16,067 --> 00:41:18,527
I actually have another quickie episode
where we're gonna have a couple fun.

919
00:41:18,527 --> 00:41:19,067
Nice.

920
00:41:19,067 --> 00:41:20,417
So with that.

921
00:41:20,847 --> 00:41:22,167
Don't forget to hit our events.

922
00:41:22,167 --> 00:41:26,607
Tab 2026 is already filling up with
live shows, meet and greets and trips.

923
00:41:26,847 --> 00:41:30,537
Uh, we're gonna be doing Naughty
Nawlins in, uh, in, in the summertime.

924
00:41:30,537 --> 00:41:30,627
Mm-hmm.

925
00:41:30,867 --> 00:41:34,017
And now Sam, you just gave us
another one to scope out, so we're

926
00:41:34,017 --> 00:41:34,827
gonna have to bring that list.

927
00:41:34,827 --> 00:41:35,997
We're gonna be going to Florida.

928
00:41:36,057 --> 00:41:36,477
That's right.

929
00:41:37,187 --> 00:41:38,927
The last 10 days of October.

930
00:41:39,332 --> 00:41:41,192
Last 10 days of October, we got it down.

931
00:41:41,402 --> 00:41:42,062
We got it down.

932
00:41:42,272 --> 00:41:46,142
So, uh, with that, hopefully everybody
on the podcast is gonna hang out with us.

933
00:41:46,412 --> 00:41:49,622
Uh, and if they're out there, they may
be able to hang out with us in person.

934
00:41:49,682 --> 00:41:50,042
Yeah.

935
00:41:50,042 --> 00:41:50,252
Uh,

936
00:41:50,252 --> 00:41:51,722
so thank you all for listening.

937
00:41:51,722 --> 00:41:54,992
We appreciate you all and we
will see you guys next week.

938
00:41:55,022 --> 00:41:55,232
Bye.